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[Firemind]

Those are playability concessions, all my creatures are flyers so earthquake is amazing and Boros Charm is so important in EDH it's not even funny. Being able to be fetched with by Sunforger to protect from wraths, Bane of Progress, Armageddon, Child of Alara,... Elspeths and Assemble are not just draw engines but win conditions when I pillowfort up.
Lightning Helix is to have some direct damage for PWs. I took Armageddon out again because it wasn't fun.



She's the commander.

*shrug* creatures, artifacts and to a lesser extent enchantments get blown up so many times during the course of a game that i question whether a one-time deal like boros charm will matter. don't even mention planeswalkers as you're lucky if they stick in play for multiple turns.

my edh deckbuilding philosophy is when you're not playing blue, you shouldn't play too many reactionary cards. reverberate and wild ricochet are cute but you will still lose to the blue and even the black/green decks in terms of card advantage. you want cards that are proactive or actively disrupt your opponent's plan depending on your play group. marshal's anthem, scroll rack (with land tax), insurrection, blood moon, crackdown, rest in peace for graveyard hate and triggers like gravepact, shattering pulse for value, and so on.

as a boros themed edh deck, it gets a 6/10.

Now I'm curious what the top five are generally considered to be. I'm guessing:

it's original ravnica block, time spiral block, 3x innistrad, 2x alara 1x conflux, your random favourite draft format. in that order.

 

[y2dvd]

Docent of Perfection
Cute

I think this is more than cute. 5/4 flying for 5 is pretty respectable already. Then you throw in the ability to pump out tokens on either side. Then you have a few playable wizards to get you to 3 quickly:

Harbinger of the Tides
Jace, Vryn
Jori English, Ruin Driver
Mana Scribe
Reflector Mage
Sidisi Faithful
Silimgur Sorcerer
Storm chaser Mage

I can see DoP seeing constructed play. In fact, I will expect to see it see play.

 

[Santiako]

Source

Spoiler

Cast an Eldrazi Creature spell with CMC 7+, draw two cards

They are obviously the workers. Look at the top of the turned-over side. What do you see?

Based on that uncommon, I'm guessing XG (probably U) emerge is one of the draft archetypes they're going for?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

*shrug* creatures, artifacts and to a lesser extent enchantments get blown up so many times during the course of a game that i question whether a one-time deal like boros charm will matter. don't even mention planeswalkers as you're lucky if they stick in play for multiple turns.

my edh deckbuilding philosophy is when you're not playing blue, you shouldn't play too many reactionary cards. reverberate and wild ricochet are cute but you will still lose to the blue and even the black/green decks in terms of card advantage. you want cards that are proactive or actively disrupt your opponent's plan depending on your play group. marshal's anthem, scroll rack (with land tax), insurrection, blood moon, crackdown, rest in peace for graveyard hate and triggers like gravepact, shattering pulse for value, and so on.

as a boros themed edh deck, it gets a 6/10.

You're massively undervaluing Boros Charm and indestructible is not the only relevant mode. If you have a sunforger out you're preventing opponents from wrathing the board because they know it's there.
Double strike on an opponents commander or yours can kill a player and the 4 damage can clean up a PW once again.
Even though PWs don't often live for a turn the value players get if they do is considerable and if you take out anything that can deal with them no one possibly can.

I don't want to play Angelfire tbh. Insurrection is a card I just dislike in the way of a "oh you played to the board too much, guess I win" way and Rest in Peace is too often a card that let's a player outright not play until they find their answer, I only play it in Zur and only bring it out if my opponent brought a degenerate deck himself.

Didn't know Crackdown might have to get that for Zur alone. Reverberate should be a ricochet trap and all of them synergise well with sunforger.

You're also right on scroll rack and blood moon just haven't found it in my budget yet. I'm currently building other EDH decks so prioritizing cards I can use in multiple decks at once and even for that I recently had to get a new phone so had to cut back. Wanted my Scion deck complete already instead

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Delver 3.0 has cute synergy with Snapcaster Mage.

 

[twobear]

Source

Spoiler

Cast an Eldrazi Creature spell with CMC 7+, draw two cards

This art though, serving OotG 2.0. Messy.

 

[A Serious Man]

I think this is more than cute. 5/4 flying for 5 is pretty respectable already. Then you throw in the ability to pump out tokens on either side. Then you have a few playable wizards to get you to 3 quickly:

Harbinger of the Tides
Jace, Vryn
Jori English, Ruin Driver
Mana Scribe
Reflector Mage
Sidisi Faithful
Silimgur Sorcerer
Storm chaser Mage

I can see DoP seeing constructed play. In fact, I will expect to see it see play.

Where? It's too expensive for Modern or Legacy and if Monastery Mentor never broke into Standard, I'm not sure how this would. I like the card and it's now my dream to draft this and nothing but spells but I don't see it doing much in constructed.

