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[Attleborotaco]

Does that make all shapeshifters able to be fetched too because plains would then be a correct creature type.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Innistrad looks german?

 

[kirblar]

Innistrad looks german?

Very.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I've been to germany and grew up in a culturally fraternal space and I never drew that connection. Really? To me everything cried victorian england / american colonies.

 

[kirblar]

In addittion to the language (geists, sturm, etc), Gavony looks like this:

There's multiple western reference points in the different towns, IIRC.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

You can find villages like that pretty much anywhere in central and western europe. The german words tho make sense all of a sudden.

The attire and such doesn't seem german at all though.

 

[kirblar]

You can find villages like that pretty much anywhere in central and western europe. The german words tho make sense all of a sudden.

At least here in the US, that architecture's got a real specific association with Germany. (EPCOT)

The clothes are definitely not German. They just pulled it in as an architecture reference to differentiate the various areas.

 

[UberLevi]

Hey there, Magic The Gaffering. So I've been out of the MTG loop for a while (since Dragon's Maze) ever since I moved from home. Haven't really found many people around here who I was willing to play with, but recently my roommates have been interested in learning Magic, so I've picked it back up and am trying to show them the ropes.

I have this R/B Vampire aggro deck that I've cultivated over the past few years and it's kind of my pride and joy. Since I've recently gotten back into Magic and this new set covers Innistrad, I was hoping you guys could maybe critique my deck and possibly offer suggestions for which of these newest cards could be slotted in.

This deck has done really well for me but I was thinking it could use a fresher take on vampire tribal. Any suggestions for what can be replaced? I really like the +1/+1 on combat damage to a player mechanic. I've got some ways to facilitate that, and mainly this deck is intended to play cheap creatures fast, and get them beefed up by the time my opponent has enough mana to play anything substantial. I like to streamline my decks, so ideally I keep the mana cost no higher than 4 and the deck size no larger than 60.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

At least here in the US, that architecture's got a real specific association with Germany. (EPCOT)

The clothes are definitely not German. They just pulled it in as an architectural reference to differentiate the various areas.

That's fascinating, of it weren't for the german words on the walls in both pictures I would probably have guessed france. But that's the country I travelled through the most rural regions in my life.

Hey there, Magic The Gaffering. So I've been out of the MTG loop for a while (since Dragon's Maze) ever since I moved from home. Haven't really found many people around here who I was willing to play with, but recently my roommates have been interested in learning Magic, so I've picked it back up and am trying to show them the ropes.

I have this R/B Vampire aggro deck that I've cultivated over the past few years and it's kind of my pride and joy. Since I've recently gotten back into Magic and this new set covers Innistrad, I was hoping you guys could maybe critique my deck and possibly offer suggestions for which of these newest cards could be slotted in.

This deck has done really well for me but I was thinking it could use a fresher take on vampire tribal. Any suggestions for what can be replaced? I really like the +1/+1 on combat damage to a player mechanic. I've got some ways to facilitate that, and mainly this deck is intended to play cheap creatures fast, and get them beefed up by the time my opponent has enough mana to play anything substantial. I like to streamline my decks, so ideally I keep the mana cost no higher than 4 and the deck size no larger than 60.

Definitely needs some lightning bolts and in regards to newer vampires.

This card is a bit more expensive but works with your theme

This guy could replace some of the 2 drops does need up to 3 black though

 

[divisionbyzorro]

racist whiners writing to maro to complain that the steampunk plane isn't based on a white culture smdh

If people keep misusing the word "racist" like this, it truly will have lost all meaning. The QM is not wrong - "steampunk" calls to mind some very striking and specific visuals, and what we've seen so far doesn't really align to that. QM probably has a strong affinity for steampunk and is disappointed by this block because it's not the thing he wanted. That doesn't make him right

Spoiler

(especially since traditional steampunk is super lame and cliche )

but it doesn't make him racist either.

