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[Familienoberhauptvogel]

The issue is that there aren't any efficient answer. I have a cheap deck I like playing it but there's no maindeckable answer to a turn 2 copter the turn it comes down and that's about the only time you don't make yourself vulnerable to get 2 for 1'd. There's no maindeckable answer to PWs unless you are heavy in black,... the list goes on. I think the powerlevel of their pushed cards is fine it's the powerlevel of the unpushed cards that makes for a bad environment.

I'm gonna start running the bad manaleak going forward as a catchall answer.

 

[bigkrev]

Replacing boosters with Showdown packs has the same problem that replacing packs/PP with Treasure Chests had on MTGO- sealed boosters have a defined monetary value (I've "bought" cards from players in stores by agreeing to a price, and then buying that many boosters and trading them for the cards), where as these don't have value.

But yeah, Standard hasn't interested me any less as a format as it does right now- I find that I'm not even watching streams of Standard tournaments in the background anymore. I'm 100% just a Modern player now who does occasional drafts. I have no idea how you realistically fix the issues- I'm beginning to think that getting rid of the core set and switching to 2 set blocks was a bad idea, because they are printing so many cards that can only be good in limited ways, as they have decided that all standard decks just have to be midrange grinds. Lets get back to a point where a Red deck is an option, lets let a control deck is an option at FNM instead of just a Pro Tour, ect.

It's sounding like fixing a "bug" may have inadvertently killed a major feature. And badly.

But Yugioh has had a similar problem for years (print absurdly powerful cards at super secret rarity that make them $100 untill they get reprinted at like common 12 months later and thus tank the value) and doesn't seem to have dwindling playerbase issues.

 

[Infinite Stars]

Aether Hub is a good one. Should be in the program.

If Aether Hub isn't a promo then they've goofed up hard.

I strongly suspect they overshot dramatically in how much they devalued Standard singles prices. Who wants to play a tournament for 4 boosters when you can just buy the cards you need for $20 online?

edit: uuhhhh...this might be bad:

Who wants to bet that they saw everyone complaining(rightfully) about $1000 Standard decks for BFZ/OGW Standard and tried to mitigate it and we got this in response?

It's sounding like fixing a "bug" may have inadvertently killed a major feature. And badly.

Which bug is this exactly? High Standard prices?

The problem is how stupidly pushed certain cards are now.

It leads to every deck having them and they aren't fun to begin with. Everyone whined about Rhino but you don't instantly lose to Rhino. You just take a drain three and Hero's Downfall it.

While we're at it reprint fucking Hero's Downfall.

Also, at least Rhino forced you into 3 colours to even cast the thing. Every card in Standard there's been pushed is either Mono coloured or dual, and they're somehow more pushed then Rhino.

I'm all for a Hero's Downfall reprint, because the card isn't good against Aggro(Sure, pay 3 mana to kill my 2 mana dude) but can nuke nearly every creature in the format right now at parity or better.

Only issue is that I'm not sure Wizards wants Ruinous Path in with it at the same time.

 

[kirblar]

Replacing boosters with Showdown packs has the same problem that replacing packs/PP with Treasure Chests had on MTGO- sealed boosters have a defined monetary value (I've "bought" cards from players in stores by agreeing to a price, and then buying that many boosters and trading them for the cards), where as these don't have value.

But Yugioh has had a similar problem for years (print absurdly powerful cards at super secret rarity that make them $100 untill they get reprinted at like common 12 months later and thus tank the value) and doesn't seem to have dwindling playerbase issues.

Those Super Secret cards are standard legal.

"Bug" is expensive cards, yeah. They're a carrot. Players now have carrots raining.

 

[Bandini]

Most stores here do Store Credit as the prizes. So Standard prices don't super matter. Is that not the usual thing elsewhere?

My LGS used to do that but switched to prize packs a couple months ago. You can sell the prize packs to the store for $2 store credit each now. And they decreased the overall size of the pool by about 30%.

The bullshit reasoning they gave is they don't want to get in trouble for gambling. Like how is it any different than getting packs that you trade in for credit?

When I was playing a couple years back, you'd see 25-30 people for Standard at FNM. I went a couple weeks ago and we had maybe half that.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I mean, I don't know what prices look like, but I can tell you that Standard being shitty is the reason I haven't played it in months. I don't think prizing matters that much since I've never been to a store that doesn't give out store credit. The problem is that standard sucks.

All I've been doing with the game recently is drafting Kaladesh. I'm okay at the format. I don't love it, but it can lead to good games as long as the ridiculous constructed bombs don't end up in the game.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Black isn't the best color in Kaladesh draft, but I end up in it a lot because it feels like it has a pretty high number of playable commons.

