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Magic: The Gathering |OT3| Enchantment Under the Siege
- Thread starter The Technomancer
- Start date
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This. Stone Rain is too powerful, they won't ever be reprinting Vindicate for standard.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Stone Rain isn't too powerful, its just an annoying un-fun card. I mean, its in Modern and nobody plays it. But people would play it in Limited if they were reprinting it and it would annoy the shit out of everyone.
Vindicate might get printed in like a Duel Deck or something, but there's not going to be a Standard-legal reprint of Vindicate unless Development at WOTC decides to take up black tar heroin throughout the entirety of set design. Its a bullshit busted card.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";128122667]Jace is the worst planeswalker right now and there's only one left to be spoiled lol.[/QUOTE]
FYI, there isn't. The only two Planeswalkers in Khans are Sorin and Sarkhan.
SigmasonicX
Member
I thought See the Unwritten was a really neat card, so it sucks to see so many people shitting on it. In any case, it's a lot more powerful in a gold set than Summoning Trap was in Zendikar, since it gets around color restrictions, which could justify the bump up of the effect to mythic.
The Ascendencies are OK, neither of them are as exciting as Temur Ascendency.
Utter End is pretty good, and I like the flavor. I'm kind of surprised that people are expecting this to see play, since I was under the assumption that 4+ mana single-target destruction spells were automatically considered junk by tournament players. I'm not sure why people are upset that Vindicate isn't getting reprinted; not only is 3-mana land destruction known to not appear in Standard again, but the flavor never really made sense anyway. The closest it came to making sense is the version with Sorin on it, where he says that mortals are like dust to him, and he is vindicated when he turns a guy to dust.
Anafenza is pretty weird, in that her card was very obviously given an ability that doesn't make much flavor sense in order to fill a development need. It feels very clumsy. In any case, a 3 mana 4/4 that puts +1/+1 counters on your creatures isn't bad.
The Ascendencies are OK, neither of them are as exciting as Temur Ascendency.
Utter End is pretty good, and I like the flavor. I'm kind of surprised that people are expecting this to see play, since I was under the assumption that 4+ mana single-target destruction spells were automatically considered junk by tournament players. I'm not sure why people are upset that Vindicate isn't getting reprinted; not only is 3-mana land destruction known to not appear in Standard again, but the flavor never really made sense anyway. The closest it came to making sense is the version with Sorin on it, where he says that mortals are like dust to him, and he is vindicated when he turns a guy to dust.
Anafenza is pretty weird, in that her card was very obviously given an ability that doesn't make much flavor sense in order to fill a development need. It feels very clumsy. In any case, a 3 mana 4/4 that puts +1/+1 counters on your creatures isn't bad.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Fine, Grimace, I'll cut the Riders :-(
Orzhov Control
Spells(21):
Creatures(7):
Planeswalkers(6):
Land(26):
Sideboard(15):
:-o
Orzhov Control
Spells(21):
- 4 Thoughtseize
- 2 Bile Blight
- 2 Last Breath
- 3 Banishing Light
- 2 Hero's Downfall
- 2 Silence the Believers
- 2 Utter End
- 4 End Hostilities
Creatures(7):
- 4 Nyx-Fleece Ram
- 3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
Planeswalkers(6):
- 3 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
- 2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
- 1 Liliana Vess
Land(26):
- 1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
- 4 Caves of Koilos
- 4 Temple of Silence
- 4 Temple of Deceit
- 4 Temple of Enlightenment
- 5 Swamp
- 4 Plains
Sideboard(15):
- 4 Negate
- 2 Pharika's Cure
- 2 Read the Bones
- 1 Silence the Believers
- 4 Drown in Sorrow
- 2 Stain the Mind
:-o
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";128155271]Fine, Grimace, I'll cut the Riders :-(
Orzhov Control
Spells(21):
Creatures(7):
Planeswalkers(6):
Land(26):
Sideboard(15):
:-o[/QUOTE]
I think Sorin is mostly good in the same type of deck that Lord of Innistrad is good in in Modern - a B/W tokens deck. Whether that kind of deck actually exists in Khans remains to be seen. He does play well with Brimaz, but I'm not entirely certain that interaction alone is enough to make him an auto include. But I think the way you're intended to play this Sorin is mostly ticking him up to drop the ult; most PW are typically evaluated on their +1/-X ability, but I think some of the design space in both Sarkhan and Sorin's are relevant ultimates.