 

[Crocodile]

If people keep misusing the word "racist" like this, it truly will have lost all meaning. The QM is not wrong - "steampunk" calls to mind some very striking and specific visuals, and what we've seen so far doesn't really align to that. QM probably has a strong affinity for steampunk and is disappointed by this block because it's not the thing he wanted. That doesn't make him right

Spoiler

(especially since traditional steampunk is super lame and cliche )

but it doesn't make him racist either.

Eh, too many people online (including GAF) are way more concerned about using the word "racist" than actually racist issues for me to really care too much about coddling someone's feeling in this regard. Like if we were WOTC PR I might be super careful about my language but as a random denizen of the internet I can't be too concerned especially since any -ism is never a matter of black and white, its a gradient/spectrum. At the end of the day, though steampunk my have gotten its start within the Victorian English setting, there is nothing that inherently and forcibly ties the two together. I even had a heartily laugh when they complained about the "nonsense" that is Japanese Gothic Horror when that is already a thing that exists (Vampire Hunter D was already brought up, Castlevania is that to a T, etc.). Hell there's even an anime airing right now this season that mixes steampunk with feudal Japan (and also zombies ) and I haven't heard a single English speaking person anywhere complain "but why Japan?".

Like what about steampunk + India doesn't make sense? Why is the tumblr user uncomfortable? Why doesn't it work? You have to have a very rigid definition and sentimentality of steampunk if a cultural difference is rustling your jimmies even slightly. You can often create new and exciting things by doing some mixing and matching in ways never done before - seems way better to me that going down the same paths over and over again. I'm not going to say there is never a good reason for the tumblr user to feel the way they did and maybe if they were here they could explain themselves better. My experiences online though tell me they probably don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Eh, too many people online (including GAF) are way more concerned about using the word "racist" than actually racist issues for me to really care too much about coddling someone's feeling in this regard. Like if we were WOTC PR I might be super careful about my language but as a random denizen of the internet I can't be too concerned especially since any -ism is never a matter of black and white, its a gradient/spectrum. At the end of the day, though steampunk my have gotten its start within the Victorian English setting, there is nothing that inherently and forcibly ties the two together. I even had a heartily laugh when they complained about the "nonsense" that is Japanese Gothic Horror when that is already a thing that exists (Vampire Hunter D was already brought up, Castlevania is that to a T, etc.). Hell there's even an anime airing right now this season that mixes steampunk with feudal Japan (and also zombies ) and I haven't heard a single English speaking person anywhere complain "but why Japan?".

Like what about steampunk + India doesn't make sense? Why is the tumblr user uncomfortable? Why doesn't it work? You have to have a very rigid definition and sentimentality of steampunk if a cultural difference is rustling your jimmies even slightly. You can often create new and exciting things by doing some mixing and matching in ways never done before - seems way better to me that going down the same paths over and over again. I'm not going to say there is never a good reason for the tumblr user to feel the way they did and maybe if they were here they could explain themselves better. My experiences online though tell me they probably don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Go to images.google.com, type "steampunk," and take a look at what comes up. Random Internet Question Mark #7392 is just disappointed that Magic's "steampunk" plane doesn't look like that. That's probably a thing that he's super passionate about, which is fine (even if I think rote-steampunk is super lame). Obviously he's discounting all of the awesome steampunk-crossover stuff that's out there, and what Kaladesh is doing is way more interesting than what he's talking about (for a plethora of reasons) but it's lazy to call him "racist" rather than deconstruct the crux of his argument. What this guy is really guilty of is just wanting the plainest vanilla version of a thing. Some people just want vanilla ice cream all the time - that's not wrong, but I think Magic is better for putting a unique spin on things instead of just copy-pasting.

For example, that's one of the biggest criticisms of Theros that comes up here: they just copy-pasted Greek mythology into Magic, to the point where you literally pointed at a card and said "oh, that's the Prometheus card." It's actively a good thing that the style of Magic's "steampunk" plane isn't just what comes up on a Google image search. It's what makes me super excited to see the rest of the plane - because I don't already know what the rest of it is going to look like.

