In your scenario the extra timelines continue to exist for no reason other than because you like the idea of multiverse.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Majora's Mask 3D |OT| Remakes are a Nice Thing to Have Heh, heh
- Thread starter Kriken
- Start date
MetalGuardian
Banned
That's an interesting idea that *almost* gets you to where you want to go, but doesn't quite.
You rewind time to the beginning of day one, but the chest that contained the Bow in Woodfall is still empty. Skull Kid no longer has the Ocarina. The old lady who gets robbed no longer has the Blast Mask to give. If it was truly like rewinding a tape, then EVERYTHING would be reset... but if even *one* item doesn't exist in the exact same location anymore (the Bow in Woodfall to use the same example), then it necessitates a different timeline. The tape being rewound is ever so *slightly* different, meaning it ever so *slightly* diverges from the original world. Which again, requires multiple timelines.
I'm not at all trying to gang up on you specifically, you beautiful Nintenbro you, but you just happen to be the only one arguing this counterpoint
I can agree to disagree though, sure. At the very least, I'm thrilled I was able to have this discussion... this particular line of thought has been something I've thought about regularly since all the way back when this game was originally released... and I've only had the chance to discuss it with other people *once* before this.
Thank you... for hearing me out. I can finally rest... knowing I've shared a theory with friends.
...
"You got the MetalGuardian Mask! Wow, it sure looks ferocious. Try wearing it while in the crowd of an Indigo-go concert sometime!"
LOL, you're awesome, MetalGuardianThat's an interesting idea that *almost* gets you to where you want to go, but doesn't quite.
You rewind time to the beginning of day one, but the chest that contained the Bow in Woodfall is still empty. Skull Kid no longer has the Ocarina. The old lady who gets robbed no longer has the Blast Mask to give. If it was truly like rewinding a tape, then EVERYTHING would be reset... but if even *one* item doesn't exist in the exact same location anymore (the Bow in Woodfall to use the same example), then it necessitates a different timeline. The tape being rewound is ever so *slightly* different, meaning it ever so *slightly* diverges from the original world. Which again, requires multiple timelines.
I'm not at all trying to gang up on you specifically, you beautiful Nintenbro you, but you just happen to be the only one arguing this counterpoint
I can agree to disagree though, sure. At the very least, I'm thrilled I was able to have this discussion... this particular line of thought has been something I've thought about regularly since all the way back when this game was originally released... and I've only had the chance to discuss it with other people *once* before this.
Thank you... for hearing me out. I can finally rest... knowing I've shared a theory with friends.
...
"You got the MetalGuardian Mask! Wow, it sure looks ferocious. Try wearing it while in the crowd of an Indigo-go show sometime!"
To address the point you raise, I'll go back to what I said before: Yes, the chest with the bow would be empty, but that's because Link is the Hero of Time and made the bow transcendental like himself. He is able to remove it from where it originally appeared in the timeline and take it with him as he moves forward and backwards in time. It is a narrative conceit of the game that in this game's time-space continuum, the past is simply rewritten to resolve the absence of the items that are now with Link outside of time. The end result is still that the people themselves remain as one entity and are ultimately saved, and no multiverse clones are created to go up in flames.
You know, if anything, the fact the chest with the bow is empty when you reset time goes against the multiverse theory, since if you were just stepping out of one timeline and into another (as in, out of one version of the world, and into another), then the one you arrive in would still have its own bow in its own chest. The only way the items can be missing is if they transcend time as I've described.
Link is a constant, and so are the items, once he collects them. The timeline then makes a variable of their absence, and resolves the timeline accordingly.
Link is a constant, and so are the items, once he collects them. The timeline then makes a variable of their absence, and resolves the timeline accordingly.
shadyspace
Banned
Is there an order you have to do the dungeons in?
Yea the order is gated by items from previous areas. Tatl will tell you where to next at the start of a new cycle. The order is
Woodfall, Snowhead, Great Bay, Ikana Canyon.
Well, depends on how you look at it. You can't reach the region with the second dungeon until you have the key item found in the first dungeon. You can't reach the region with the third dungeon until after you've beat the second dungeon. You can't reach the region with the fourth dungeon until you get the key item in the third dungeon.
Start with the swamp. You won't be able to access the other three regions at this point, anyways. One region requires the bow, another requires the horse, and yet another requires the hookshot -and- the ice arrows. None of which you have if you're just starting out.
SirNinja
Member
Yep. Tael even tells you the correct order when you visit the Skull Kid.
However, they don't necessarily have to be completed in order. Once you get the main item from the first temple, you're free to go to the area containing the second temple at any time, and so on.
Only one piece of hearts missing (the one in the Zora Moon mini-dungeon), then I only need to catch all the fish and I'll be 100% done.
Play Time so far: 31 hours.
That's... amazing considering the game only has 4 dungeons in a 15 years old game.
Also, the new credit song is amazing.
Play Time so far: 31 hours.
That's... amazing considering the game only has 4 dungeons in a 15 years old game.
Also, the new credit song is amazing.
I bet it's the one in the beehive on the ceiling of the last room with the Gossip Stone. It's so high up that the scratching is hard to hear.
