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[UFO]

Look at Brendan's first interview. He says Steven tied Teresa up and cut his finger in the process. Then he puts her in the back of her RAV4, stabbed her (the only place her blood was actually found), then drove the RAV4 to the location it was later found. He then transported her body back to the house to burn it.

I don't know why the prosecution didn't run with this version (his first version and the most believable) of his story.

Which interview was this from? There's no way that's the first. If he had said that in an interview he would have never been allowed back at school, and the first "big" interview that I'm aware of is when they pulled him from school and got him to say a bunch of nonsense about what happened in the bedroom, when the officer had to tell him Teresa was shot in the head.

He probably said that in a later interview after they couldn't find any of her blood (or DNA) in the bedroom so that needed him to create a new story that fit the evidence better.

 

[D-Stubbs]

Got two episodes left and man I don't know if I can finish. Great documentary but it's made me so mad. Guess I'll just have to power through it. Everything about this case is so damn ridiculous...

-The officer calling about the license plate.
-No blood or any DNA in Stevens house or garage.
-The blood vile that was absolutely tampered with.

Unbelievable. Feel so bad for the Avery family. And his lawyers were incredible and did everything they damn well could.

 

[excowboy]

Just watched ep 2-4 having watched the first episode the other night. GAF, what the fuck am I seeing? This is purely rhetorical - I'm not diving into this thread as the programme is so compelling and I want to watch it through - but holy hell, what in the actual fuck?

I want to fully acknowledge that the cases in the show clearly have innocent victims, subjected to abhorrent crimes, and I am trying to hold on to that fact whilst watching. At this point I have no idea as to the final outcome of the case so I won't pre-empt anything on that front, but just had to post my disbelief at the whole thing, and appreciation of how well put together it is.

It seems it would have been possible to handle all this footage and make something very tabloid out of it, but I do feel that the production is seeking to exercise the viewers emotions rather than satisfy them with something glossy (unlike the fucking horrendous VT of the Dateline producer - 'murder is so hot right now!' - fucking disgusting). Its just incredibly compelling - I hope it maintains the tone, but I sincerely hope justice is served by the end of it.

 

[The Beard]

Branden also said Steven slit her throat in the bedroom where no evidence of blood was found. You can't pick & choose what to believe in his statement. Steven worked in a junkyard, where u can easily get cuts on your hand. I can relate with that because my dad owned a auto parts junkyard for about 15 years he had had plenty of cuts & scrapes on his hands/arm.

He said that later in the following interview after the investigators pushed the hell out of him to hear what they wanted to hear. Sure, you can cut your hands working in a junkyard. But when someone is murdered on your property, your blood is found in her car, and your nephew calims you told him that you cut it while tying her up, that has to be taken into consideration.

Which interview was this from? There's no way that's the first. If he had said that in an interview he would have never been allowed back at school, and the first "big" interview that I'm aware of is when they pulled him from school and got him to say a bunch of nonsense about what happened in the bedroom, when the officer had to tell him Teresa was shot in the head.

He probably said that in a later interview after they couldn't find any of her blood (or DNA) in the bedroom so that needed him to create a new story that fit the evidence better.

They didn't show this interview in the documentary. It was 2 days before the "confession". It was before any of that bedroom rape scenario bullshit, or headshot nonsense that the investigators forced out of him.

Here's the link. I'll try and find the transcript because the audio cuts out about every 20 seconds.

http://youtu.be/drwb15E_taM

Here's the transcript from that interview.

https://www.docdroid.net/80khPqQ/tworiverspdtranscript.pdf.html

 

[UFO]

He said that later in the following interview after the investigators pushed the hell out of him to hear what they wanted to hear. Sure, you can cut your hands working in a junkyard. But when someone is murdered on your property, your blood is found in her car, and your nephew calims you told him that you cut it while tying her up, that has to be taken into consideration.



They didn't show this interview in the documentary. It was 2 days before the "confession". It was before any of that bedroom rape scenario bullshit, or headshot nonsense that the investigators forced out of him.

Here's the link. I'll try and find the transcript because the audio cuts out about every 20 seconds.

http://youtu.be/drwb15E_taM

Here's the transcript from that interview.

https://www.docdroid.net/80khPqQ/tworiverspdtranscript.pdf.html

Oh, ok, that's interesting. That definitely seems like a more honest and believable interview. It doesn't really fit into the timeline though. If they had that interview why did they do the second one where they tried to frame him for rape? And why did they wait until after the second one to search the garage? It doesn't really make sense. Later on Brendan tells his mom that he doesn't know if Steven did it too, which contradicts the interview.