I think the P/W count was lowered because of Garruk being in M15. Maro said they intentionally keep the number of Planeswalker cards in Standard the same over time.
Orzhov Control
Spells(21):
- 4 Thoughtseize
- 2 Bile Blight
- 2 Last Breath
- 3 Banishing Light
- 2 Hero's Downfall
- 2 Silence the Believers
- 2 Utter End
- 4 End Hostilities
Creatures(7):
- 4 Nyx-Fleece Ram
- 3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
Planeswalkers(6):
- 3 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
- 2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
- 1 Liliana Vess
Land(26):
- 1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
- 4 Caves of Koilos
- 4 Temple of Silence
- 4 Temple of Deceit
- 4 Temple of Enlightenment
- 5 Swamp
- 4 Plains
Sideboard(15):
- 4 Negate
- 2 Pharika's Cure
- 2 Read the Bones
- 1 Silence the Believers
- 4 Drown in Sorrow
- 2 Stain the Mind
:-o[/QUOTE]
I think Sorin is mostly good in the same type of deck that Lord of Innistrad is good in in Modern - a B/W tokens deck. Whether that kind of deck actually exists in Khans remains to be seen. He does play well with Brimaz, but I'm not entirely certain that interaction alone is enough to make him an auto include. But I think the way you're intended to play this Sorin is mostly ticking him up to drop the ult; most PW are typically evaluated on their +1/-X ability, but I think some of the design space in both Sarkhan and Sorin's are relevant ultimates.
I think the P/W count was lowered because of Garruk being in M15. Maro said they intentionally keep the number of Planeswalker cards in Standard the same over time.
SigmasonicX
Member
You mean in this set? It's always been the case that if there are two large sets in a block, then there will be two planeswalkers in each large set and one in the small set.
I think they just want to do PWs 2-1-2 instead of 3-1-1 since the third set is big.
I'm guessing since Sarkhan is filling the "plane native" slot we might not get a totally new PW this block, except maybe for Ugin depending on how he is represented. I'd like to see Tezzeret in Fates Reforged as the harbinger for Bolas.
Yup. It's either 2-1-2- or 3-1-1, depending on block structure. New block structure will end up being 3-1, 3-1.
Because those events are about media coverage/sucking up to journalists, not about the players. (Silly kids, you thought PAX was for you?)
Magic has outgrown Gencon
I assume they just decided that focusing on DnD there is a bigger priority for that particular crowd.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
If Bolas comes back, I'd expect him to be U/B or R/B because a three-color walker is pretty fucking narrow.
SigmasonicX
Member
The way it is now is that a block and the core set each had five or so planeswalkers, making for ten or so planeswalkers over a period of four sets. The four sets will later be two blocks, but I expect that they'll still want the same number of planeswalkers, so it'll probably be 3-2, 3-2. That said, I expect that they will start doing planeswalker reprints in expert expansions.
Keep in mind there's also going to be some sort of starter product added in addition to the rotating sets.
SigmasonicX
Member
They haven't said much about it, but MaRo did mention that the intention is for the cards in the starter products to be Standard legal but for none of the cards to be tournament worthy. That plus the complexity of planeswalkers makes me imagine that there won't be any planeswalkers in the starter products.
It depends on if they use the spot to reprint lands, I think. I don't expect new cards at all, but there could be some good "basic" cards in there.
SigmasonicX
Member
Reprinting dual lands seems to go against the implied goal of making the starter products something that invested players don't have to worry about at all. I would imagine that if dual lands are included at all, they will just be the guildgates or some such.
I meant stone rain is too powerful for current standard and limited applications.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I'm super biased because he makes flying tokens and it's my favorite character. But yeah, I thought about a build with more cheap creatures, maybe more towards orzhov aggro with soldiers of the pantheon etc.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I don't think Stone Rain is too powerful for Standard at all because nobody would run a card that narrow. Vindicate is overpowered because it blows up lands and everything else.
