I got the gold dust then ran out of time to do what I needed to with it. Doh.
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Majora's Mask 3D |OT| Remakes are a Nice Thing to Have Heh, heh
- Thread starter Kriken
- Start date
MetalGuardian
Banned
If you are recreating the timeline though, then what happens to the original version of the timeline? Even if the characters from, say, your very first cycle as Deku Link aren't crushed by the moon, the very idea of that timeline being overwritten means the versions of those characters would be erased. The end is the same.
I think the first cycle as Deku Link is the best example of this - think of it this way: In the first cycle you experience, the world of Termina only has Deku Link in it. The second cycle, however, has human Link. So, then, what happened to the first cycle that ONLY had Deku Link in it? Did it never exist? Surely not, because Link is carrying an item - the Ocarina - FROM that version of Termina.
So either that version of Termina that ONLY had Deku Link in it either ceased to exist after Link got the Ocarina and travelled back in time (meaning all of the characters were, perhaps mercifully, erased into oblivion), or that Termina was a different branching multiverse that was crushed beneath the moon.
Think of the first cycle from Skull Kid's perspective. He sees a grubby Deku Scrub ascend the tower at midnight. He gets shot with a bubble and drops the Ocarina.
Then what?
He watches Deku Link bust out his pipes and go back in time.
What are the options for what happens to Skull Kid here? He either sees Deku Link disappear before his eyes (the idea I subscribe to), or he (and the world around him) disappears forever and is reborn into the new version of Termina that Link is now in, on the first day.
Because of all this, it seems very likely to me that everyone dies everytime you play the Song of Time.
I did the same thing, lol. The only tricky part is the timing, it's likely you need to rebeat Goht on a fresh cycle. I finished the dungeon right at the dawn of the second day and forgot it took 2 full days for the other part.
There's a forest in the swamp to visit before you go to the palace.
Did you not meet with Koume and Kotake?
You need to find Koume immobilized in the forest and then talk to Kotake.
The perfect Dark
Banned
I'm playing it for the first time and it's already my favorite Zelda game. The amount of side quests, the sad story, the incredible atmosphere, the fantastic soundtrack and the time-mechanic.....it's awesome.
There is a lot of backtracking and repetition though...but that's part of the gamplay.
Gurgelhals
Member
You probably need to dedicate a full cycle to do the gold dust sidequest anway. You could, theoretically, do Snowhead, rewind at the boss and immediately go and beat the boss at the start of the new cycle. I think that's pointless though, because the Snowhead boss is fairly easy and beating it a second time is no big deal at all. Having to win the damned Goron race again is an entirely different matter though :-/
YianGaruga
Banned
I played and finished it for the first time and I'm extremely impressed with it. I think I have a much higher appreciation for the game now than if I would have played it as a kid, because I can see how extremely well everything is designed around the time mechanic. Most of the changes from the N64 game seem rather minor so I doubt those influenced my opinion a lot, but I do appreciate that things were apparently streamlined a bit.
I have to admit that all these years I had this weird prejudice and thought MM looked like nothing more than a weird mod for OOT with a confusing time mechanic. I was so wrong.
I'm not sure I'm following what you're saying. What I mean is the timeline is recreated from the start of the three days onward. It doesn't eliminate what came before. It ultimately just rewrites the future, not the present or past.
Yup my first time too and really loving it.
Yeah having to re do some things is a little tedious, but they don't seem to annoy me as much as I thought.
I think what I really appreciate is how Termina overall isn't a large place, yet still has distinctly themed areas that are all wonderful. Because the world is pretty small, it's easy to memorise most place. So when you start to solve later side quests because of how you've familiarised yourself with where to go from earlier in the game, it's just a really satisfying and joyful feeling to have.
The song of soaring is a godsend too.
Rest
All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
Does anybody ever use Bombchus for anything? They reduced the number of items from OoT, but still left Bombchus in, and I can't really figure out why. Beside mini games, what are they for?
Same here. I remember it being a pain in the ass and almost running out of time while doing it, but this time it was really easy. I don't know if I'm just better at video games or if they changed something about it.
Termina is small, but it doesn't seem that way. I would attribute this to the strong atmosphere each area has, and the density of detail per capita. Also, the way each place changes in look and feel from day to day and night to night is really special.
On a side note, if you guys love the look and feel of MM3D, please visit my thread on "colorful darkness", which highlights games that evoke a similar flavor.