I think I'd like to know how that first interview came about, who came to who first?

 

[The Beard]

Oh, ok, that's interesting. That definitely seems like a more honest and believable interview. It doesn't really fit into the timeline though. If they had that interview why did they do the second one where they tried to frame him for rape? And why did they wait until after the second one to search the garage? It doesn't really make sense. Later on Brendan tells his mom that he doesn't know if Steven did it too, which contradicts the interview.

I think I'd like to know how that first interview came about, who came to who first?

It turns out it was the second interview. The first was held at Brendan's school, then this one was at the police station, and the third is where he started pulling things out of his ass attempting to tell the investigators what they wanted to hear.

 

[jmood88]

I'm on episode 7 and I have no idea how anyone on the jury could believe the prosecution's case. I've been incredulous the entire time I've been watching. It's like living in the twilight zone. You have police lying on the stand (or "misremembering"), the nephew all of a sudden admitting to helping cover-up a crime out of nowhere, contaminated DNA samples, a lack of motive, and then a bunch of shit that just makes no sense whatsoever (he's been living and working at an junkyard his whole life but decides to just leave the car barely-covered by some branches, among other things). Hell, they had to move the damn case to another county because the Manitowoc police department was biased against Avery. The whole thing just makes no sense to me.

 

[JTripper]

Never been angrier at a piece of "entertainment" than I was at this series after episode 8.

Show makes me want to take a vacation far away.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

Show makes me want to take a vacation far away.

I assume that's not to Wisconsin, right?

 

[jmood88]

I get angrier and angrier the more I think about this. The prosecution laid out one of the worst cases I've ever seen and Avery's lawyers easily refuted all of their arguments; how the hell could anyone think that there's, at the very least, no reasonable doubt that someone else mirdered the woman?

 

[JTripper]

I get angrier and angrier the more I think about this. The prosecution laid out one of the worst cases I've ever seen and Avery's lawyers easily refuted all of their arguments; how the hell could anyone think that there's, at the very least, no reasonable doubt that someone else mirdered the woman?

I mean Avery's lawyers even poked holes in every single claim the prosecution made with every piece of evidence that was presented. Unbelievable.

 

[KarmaCow]

I get angrier and angrier the more I think about this. The prosecution laid out one of the worst cases I've ever seen and Avery's lawyers easily refuted all of their arguments; how the hell could anyone think that there's, at the very least, no reasonable doubt that someone else mirdered the woman?

Well you have to remember that the documentary has a very obvious bias toward Avery and is crafting a story through editing. Not that it isn't still shocking but there could be things the prosecution is pointing out that makes it far less ridiculous.

 

[Mr. Mister]

I get angrier and angrier the more I think about this. The prosecution laid out one of the worst cases I've ever seen and Avery's lawyers easily refuted all of their arguments; how the hell could anyone think that there's, at the very least, no reasonable doubt that someone else mirdered the woman?

Maybe because you are watching at best 3 hours of a very long trail that had other evidence presented. The jury heard the case for the framing and clearly didn't buy it.

Documentaries are edited to tell a specific story from a specific angle. Someone else could have taken the footage and put something together that would have had half the thread asking why he wasn't given death.

 

[D4Danger]

just finished episode 4. I feel sorry for that Brendan kid who got railroaded into a confession and then did it again by the person who was supposedly on his side. When he asks if he can go home because he wants to watch wrestlemania after confessing to a murder he really had no idea what he was doing or saying. It's devastating.

edit: oh and the journalist(?)/presenter from 60 minutes who is basically getting off on this case and says something like "murder is hot right now" while literally jumping up and and down in her seat was just gross.

 

[RustyNails]

It turns out it was the second interview. The first was held at Brendan's school, then this one was at the police station, and the third is where he started pulling things out of his ass attempting to tell the investigators what they wanted to hear.

Ok, so the first ever interview with Brendan is the one at school where we saw where those two detectives pull him out of the class and lead him to say stuff. The one you just linked is the 2nd interview which was not shown, conducted at police station. The third interview is also down at the police station after Michael O' Kelly leads him to say bunch of stuff and draw things. Did I get it right?

