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[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";123420419]I really think Obelisk is a strong card. Spear is kinda cool, but +2/+2 gets crazy. Elspeth Tokens are 3/3s, Nyxborn Shieldmate turns into Brimaz. Raise the alarm is a 2-mana 6/6.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but you have to either spend a ton of extra mana or tap down your guys in the early game when you want to be attacking. I don't think Elspeth is good in that shell either. She's really slow compared to literally everything else in the deck. That deck probably wants Ajani more than it wants Elspeth.

Not to mention you have 0 cards that enable either Fabled Hero or Vanguard's heroic to trigger, but perhaps that's just waiting for whatever card does it in Khans?

 

["God's Beard!"]

Yeah, but you have to either spend a ton of extra mana or tap down your guys in the early game when you want to be attacking. I don't think Elspeth is good in that shell either. She's really slow compared to literally everything else in the deck. That deck probably wants Ajani more than it wants Elspeth.

Not to mention you have 0 cards that enable either Fabled Hero or Vanguard's heroic to trigger, but perhaps that's just waiting for whatever card does it in Khans?

But Elspeth makes soldiers!

That's why I'm trying to find good vigilance creatures, so I can convoke after my attacks. And yeah, it's just a shell that I'm hoping stumbles into good cards of course.

Nyxborn Shieldmate and Glimpse the Sun God are both heroic enablers. I had last breath for fabled hero + ajani's pridemate but it was too cute. But in general, heroic isn't something I want to use in constructed, and vanguard has double white and vigilance which are the real reasons I chose him since he's great with convoke and nykthos.

Basically, vigilance is the reason why I'm trying to build a white convoke deck over green or whatever.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";123421328]But Elspeth makes soldiers!

That's why I'm trying to find good vigilance creatures, so I can convoke after my attacks. And yeah, it's just a shell that I'm hoping stumbles into good cards of course.

Nyxborn Shieldmate and Glimpse the Sun God are both heroic enablers. I had last breath for fabled hero + ajani's pridemate but it was too cute. But in general, heroic isn't something I want to use in constructed, and vanguard has double white and vigilance which are the real reasons I chose him since he's great with convoke and nykthos.

Basically, vigilance is the reason why I'm trying to build a white convoke deck over green or whatever.[/QUOTE]

Who cares if she makes Soldiers? A deck like that will either kill or be killed by the time you get Elspeth out.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Let's say I agree with you about Elspeth. How about this more aggressive version?

US Soldier Tokens

4 sotp
4 Akroan Crusader
4 raise the alarm
4 vanguard of brimaz
3 Akroan Hoplite
3 brimaz lion king
1 Heliod
1 Purphoros
1 Ephara

4 devouring light
3 Ephara's Enlightenment

3 Obelisk of Urd
2 Spirit Bonds

7 Plains
3 Temple of Enlightenment
3 Temple of Triumph
4 Battlefield Forge
2 Shivan Reef
4 Mana Confluence

This version more aggressively uses the token triggers on heroic creatures to keep bouncing Ephara's Enlightenment and generate card advantage.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";123423476]Let's say I agree with you about Elspeth. How about this more aggressive version?

US Soldier Tokens

4 sotp
4 Akroan Crusader
4 raise the alarm
4 vanguard of brimaz
3 Akroan Hoplite
3 brimaz lion king
1 Heliod
1 Purphoros
1 Ephara

4 devouring light
3 Ephara's Enlightenment

3 Obelisk of Urd
2 Spirit Bonds

7 Plains
3 Temple of Enlightenment
3 Temple of Triumph
4 Battlefield Forge
2 Shivan Reef
4 Mana Confluence

This version more aggressively uses the token triggers on heroic creatures to keep bouncing Ephara's Enlightenment and generate card advantage.[/QUOTE]

Running 6 temples and 4 Mana Confluence is kind of 2 philosophies at the same time. If the theme of the deck is ETB triggers, you might as well run Raise the Alarm, since its easier to get the two guys that way then trying to trigger Hoplite or Vanguard.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Running 6 temples and 4 Mana Confluence is kind of 2 philosophies at the same time. If the theme of the deck is ETB triggers, you might as well run Raise the Alarm, since its easier to get the two guys that way then trying to trigger Hoplite or Vanguard.