This guy is also missing that what he's looking for was really already covered through parts of Innistrad and a little bit of Ravnica, and that the source material that he's asking for is really more of a style guide than it is an inspiration for a plane, and that it's just not deep enough to inspire an entire block, and etc etc etc. Yes, it's kind of a dumb question (just not racist). I wonder if Maro put it on the Tumblr because he gets a lot of those kinds of question, or if he did it just because he thinks Japanese Gothic Horror sounds rad (which it does).

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

Go to images.google.com, type "steampunk," and take a look at what comes up. Random Internet Question Mark #7392 is just disappointed that Magic's "steampunk" plane doesn't look like that. That's probably a thing that he's super passionate about, which is fine (even if I think rote-steampunk is super lame). Obviously he's discounting all of the awesome steampunk-crossover stuff that's out there, and what Kaladesh is doing is way more interesting than what he's talking about (for a plethora of reasons) but it's lazy to call him "racist" rather than deconstruct the crux of his argument. What this guy is really guilty of is just wanting the plainest vanilla version of a thing. Some people just want vanilla ice cream all the time - that's not wrong, but I think Magic is better for putting a unique spin on things instead of just copy-pasting.

For example, that's one of the biggest criticisms of Theros that comes up here: they just copy-pasted Greek mythology into Magic, to the point where you literally pointed at a card and said "oh, that's the Prometheus card." It's actively a good thing that the style of Magic's "steampunk" plane isn't just what comes up on a Google image search. It's what makes me super excited to see the rest of the plane - because I don't already know what the rest of it is going to look like.

This guy is also missing that what he's looking for was really already covered through parts of Innistrad and a little bit of Ravnica, and that the source material that he's asking for is really more of a style guide than it is an inspiration for a plane, and that it's just not deep enough to inspire an entire block, and etc etc etc. Yes, it's kind of a dumb question (just not racist). I wonder if Maro put it on the Tumblr because he gets a lot of those kinds of question, or if he did it just because he thinks Japanese Gothic Horror sounds rad (which it does).

From what I can tell, the only thing you need to be steampunk is steam powered machinery. So it's 100% racism to suggest that the only steampunk that's "real steampunk" is exclusively based on Victorian England or 19th century Western Europe and the US.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Steampunk in India even makes total sense considering England's imperialism.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

From what I can tell, the only thing you need to be steampunk is steam powered machinery. So it's 100% racism to suggest that the only steampunk that's "real steampunk" is exclusively based on Victorian England or 19th century Western Europe and the US.

Words have meanings. This is demonstrably, 100%, not racist.

The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races. Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

Steampunk is a subgenre of science fiction or science fantasy that incorporates technology and aesthetic designs inspired by 19th-century industrial steam-powered machinery. Although its literary origins are sometimes associated with the cyberpunk genre, steampunk works are often set in an alternative history of the 19th century's British Victorian era or American "Wild West", in a post-apocalyptic future during which steam power has maintained mainstream usage, or in a fantasy world that similarly employs steam power. Steampunk may, therefore, be described as neo-Victorian. Steampunk perhaps most recognisably features anachronistic technologies or retro-futuristic inventions as people in the 19th century might have envisioned them, and is likewise rooted in the era's perspective on fashion, culture, architectural style, and art. Such technology may include fictional machines like those found in the works of H. G. Wells and Jules Verne, or the modern authors Philip Pullman, Scott Westerfeld, Stephen Hunt and China Miéville. Other examples of steampunk contain alternative history-style presentations of such technology as lighter-than-air airships, analogue computers, or such digital mechanical computers as Charles Babbage's Analytical Engine.

Steampunk may also incorporate additional elements from the genres of fantasy, horror, historical fiction, alternate history, or other branches of speculative fiction, making it often a hybrid genre. The first known appearance of the term steampunk was in 1987, though it now retroactively refers to many works of fiction created even as far back as the 1950s or 1960s.

Steampunk also refers to any of the artistic styles, clothing fashions, or subcultures, that have developed from the aesthetics of steampunk fiction, Victorian-era fiction, art nouveau design, and films from the mid-20th century. Various modern utilitarian objects have been modded by individual artisans into a pseudo-Victorian mechanical "steampunk" style, and a number of visual and musical artists have been described as steampunk.

