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[kirblar]

See also: "Why don't they make Pokemon MMO for adults!"

 

[Ashodin]

I don't care if they go back to Ravnica a hundred times. Boros Legion for life

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

The Guilds are never not going to be a part of Ravnica. The Guild symbology is infinitely marketable, as evidenced from the amount of ancillary products WotC sold using them. It also provides that fourth wall hook, in that players self-identify with a guild and bring that with them into the game. It's not just with the casual players either, as we saw players like Brad Nelson go all in with his particular guild.

You're falling into what I like to call the Batman fatigue syndrome. People love Batman. So much so, that they tend to overdose on him and then blame the character for being stale after a certain point. They uphold big shakeups to the continuity like Dick Grayson being Batman and chastise DC for not making those changes permanent. After all, if they don't, they're just repeating old stories, letter for letter, right?

The problem there should be obvious. Unless you're an immortal vampire nerd, you came into loving Batman as Bruce Wayne, decades after his inception. The character has had a ton of ups and downs, but constants have normally remained. Why? Because those constants are compelling. They're what makes the character work. Yes, you may be sick of the thousandth Bruce Wayne as Batman fighting the Joker story, but you hold no special rights to the character. Somewhere, some kid is discovering Batman for the first time, and is being enthralled, much in the same way fans have for a century, give or take.

The same applies to something with such a strong visual, thematic and game-ready set of properties as Ravnica. The guilds are awesome for new players. They're awesome for many old players, as well. If you're sick of them, well, that's definitely understandable. But if they space out Return to Return to Ravnica enough, there will be a whole new generation of players discovering these things for the first time. And for them, being able to identify and play as a Gruul tribesman or a Orzhov cleric will be fucking awesome.

Nothing stops Wizards from exploring this in a new setting instead of retreading the same same setting over and over, in fact Wizards has been doing so since Mirrodin Besieged IIRC where they let you chooses between Phyrexia and Mirran.

Who says people couldn't identify with Atarka more than Gruul (as a RG player at the time of CoG Gruul was dreadful), the Wedges are also much more fleshed out and identifiable than Shards were. A new generation of players might identify with Jeskai more than Izzet and/or Boros.

The Batman talk is more or less senseless gibberish to me since I'm not invested in that but even in those kind of stories I'm always more for continuing a story and if need be ending it than redoing it over and over. Nothing stops DC but themselves from inventing new characters or giving existing characters the limelight to capture that magic in a new generation. Also unlike MTG Batman comics can be reread. I have some collection of some old ones, the ones with him and Robin sharing a bed IIRC.

I started reading Marvel last summer and Spider-Gwen and Silk releases make me much more excited than either Spiderman and Iron Man (that's all the ones I read) and I didn't read Marvel as a kid but Lucky Lukes and Asterix.

See also: "Why don't they make Pokemon MMO for adults!"

I never wanted that, I just wish they'd make the whole game doubles considering that's the officially supported competitive mode and thereby where the balancing goes. Also make it a bit more challenging again, or include a more challenging mode. I remember as a kid actually going out and training my pokemon because I'd get wrecked by arena leaders. Lastly do away with the IV complexity and just show the unique values.

PS: Owen cheated in the 15th round game 2 at SCG, he resolved a Rally with a Catacomb Sifter already in play but treated the sifter as if Rally brought it back giving him a scion token. He deceptively placed it even with all the other creatures on the stack instead of separately, so might have been intentional even, he had the game in the bag either way so idk.

 

[WanderingWind]

"Nonsense gibberish." What a tool.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

"Nonsense gibberish." What a tool.

I love you too

I don't care if they go back to Ravnica a hundred times. Boros Legion for life

Boros was awesome. Think you're dead, swing with everything, win. Jeskai it is though for me considering I went from Boros to Izzet between RAV and RTR prereleases.

 

[traveler]

I'd still rather see them get a plane they got wrong right, than attempt to better a plane they already did well and fail. If I could nominate any planes for return, I'd pick Kamigawa and Lorwyn, not that I disliked Lorwyn the first go round.

 

[Ashodin]

The Guilds are something they won't do away with, but they can setup more interesting "storylines" within them and focus on a couple of guilds a block, with token appearances by the other ones, to emphasize a narrative.

 

[WanderingWind]

I'd still rather see them get a plane they got wrong right, than attempt to better a plane they already did well and fail. If I could nominate any planes for return, I'd pick Kamigawa and Lorwyn, not that I disliked Lorwyn the first go round.