Raise the Alarm is in there...

And I don't have a choice on the temples, there's no other fixing in block+m15.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";123424430]Raise the Alarm is in there...

And I don't have a choice on the temples, there's no other fixing in block+m15.[/QUOTE]

Something will show up in Khans.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Something will show up in Khans.

Certainly, but for now it's temples until the Jeskai Khanlands come out.


edit: is it just me, or does Sarkhan's new art look like he's one of the Mardu horde? He's been red/black before, and trying to bring back dragons sounds pretty white to me, restoring order and all that.

Plus MaRo said there's 3-color walker potential, right?

What was the name of that Sarkhan art again?

 

[Angry Grimace]

Much better M15 draft this time, about to head into the finals with some kind of G/W thing. I got my opponent down to 1 while I was still at 20 with 4 guys on the board including the white paragon. Then he manages to rip 2 consecutive Hoarding Dragons and bring me down to 10. I'm getting a bit worried and then topdeck a Triplicate Spirits. That shit is ace, especially when I have that Paragon down.

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";123426221]Certainly, but for now it's temples until the Jeskai Khanlands come out.


edit: is it just me, or does Sarkhan's new art look like he's one of the Mardu horde? He's been red/black before, and trying to bring back dragons sounds pretty white to me, restoring order and all that.

Plus MaRo said there's 3-color walker potential, right?

What was the name of that Sarkhan art again?[/QUOTE]

This is actually a misquote. A guy asked if they'd do one again, and he said that its something they'd like to do again if they find the right time for it. This was reported by Reddit as "Maro says there's a three color walker!" He never indicated either way whether that was in Khans block or that there was ever any plan for it at all.

I really tend to doubt that Sarkhan would be three color. There's not a lot of design space in three color walkers because you're so limited in who can play them. A three color walker would need to be Jace, the Mind Sculptor but better to be a playable card. But they said Mardu has a grudge against Sarkhan because he use to be a member of the Mardu horde and left on bad terms.

"Sarkhan, the Dragon's Voice." If I were a betting man, I think we're going to see another colorless walker in the third set since Sarkhan's big thing is Ugin, the colorless Dragon planeswalker that he met on Zendikar (who is apparently dead now), but there's time travel.

 

["God's Beard!"]

This is actually a misquote. A guy asked if they'd do one again, and he said that its something they'd like to do again if they find the right time for it. This was reported by Reddit as "Maro says there's a three color walker!" He never indicated either way whether that was in Khans block or that there was ever any plan for it at all.

I really tend to doubt that Sarkhan would be three color. There's not a lot of design space in three color walkers because you're so limited in who can play them. A three color walker would need to be Jace, the Mind Sculptor but better to be a playable card. But they said Mardu has a grudge against Sarkhan because he use to be a member of the Mardu horde and left on bad terms.

"Sarkhan, the Dragon's Voice." If I were a betting man, I think we're going to see another colorless walker in the third set since Sarkhan's big thing is Ugin, the colorless Dragon planeswalker that he met on Zendikar (who is apparently dead now), but there's time travel.

Oh yeah, the Dragon's Voice. Cool, I thought he looked like the Mardu.

I dunno, I still believe in a 3-color walker. Probably something suitably ridiculous like this:

Sarkhan, the Dragon's Voice

+0 Put a 2/2 red Dragon creature token with flying onto the battlefield. It has "

: This creature gets +1/+0 until end of turn."
-3: Reveal the top card of your library and put it into your hand. Put loyalty counters on Sarkhan, the Dragon's Voice equal to that card's converted mana cost.
-3: Gain control of target creature. It gains Haste. Sacrifice it at the beginning of the next end step.
[6]


I like the idea of his first -3 because he's searching for dragons. "Yay, I found Stormbreath Dragon!" *up to 8 loyalty* "Aww, just an empty mountain." *down to 3 loyalty*

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";123428306]Oh yeah, the Dragon's Voice. Cool, I thought he looked like the Mardu.