You're not wrong to think the original question asker was being silly and a little closeminded with regards to creativity. He was not being racist.

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

Words have meanings. This is demonstrably, 100%, not racist.

So he's just demonstrating prejudice based on the geographical location they chose to base their fictional plane on. Gotcha.

 

[ultron87]

For side events GP Columbus next weekend has EMA drafts for $50 and SoI drafts are $20. The prizes are big enough to make the EV okay actually, but high roller drafts being the only option sucks. (And yeah, things at a PES event sucking seems expected.) I'd much prefer it to be cheaper with worse prizes since I'd rather do more drafts than have the chance to win more prizes. I suppose cheaper drafts mean they'd have to have more judges on sides.

I'll need to look at what local shops are offering that weekend. If somewhere has product for EMA drafts for reasonable amounts on Saturday might just not bother driving up.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I didn't find a single draft for EMA here. Sucks but I won't buy a box.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

So he's just demonstrating prejudice based on the geographical location they chose to base their fictional plane on. Gotcha.

He's saying that he's disappointed that this thing isn't the thing he wanted and is going to prevent them from making the thing he wanted in the future. It's not what he wanted stylistically, and he's using cultural references because that's how we describe vanilla steampunk. It's typical internet entitlement culture bullshit (waah waah why aren't you making this thing catered 100% to my interests), but calling it racism or prejudice misrepresents the issue and waters down true instances of racism and prejudice.

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

He's saying that he's disappointed that this thing isn't the thing he wanted and is going to prevent them from making the thing he wanted in the future. It's not what he wanted stylistically, and he's using cultural references because that's how we describe vanilla steampunk. It's typical internet entitlement culture bullshit (waah waah why aren't you making this thing catered 100% to my interests), but calling it racism or prejudice misrepresents the issue and waters down true instances of racism and prejudice.

It's not what he wanted stylistically because what he wanted is racist. Steampunk appears to be defined as "A genre of science fiction that has a historical setting and typically features steam-powered machinery rather than advanced technology". Nowhere in that definition do I see "i.e. one inspired by Victorian England, or at least 19th century Western Europe and U.S)".

This isn't the boy who cried wolf, we don't need to not call out the "little" examples of racism because nobody will recognise the "big" ones.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

It is definitely racism, whether it is malevolent or ignorant is another issue.

 

[WanderingWind]

It's not what he wanted stylistically because what he wanted is racist. Steampunk appears to be defined as "A genre of science fiction that has a historical setting and typically features steam-powered machinery rather than advanced technology". Nowhere in that definition do I see "i.e. one inspired by Victorian England, or at least 19th century Western Europe and U.S)".

This isn't the boy who cried wolf, we don't need to not call out the "little" examples of racism because nobody will recognise the "big" ones.

Nerds are fiercely devoted to genre tropes and while yeah, sometimes that has roots in sexism or racist, sometimes it also has its roots in just the universal human dislike of new things. Those things could be skin colors, of course. It could also just be a lack of familiar tropes. IE, total lack of creativity.

And to head off the other argument, everybody deserves a baseline level of attempted understanding. Maybe the dude is a super racist. There is nothing even remotely approaching proof in that short statement. All I see is a guy uncomfortable with deviations from tropes he's already an expert in.

 

[The Technomancer]

Nerds are fiercely devoted to genre tropes and while yeah, sometimes that has roots in sexism or racist, sometimes it also has its roots in just the universal human dislike of new things. Those things could be skin colors, of course. It could also just be a lack of familiar tropes. IE, total lack of creativity.

And to head off the other argument, everybody deserves a baseline level of attempted understanding. Maybe the dude is a super racist. There is nothing even remotely approaching proof in that short statement. All I see is a guy uncomfortable with deviations from tropes he's already an expert in.

I would be 100% with you if the follow up example wasn't "that would be like gothic horror in Japan!", which makes it clear that its the cultural transposition he has issue with. Is it horribly racist? Nah.