Burning Justice
the superior princess
Check the beehives in the room with the big tree.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
YES it was this, it didn't scratch unless you looked up first. Thanks for the save dudes.
No prob Tattycakes, that one almost eluded me, too
No problemo!
In regards to the thread, I need to go back and finish fishing and find the last heart piece the elluded me eventually but as of right now I'm slightly burnt out on MM.
Yeah, I think the timeline is simply resolving itself so there are no paradoxes.
A steadfast rule in MM's model of the space-time continuum is "No duplicates."
If Link takes something from the future with him into the past, the past is reworked so that Link won't find a repeat of that item.
Again, the "one Termina" "transcendental" item theory.
(This post brought to you while waiting for fish to bite my line)
Necromanti
Member
I've always liked that the Song of Healing is just Saria's Song backwards (in terms of the notes you play, at least), emphasizing--perhaps unintentionally--that Termina is a sort of bizarro Hyrule. Although it also makes me realize that there were quite a few original characters and not just cameos, since they totally could have shoehorned other OoT characters into the game.
Haha oh god time travel posts. I don't even want to wade into that mess...
Just finished great bay. It's simpler than I remember, but the fairies were a bit of a pain. Boss was pretty meh, considering people seemed high on it. I remember it being awful in the original though, so maybe an improvement?
Just finished great bay. It's simpler than I remember, but the fairies were a bit of a pain. Boss was pretty meh, considering people seemed high on it. I remember it being awful in the original though, so maybe an improvement?
I played this game when I was a kid but gave up early on because of the time mechanic (needing you to play the Song of Time).
Now I play it again many years later while the game is fun, I am still a bit clueless about the Song of Time. I need to look at FAQs about the mechanic (what items will be gone, parts that need to be replayed etc etc).
I am having fun, but I think it's very confusing to a lot of new players. Especially the first time knowing all your progress are gone after 3 days is over.
Now I play it again many years later while the game is fun, I am still a bit clueless about the Song of Time. I need to look at FAQs about the mechanic (what items will be gone, parts that need to be replayed etc etc).
I am having fun, but I think it's very confusing to a lot of new players. Especially the first time knowing all your progress are gone after 3 days is over.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Actually, you can go to Snowhead and Ikana Canyon as soon as you get the Bow and the Ice Arrows. Only Snowhead is a hard stop to go to Great Bay/Ikana because you need Epona, which requires the powder keg, which requires you to complete Snowhead.
I have no idea if this messes up the giant cutscene or Tatl's dialog. Maybe there's a soft lock type thing where a key NPC doesn't progress the story until the previous dungeon was complete or something. I really don't know what happens if you just don't beat Woodfall or Great Bay and just leave when you get the weapon.
cagelessrat
Member
It pretty simple to remember once you get it. You keep masks; items like bottles, hoookshot, bow; gear; and heartpieces. You lose rupees (take them to the bank to keep them), bombs (but keep the bag), bottle contents, arrows, etc.
You only have to redo things you don't get a mask or song from. So if you do half a sidequest, but don't get the mask, you'll need to redo the whole thing.
Make sure you're making good use of your Bomber's notebook to keep track of quests and people.
And some Song of Time tips:
Play the Song of time backwards to slow down time. You almost always wanna do this. Play it like that again to put it back to normal.
Play it twice (YY LL RR or whatever) to skip forward to any particular hour. This is handy during quests.
Play it twice (YY LL RR or whatever) to skip forward to any particular hour. This is handy during quests.
Let's not spoiler-tag tips that are nearly essential to the game.
You can slow down time by playing the Song of Time backwards: R, L, Y, R, L, Y
You can skip to any hour in the current day by playing the first three notes of the Song of Time twice: Y, Y, L, L, R, R
To formally learn this, show your ocarina to the Scarecrow in the Trading Post or at the Astral Observatory.
Honestly, the Happy Mask Salesman should've taught this. Still can't believe they signpost Ice Arrows but not the most important technique in the game.
You can slow down time by playing the Song of Time backwards: R, L, Y, R, L, Y
You can skip to any hour in the current day by playing the first three notes of the Song of Time twice: Y, Y, L, L, R, R
To formally learn this, show your ocarina to the Scarecrow in the Trading Post or at the Astral Observatory.
Honestly, the Happy Mask Salesman should've taught this. Still can't believe they signpost Ice Arrows but not the most important technique in the game.
balladofwindfishes
Member
With the time mechanic, it's important to remember that every area has a few "checkpoints" where you don't need to repeat the previous parts in that area of you don't want to. This will be the song you get in the area, a permanent item or an important mask. Once you get to these points you can proceed from that point no matter if you use the song of time or not.
Although you can beat nearly every area in one or two cycles, it's not easy to do so and isn't expected from you at all. I beat the game as a teenager back in the mid 2000s and it still took me two entire cycles to beat Great Bay Dungeon just a couple hours ago, let alone the cycles to beat the parts that let you get into the dungeon.