GregLombardi
Member
If only it were instant...
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Stone Rain actually sucks in every format, its just not a fun card.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";128162768]I'm super biased because he makes flying tokens and it's my favorite character. But yeah, I thought about a build with more cheap creatures, maybe more towards orzhov aggro with soldiers of the pantheon etc.[/QUOTE]
I think the difference between this Sorin and LOI is that this one isn't actually designed to be a token maker. The token ability only exists so that you can play him with an empty board if you really have no other options. Tick him up and ult out.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";128162768]I'm super biased because he makes flying tokens and it's my favorite character. But yeah, I thought about a build with more cheap creatures, maybe more towards orzhov aggro with soldiers of the pantheon etc.[/QUOTE]
I think the difference between this Sorin and LOI is that this one isn't actually designed to be a token maker. The token ability only exists so that you can play him with an empty board if you really have no other options. Tick him up and ult out.
How is destroying ANY land too narrow?
Standard has a comparatively narrow land pool.
ThLunarian
Member
So what creatures would go into a Modern Temur Ascendancy shell?
Auto-includes are Birds of Paradise and Noble Hierarch, but beyond that there are some options.
Tarmogoyf is a maybe, but you're not doing much graveyard-filling on your own so I'm not positive on it.
Vexing Devil seems real good here.
Imaginary Pet seems interesting.
Broodmate Dragon is amazing with an Ascendancy out.
I wonder if you just go 5 color with Mana Confluences and/or City of Brass?
Auto-includes are Birds of Paradise and Noble Hierarch, but beyond that there are some options.
Tarmogoyf is a maybe, but you're not doing much graveyard-filling on your own so I'm not positive on it.
Vexing Devil seems real good here.
Imaginary Pet seems interesting.
Broodmate Dragon is amazing with an Ascendancy out.
I wonder if you just go 5 color with Mana Confluences and/or City of Brass?
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
It doesn't do anything other than destroy a land at the cost of taking all of 3 mana on a turn, which isn't a terribly big deal and in Modern its much easier to hose with Blood Moon.
SigmasonicX
Member
I just had a thought. "Louie" (probably Dragons of Tarkir) probably won't have a wedge theme, but I'm guessing it will have five legendary wedge colored dragons named after the clans (or rather, the source of the clan names). The flavor of morph on Tarkir is that it's dragon magic, so I'll guess even further that these legendary dragons will have morph.
Such as:
Jeskai, Cunning Incarnate - 4RUW
Legendary Creature - Dragon
Flying
You may cast cards exiled by Jeskai and you may spend mana as though it were mana of any color to cast them.
Morph - RUW, Exile a spell you control
When Jeskai is turned face up, exile target spell.
You may turn Jeskai face down at any time.
6/6
EDIT: I didn't make this connection until now
EDIT: Changed Jeskai to what I feel is a more interesting version.
Such as:
Jeskai, Cunning Incarnate - 4RUW
Legendary Creature - Dragon
Flying
You may cast cards exiled by Jeskai and you may spend mana as though it were mana of any color to cast them.
Morph - RUW, Exile a spell you control
When Jeskai is turned face up, exile target spell.
You may turn Jeskai face down at any time.
6/6
EDIT: I didn't make this connection until now
EDIT: Changed Jeskai to what I feel is a more interesting version.
Sir Griffith
Member
First time in this thread
Going to a booster draft this Friday. Haven't played MTG since Mirrodin block. I hope the shop I'm going to is patient
Going to a booster draft this Friday. Haven't played MTG since Mirrodin block. I hope the shop I'm going to is patient
SigmasonicX
Member
First time in this thread
Going to a booster draft this Friday. Haven't played MTG since Mirrodin block. I hope the shop I'm going to is patient
That would be a core set draft, most likely, so I'm sure it won't be too bad. Just to make sure, you're up to date on rule changes and new card types, right?
You don't think going turn one mana dork into turn two stone rain isn't a big deal?
And who mentioned modern? I specifically said standard and limited.
Sir Griffith
Member
I had to sit down with a friend about WTF a planeswalker was, but other than that I'm pretty familiar with the card types. Were there any major rule changes since the Mirrodin block?