I dunno, I still believe in a 3-color walker. Probably something suitably ridiculous like this:

Sarkhan, the Dragon's Voice

+0 Put a 2/2 red Dragon creature token with flying onto the battlefield. It has "

: This creature gets +1/+0 until end of turn."
-3: Reveal the top card of your library and put it into your hand. Put loyalty counters on Sarkhan, the Dragon's Voice equal to that card's converted mana cost.
-3: Gain control of target creature. It gains Haste. Sacrifice it at the beginning of the next end step.
[6]


I like the idea of his first -3 because he's searching for dragons. "Yay, I found Stormbreath Dragon!" *up to 8 loyalty* "Aww, just an empty mountain." *down to 3 loyalty*[/QUOTE]

It should be, "If the revealed card is a Dragon card, put 20 loyalty counters on Sarkhan Vol."

 

[Angry Grimace]

I was reading some old posts from when Vintage Masters was spoiled and it was kind of funny seeing the outrage at the lack of Wasteland due to the fact that it was going to cripple Vintage as an online format if you couldn't get 4 Wastelands for cheap. In reality, Wasteland is only "required" in MUD and Fish decks, and in all honesty, its not really required. Land destruction is not that good in Vintage.

 

["God's Beard!"]

What would a Khanland look like anyway? Everything seems snowy on Tarkir, so I like the idea of twisting around the old ice bridge.

Yurt of Jeskai
Yurt of Jeskai comes into play with a charge counter on it.

: Add

to your mana pool.

, remove a charge counter from Yurt of Jeskai: Add

or

to your mana pool.

Keeps the nomadic feeling of impermanence in mind.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";123433676]What would a Khanland look like anyway? Everything seems snowy on Tarkir, so I like the idea of twisting around the old ice bridge.

Yurt of Jeskai
Yurt of Jeskai comes into play with a charge counter on it.

: Add

to your mana pool.

, remove a charge counter from Yurt of Jeskai: Add

or

to your mana pool.

Keeps the nomadic feeling of impermanence in mind.[/QUOTE]

That would be unprintable unless it came into play tapped or removing the charge counter blew up the land. Its just better than a Mountain.

 

[ElyrionX]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";123433676]What would a Khanland look like anyway? Everything seems snowy on Tarkir, so I like the idea of twisting around the old ice bridge.

Yurt of Jeskai
Yurt of Jeskai comes into play with a charge counter on it.

: Add

to your mana pool.

, remove a charge counter from Yurt of Jeskai: Add

or

to your mana pool.

Keeps the nomadic feeling of impermanence in mind.[/QUOTE]

I am hoping it looks like this:

Pay 1 life, Sacrifice Arid Mesa: Search your library for a Mountain or Plains card and put it onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.

Sacrificing a land feels nomadic enough to me.

 

["God's Beard!"]

That would be unprintable unless it came into play tapped or removing the charge counter blew up the land. Its just better than a Mountain.

How about River of Tears style?

Yurt of Jeskai

: Add

to your mana pool. If you played Yurt of Jeskai or another Yurt this turn, add

or

to your mana pool instead.

 

[acheron_xl]

I'm just anticipating wedge versions of the Shard lands from SoA.

 

[OnPoint]

I was reading some old posts from when Vintage Masters was spoiled and it was kind of funny seeing the outrage at the lack of Wasteland due to the fact that it was going to cripple Vintage as an online format if you couldn't get 4 Wastelands for cheap. In reality, Wasteland is only "required" in MUD and Fish decks, and in all honesty, its not really required. Land destruction is not that good in Vintage.

Wastelands are big in Legacy though. So they do need a reprint.

 

[ElyrionX]

Generally speaking, if Khans will be released in late September, around when can we expect the set to be fully spoiled?

I am about 1/3 of the way through assembling my UWR Control deck for Modern and even if fetches are not reprinted, I was hoping for a reprint of cards like Spell Snare, Electrolyze, Lightning Helix or Wrath just to save a few bucks.

 

[f0rk]

Generally speaking, if Khans will be released in late September, around when can we expect the set to be fully spoiled?

I am about 1/3 of the way through assembling my UWR Control deck for Modern and even if fetches are not reprinted, I was hoping for a reprint of cards like Spell Snare, Electrolyze, Lightning Helix or Wrath just to save a few bucks.