Although you can beat nearly every area in one or two cycles, it's not easy to do so and isn't expected from you at all. I beat the game as a teenager back in the mid 2000s and it still took me two entire cycles to beat Great Bay Dungeon just a couple hours ago, let alone the cycles to beat the parts that let you get into the dungeon.
Necromanti
Member
Plus, when you play the song, they tell you that the items that are highlighted are the ones you won't keep. (Although for weapons, this only applies to the ammunition and not the item itself.)
You could always just save and test it to see.
The bombers tell you about this really early on in the game as someone earlier in the thread pointed out. I guarantee if they'd done it with the Happy Mask Salesman, people would give them flack for being too hand-holdy. They're caught in between a rock and a hard place when it comes to stuff like that.
cagelessrat
Member
I saw people earlier getting upset for it not being tagged. Damned if I do...
I just dedicated a full three-day cycle to fishing at the Swamp Fishing Hole. Man, I'd nearly forgotten how thrilling it is to get a fish on the line and wrestle with it for what seems like an eternity. I caught six types of fish (out of 12 in this hole, and 24 in the game), including this monstrosity that required the Gibdo Mask:
I also like how you can use the Fierce Deity Mask in the fishing holes:
And when I finally emerged from the fishing hole:
I also like how you can use the Fierce Deity Mask in the fishing holes:
And when I finally emerged from the fishing hole:
Played for maybe five or so hours, and have beaten the first dungeon. So far this game is just not clicking. People complain about Fi in Skyward Sword's pop ups but this game seems so much worse. Seeing events repeated over and over is no fun and man am I sick of the Deku Mask transformation cutscene. The time limit makes me feel like I have to rush through everything and have no desire to go for optional stuff. What am I missing here?
CambriaRising
Member
Fuck, as if this dude wasn't already nightmare fuel.
You can hit the "a" button to skip most of the transformation scene.
SirNinja
Member
I keep finding new stuff in this game.
If you go into the Trading Post after 10pm, the part-time worker will be there instead, as the regular guy is off running the Curiosity Shop. If you
. It's the little things...
If you go into the Trading Post after 10pm, the part-time worker will be there instead, as the regular guy is off running the Curiosity Shop. If you
go up to the part-timer while wearing the Stone Mask, he won't notice you're there, and will instead wonder out loud to himself how his boss is able to make so much money despite the Trading Post barely having any customers
First of all, have you discovered the Inverted Song of Time yet? It makes the cycle last longer and gives you more time to do things like the optional stuff. Always be sure to talk to the bombers who will give you hints about what to do.
Yes I have used the inverted song of time and it still doesn't really encourage me to do optional stuff. I just feel compelled to do as much of the main storyline as possible before having to go back to the bank, deposit rupees, go back in time, play the inverted song of time, refill my expendable items and start again. Time management feels like a chore, I'm not sure what it adds to the game.
Must have missed that, for some reason I thought it wasn't skippable.
SirNinja
Member
You're going to have to dedicate full cycles to do the optional stuff. In fact, the game is more fun if when you reset time, you have a general idea of what you'd like to explore or accomplish before you reset again. Why do you feel like you're under pressure to do the main story all of the time?
I feel like I want to get as much done within the time I have, and if I reset time I have no idea what progress will or won't be saved in an area and don't want to repeat anything. Just going through all the steps of starting a new sequence makes me want to avoid doing that as much as possible.
The only type of progress in an area that the game will save is if you found an owl statue in a new area. If you did, you can warp straight to it with the Song of Soaring even if you reset. What steps of starting a new sequence are you talking about? All you should really worry about is banking your rupees.
The game doesn't really have a time limit in the strictest sense. Remember that you are in control of time. You're deciding when it resets. The only thing the game does is put a limit on how long your cycle will last and make you reset at some point, but you really shouldn't become worried about facing a hard limit.
EDIT: Of course, major items you get also will be kept across cycles, but I'm assuming you've figured that out.
You have all the time in the world. And you hardly have to repeat anything. The key items and warp points allow you to skip everything leading up to those items and warp points.
Whenever you find a key item, you keep it. When you reach a dungeon, you activate an owl statue, and you keep it. You can warp back to those owl statues at anytime. They're at the entrance to each region and at the start of each dungeon. So you're just trying to reach a warp point. Then do whatever you want. Or you can simply dedicate an entire cycle to doing whatever you want. Maybe you just want to learn the world, explore the area, see what's up. You can dedicate a cycle to that.
And when you want to advance the story, just start a new cycle, slow down time, warp to the dungeon entrance, and you have three real-life hours to complete it. And if that's still not enough, and you only get halfway through, the dungeon item will allow you to skip half of that dungeon on the next cycle. And the stray fairies you found will still be marked on your map.
The advantage of the time cycle is that the NPCs all have schedules. Different characters do different things, in different ways, at different places, and at different times of each day and each night. And you can cause those events to branch out in different directions, depending on whether you intervene or not.
This wouldn't be possible without a repeating time cycle. It's totally worth it, and makes Majora's Mask the most dynamic and interesting Zelda.
I understand this point. But there is nothing much you can do when the time is up. You have to play the song and let go of all those things anyway. So it doesn't really matter if it tells you what will be gone or not. You have to part with it no matter what.