The perfect Dark
Banned
It's like "Groundhog day". Everytime you turn back the hands of time you'll create an alternative "universe" and the "current Termina" gets destroyed (everyone dies). Imo....^^
Rest
All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
You're assuming that time isn't just literally reversed while Link plays the song. We already know Link can hold on to some items, he gets to keep his clothes after all. There are no multiples as I see it, the same people are just reversed, and go backward for a while. Link can hold on to items that he needs, and stop them from reverting, but some things he lets go of because it would take effort to hold on to each item as he goes back. He has to be picky and conserve his energy.
The real question is why Link never sleeps.
Gurgelhals
Member
That was basically my first impression as well. Coming directly from Ocarina of Time, the game really managed to weird me out. What was that weird town where everybody looked the same as the NPCs in OoT? What was the deal with being a Deku Shrub and would I be one for the entire game (because that would definitely suck!)? Why didn't those stupid guards let me leave town already? And what was the deal with that time limit?
It didn't get better after the initial cycle (wich I almost failed as well because of that stupid hide and seek game). I still remember doing the entire Woodfall main questline in one single and incredibly stressful cycle (I didn't know about the inverted song of time, of course) and I even managed to beat that stupid Deku butler minigame in the nick of time. Then I had to rewind time and when I realised that this would undo everything that I had just achieved, I quit in frustration. It was all so confusing.
There's no actual explanation of how the song of time work in the game. So, if this is true or not depends on your interpretation of multiverse and/or time travel.
That theory really worries, though. Sometimes I think about how I could just be leaving everyone in that version of Termina to die when I play the song of time. This game is too real, man.
WrenchNinja
Member
Wouldn't Skullkid still have the Ocarina?
Solid SOAP
Member
I managed to be able to beat the temple and get the gilded sword all in one go
felt super satisfying to do it without any time cheats. The element of time as a gameplay facet makes this one of the most replayable Zeldas ever for me.I really doubt the author's intent was that you're dooming multiple Terminas, especially since that would go against your goal as the hero, if you're just creating new Terminas that you then leave to be destroyed.
I really think you're just reversing time, undoing what you just did (except for the items obtained) and returning to the start of the three days. It's only one timeline, and you're just traveling forward and backward in it, again and again, until arriving at the sequence of events you want.
I really think you're just reversing time, undoing what you just did (except for the items obtained) and returning to the start of the three days. It's only one timeline, and you're just traveling forward and backward in it, again and again, until arriving at the sequence of events you want.
It seems clear that certain items the ocarina, the dungeon items, the masks are magical and transcend time and space, hence they can travel with you. And once you have them, no one else can have them, so they simply don't appear when you rewind the clock.
victreeb3l
Member
Just got the Goron Mask. Man this game is amazing.
My heart just goes out to Young Link. I never bothered to pay attention before but man Nintendo really gave this character a shitty ass life :/
My heart just goes out to Young Link. I never bothered to pay attention before but man Nintendo really gave this character a shitty ass life :/
YianGaruga
Banned
I don't see it as you traveling back in time, but you reversing time, that's why your stock of items is depleted (except for certain items and masks because magic). I don't think it's supposed to be THAT dark.
Wreck-It Ralph
Member
The new double song of time fixes my first major issue with the original.
The new save statues fix my second major issue.
And the new bomber's notebook fixes my third major issue.
So I'm gonna say the changes they made are pretty great so far.
The new save statues fix my second major issue.
And the new bomber's notebook fixes my third major issue.
So I'm gonna say the changes they made are pretty great so far.
The perfect Dark
Banned
Yeah, it's very sad. If you would "rewind" time you wouldn't keep your important items....so you're creating an alternative universe. That's just my opinion of course. Like in "Groundhog day" you keep all your memories and you're trying to help everyone in a limited time frame.
I think if you're just going back in time it wouldn't explain how some of the items you own disappear from the world because they're in your possession. The creating a separate reality thing kinda appeals to me in a dark way, because every character in game is going to be ignorant of this, thinking the world was saved. It's purely fan theory as there's no canonical explanation for the Song of Time, though. But If Aonuma was asked about this, I'd seriously doubt he'd say that everyone in Termina dies every time you play the song of time. lol
WrenchNinja
Member
But the whole reason you chase after him and end up in Termina is that he steals the Ocarina and Epona. If you have it already, then how did events transpire? Just with Epona's theft?
Go to miiverse
Just go to the Home Menu at any time, then go to Miiverse, and then when you post a message, click the screen icon in the upper right-hand corner, and choose which screenshot you want the upper screen or the lower screen. Also note that it only records in 3D if you have 3D on when you go to the Home Menu.