It's so depressing to me that Lorwyn continues to score so low among fans. Even the recent impromptu polls MaRo did on Twitter - for what they're worth - Lorwyn scored pretty low. Fairy tale world did alright, but still lower than I had hoped. The fanbase loves their dark 'n gritty. I'd love to go back to Lorwyn, if they kept the same aesthetic, but I don't think we'll ever go back.

I love you too

These type of responses aren't as witty or biting as you imagine them to be.

 

[kirblar]

The problem with Lorwyn is that it's too Juvenile, and the problem with Shadowmoor is that Fairy Tale World is vastly more interesting to the playerbase.

Kamigawa can get redeemed, you just need to evolve it, taking advantage of the time gap in storytelling.

 

[siddx]

I was out of magic during Lowryn and it was always one of the sets I missed that I regretted missing because it seemed so interesting.

On a side note, can anyone who plays MTGO clarify the redemption policy? If you collect all cards in a set, you can redeem them for paper cards for a fee? But there is a time limit? So after a certain amount of time you can't redeem your digital cards for paper ones anymore? And what if you have two sets worth of cards, will they redeem them twice? How difficult is it to collect a set of cads in MTGO?
It's become more difficult for me to play mtg in recent years and I've always considered MTGO but if I ever cash out I'd hate to have a bunch of cards online just sitting there.



Also, I haven't been following SOI very closely, anyone think it's worth getting multiple boxes? Last set I did that for was the original innistrad. Value on this one seems high enough to make 3 boxes or so worth it (keep in mind I love opening boosters) but I've been burned before (invasion block, alara block, kamigawa block).

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

It's so depressing to me that Lorwyn continues to score so low among fans. Even the recent impromptu polls MaRo did on Twitter - for what they're worth - Lorwyn scored pretty low. Fairy tale world did alright, but still lower than I had hoped. The fanbase loves their dark 'n gritty. I'd love to go back to Lorwyn, if they kept the same aesthetic, but I don't think we'll ever go back.

These type of responses aren't as witty or biting as you imagine them to be.

Who says I was being facetious? Dunno what you expected with that kinda response. I didn't call batman nonsense or gibberish, just that these words mean nothing to me.

I love Lorwyn, mellow on Morningtide and annoyed what happened to merrow in Shadowmoor.

 

[WanderingWind]

The problem with Lorwyn is that it's too Juvenile, and the problem with Shadowmoor is that Fairy Tale World is vastly more interesting to the playerbase.

Kamigawa can get redeemed, you just need to evolve it, taking advantage of the time gap in storytelling.

No rat ninjas. Drop the ridiculous crap, get rid of the legendary mistake and I think fans would respond to Kamigawa. I personally don't like the setting, but hey. With the two block rotation, I'd like to see at least one set where a plane isn't as grim and serious as possible, but that clearly doesn't test well.

Also, I haven't been following SOI very closely, anyone think it's worth getting multiple boxes? Last set I did that for was the original innistrad. Value on this one seems high enough to make 3 boxes or so worth it (keep in mind I love opening boosters) but I've been burned before (invasion block, alara block, kamigawa block).

If you love opening boosters, I can't think of a better set. But, I'm biased as the last time I went all in was also Innistrad. I'm going to do it again. And yes, I understand it's dumb. I've preordered the mythics I want to build with. This is just my round about way of getting commons/uncommons and kitchen table drafting.

 

[Ashodin]

Nah "legendary matters" is something they could do right and is basically what people think of with the set.

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

Very good card, plays really well with Prairie Stream. It's actually pretty good with Thing in the Ice, really. There's a reasonable possibility you won't actually hit your own with it.

I see tentacles...

EDIT: Also, that flavour torpedoes my idea about Nahiri using the moon.

Spoiler

Or does it?

 

[WanderingWind]

Nah "legendary matters" is something they could do right and is basically what people think of with the set.

Kamigawa wasn't just "legendary matters" though. Everybody involved with it has gone on record like, elevnty billion times in calling the overuse of mythics a mistake. I didn't play during that time period, so I don't know exactly what the deal is, but considering WotC has had a scorched earth policy when it comes to mistakes, I'd be surprised to see it return. I'm guessing the legendary rule got in the way of deck construction too much, from what they've said, but I don't know if it was specifically limited or constructed or both.

 

[kirblar]

Nah "legendary matters" is something they could do right and is basically what people think of with the set.

Champtions block is retroactively beloved because of EDH.