 

[Firemind]

You're massively undervaluing Boros Charm and indestructible is not the only relevant mode. If you have a sunforger out you're preventing opponents from wrathing the board because they know it's there.

the good wraths don't destroy anyway. i'm not saying it doesn't have any merit; my point is it's quite situational especially since you can already rebuy avacyn. i'd rather add more bodies and equipment/anthems for a faster clock. jor kadeen knows what's up in team boros.

 

[Haines]

I like what this new set looks to be adding.to soi.

Excited to see what the spoilers bring us. I like that soi is kind of a pay off card set. Feels like design really wanted the full block to be the real and full vision. We will see soon enough.

 

[DrArchon]

Delver 3.0 looks like the kind of card I'd be willing to build a deck around. Yeah, yeah "dies to removal" and 5 mana, but enough counterspells should be able to help keep him on the board and get him flipped. Making a small army of 3/2 fliers is no joke, and there's a lot of decent wizards in standard.

He's probably too slow for real competitive play, but I could be wrong. I just like the idea of flipping him and suddenly having 10+ flying power on the board.

 

[El Topo]

Now I'm curious what the top five are generally considered to be.

Triple Homelands.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

He may cost five mana, but you'll have to have 7/8 mana available if you want him to be reliable. You need to be able to protect him the turn you play him; you can't just run him out on five mana and cross your fingers.

 

[Nikodemos]

Did they just put a sex joke on a card?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

the good wraths don't destroy anyway. i'm not saying it doesn't have any merit; my point is it's quite situational especially since you can already rebuy avacyn. i'd rather add more bodies and equipment/anthems for a faster clock. jor kadeen knows what's up in team boros.

You just praised Armageddon not that long ago, wrath of god and damnation both are being played, Bane of Progress, Vandalblast, Austere Command, Decree of Pain,... Half a dozen I forget.
Avacyn protects my creatures neither my lands nor enchantments and artifacts and at 5+2n CMC. She even has to die first so I can recast her.
My deck isn't Boros Beatdown it's Boros Big Beats.

I'll concede many things in my deck being suboptimal but it isn't Boros Charm I'd put that in every single Boros deck.

 

[Xis]

Rise and Innistrad are the real consistent top 2, then it starts to break up a bit more. Some of what I would say are pretty common choices, in approximate order of popularity: KTK x3, M13 x3, MMA x3, TPF, RGD, CHK x3, SHM x3, MD5, DGR, IPA.

Personally, I would happily draft anything on this list again and again basically forever; I wouldn't even consider most other coresets (especially M12), Lorwyn, Zendikar (unless money drafting on MODO), Coldsnap, Onslaught, anything older than IPA, and of course AVR (*spit* *hiss*).

Not attacking, genuinely curious:

I though SHMx3 wasn't well received because it was considered to be too bomb-heavy? (Or maybe that's just my personal experience, ran into too many Oona, Queen of the Fae).
Is DGR = Dragon's Maze / Gatecrash / Return to Ravnica? I thought this was unpopular due to the crumminess of Dragon's Maze?
Do you dislike Lorwyn / Onslaught due to the linear tribal strategies?

I ask because I have a bunch of Lorwyn / Shadowmoor block cards bindered and I've been trying figure out what to do with them; I want to build a cube but I'm not sure if a full-block cube or a SHM or SHM/EVE draft sim would work better. (I really, really liked the look of both miniblocks).

 

[charlequin]

I though SHMx3 wasn't well received because it was considered to be too bomb-heavy? (Or maybe that's just my personal experience, ran into too many Oona, Queen of the Fae).

Everything below a certain point on that list has some major problem in addition to the positives, there's really only a few completely beloved formats.

The downside of SHM is it's moderately bomb-heavy, the upside is that for experienced drafters there's a ton of flexibility in what types of decks you draft and a lot of ability to try out different different weird or unusual archetypes (including full monocolor) due to the way hybrid affects your options.

Is DGR = Dragon's Maze / Gatecrash / Return to Ravnica? I thought this was unpopular due to the crumminess of Dragon's Maze?

Dragon's Maze is butts but much more so for constructed than Limited, and this is the only iteration of RTR block where you get all ten guilds, which always leads to some interesting options draftwise.

Do you dislike Lorwyn / Onslaught due to the linear tribal strategies?

I actually dislike the two for two totally different reasons. Lorwyn is because of its NWO-summoning gameplay of staring across the table for ten minutes each turn trying to avoid blowing yourself out by missing one piece of the 27 on-board tricks, effects and synergies in play. Onslaught is because of the hideous color imbalance that makes everything but black and red second-class citizens and, oddly enough, the fact that the tribes actually don't matter enough in draft.

