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[kirblar]

Mechanics article is up. I guess it's time for me to update the OP.

I have a feeling this set is going to be more divisive than they anticipated.

 

[The Technomancer]

I went back and looked at the BFZ mechanics article, which covered
Awaken
Rally
Landfall
Converge
Ingest
Processors
Eldrazi Scions
and Devoid


Yeah stuff may have gotten a bit out of control

 

[SigmasonicX]

I have a feeling this set is going to be more divisive than they anticipated.

You're literally the only person I've seen be worried the set will have a negative reception, lol.

 

[kirblar]

You're literally the only person I've seen be worried the set will have a negative reception, lol.

Like, visually it's out of the park, but I'm looking at the mechanics like....that's it?

 

[A Serious Man]

I swear Marcio has drawn Soul Swallower, Sage and Ulrich every game.

 

[The Technomancer]

Derp someone totally pointed out that four armed Vedalken would in fact look too much like turning common depictions of Vishnu into a fantasy race, would actually have been too on the nose in a less than tasteful way

 

[SigmasonicX]

Interesting, in the Energy video in the mechanics article, it shows that you can get a card named "Energy Reserve", which says, "Place your energy counters in this area." The video uses dice for energy counters. Neat that they're handling it that way.

EDIT: For fabricate, you decide if you want counters or creatures on resolution. If a fabricate creature enters the battlefield and it leaves in response to its fabricate trigger, you automatically get the Servo tokens.

Derp someone totally pointed out that four armed Vedalken would in fact look too much like turning common depictions of Vishnu into a fantasy race, would actually have been too on the nose in a less than tasteful way

That guy in the World Building Panel Q&A referenced that, when he said he was glad the vedalkens only had two arms.

 

[The Technomancer]

Like, visually it's out of the park, but I'm looking at the mechanics like....that's it?

Energy looks like its doing all of the lifting this set

Well that and all the juicy artifacts we haven't seen so far

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

With all the hyping, even from you guys I just don't see what they currently showed meeting these expectations.

Also no GY hate, we need some GY hate

 

[SigmasonicX]

One thing to keep in mind is that mechanics rarely correlate to power level, or what will see play in Constructed. They do a lot to shape Limited, but remember that the most played card from Dragons of Tarkir is currently Collected Company, which has nothing to do with any of that set's mechanics.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I am not feeling vehicles, btw.

Sorry kirbs, only mtgstocks guy I listen to is that guy on youtube that throws boxes around and pastes credit cards to his vest.

 

[A Serious Man]

I really hope there are more vehicles than just "big creature at a good rate that requires a little work to turn on". We've yet to see them do something clever with the mechanic.

 

[Simply Sarah]

I really hope there are more vehicles than just "big creature at a good rate that requires a little work to turn on". We've yet to see them do something clever with the mechanic.

Well, we know they'll interact with pilots in various ways. That could potentially lead to some interesting mix and match possibilities.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Well, we know they'll interact with pilots in various ways. That could potentially lead to some interesting mix and match possibilities.

This makes me realize, that's pretty similar to my general idea for how riggers and contraptions could be done, with riggers being able to provide some benefit to the contraptions.

 

[The Technomancer]

This makes me realize, that's pretty similar to my general idea for how riggers and contraptions could be done, with riggers being able to provide some benefit to the contraptions.

I've taken a couple stabs at Contraptions over the years but the whole "assembly" thing is where it gets messy because you really want it to feel like you're putting together disparate components. First attempt were artifacts that just used charge counters until they "fell apart" and could be re-assembled which is sort of like this. Second were riders on other cards that gave you "gears" and "pistons" but I couldn't figure out what to do with them that wouldn't be a nightmare to track

 

[A Serious Man]

Eh.

 

[The Technomancer]

Eh.

Those are the types of decisions I want to see. Unfortunately by the time you hit 5 mana if three 1/1s that swing for 5 is what you need, you're probably in a bad spot

 

[GoutPatrol]

Eh.

Eh indeed. Worse than that Beastmaster from RTR.

 

[HK-47]

They just did Daretti.

It's a combat game. Different builds is good (and the different races mostly provide that), but people fighting tend to be in shape.

With wizards and artificers around? People who can do magic with a wave of their hands or build shit to do all the work for them? Nah I call bullshit.

 

[charlequin]

I remember you guys saying that Tiny Leaders isn't really a thing and it's just being pushed by card retailers, but has it completely fallen out of favor?

The last update of any of their web presence was in April.

My only potential concern with how energy is represented is that when you start getting higher costs it's easier to start getting lost in correctly counting the number.

Yeah, this has pretty much the same problem as mana in that sense. I believe they said there's only a couple cards with 6+ energy costs (possibly we saw all of them already) and I think it should be pretty legible up to 5.

Aetherborn are basically the Consortium from WoW

omg you're right

I instantly like them even better now.

Not a huge fan of vehicles. I kind of wish vehicles were equipment that could attach to multiple creatures, but I realize making rules for that would have been much trickier than what they did.