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

Nerds are fiercely devoted to genre tropes and while yeah, sometimes that has roots in sexism or racist, sometimes it also has its roots in just the universal human dislike of new things. Those things could be skin colors, of course. It could also just be a lack of familiar tropes. IE, total lack of creativity.

And to head off the other argument, everybody deserves a baseline level of attempted understanding. Maybe the dude is a super racist. There is nothing even remotely approaching proof in that short statement. All I see is a guy uncomfortable with deviations from tropes he's already an expert in.

His intentions don't make it any less racist tbh.

I would be 100% with you if the follow up example wasn't "that would be like gothic horror in Japan!", which makes it clear that its the cultural transposition he has issue with. Is it horribly racist? Nah.

Why does he have a problem with that cultural transposition but not with including the entirety of England (but not the British Empire), Western Europe and the United States?

 

[divisionbyzorro]

It's not what he wanted stylistically because what he wanted is racist. Steampunk appears to be defined as "A genre of science fiction that has a historical setting and typically features steam-powered machinery rather than advanced technology". Nowhere in that definition do I see "i.e. one inspired by Victorian England, or at least 19th century Western Europe and U.S)".

This isn't the boy who cried wolf, we don't need to not call out the "little" examples of racism because nobody will recognise the "big" ones.

First, I literally bolded it for you in the Wikipedia quote.

Second, it's dangerous and hostile to shut down discussion by throwing "racism" at things that don't need it. I'm not suggesting that every opinion has merit (far from it). But accusing racism to justify not having to engage with an opinion where the worst offense is just being creatively bankrupt is not appropriate.

Nerds are fiercely devoted to genre tropes and while yeah, sometimes that has roots in sexism or racist, sometimes it also has its roots in just the universal human dislike of new things. Those things could be skin colors, of course. It could also just be a lack of familiar tropes. IE, total lack of creativity.

And to head off the other argument, everybody deserves a baseline level of attempted understanding. Maybe the dude is a super racist. There is nothing even remotely approaching proof in that short statement. All I see is a guy uncomfortable with deviations from tropes he's already an expert in.

Thank you.

I would be 100% with you if the follow up example wasn't "that would be like gothic horror in Japan!", which makes it clear that its the cultural transposition he has issue with. Is it horribly racist? Nah.

I mean, do you want to get into that one too?

Gothic (adjective)

1. If or relating to the Goths or their extinct East Germanic language, which provides the earliest manuscript evidence of any Germanic language (4th–6th centuries AD).
2. Of or in the style of architecture prevalent in western Europe in the 12th–16th centuries, characterized by pointed arches, rib vaults, and flying buttresses, together with large windows and elaborate tracery.

So..."Japanese Gothic" is a strange juxtaposition. Not being able to see that it could be cool shows a lack of creativity, but he's not wrong to say it doesn't "make sense."

 

[jph139]

The problem is that "traditional" is almost always wedded to "super white." It doesn't always come from a hateful place, but it's no less harmful. Wanting to preserve the status quo almost always favors the majority at the expense of the minority.

I agree it's a problem to outright dismiss criticisms as racist and mock the guy, though. There's nothing that entrenches harmful opinions faster.

 

[WanderingWind]

I would be 100% with you if the follow up example wasn't "that would be like gothic horror in Japan!", which makes it clear that its the cultural transposition he has issue with. Is it horribly racist? Nah.

Yeah, that just feeds my point. The guy is a total Melvin and can't envision anything that hasn't been done to death. The vast, vast majority of steampunk has been at least influenced heavily by Victorian times. And you know, it's sort of in the name that "steam" is a traditional part of the trappings. Kaladesh has swapped that out for aether in the way that Dishonored did whale oil. Guess what, steampunk purists, the gormless gits that they are, have decided that setting isn't "real" steampunk either and dubbed it "whalepunk."

The problem is that "traditional" is almost always wedded to "super white." It doesn't always come from a hateful place, but it's no less harmful. Wanting to preserve the status quo almost always favors the majority at the expense of the minority.