Mana burn is gone, mana pools empty at the end of each step and each phase, legendary permanents only care about what it's controller controls, not everyone (i.e. if I have an Avacyn and you have an Avacyn, that's fine, but if I have 2 Avacyns I have to get rid of one). Combat damage no longer uses the stack.
I think that's all the major stuff. Any other rules changes are probably minor enough that they'll never come up.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Not really. Stone Rain is not too good for Standard constructed at all because 1 land for 3 mana is a bad choice vs. playing basically anything else at 3 mana. Its just not a fun or interesting card and they don't want to encourage people to play with that kind of effect much.
Stone Rain is pretty bad in limited actually - 99% of the time in limited your choices of land to destroy are all basics so you get very little real value from it. You set your opponent back like one turn but also set yourself back one turn by spending sorcery speed mana on Stone Rain. Its just not fun to play against (or with, really).
SigmasonicX
Member
Major things:
1. Terminology changes. Permanents are "on the battlefield" instead of being "in play", and "enter the battlefield" instead of "come into play". Spells are "cast" and abilities are "activated" instead of being "played" (land are still played, and "cast" is a subset of "play"). Cards are "exiled" instead of "removed from the game".
2. Mana burn is gone. Unspent mana just goes to waste now, instead of dealing damage to you.
3. Combat damage no longer uses the stack, so you can't have a Mogg Fanatic lethally block a 2/1 creature and still sacrifice it to deal 1 damage to something else. It has to be one or the other.
And later on, they changed it so that legendary permanents only look at your side of the board, so both players can have Akroma out. If you cast Akroma again, then you can now choose which one to sacrifice and which one to keep, as long as you just have one on the battlefield in the end.
Sir Griffith
Member
Cool, thanks guys!
I also learned that they gave names to certain abilities, like "Attacking doesn't cause creature to tap" is now vigilance, and then "whenever creature deals damage, you gain that much life" is lifelink, etc.
I really want to make a deck around Sidisi, but I feel she'll be most optimal in an aggro deck and they aren't exactly my favorite to run (unless they have silly as fuck synergy like BG zombies).
Duskmantle Seer was probably my favorite card from RTR block and he really only worked in aggro.
Maybe a mid-rangey graveyard focused deck will be possible.
Duskmantle Seer was probably my favorite card from RTR block and he really only worked in aggro.
Maybe a mid-rangey graveyard focused deck will be possible.
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
Keywords get always get reminder text unless they can't fit it into the text box now so you don't have to worry much anything you don't recognize.
Oh yeah, there are also now ability words, which are italicized and don't have any rules baggage associated with them - they just help you recognize similar abilities.
SigmasonicX
Member
This was put on Wizard's website, and three of the intro pack rares can be seen in front, though the text is too small to be that clear. That said, it appears that they are:
Rakshasa Vizier - 2BGU
Creature - Cat Demon
Whenever one or more cards are put into exile from your graveyard, put that many +1/+1 counters on Rakshasa Vizier.
4/4
Ankle Shanker - 2RWB
Creature - Goblin Berserker
Haste
Whenever Ankle Shanker attacks, creatures you control gain first strike and deathtouch until end of turn.
3/3
Avalanche Tusker - 2GUR
Creature - Elephant Warrior
Whenever Avalanche Tusker attacks, target creature defending player controls blocks it this combat if able.
4/4
The first two seem pretty good, while the last seems pretty bad.
EDIT: Is it just me, or is that image doing really weird things with the text in this post?
acheron_xl
Member
4/4 with Provoke for 5 is a fine chaff uncommon. A pretty shitty rare though.
acheron_xl
Member
I'm sure part of this has to do with the fetches sucking up a lot of the 'power' they are allowed to put in a set.
I've always had a soft spot for the Jeskai color combination so I'll go with them for at least one event. To make any actual competitive decisions we'll need to see all the rares since there is the first set where you can get one of 8 different promos per pack.
SigmasonicX
Member
So far, I'm most interested in Temur. If you're worried about the intro pack rare, remember that you now get one of any eight rares from a clan instead of just the intro pack rare.
I don't know how I missed that news but I did.
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