Thanks to the work they did for soulbond it's actually not too hard to make work in the rules, I think the biggest issue is really illustrating which cards are connected on the table.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Eh.

The anti-synergy is annoying, but it still seems like a fine Limited card. If you make Servos then have them attack, the Servos will be 2/2s. Granted, I don't know why they're making it a promo card.

Also, mechanics are up in the OP.

EDIT: Oh, and may as well start asking now. Suggestions for the thread title?

 

[Etrian Oddity]

I am so fucking excited for this shit.

 

[The Technomancer]

Holy crap I've fallen down the rabbit hole of Magic story Tumblrs

There's...a lot of really good stuff in here

 

[charlequin]

Yeah stuff may have gotten a bit out of control

Well and I mean out of those eight (!!!) BFZ mechanics, one literally does nothing, one does something insignificant that only matters for yet another one of them which never got developed effectively, and one other is completely perplexing since it has nothing to do with anything else in the set.

I have a feeling this set is going to be more divisive than they anticipated.

None of the mechanics have the qualities that tend to prompt a lot of backlash and it isn't really positioned to be destructive to competitive formats. I honestly don't think there are many people who will be unhappy about sets having a smaller mechanical footprint after the last two years.

That said, if we go back and count mechanics from block-starting large sets:

SOI: 3 new + 2 returning
BFZ: 5 new + 3 returning-ish
KTK: 5 new + 1 returning
THS: 3 new + 2 returning
RTR: 5 new + 1 returning
ISD: 4 new + 1 returning
SOI: 3 new + 1 returning
ZEN: 2 new + 1 returning (plus some not-quite-there stuff like allies)

We do have to go all the way back to Zendikar to find another block with this few mechanics.

Holy crap I've fallen down the rabbit hole of Magic story Tumblrs

There's...a lot of really good stuff in here

There are a surprising number of people who do a good job tracking and sifting through this shit.

 

[cooltrainer]

I am not super impressed with what I've seen so far but I'm hopeful more interesting cards will come. Most of the vehicles are pretty generic magic creatures so far, though the skyship looks really cool. Fabricate will probably mostly limited stuff. The energy cards are the most intriguing. If you have lots of energy producing cards you could produce a pretty interesting economy and really consider what you're gonna spend your energy on. I think the most interesting stuff from that will come when you put cards together and build a whole deck around it.

 

[The Technomancer]

Fabricate could go either way depending on the synergies.

 

[charlequin]

Fabricate will probably mostly limited stuff.

Given how often token strategies have been dominant in recent years, Fabricate is actually the one I think is most likely to have an impact on Standard -- vehicles really still seem pretty uncertain to me, and energy is gonna be very dependent on what the cards look like, while it'll only take one really efficient Fabricator in a good color to be a thing.

 

[HK-47]

Holy crap I've fallen down the rabbit hole of Magic story Tumblrs

There's...a lot of really good stuff in here

I dont believe you.

 

[A Serious Man]

I have that hat.

 

[Ashodin]

I'd that was the mythic I'd shit myself with laughter

 

[cooltrainer]

Given how often token strategies have been dominant in recent years, Fabricate is actually the one I think is most likely to have an impact on Standard -- vehicles really still seem pretty uncertain to me, and energy is gonna be very dependent on what the cards look like, while it'll only take one really efficient Fabricator in a good color to be a thing.

Yeah you're probably right about that one. I always felt that that investigate was also kind of a tie in with this set. I wonder how generating lots of artifact tokens might be a strong strategy if the right cards come. Something like Ghirapur Aether Grid where you can leverage all of your tiny artifacts.

 

[The Technomancer]

There's gonna be one vehicle that makes a splash in constructed. Maybe two

 

[charlequin]

Yeah you're probably right about that one. I always felt that that investigate was also kind of a tie in with this set. I wonder how generating lots of artifact tokens might be a strong strategy if the right cards come. Something like Ghirapur Aether Grid where you can leverage all of your tiny artifacts.

Yeah, investigate was one of the biggest reasons I was sure this would be Kaladesh before it was announced. Given the Servos and Thopters and such I would be shocked if there aren't a bunch of cool things you can do by having a bunch of tiny artifacts.

 

[duxstar]

So the first thing to remember when evaluatng any new cards is to compare it to similar cards that are in the same block.

So far they've spoiled a 3/3 for 4 in red , and a 3/3 for 4 in white. Then I remembered theres a 4/3 flying first strike lifelinking eldrazi angel in standard that sees almost 0 play and realized these cards arent playable.

 

[The Technomancer]

So the first thing to remember when evaluatng any new cards is to compare it to similar cards that are in the same block.

So far they've spoiled a 3/3 for 4 in red , and a 3/3 for 4 in white. Then I remembered theres a 4/3 flying first strike lifelinking eldrazi angel in standard that sees almost 0 play and realized these cards arent playable.

Yeah but what's leaving?

 

[Yeef]

I'm hoping we see an Energy Converter card that allows you to trade some resource for energy or vice versa. Something along like:

Energy Transmuter
Artifact
{E}{E}: Untap target land.
Sacrifice a land: You get {E}{E}.