 

[Angry Grimace]

That Rare Delver of Secrets dude is hilarious. Flavor win even if its not great in actual play (but its a 5/4 flying, its not that bad), and having a random Young Pyro effect is pretty neat.

 

[charlequin]

 

[Angry Grimace]

I assume the bottom 5 are the Intro Pack rares

Also, Take Inventory really is Accumulated Knowledge, but without using every graveyard and not an instant so way worse

 

[pelicansurf]

Cards seem expensive, but good.

 

[charlequin]

Also, Take Inventory really is Accumulated Knowledge, but without using every graveyard

And sorcery speed.

 

[y2dvd]

Where? It's too expensive for Modern or Legacy and if Monastery Mentor never broke into Standard, I'm not sure how this would. I like the card and it's now my dream to draft this and nothing but spells but I don't see it doing much in constructed.

Mono U Prison baby! Imagine all the tokens you'll be able to pump out, Part the Waterveil, fly over ftw.

 

[ultron87]

God I love all the transform card flavor.

The human head on the Anglerfish to lure people though!

 

[Angry Grimace]

...that's disappointing. All they revealed was draft uncommons and intro pack rares

 

[divisionbyzorro]

God I love all the transform card flavor.

The human head on the Anglerfish to lure people though!

Gurmag Angler does the same thing.

 

[El Topo]

I like Niblis of Frost, but I feel like they could have pushed it a little bit more.

 

[A Serious Man]

This going to be a slow limited format isn't it?

 

[DrArchon]

Intro pack rares are about what I expected. The blue one looks like the best out of all of them.

I wonder how many straight up colorless creatures are gonna be in this set. I wouldn't want too many (at least there's no Devoid again) but there has to be enough for Grizzled Angler to be good in limited, right?

 

[Angry Grimace]

Galvanic Bombardment is probably playable right? Fiery Impulse saw play and this gets better as you go. Also, Terese Nielsen doing art in a regular expansion again, although Innistrad is the randomest fit for Terese Nielsen.

 

[Joe Molotov]

At first I thought Galvanic Bombardment said 2 + Number of Cards in Your Graveyard and I was like hooooly shiiii...but then I read it more carefully and had a sad.

 

[ThLunarian]

I think it's cool that zombies are immune to Emrakul's corruption. I am imagining a pivotal scene where Liliana sends an army of undead to conduct an assault on Emrakul and that's how they take it out.

 

[Ozigizo]

Oh, weird. I did not expect the Muscle Burst mechanic to come back.

 

[charlequin]

...that's disappointing. All they revealed was draft uncommons and intro pack rares

They don't have the set article schedule and theme days setup like they used to but even so they like to spend day one on the big set-showoff stuff then burn day two on this kind of stuff.

I wonder how many straight up colorless creatures are gonna be in this set.

There's twelve.

 

[Xis]

Intro pack rares are about what I expected. The blue one looks like the best out of all of them.

I wonder how many straight up colorless creatures are gonna be in this set. I wouldn't want too many (at least there's no Devoid again) but there has to be enough for Grizzled Angler to be good in limited, right?

From the number crunch, we know there are 12 colorless cards; but we don't know how many of them are creatures. For limited, the important question, is how many are at common? There may also be some artifact creatures too.

Also - I wonder what happened with the intro pack rare images; the formatting on them makes them look super fake.

 

[Simply Sarah]

Galvanic Bombardment is probably playable right? Fiery Impulse saw play and this gets better as you go. Also, Terese Nielsen doing art in a regular expansion again, although Innistrad is the randomest fit for Terese Nielsen.

I'd say it's playable if Red is playable. Not super exciting but it seems reasonable enough as far as Red removal goes these days.

 

[DrArchon]

OK, 12 seems like a solid enough number to not have to worry too much about Grizzled Angler never flipping. It should be incredibly powerful in limited if you manage to grab enough common colorless dudes.

 

[A Serious Man]

Fiery Impulse is still the go-to I think, as you'll have to draw (and play) three of these before it's better.

 

[Ozigizo]

Fiery Impulse is still the go-to I think, as you'll have to draw (and play) three of these before it's better.

The damage ceiling is a bit higher for this, but rarely will you need to do more than 3. (Humans)

It might see play after rotation.

 

[explodet]

I think it's cool that zombies are immune to Emrakul's corruption. I am imagining a pivotal scene where Liliana sends an army of undead to conduct an assault on Emrakul and that's how they take it out.

Isn't that what's literally in the trailer?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Just to dive back into that Jace discussion from earlier:

My point here was that you can't ignore the context of this storyline existing to market and sell a card game. All the major changes they've made to how they approach the storytelling are based on what they think will help more players engage with it, and therefore spend more money on the game. Out of all the ideas they've ever had for this, just having an ongoing story (like the ones popular in every other form of media now) starring their most popular characters (once adjusted to cover the full range of colors so as to properly advertise the brand) is clearly the most sensible, so arguing that they shouldn't do that isn't gonna go far.