 

[HalfBakedProphet]

It turns out it was the second interview. The first was held at Brendan's school, then this one was at the police station, and the third is where he started pulling things out of his ass attempting to tell the investigators what they wanted to hear.

if we take it all the way and assume Brendan was mostly telling the truth in the early interviews, it would bring into question where the hell the bullet came from if Steven stabbed Teresa in the RAV4. Why was there so little blood in the RAV from a stomach puncture? Why would Steven shoot an already dead body (according to the May 13th interview, Steven shot her not once but 5 times)? WHY WAS THERE NO BLOOD IN THE GARAGE FROM MULTIPLE STABBINGS AND GUNSHOT WOUNDS?

I personally believe all of Brendan's interviews are junk. He can't even keep the color of her shirt straight from one interview to the next.

 

[Jerm411]

The wife and I are 6 episodes in and we both see the writing on the wall for where this is going...which is ridiculous and sad because it's blatantly obvious to me what happened and what I've seen so far Avery's defense is DESTROYING the state and their "case".

The fix is in though and it's easy to see it...I mean even the judge's rulings are so blatantly skewered so far it's not even funny.

I've also had this thought in my head and I can't shake it and it's clear as day to me...Avery is mere days if not weeks from receiving an insane amount of money but yet he kills a woman, leaves incriminating evidence all over his own property, and does all this while clearly knowing he's being targeted and has been for years? LOL ok....

 

[ProfessorLobo]

The American judicial system is scary as fuck, but even though the circumstances described and the placement of the evidence at hand are sketchy, I firmly believe Steven Avery is guilty beyond any reasonable doubt.

The American judicial system is scary as fuck because of people like you.

 

[suzu]

Steven Avery Prosecutor Feels Sorry for Brendan Dassey: 'He Would Never Have Been Involved Except for His Uncle'

Kratz tells PEOPLE that he regrets the press conference shortly after Dassey's arrest, but he believes that Kachinsky was truly trying to help his client secure a plea bargain when he allowed investigators to question Dassey alone.

"[Dassey] was really in a good position to not only once and for all tell people how Steven was involved, but he could have gotten a significantly [reduced sentence]" had he accepted the plea bargain, says Kratz.

It was Dassey's family who "coerced" him into recanting, according to Kratz. "It was awfully clear to us that he was involved," he says. "[But] his family was telling him, 'You tell the court that they made you say these things.' "

Adds Kratz: "Brendan would have been out [soon with Kachinsky's help]."

This guy... lol

 

[Measley]

This entire documentary just shows how important it is to have a good (i.e. EXPENSIVE) lawyer at your side when shit hits the fan. If you're poor, working class, or middle class, you're royally fucked and the system will have its way with you.

 

[Dalek]

Just began watching this tonight.

"She said the man wore white underwear-but Steven did not even own a pair of underwear."

 

[Socreges]

So Kratz has come out and said that the doc neglected to mention a lot of other evidence. I don't doubt that's true. The question would be whether or not the evidence is actually meaningful.

Avery’s DNA was found under [Teresa’s car’s] trunk. [Later, and in a separate correspondence, Kratz said this DNA evidence was found under the hood, suggesting that Kratz misspoke at one point in the interview.] It wasn’t blood. It was from his sweaty hands. Do the cops also have a vial of his sweat that they are carrying around? The evidence conclusively shows that Steven Avery’s hand was under the hood when he insists he never touched her car.

Teresa’s phone, camera and [other contents of her purse] were found 20 feet from Avery's door, burned in his barrel...Two people saw him putting that stuff in there. This isn’t contested. It was all presented as evidence at the jury trial, and the documentary people don’t tell you that.

Would love to hear what Avery's team would have to say about this.

And more from this article, though I'm not sharing it because I'm convinced it's true, but more to see if anyone else can shed light:

There was clearly some shady shit here, but I snooped around in various Reddit threads and through some local news reports and found a few pieces of evidence not presented in the docuseries that persuade me that Avery was probably guilty. Some of this was presented at trial, while some of it was excluded in pre-trial motions.

— In the months leading up to Halbach’s disappearance, Avery had called Auto Trader several times and always specifically requested Halbach to come out and take the photos.
— Halbach had complained to her boss that she didn’t want to go out to Avery’s trailer anymore, because once when she came out, Avery was waiting for her wearing only a towel (this was excluded for being too inflammatory). Avery clearly had an obsession with Halbach.
— On the day that Halbach went missing, Avery had called her three times, twice from a *67 number to hide his identity.
— The bullet with Halbach’s DNA on it came from Avery’s gun, which always hung above his bed.
— Avery had purchased handcuffs and leg irons like the ones Dassey described holding Halbach only three weeks before (Avery said he’s purchased them for use with his girlfriend, Jodi, with whom he’d had a tumultuous relationship — at one point, he was ordered by police to stay away from her for three days).
— Here’s the piece of evidence that was presented at trial but not in the series that I find most convincing: In Dassey’s illegally obtained statement, Dassey stated that he helped Avery moved the RAV4 into the junkyard and that Avery had lifted the hood and removed the battery cable. Even if you believe that the blood in Halbach’s car was planted by the cops (as I do), there was also non-blood DNA evidence on the hood latch. I don’t believe the police would plant — or know to plant — that evidence.