The problem is that "almost" isn't always. Wanting to preserve the trappings - and not racial makeup - of a trope favors exactly nobody at the expense of exactly nobody. I mean, I looked long and hard for a real dog whistle and I'm not seeing it. Maybe the dude is a racist. But I prefer traditional chocolate chip cookies. I prefer traditional automobiles. I prefer traditional RPGs. None of those things are racial in their makeup and all of them have internal meaning to me. Unless we can divine the guy's personal checklist for what makes "traditional" steampunk, I don't see how throwing out "racist" is anything but a severe reach.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Yeah, that just feeds my point. The guy is a total Melvin and can't envision anything that hasn't been done to death. The vast, vast majority of steampunk has been at least influenced heavily by Victorian times. And you know, it's sort of in the name that "steam" is a traditional part of the trappings. Kaladesh has swapped that out for aether in the way that Dishonored did whale oil. Guess what, steampunk purists, the gormless gits that they are, have decided that setting isn't "real" steampunk either and dubbed it "whalepunk."

Wait, what? They...really do this? I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Here I thought Dishonored was as steampunk as it gets...

 

[WanderingWind]

Wait, what? They...really do this? I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Here I thought Dishonored was as steampunk as it gets...

Dawg, steampunk fandom has about as many fan waves as any legit movement. You have the Verne purists. Then you have the pulp purists, who think deriving stuff from Verne was okay. Then you have the resurgent in the late 90s aughts of all thing steampunky. Which then begot the mid 2005-20010 Hot Topic "slap goggles on a thing and its steampunk." I don't know where it's at now.

 

[The Technomancer]

Dawg, steampunk fandom has about as many fan waves as any legit movement. You have the Verne purists. Then you have the pulp purists, who think deriving stuff from Verne was okay. Then you have the resurgent in the late 90s aughts of all thing steampunky. Which then begot the mid 2005-20010 Hot Topic "slap goggles on a thing and its steampunk." I don't know where it's at now.

You have guys like me. I swear to god I'm a genuine steampunk hipster, its the one thing I legitimately say "I was into it before being cool ruined it"

Fucking

goggles

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

The problem is that "almost" isn't always. Wanting to preserve the trappings - and not racial makeup - of a trope favors exactly nobody at the expense of exactly nobody. I mean, I looked long and hard for a real dog whistle and I'm not seeing it. Maybe the dude is a racist. But I prefer traditional chocolate chip cookies. I prefer traditional automobiles. I prefer traditional RPGs. None of those things are racial in their makeup and all of them have internal meaning to me. Unless we can divine the guy's personal checklist for what makes "traditional" steampunk, I don't see how throwing out "racist" is anything but a severe reach.

subbak asked: Every time you refer to Kaladesh as steampunk, I am saddened because it means we'll never see a real steampunk plane (i.e. one inspired by Victorian England, or at least 19th century Western Europe and U.S). Steampunk with an India-based culture (as seen in the architecture and clothing) makes as much sense as gothic horror in a Japan-based culture. There's a reason Innistrad looks German and not Japanese, why did you not apply the same logic to Kaladesh?

Severe reach.

First, I literally bolded it for you in the Wikipedia quote.

Second, it's dangerous and hostile to shut down discussion by throwing "racism" at things that don't need it. I'm not suggesting that every opinion has merit (far from it). But accusing racism to justify not having to engage with an opinion where the worst offense is just being creatively bankrupt is not appropriate.

Steampunk is a subgenre of science fiction or science fantasy that incorporates technology and aesthetic designs inspired by 19th-century industrial steam-powered machinery. Although its literary origins are sometimes associated with the cyberpunk genre, steampunk works are often set in an alternative history of the 19th century's British Victorian era or American "Wild West", in a post-apocalyptic future during which steam power has maintained mainstream usage, or in a fantasy world that similarly employs steam power. Steampunk may, therefore, be described as neo-Victorian.