No one is arguing that they shouldn't do what's good for business.

This is based on the idea that it doesn't make sense to search out Sorin, but I think it pretty clearly does: he's more powerful than anyone in the Gatewatch, he knows more about the Eldrazi, and with Ugin around it's much more likely that he might help. Given that they have no other leads this is a pretty logical step to take next.

Why is it more likely for Sorin to help with Ugin around when Ugin doesn't even intend to help? Not to mention that Sorin is narcistic and preoccupied with himself. It makes just as much sense to pester Ugin until he caves.

Even in the older days of the storyline they never would have done this. Tamiyo isn't a good viewpoint character -- she thinks in a way that's weird to the audience, she has goals that don't align well with what you'd look for in a protagonist, she has no existing relationships and so doesn't tie into the ongoing storyline in any way. Even pre-Gatewatch they would've had Elspeth or Garruk or somebody show up and interact with her as the stock expert type character who can provide exposition.

People can and do like characters that aren't like them. She has no existing relationships because she isn't given any spotlight by Wizards whatsoever. Compare her MTGSalvation page to any other PW it's pitiful and she does tie into the ongoing storyline because she has been on Innistrad the whole time and Emrakul went there.
That Emrakul came to Innistrad is enough to tie them together, there wasn't a need to have a gatewatch member present for the event.
IIRC Liliana was invited to the Gatewatch so the story could easily have gone like this Tamiyo discovers Emrakul seeks out Lili who she should have heard about being on the plane for so long, who then goes to the Jacewatch if they had to include them at all costs.

My broader point would be that the motivation for known characters to get involved in blocks is generally pretty thin. Why is Elspeth in Theros? Why is Gideon in Zendikar? Why does Sarkhan do almost anything? Generally it's something like "the writers thought it would be cool" or "we picked this character to match our color requirements," more than something that falls out of inexorable narrative logic. Putting Jace into Innistrad follows pretty similar kinds of logic, and given that his last expansion set appearance before this was RTR (four blocks earlier) it doesn't seem at all crazy to apply it to him there.

Gideon went to Zendikar stalking Chandra who he's obsessed with after the events in their book.
Sarkhan is crazy.
I didn't follow the Theros story but that was set up pretty long with elspeths sword or just well tied in.
Colour requirements isn't really an argument when Tamiyo already covers blue.

He did just have the Oath of Jace card a couple months ago and was prominently featured on material surrounding the set. He also had a bunch of flavour text appearances in the block.

OK, 12 seems like a solid enough number to not have to worry too much about Grizzled Angler never flipping. It should be incredibly powerful in limited if you manage to grab enough common colorless dudes.

Aren't artifacts counted separately. It combos great with the scarecrow that fetches lands from SOI for instance

 

[Keru_Shiri]

Fiery Impulse is still the go-to I think, as you'll have to draw (and play) three of these before it's better.

I could see running both. There aren't a lot of good burn spells in Standard to begin with, and copies of Bombardment in the yard help your Impulses also.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Remember when Maro said this set wouldn't have a bunch of Eldrazi in it? Good times.

I could see running both. There aren't a lot of good burn spells in Standard to begin with, and copies of Bombardment in the yard help your Impulses also.

You're playing one or the other, I think. Bombardment is better than I think people think it is though. You're taking down progressively bigger things with extra copies of it. I'm not sure it would replace Impulse until it rotates though. It's certainly easier to get to 3 on Impulse than Bombardment.

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

Remember when Maro said this set wouldn't have a bunch of Eldrazi in it? Good times.

They errata'd so only the front face of DFCs counts, remember

Also this isn't a new development in any way but I really hate this milquetoast removal in The New Limited Meta

 

[Matriox]

I'm just hoping we see a mulch variant soon, but maybe I'm just too optimistic. Gather the pack is the closest thing so far I spose but it doesn't seem to be enough.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Problem with the new one is you either have to cut all of them or none post board, you could just shave down the numbers of impulses.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

wow that ulvenwald observer, just a straight shitty harvester of souls/soul of the harvest

 

[Joe Molotov]

I'm glad we don't have to worry about such overpowering cards as Lightning Strike and Wild Slash in Standard anymore.

 

[Angry Grimace]

For all he said about "this is cosmic horror!" it mostly just seems like "Eldrazi on a Plane."

 

[Metroidvania]

For all he said about "this is cosmic horror!" it mostly just seems like "Eldrazi on a Plane."

But it's different, see, because the eldrazi aren't actually here. Emrakul just corrupted the natives into eldrazi-esque inhabitants.

Totally different.

Spoiler

/s

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

For all he said about "this is cosmic horror!" it mostly just seems like "Eldrazi on a Plane."

I'm tired of these motherfucking Eldrazi on these motherfucking planes