(But, you know, actually designed to be fair).

Yeah but what's leaving?

Fiery Impulse.

The cards that make X/3's (and X/4's to some degree) less playable right now are Fiery Impulse, Fiery, Temper, Grasp of Darkness and Languish. Impulse and Languish are leaving; Grasp of Darkness is double colored and Temper is really only solid if you have enough discard effects. Depending on how things shake out, it's possible neither of those will be as widely played after rotation. Galvanic Bombardment might potentially replace Impulse, but it's going to be worse a lot of the time.

 

[SigmasonicX]

It's important to remember that Standard is currently being drastically warped by Collected Company. Gisela not currently seeing play is pretty much solely due to that.

As for the dragon and roc that have been spoiled, they're pretty clearly Limited rares. I don't think anyone is under any illusion otherwise.

And again, any suggestions for the thread title? I won't ask charlequin to change it until Sunday night, but it would be nice to get suggestions throughout PAX.

EDIT: The vehicle I mentioned that was revealed in Drive to Work Live.

 

[cuc]

Finally having Dwarves in White is cool.

Aetherborn is hitting a lot of right notes on what I wanted from representatives of Black. I'm curious about finding out their actual biology and socioeconomics. I mean, where do they get the wealth to consume and patronize arts with if they are all industrial "byproducts"? Do they work? Do they have a system of inheritance?

 

[charlequin]

This thing about BYODrafts in the Drive To Work Live is really interesting. I don't think we'd heard of this before, but they do themed drafts inside WotC related to future sets, where they'll announce a theme, have participants design cards towards it, have development make a quick pass to turn the result into something vaguely draftable, then draft it, play, and provide notes about the cards they liked. Humble Defector was originally designed for one of these.

Also, y'all left out the best bit from the DTWL which is how the tapped-artifacts rule went away because Mark was pissed off about Sandsipoise screwing up the Invitational.

So the first thing to remember when evaluatng any new cards is to compare it to similar cards that are in the same block.

So far they've spoiled a 3/3 for 4 in red , and a 3/3 for 4 in white.

I'd say the first thing to remember is that the average cards you see from the set aren't going to be representative of the power level of the stuff that should be considered for constructed decks.

 

[sgjackson]

did an emn draft tonight after not having drafted since the beginning of khans of tarkir. drafted okay, played horribly, had a lovely time.

 

[SigmasonicX]

One thing that surprises me is that so far, the artifacts in this set seem not to care about color. One of the main lessons from original Mirrodin was that too many artifacts screws up the color pie, and one solution was to have colored activation costs and such. But here, blue can get access to a 6/1 trample haste Vehicle for (4), as long as it has a 1/1 creature. I'm guessing the way they'll define color within the artifacts is to have the colors care about them in different ways, such as red having more Pilots to boost Vehicles.

And to get us started, my thread title suggestion:

Magic: the Gathering |OT9| Kaladesh - Tap Emrakul to get the hype train started

 

[The Technomancer]

EDIT: The vehicle I mentioned that was revealed in Drive to Work Live.

I love this. I love that I can picture it crashing into the battlefield and running someone over before it rolls to a halt and can be ridden

 

[HK-47]

It's important to remember that Standard is currently being drastically warped by Collected Company. Gisela not currently seeing play is pretty much solely due to that.

As for the dragon and roc that have been spoiled, they're pretty clearly Limited rares. I don't think anyone is under any illusion otherwise.

And again, any suggestions for the thread title? I won't ask charlequin to change it until Sunday night, but it would be nice to get suggestions throughout PAX.

EDIT: The vehicle I mentioned that was revealed in Drive to Work Live.

Eh solely due to CoCo? I doubt that. Grasp and Iskanah both eat it.

 

[Yeef]

|OT| 93% fabrication, 6% energy, 4% piloting, & 2% butterscotch ripple

(Way too long, I'm sure).

 

[charlequin]

Magic: the Gathering |OT9| Kaladesh - To Servo Mankind

 

[HK-47]

Finally having Dwarves in White is cool.

Aetherborn is hitting a lot of right notes on what I wanted from representatives of Black. I'm curious about finding out their actual biology and socioeconomics. I mean, where do they get the wealth to consume and patronize arts with if they are all industrial "byproducts"? Do they work? Do they have a system of inheritance?

Are you sure you arent asking too much of wizards storytelling?

 

[Yeef]

Magic: the Gathering |OT9| Kaladesh - To Servo Mankind

What's the character limit? The title box seems to be limited to 86 characters, but I don't know if that's accurate or not.

 

[traveler]

Odds we get a

Pilot Elf
G
Whenever Pilot Elf is tapped, add G to your mana pool
1/1

?

 

[Etrian Oddity]

I've never done a draft for release, but if I'm not scheduled to work on Release Weekend I am so fucking going for this set.

 

[Infinite Stars]

Affinity: a deck so easy to play that you can burn double Galvanic Blast on a Loxodon Smiter and still win.

Grumble Grumble