Just so we're clear, the Victorian era refers to a period of time in British history, I guess you could see that as "inspired by Victorian England, or at least 19th century Western Europe and U.S" but you'd be ignoring vast swathes of the British Empire.

Exactly how is pointing out a racist view shutting down discussion?

The problem is that "traditional" is almost always wedded to "super white." It doesn't always come from a hateful place, but it's no less harmful. Wanting to preserve the status quo almost always favors the majority at the expense of the minority.

I agree it's a problem to outright dismiss criticisms as racist and mock the guy, though. There's nothing that entrenches harmful opinions faster.

Nobody (in here at least) appears to be mocking the guy and I agree, it's probably not from a hateful place. However, this doesn't make it any less racist and not confronting it will just lead it to keep happening.

 

[WanderingWind]

And simply repeating things and bolding text doesn't make it true or any less ridiculous. But, once a person has decided a guy is racist, we're on some bitch eating crackers shit and there is no changing anybody's mind.

You have guys like me. I swear to god I'm a genuine steampunk hipster, its the one thing I legitimately say "I was into it before being cool ruined it"

Fucking

goggles

Well, the real hipsters are like, super dead. Verne was popular in his time and originated the genre. Yeah, put a bird goggles on something and voila, steampunk annoyed me for a while. We can thank Arcanum for that phase.

 

[OnPoint]

And simply repeating things and bolding text doesn't make it true or any less ridiculous. But, once a person has decided a guy is racist, we're on some bitch eating crackers shit and there is no changing anybody's mind.

I lol'd at the bolded. But it's true. It's like trying to argue with someone who disagrees with the Splinter Twin ban. No matter what you say, no matter how logical the argument is or how backed up with stats it is or what the metagame looks like post-ban, if you agree with the ban, you're wrong.

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

And simply repeating things and bolding text doesn't make it true or any less ridiculous. But, once a person has decided a guy is racist, we're on some bitch eating crackers shit and there is no changing anybody's mind.

So, despite him listing his criteria, we can never know what they are. Gotcha.

Last I checked, the only thing I called racist was his criteria.

 

[WanderingWind]

So, despite him listing his criteria, we can never know what they are. Gotcha.

Last I checked, the only thing I called racist was his criteria.

So, despite you trying this tactic before and it failing, you're still going to keep using it. Gotcha.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I lol'd at the bolded. But it's true. It's like trying to argue with someone who disagrees with the Splinter Twin ban. No matter what you say, no matter how logical the argument is or how backed up with stats it is or what the metagame looks like post-ban, if you agree with the ban, you're wrong.

I swear if you say another shitty thing about Splinter Twin I will destroy you.

Spoiler

No, obviously, I'm kidding. I love you guys. My disagreement with the ban is purely philosophical, not practical. I can't dispute that Modern is better now. (Damn, it actually kind of pains me to say that)

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

So, despite you trying this tactic before and it failing, you're still going to keep using it. Gotcha.

Which tactic is that? Seriously, what did I say that was untrue or ridiculous in that post?

 

[WanderingWind]

Which tactic is that? Seriously, what did I say that was untrue or ridiculous in that post?

So he's just demonstrating prejudice based on the geographical location they chose to base their fictional plane on. Gotcha.

So, despite him listing his criteria, we can never know what they are. Gotcha.

You can't just invent questions based on your own interpretations, then answer those self-asked question to make a point. Everybody already assumes you agree with your own position.

 

[Yeef]

Sam Stoddard's article on how R&D views Modern.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/latest-developments/modern-musings-2016-06-03

 

[WanderingWind]

Sam Stoddard's article on how R&D views Modern.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/latest-developments/modern-musings-2016-06-03

Interesting bits to me:

For example, if you really like playing the Mono-White Humans deck in Standard, you can play that same deck in Modern, and get to add more powerful lands, Champion of the Parish, and Path to Exile for removal.

For the foreseeable future, cards will only become legal in Modern by coming through Standard.

Modern is as healthy as it has ever been, and I hope that by keeping the strategy we've been going with for a while, we can ensure the format will remain healthy.