The full spoiler will be done a week before the prerelease. I wouldn't expect any of those reprints except maybe a wrath.

 

[Crocodile]

Recalling the design of Zoetic Cavern and knowing Morph is a major mechanic in the next set I wouldn't be surprised if the new dual lands were morph lands that ETB in land mode. Then again I think I remember them saying the Khans dual lands would be aggo friendly (i.e. probably don't always ETB) or did I remember that wrong?

Generally speaking, if Khans will be released in late September, around when can we expect the set to be fully spoiled?

I am about 1/3 of the way through assembling my UWR Control deck for Modern and even if fetches are not reprinted, I was hoping for a reprint of cards like Spell Snare, Electrolyze, Lightning Helix or Wrath just to save a few bucks.

Khans releases on 9/26 so the latest we should expect the full spoiler is 9/12 (barring any major leaks or anything of the sort)

 

[acheron_xl]

Yurt of Jeskai
Land
Yurt of Jeskai can't be played face-up.

: Add

,

or

to your mana pool.
Morph

,

, or

That's pretty shitty. But kinda neat, nonetheless.

Yurt of Jeskai
Land

: Add

,

or

to your mana pool.
If Yurt of Jeskai is tapped for mana, if you don't control a face-down creature, add that much colorless mana to your mana pool instead.

That one's actually playable. Maybe.

 

[SigmasonicX]

... Guys, Jeskai is URW, there's no black.

Anyway, in terms of land, I expect that like in Shards, there will be common or uncommon lands that enter the battlefield tapped but tap for all 3 colors of a wedge. At rare, we're probably going to get dual lands that can enter the battlefield untapped if a condition is met, probably allies only.

 

[bigkrev]

Guys, the lands are going to be uncommon and will be like the Savage Lands cycle from Alara. It makes sense to print them now and they can use them till the end of time in products like Commander and Duel Decks. Stop overthinking this.

There will be a rare cycle somewhere in the block of allied colored lands to go with the Painlands from M15. That's what is possibly interesting. Would not be surprised to see the Fastlands reprinted, as they could use a reprinting for Modern and are powerful.

 

[kirblar]

Guys, the lands are going to be uncommon and will be like the Savage Lands cycle from Alara. It makes sense to print them now and they can use them till the end of time in products like Commander and Duel Decks. Stop overthinking this.

There will be a rare cycle somewhere in the block of allied colored lands to go with the Painlands from M15. That's what is possibly interesting. Would not be surprised to see the Fastlands reprinted, as they could use a reprinting for Modern and are powerful.

Region-specific names. Enemy fastlands later in the block would be nice tho.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Region-specific names. Enemy fastlands later in the block would be nice tho.

I feel like fastlands are a thing that they could just hold back on and do as a full set of 10.

 

[bigkrev]

Fastlands were just a guess. There will be a 5 card cycle of allied dual lands at rare somewhere in the block

 

[kirblar]

Fastlands were just a guess. There will be a 5 card cycle of allied dual lands at rare somewhere in the block

They'll be upfront. It's why the enemy painlands are in the core set.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Guys, the lands are going to be uncommon and will be like the Savage Lands cycle from Alara. It makes sense to print them now and they can use them till the end of time in products like Commander and Duel Decks. Stop overthinking this.

There will be a rare cycle somewhere in the block of allied colored lands to go with the Painlands from M15. That's what is possibly interesting. Would not be surprised to see the Fastlands reprinted, as they could use a reprinting for Modern and are powerful.

There will be an untapped dual of some kind. The format would be insanely slow if the only fast duals were Mana Confluence and pain lands for certain color combos.

 

[SigmasonicX]

MaRo finally addresses the possibility of "tap creature dealt combat damage, it doesn't untap next turn" as a blue combat ability

gtdoc4 said: Am I correct that hypothetically the snakefolk mechanic would make a good blue creature keyword?

Blue is the color that would have it. I’m not sure it’s something we want on a lot of creatures.

I don't see what makes it that different from deathtouch, but at least he finally commented on it.