 

[Ashodin]

Thanks, is open the vault good? The one time it was played against me it made another player win on the spot. Np Nihil Spellbomb / Relic of Progenitus / Tormod's Crypt?

Yeah depends on your meta.

 

[charlequin]

I wouldn't over-read into the store closings under discussion there. That's a localized (albeit certainly very strange) phenomenon in a region that's awkward for this business for a few reasons. In most places successful LGS don't get by on Magic only because exactly this kind of thing would be too disruptive; they have a heavy focus on board games and other hobby gaming specifically so dips in attendance for one game don't break the bank.

I can see how changing the payout structure could influence attendance, but there are a lot of knobs on that and you could definitely tweak it in a number of ways to address the problem without bringing standard prices way up again. I really think problems with the format are the bigger problem here, as they've usually been in the past.

 

[Wulfric]

Most stores here do Store Credit as the prizes. So Standard prices don't super matter. Is that not the usual thing elsewhere?

We do pack per win for modern, standard is free w/ FNM promos for all. Draft pod winner gets $15 credit or a free draft. You get what you pay for I guess. The store is pretty casual, but it's clean and the owner schedules lots of PPTQs for the competitive crowd. I would go somewhere else

Replacing boosters with Showdown packs has the same problem that replacing packs/PP with Treasure Chests had on MTGO- sealed boosters have a defined monetary value (I've "bought" cards from players in stores by agreeing to a price, and then buying that many boosters and trading them for the cards), where as these don't have value.

But Yugioh has had a similar problem for years (print absurdly powerful cards at super secret rarity that make them $100 untill they get reprinted at like common 12 months later and thus tank the value) and doesn't seem to have dwindling playerbase issues.

You know, I didn't think about the redundancy of showdown boosters for FNM. Lots of stores already give out packs for prizes, so an extra booster would be kind of lame. And if actually Wizards does start handing them out instead of FNM promos, then stores might take that chance to remove a regular booster from their pool.

 

[bigkrev]

Here is my idea to #SaveStandardFNM

Take all the foils you make now and make them participation prizes like Game Day does. Let stores order as many of them as they want at a super cheap rate, and have it so that just for showing up and playing, you get a prize card. This encourages you to show up every week, because you will earn a playset for just showing up.

Now, take a rare- probably a legendary creature so there is appeal for EDH, or a card you think is going to be standard playable if not nessecary a staple- and distribute those like FNM Promos are distributed now- 4 given out per week to the top performers. Make these cards from the previous block (so they aren't cannibalizing values of the current set).

This obviously will cost more money, but Wizards used to send Gateway foils and the like out, they already send out FNM promos and Gameday promos- this should add minimal costs to Wizards and stores (realistically, WOTC should eat the cost of this), and now you have both incentivised newer players to play- they get a cool prize regardless of preformance- and you now incentivise more experienced players to come to the store on Friday Night to compete for a real prize.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

You know, I didn't think about the redundancy of showdown boosters for FNM. Lots of stores already give out packs for prizes, so an extra booster would be kind of lame. And if actually Wizards does start handing them out instead of FNM promos, then stores might take that chance to remove a regular booster from their pool.

That'd be good, chances are stores are breaking even or making pennies at best for FNMs.
Especially in Europe there are few big name LGS that can hold events like SCG and CFB can.

 

[bigkrev]

That'd be good, chances are stores are breaking even or making pennies at best for FNMs.
Especially in Europe there are few big name LGS that can hold events like SCG and CFB can.

FNM is an excuse to get players in store in the hopes that they buy snacks/drinks/singles/other products.

 

[Infinite Stars]

Here is my idea to #SaveStandardFNM

Take all the foils you make now and make them participation prizes like Game Day does. Let stores order as many of them as they want at a super cheap rate, and have it so that just for showing up and playing, you get a prize card. This encourages you to show up every week, because you will earn a playset for just showing up.

Now, take a rare- probably a legendary creature so there is appeal for EDH, or a card you think is going to be standard playable if not nessecary a staple- and distribute those like FNM Promos are distributed now- 4 given out per week to the top performers. Make these cards from the previous block (so they aren't cannibalizing values of the current set).

This obviously will cost more money, but Wizards used to send Gateway foils and the like out, they already send out FNM promos and Gameday promos- this should add minimal costs to Wizards and stores (realistically, WOTC should eat the cost of this), and now you have both incentivised newer players to play- they get a cool prize regardless of preformance- and you now incentivise more experienced players to come to the store on Friday Night to compete for a real prize.

I like this idea a lot actually. It's more "balanced" then the packs, that's for certain, and Makes FNM not be less of a feels bad for New players.

 

[Wulfric]

That'd be good, chances are stores are breaking even or making pennies at best for FNMs.
Especially in Europe there are few big name LGS that can hold events like SCG and CFB can.