The legendary stuff is fucking terrible as a set theme.

 

[traveler]

Kamigawa wasn't just about legends though, and there's nothing inherently more suited to legends flavor wise about it than other planes they've done like, say, Theros.

Samurai, ninja, spirits- these can all be done better, and you can also emphasize heroes without forcing legends everywhere. Arcane can go to the same graveyard as dredge and affinity, two terribly broken mechanics that came from sets that both got returns.

All I'm really saying is that the number of ways you can interpret the flavor of a plane is so wide open that it seems absurd to think Kamigawa is just inherently bad. And, when it comes to planes, they're mostly window dressing to me, so I'd rather have planes that feel grounded and coherent, which I can actually enjoy, like Kamigawa and Lorwyn than the mismash of fantasy tropes and influences that planes like Zendikar, Alara, and, to a lesser extent, Ravnica feature.

 

[Ashodin]

Ninjutsu is an amazing mechanic

 

[Crocodile]

From Magic Europe Twitter

I don't like how the formatting for these cards are all over the place. Fonts are different sizes, some have flavor text and some don't, spacing of RG land is weird compared to others without flavor text, etc.

 

[The Technomancer]

Well I like those

 

[Angry Grimace]

IDK what these are called, but let's just go with "handlands." (lol) Edit: I went to reddit and like 5 dudes already came up with this and it rhymes, I bet you that sticks haha.

I don't hate the design - these are really close to checklands in how they work, except slightly worse (the thing they seem to have fixed with these over the Battlelands is that they get worse as topdecks, not better because you are less likely to have stuff in your hand, and it has an interesting interplay with Battlelands because playing these untapped makes your battlelands worse if you draw one and vice versa).

I'm disappointed to see another allied cycle, but it makes sense given enemy colors have both the manlands and the painlands), but still its a little weird because the interplay Battlelands and these, uh, Handlands can come into play untapped an awful lot of the time whereas the enemy ones either do a lot of damage to you or just straight up are taplands.

 

[Santiako]

Those are some boring but neat cards.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I don't get why there's another allied color cycle.

I don't hate the design - these are really close to checklands in how they work, except slightly worse. The thing they seem to have fixed with these over the Battlelands is that they get worse as topdecks, not better. I mean, I figured it would be an allied cycle (because enemy colors have both the manlands and the painlands), but still its a little weird because the interplay Battlelands and these, uh, Handlands can come into play untapped an awful lot of the time.

This, I was looking forward to some new cheap enemy none cipt colour lands for some decks.

 

[Angry Grimace]

This, I was looking forward to some new cheap enemy none cipt colour lands for some decks.

Well I already walked that one back: I know exactly WHY they are allied (see above), I'm just annoyed at the fact we're adding yet another half-cycle. I just want them to fucking put in the enemy Scarslands.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Well I already walked that one back: I know exactly WHY they are allied (see above), I'm just annoyed at the fact we're adding yet another half-cycle. I just want them to fucking put in the enemy Scarslands.

One and the same.

 

[Angry Grimace]

These don't seem conducive at all to playing three colors as far as I can tell.

 

[Ashodin]

These don't seem conducive at all to playing three colors as far as I can tell.

fucking freaking out here

 

[The Technomancer]

God the inconsistent formatting is driving me nuts on those as well

Set ruined

 

[Firemind]

Boros is the best fucking guild and don't you forget it

I don't care if they go back to Ravnica a hundred times. Boros Legion for life

Can Boros do this?

(I'm having way too much fun with Ravnica flashback drafts. Bring on Guildpact.)

 

[divisionbyzorro]

God the inconsistent formatting is driving me nuts on those as well

Set ruined

Why do only two of them have flavor text? Agh!

 

[Haines]

Engulf the shore is kind of tough to guess how good it will be in limited but the flexibility and low mana cost for big tempo probably makes it good. ESP if you are the one with etb effects

Those lands are awesome. I hate playing those lands tapped so this makes me happy!

 

[Imperfected]

Why do only two of them have flavor text? Agh!

The best part is how completely perfunctory the flavor text is. "Shit's real spooky."

I never would have realized the port town has ghostly fog from the fog-ghost dead center in the frame, or that something weird happened in the ruins from the fact that it's blatantly an impossible space. I'm glad I have the writers to help me navigate through what's happening on these cards!

 

[WanderingWind]

I like those lands quite a bit. Not sure where they fit, but their condition seems easy to satisfy in a 2-color deck. Which is good. Down with wedges.