 

[The Technomancer]

MaRo finally addresses the possibility of "tap creature dealt combat damage, it doesn't untap next turn" as a blue combat ability


I don't see what makes it that different from deathtouch, but at least he finally commented on it.

If I had to guess I'd say maybe concerns about how it interacts with all of blue's other tempo control? I've always liked the idea as well, but I can conceive of concerns with it

 

[Angry Grimace]

The blue keyword should be Cumulative Upkeep because fuck blue.

 

[acheron_xl]

The blue keyword should be Cumulative Upkeep because fuck blue.

I''m down with that. Cumulative upkeep is rad.

 

[OnPoint]

The blue keyword should be Cumulative Upkeep because fuck blue.

Retweet /thisishowIpost

 

[aidan]

The blue keyword should be Cumulative Upkeep because fuck blue.

Get this man on both the design and development team for all future sets.

 

[Haly]

It would slow down the pace too much. Considering how creature focused Standard is these days, getting detained every time you dealt combat damage might as well double the length of games.

 

[Firemind]

I just thought up some tech: Military Intelligence. Why not combine it with mono red aggro? Seems sweet with Goblin Rabblemaster. Lets you never run out of gas. Plus it gives me a reason to play Turn // Burn, which has been fantastic in playtesting.

 

[SigmasonicX]

MaRo's reply

sigmasonicx said: You said you don't think the snakefolk ability wouldn't make for a good blue combat ability because you aren't sure you want it on a lot of creatures, but what makes it different from deathtouch in that regard?

Deathtouch is an easier ability to understand.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I just thought up some tech: Military Intelligence.

Two words combined that can't make sense.

 

[Firemind]

Are you dissing the card or what?

No, really, it's no Bident of Thassa, but it costs half as much mana and is easily splashable with the current mana available.

Wouldn't surprise me if it ended up in a white tokens deck or something.

 

[kirblar]

Are you dissing the card or what?

No, really, it's no Bident of Thassa, but it costs half as much mana and is easily splashable with the current mana available.

Wouldn't surprise me if it ended up in a white tokens deck or something.

I don't think the Mana's there for an allied-color deck using it. Mono-U or G/U, R/U.

 

[ThLunarian]

I don't think the Mana's there for an allied-color deck using it. Mono-U or G/U, R/U.

I remember back when U/G Madness was dominating with 10 forest, 10 island, and 4 Yavimaya Coast. Have things changed that much? I'd have to imagine that access to Shocklands, Temples, and Mana Confluence would be more than enough to make allied aggro work fine

 

[kirblar]

I remember back when U/G Madness was dominating with 10 forest, 10 island, and 4 Yavimaya Coast. Have things changed that much? I'd have to imagine that access to Shocklands, Temples, and Mana Confluence would be more than enough to make allied aggro work fine

It also featured a ton of busted cards, lol.

 

[OnPoint]

Are you dissing the card or what?.

It's famously referred to as an oxymoron

 

[bigkrev]

I remember back when U/G Madness was dominating with 10 forest, 10 island, and 4 Yavimaya Coast. Have things changed that much? I'd have to imagine that access to Shocklands, Temples, and Mana Confluence would be more than enough to make allied aggro work fine

Deck also had Careful Study and Deep Analysis, 2 cheap and insane card draw spells

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Madness is like Storm. It's either completely busted or completely useless.

 

[Yeef]

Are you dissing the card or what?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-oU2xlViRQ#t=2m11s

 

[Firemind]

I knew that.

Spoiler

Hangar 18 is one of my favourite Megadeth songs too. For shame.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Video of the Comic Con panel (45 minutes)

 

[Lucario]

I remember back when U/G Madness was dominating with 10 forest, 10 island, and 4 Yavimaya Coast. Have things changed that much? I'd have to imagine that access to Shocklands, Temples, and Mana Confluence would be more than enough to make allied aggro work fine

Even at the time, people realized that U/G madness had shitty mana. Some people even ran Tarnished Citadel.

http://www.channelfireball.com/arti...-7-worst-decks-that-have-ever-won-a-pro-tour/ (#7)

Bonus: a madness deck with even worse mana.

http://bmkgaming.com/throwback-thursday-worst-deck/