SweetDonuts
Member
I'd like to know too. Whenever I try to take a screenshot I end up opening the 3DS camera and thinking ?? so I just go back to playing.
*(Thanks Neiteio)
Yeah, I've never thought of it any other way.
He still stole your ocarina and Epona. So you still chased him there over those items. But since they transcend space-time, once you retrieve them, they're no longer in Skull Kid's possession, where the events in Termina are concerned. It doesn't affect what led up to Termina.
Time is only reversed back to the second you entered Clock Town. Link only had his stuff stolen once. It's only the world around which is affected by the song of time.
You can do that, now!?
Yeah. Time travel always gets murky with this type of stuff.
But it's super dark when you think of it imagining the impact of the stuff you're keeping. You reverse back in time with the Goron mask, meaning you dealt with Darunia and healed his spirit. But no, you didn't, you never met him in this timeline so he was never healed.
The perfect Dark
Banned
I just bought the MM background design for my New 3DS......why....
Yeah I'm drunk...okay....but I would have bought it anyway.....It's just...I couldn't resist.
You did.....but not in "your" current universe.
Yeah I'm drunk...okay....but I would have bought it anyway.....It's just...I couldn't resist.
You did.....but not in "your" current universe.
TheMoon
Member
I think we're overcomplicating things. This is starting to sound like BioShock Infinite discussions, lol.
Basically, the game seems to (implicitly or explicitly) establish that some things transcend time and space. This includes all of the masks. So if a spirit is tied to a mask, and became the mask when it was healed, then the spirit goes with the mask. So Darmani is still healed, since he is tied to the Goron Mask that travels with you through time.
Link's goal is to save Termina. He does not accomplish this if he keeps creating new timeliens that are then left to destruction. Time in this game is like a river. You travel up it and down it. When you travel up it, you remove what went down it, but you take with you the key items that transcend time and space. Then, from the start of the river, you go back down it, creating a new series of events... until you go back up the river. But every time you go back up the river, what went down the river is removed.
So there is only one timeline. Not multiple timelines. There is only one, and that one timeline is ultimately saved.
If there's only one timeline wouldn't there be multiple Links, for each time you travel back? And wouldn't those key items still be in the world when you travel backwards? I know the multiple timeline theory defeats the purpose of Link saving the world, but he doesn't know that and he also can't escape Termina until he at least saves one timeline, it seems.
CambriaRising
Member
Neiteio has it right.
This is a little different from the way time travel in OOT worked. (Specifically in the case of the song of storms)
This is a little different from the way time travel in OOT worked. (Specifically in the case of the song of storms)
Is this the kind of game you should play with a walkthrough or go in blind? Because I was playing it blind for a bit and was getting lost quite a bit. Ended up using a walkthrough and managed to reach the Swamp area and now I'm proceeding on my own.
The thing is without the walkthrough, I never would have known how to get Kamaro's Mask, the Bomb Mask, the Rabbit Mask, the Bremen Mask. Which are mostly pretty damn useful.
Should I proceed in the game blind or use a walkthrough to make sure I dont miss things such as useful masks and side things to do?
The thing is without the walkthrough, I never would have known how to get Kamaro's Mask, the Bomb Mask, the Rabbit Mask, the Bremen Mask. Which are mostly pretty damn useful.
Should I proceed in the game blind or use a walkthrough to make sure I dont miss things such as useful masks and side things to do?
WrenchNinja
Member
That's not entirely true. They show you redoing events on your first rewind, albeit in fast forward.
No.
Link transcends space-time because he has the ocarina. The ocarina itself transcends space-time. And so do all of the special items, I.E. the masks, etc.
One Link. One set of items. One timeline. One destiny that is simply rewritten. No one is doomed. Time is simply reversed, and a new future takes place. This repeats until it's right.
Oh, yeah. That just mixes everything up then...
Just go with what the game tells you.
I feel like most of the masks you should stumble upon yourself and the game will already help you out if you feel you're stuck anyway. There's a Sheikah Stone near the Happy Mask Salesman that'll basically cover the job of a walkthrough whenever you get stuck and the Bomber kids in Clock Town will give you hints that'll lead you to the sidequests including the ones that lead to masks.
I'd avoid relying on the stone too much but the kids' info should be fair game, it's all reasonably vague.
You can do that since December 2013 which is when Miiverse launched on 3DS ...
Oh right! It's only with Smash that you couldn't.
Can you with the N3DS?
WrenchNinja
Member
Yes you can post Smash shots on New 3DS