 

[Xis]

His complaint is more complex than "oh no, there's brown people in my zepplins". This isn't about simple presence/absence of minorities; the chosen setting changes the flavor immensely.

He is really into one genre setting (steampunk), but Kaladesh is drawing from (at least) two inspirations; steampunk and Indian culture. The Indian culture part isn't a side bit; it's going to be a huge influence on every bit of the design; names, clothes, architecture, creature types, even land arts.

Food analogy: he just wanted peanut butter, but is getting peanut butter and jelly. I'd say his motivations are at least a little narrow-minded, but they aren't necessarily racist. (This analogy is a little weak becase it treats a European setting as having "no flavor" but whatever).

(Personally, I find steampunk super cliche. I'm also a little jaded with traditional western fantasy; I'm really looking forward to the set because it is based in pseudo-India).

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

EDIT: This is getting us nowhere. I'm going to leave my final position here and (from me anyway) that'll be the end of it.

I don't know this person. I don't know what goes through their head. I can't speak to whether they, personally are consciously racist or not. None of that matters because that's not the problem. The problem is that the view being espoused about what is and isn't "real" steampunk is racist.

 

["God's Beard!"]

So I finally got all my old DCI numbers combined and it's pretty fun to look over my history. I've only played competitively since the end of 2013, and I stopped going to weekly lgs tournaments like FNM 11 months ago, but I was mostly going in the middle of the week anyway. So I was only going to shops for less than two years and in that time I went from "dude that shows up with a nonsense mill deck at FNM" to a full-blown PTQ grinder tryhard.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";205523973]So I finally got all my old DCI numbers combined and it's pretty fun to look over my history. I've only played competitively since the end of 2013, and I stopped going to weekly lgs tournaments like FNM 11 months ago, but I was mostly going in the middle of the week anyway. So I was only going to shops for less than two years and in that time I went from "dude that shows up with a nonsense mill deck at FNM" to a full-blown PTQ grinder tryhard.[/QUOTE]

I actually remember when wacky rainbow beard guy started showing up in this thread and being a total scrub. Then suddenly (seemingly from nowhere) he was one of the best players in the thread. I've actually been quite impressed, to tell the truth.

 

[OnPoint]

I swear if you say another shitty thing about Splinter Twin I will destroy you.

Spoiler

No, obviously, I'm kidding. I love you guys. My disagreement with the ban is purely philosophical, not practical. I can't dispute that Modern is better now. (Damn, it actually kind of pains me to say that)

<3 u 2 bb

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

His complaint is more complex than "oh no, there's brown people in my zepplins". This isn't about simple presence/absence of minorities; the chosen setting changes the flavor immensely.

He is really into one genre setting (steampunk), but Kaladesh is drawing from (at least) two inspirations; steampunk and Indian culture. The Indian culture part isn't a side bit; it's going to be a huge influence on every bit of the design; names, clothes, architecture, creature types, even land arts.

Food analogy: he just wanted peanut butter, but is getting peanut butter and jelly. I'd say his motivations are at least a little narrow-minded, but they aren't necessarilya racist.

(Personally, I find steampunk super cliche. I'm also a little jaded with traditional western fantasy; I'm really looking forward to the set because it is based in pseudo-India).

weird analogy.

It's more like he wanted a peanut butter sandwich and then complained it came on whole bread instead of toast.

 

[WanderingWind]

So many boxes, GB don't need to buy a house.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I actually remember when wacky rainbow beard guy started showing up in this thread and being a total scrub. Then suddenly (seemingly from nowhere) he was one of the best players in the thread. I've actually been quite impressed, to tell the truth.

I'm pretty sure he just showed up to a store and said "how do I play" and then won a box.

 

[The Technomancer]

EDIT: Wrong thread

 

[Yeef]

When Saheeli was first revealed, I thought the similarities to Symmettra from Overwatch was an interesting coincidence. They feel like alternate interpretations of the same character (though, that may change when we get to know more about Saheeli). I don't know much about Indian culture, so I'm not sure if they're both evoking something from a shared source or if it's pure coincidence.