 

[Santiako]

Convene the Lineage {1B}
Enchantment - Uncommon
{1}, Discard a card: Put a 1/1 black Vampire Knight token with lifelink onto the battlefield. Activate this ability only once per turn.
In response to Sorin's appeal, Olivia Voldaren resorted to the full power of her lineage, summoning all members to Fortress Lurenbraum.

Repeatable source of creatures and discard? Yes please.

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

Convene the Lineage {1B}
Enchantment - Uncommon
{1}, Discard a card: Put a 1/1 black Vampire Knight token with lifelink onto the battlefield. Activate this ability only once per turn.
In response to Sorin's appeal, Olivia Voldaren resorted to the full power of her lineage, summoning all members to Fortress Lurenbraum.

Repeatable source of creatures and discard? Yes please.

That's interesting... Sorin, Pariah No More?

 

[Firemind]

A more boring Zombie Infestation. Yawn.

 

[kirblar]

A more boring Zombie Infestation. Yawn.

Z I is much less efficient.

 

[Firemind]

Z I is much less efficient.

It also has much more combo potential. Remember Ichorid? Those were the days.

 

[OnPoint]

I like these Handlands, and I like the name a lot.

 

[G.ZZZ]

I don't see why it needed the once per turn limitation given that it already cost mana, like this it's probably just worse than ZI. Lifelink on the tokens is nice but can't carry a card by itself.

Still waiting for another card to make my pack rat decks the best deck in legacy. Asylum visitor made us T1.5 , just need the last push!

 

[WanderingWind]

The modern manabase is pretty much set. We ain't ever getting anything better than shocklands and fetches. Even so, a part of me thinks the RG one is borderline playable in Atarka Burn. Borderline, but not quite there.

 

[The Technomancer]

I don't see why it needed the once per turn limitation given that it already cost mana, like this it's probably just worse than ZI. Lifelink on the tokens is nice but can't carry a card by itself.

Still waiting for another card to make my pack rat decks the best deck in legacy. Asylum visitor made us T1.5 , just need the last push!

Once per turn might be more about madness than anything else

 

[Firemind]

The modern manabase is pretty much set. We ain't ever getting anything better than shocklands and fetches. Even so, a part of me thinks the RG one is borderline playable in Atarka Burn. Borderline, but not quite there.

Atarka Burn would play R/G Horizon Canopy.

 

[DrArchon]

"Handlands" has a really nice ring to it. Cards aren't too bad either, but then again I love two color decks. They aren't exactly helpful for 3+ color ones. Hope they won't end up costing an arm and a leg like other rare lands.

I don't see why it needed the once per turn limitation given that it already cost mana, like this it's probably just worse than ZI. Lifelink on the tokens is nice but can't carry a card by itself.

Should've either dropped the mana cost or the once per turn limit imo. I mean, this card is gonna be a bastard to deal with in limited obviously, with or without Madness cards, but there's little chance of it seeing competitive play from what I can see.

 

[kirblar]

Once per turn might be more about madness than anything else

They learned from their 1W goof in FRF. EOT make an army isn't really interesting.

 

[Simply Sarah]

So, uh, when are we actually going to see the payoff for all the discarding? Right now it almost feels like "Make Clues! Draw cards! Then discard them!" There have been some nice Delirium options but that only gets value from dumping cards up to a point while Madness hasn't really shown me enough to justify heavy self discard so far. I get that Madness isn't a mechanic to print lightly but still.

 

[kirblar]

So, uh, when are we actually going to see the payoff for all the discarding? Right now it almost feels like "Make Clues! Draw cards! Then discard them!" There have been some nice Delirium options but that only gets value from dumping cards up to a point while Madness hasn't really shown me enough to justify heavy self discard so far. I get that Madness isn't a mechanic to print lightly but still.

Madness is exclusively a B/R vampires thing so far, permanent-wise. All the payoff critters are there and there's a very obvious deck.

 

[The Technomancer]

I feel like we're missing some crucial cards for how Delirium is going to work in Limited. There need to be more artifacts and enchantments that sac for some effect in colors like blue, green and white

 

[The Technomancer]

These seem fine

 

[OnPoint]

I find the design of these handlands interesting and frightening.

I sort of like how the design prioritizes you keeping a land in hand, but if you get into a late-game situation where you need more mana (or god forbid, are in a top-deck war) and your hand is empty these lands become the worst type of top-decks ever (though picking up any land in a top-deck war is usually bad news).

These are really odd and super interesting.