Yep, selling booster packs and soda to kids seem to be where the money's at.

How is the Legacy climate in Europe? I hear it's a more active scene over there, perhaps because of the shorter distance and train system?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

FNM is an excuse to get players in store in the hopes that they buy snacks/drinks/singles/other products.

hopes don't pay rent. What works in the US doesn't necessarily work in Europe.

Yep, selling booster packs and soda to kids seem to be where the money's at.

How is the Legacy climate in Europe? I hear it's a more active scene over there, perhaps because of the shorter distance and train system?

No idea, my little store fires some events off every now and then but they tend to be only 3 rounds or so. From what I could tell most cities in Europe have few LGS most of them in the city center but they seem to average out to 1 per million citizens.

It's also hard to undersell how prolific selling cards online is. Heck I inadvertently bought cards from someone in my LGS, he approached me because I had not rated the purhcase yet.

 

[I am Error]

How is the Legacy climate in Europe? I hear it's a more active scene over there, perhaps because of the shorter distance and train system?

The store in a town nearby is a legacy stronghold, but that is rather unique I guess. No other store is hosting legacy events in my area.

 

[Angry Grimace]

lol just 3-0'd a draft with the dumbest 3 color deck. 0 bombs, just black commons splashing red for Fiery Reprisal and Unlicensed Disintegration and white because Veteran Motorist was the only playable creature I had left in my pool.

Also, 18 lands and 41 cards in my deck, and no I didn't notice I had done that until after the league was over.

 

[Joe Molotov]

I used to draft once a week at my local shop, but drafts never fire anymore. Everyone just plays EDH on non-Friday nights. Fuck EDH.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I once drafted 3 Aetherborn Marauder in a B/G deck and then got passed a Verdurous Gearhulk. I didn't 3-0 because my first opponent had an Angel of Invention I couldn't answer.

 

[Wulfric]

hopes don't pay rent. What works in the US doesn't necessarily work in Europe.

No idea, my little store fires some events off every now and then but they tend to be only 3 rounds or so. From what I could tell most cities in Europe have few LGS most of them in the city center but they seem to average out to 1 per million citizens.

It's also hard to undersell how prolific selling cards online is. Heck I inadvertently bought cards from someone in my LGS, he approached me because I had not rated the purhcase yet.

That's unfortunate, we have the same problem. It's the same 8 people each week and it gets kind of old.

I've sold cards in my own city more than once. I just ask if it's okay to hand deliver and drop it in the buyer's mailbox.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Jund has a bad matchup against Burn.

 

[Wulfric]

Jund has a bad matchup against Burn.

D:

What happened?

 

[red13th]

why did you post this. ouch

 

[Infinite Stars]

At least there's sleeves on it?

Seriously though, how did that happen?

 

[Joe Molotov]

WTS: MP Jund deck

 

[kirblar]

Honestly? Email WotC about it. They might be able to help.

 

[Angry Grimace]

It's not my deck. I just got it from some Facebook group.

Went to my first FNM in months and it's fucking barren.

 

[Hero]

Already replied to Kirblar about this on Twitter but is there something Wizards and local stores could run on the local level? Maybe like a league/season based system? I feel like right now there's very little incentive for communities to play FNM or weekend Magic and circuits like SCG or pro events like GP/PT are too costly in terms of money + time for most people that just want to play one day a week or so.

 

[Ashodin]

AFter C16 release, our FNM was fucking STACKED. People love Commander near us because it A) doesn't rotate and B) only need singletons

so yes most of us are broke as fuck

Also OPAL EYE WON A GAME!!! in the tournament no less!

My opponent was milling me out with Unstable Mutation or whatever the hell and some sort of artifact aht mills when a permanent etbs

I got to ONE card left and he made me draw OPEN THE VAULTS. Nuff said.

 

[Infinite Stars]

AFter C16 release, our FNM was fucking STACKED. People love Commander near us because it A) doesn't rotate and B) only need singletons

so yes most of us are broke as fuck

Also OPAL EYE WON A GAME!!! in the tournament no less!

My opponent was milling me out with Unstable Mutation or whatever the hell and some sort of artifact aht mills when a permanent etbs

I got to ONE card left and he made me draw OPEN THE VAULTS. Nuff said.

Altar of the Brood?

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=386475&type=card

I went to Yellowjacket, Modern fired with 8 and Standard didn't fire. The fears are real.

 

[aidan]

I went to Yellowjacket, Modern fired with 8 and Standard didn't fire. The fears are real.

It's concerning when Yellowjacket of all places can't fire a Standard FNM.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Already replied to Kirblar about this on Twitter but is there something Wizards and local stores could run on the local level? Maybe like a league/season based system? I feel like right now there's very little incentive for communities to play FNM or weekend Magic and circuits like SCG or pro events like GP/PT are too costly in terms of money + time for most people that just want to play one day a week or so.

Print better cards.

 

[Ashodin]

It's concerning when Yellowjacket of all places can't fire a Standard FNM.

pretty sure WotC heavily looking into things now

YJ is like the canadian ambassador of magic

 

[Joe Molotov]

Print better cards.

Okay, here's some more creatures with powerful etb effects.

 

[HK-47]

Okay, here's some more creatures with powerful etb effects.

Awesome. ETB value is my favorite archetype

 

[OnPoint]

I personally love ETB effects on creatures, but spells need to be good too. Spell Queller being the defacto counterspell in the format is stupid.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Okay, here's some more creatures with powerful etb effects.

Powerful cards aren't necessarily good.

 

[Infinite Stars]

It's concerning when Yellowjacket of all places can't fire a Standard FNM.

Nelson and Ed mentioned something that they hadn't been able to fire a Standard FNM for the past few weeks. Apparently, they did fire one last week, but only 4 people participated. Certainly not a good look, I'll say.

 

[Hero]

Print better cards.

Define better, because I don't think we're in this mess because cards like Collected Company were too weak. Need more answers.

 

[Firemind]

I haven't played Standard since... RTR-Theros I think? As someone who only marginally plays cardboard Magic (can't even qualify for WMCQs lol), a format that rotates within a year and cards get worthless in an instant is deadly. I learned my mistake. Never buy into Standard.

 

[Ashodin]

Saskia Samurai is everything I wanted it to be. It's beautiful.

 

[Infinite Stars]

Define better, because I don't think we're in this mess because cards like Collected Company were too weak. Need more answers.

Collected Company was perfectly fine for roughly half of its lifespan. No one was complaining about it when CoCo decks were running Deathmist Dino/Maternal Witness. The moment they printed Reflector Mage is the moment CoCo went from "It's a bit strong but nothing too bad" to "I pay 4 during your turn, bounce your dudes + get two 2/3s."

Collected Company screams to me of a card that works perfectly fine to a standard where it's not the best green card that gives you the best cards in the format. As much as I love to slag on BFZ Standard(no, I'm sorry, your deck is not "Dark Jeskai" if White is the splash), at least it wasn't just Creatures running into each other.

 

[Card Boy]

I saw this "budget" $20 deck here (which has raised in price now due to Pummler and Aether Hub going up in price) on the Tolarian Community College YT page.

https://deckstats.net/decks/64842/578895-big-mean-power-doubling-machin/en

Whats the point of Evolving Winds in this deck when you can't use it to search for a Aether Hub?

 

[HK-47]

I saw this "budget" $20 deck here (which has raised in price now due to Pummler and Aether Hub going up in price) on the Tolarian Community College YT page.

https://deckstats.net/decks/64842/578895-big-mean-power-doubling-machin/en

Whats the point of Evolving Winds in this deck when you can't use it to search for a Aether Hub?

I guess they want double energy off Architect?

 

[Santiako]

Day 2 of the SCG Invitational is starting now. I think it's 4 rounds of Standard, then 4 rounds of Modern, and top 8 Standard.

 

[bigkrev]

Eternal Masters boxes are on Massdrop for $170 right now with 6 days left

 

[phazedplasma]

What's the EV on EM now

 

[SigmasonicX]

I haven't played Standard since... RTR-Theros I think? As someone who only marginally plays cardboard Magic (can't even qualify for WMCQs lol), a format that rotates within a year and cards get worthless in an instant is deadly. I learned my mistake. Never buy into Standard.

I feel like there needs to be an in-between for Standard and Modern, but the key is that unlike Extended, there should be a reasonable expectation that you don't have to upgrade your deck. You should be able to just bring your Theros standard deck and have a reasonable chance at winning.

Perhaps they could start doing "Standard vs. Standard" events in the month before a new set comes out. You can bring decks for the current Standard, or a deck from an old Standard that changes every week, with no card crossover. Or perhaps you can mix and match, but you start with one less card in hand. You register with the Standard you will be using, and it will be a casual event, so you don't have to list your entire deck. In matches, players will be required to say what Standard they are playing with, and if someone notices or suspects they aren't sticking to that, then a judge can be called over.

So one week could be Theros vs. Kaladesh, which is to say, (Return to Ravnica block + M13? + Theros block) vs. (Battle for Zendikar block + Shadows over Innistrad block + Kaladesh block). Then the next could be Innistrad vs. Kaladesh, and so on.

This would be easier to enforce online, but if the judges encourage players to ask them if they suspect a card isn't in the format, and the judges actually know, then it could work out in paper.

 

[Ashodin]

Lol uw sprouts sucks