One thing I felt was a little weird,

Spoiler

why didn't he take the stand?

Because even innocent people may incriminate themselves. Lawyers are experts at asking a certain sequence of questions to try and get people (especially less intelligent people) to say things they didn't mean to or don't necessarily believe. I suspect his lawyers advised him not to risk it, else he make it worse.

 

[ProfessorLobo]

So Kratz has come out and said that the doc neglected to mention a lot of other evidence. I don't doubt that's true. The question would be whether or not the evidence is actually meaningful.

Would love to hear what Avery's team would have to say about this.

And more from this article, though I'm not sharing it because I'm convinced it's true, but more to see if anyone else can shed light:


Because even innocent people may incriminate themselves. Lawyers are experts at asking a certain sequence of questions to try and get people (especially less intelligent people) to say things they didn't mean to or don't necessarily believe. I suspect his lawyers advised him not to risk it, else he make it worse.

His sources are Reddit?

 

[Socreges]

His sources are Reddit?

That's why I included that bit. I don't believe any of it is necessarily true. Reddit users have apparently been doing a lot of sleuthing, for better or worse.

 

[AniHawk]

Steven Avery Prosecutor Feels Sorry for Brendan Dassey: 'He Would Never Have Been Involved Except for His Uncle'


This guy... lol

why wold kratz do anything to put himself in the spotlight than he already is? does he not understand where popular opinion stands after this documentary?

 

[Socreges]

why wold kratz do anything to put himself in the spotlight than he already is? does he not understand where popular opinion stands after this documentary?

He's doing what he can to counter it, of course. Mostly by trying to undermine the documentary itself. Fact is his interviews show up among some of the simplest google searches, so he's at least getting his voice out there, whether or not people believe what he has to say.

 

[kaizoku]

This documentary really highlights how powerful and dangerous the media is and why it's so bad to let media conglomerates like Rupert Murdoch have ALL the power. It's also why the state having all the power is bad as in North Korea. They can pretty much tell you what and how to think.

if that post from Reddit is true where he seems obsessed with her then that's terrifying.

 

[biggersmaller]

The system failed these two men. The prosecutors and police should be ashamed. Luckily I live in Minnesota where decent cops live.

Spoiler

*peers through blinds at neighbor cop. squints. takes drag*

 

[RustyNails]

So Kratz has come out and said that the doc neglected to mention a lot of other evidence. I don't doubt that's true. The question would be whether or not the evidence is actually meaningful.

Would love to hear what Avery's team would have to say about this.

And more from this article, though I'm not sharing it because I'm convinced it's true, but more to see if anyone else can shed light:


Because even innocent people may incriminate themselves. Lawyers are experts at asking a certain sequence of questions to try and get people (especially less intelligent people) to say things they didn't mean to or don't necessarily believe. I suspect his lawyers advised him not to risk it, else he make it worse.

I'm not on team Avery. I'm on team fuck Manitowoc county. But the doc did mention sweaty Avery and calls being made to AutoTrader. The problem is, Halbach could have not gone to Avery's if she feared any danger to her or could have said something to her boss. It's clear that she was dealing with personal issues, and it was going on for a long time according to Halbach's colleague (or instructor, forgot).

 

[Measley]

Just finished this.

Makes me wish I had went to law school. Probably one of the most disturbing docs I've seen.

 

[Messypandas]

After watching the docs I wasn't convinced of Stevens innocence, but I was convinced the entire trial was a clusterfuck for of the highest order, and he is paying the price for that.

 

[Nothus]

Just began watching this tonight.

"She said the man wore white underwear-but Steven did not even own a pair of underwear."

LMAO

There's so much shit that goes on in the documentary after this that I totally forgot about it hahaha! That gif is just perfect.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

Every time I think about this damn thing, I think of another thing that just makes no damn sense to me whatsoever.

Like, why the hell was there even the most *remote* involvement of officers who had been part of Avery's previous case? There was so much obvious conflict of interest around the case that I can't fathom how anyone would find it appropriate to let the officers involved anywhere near another case involving Avery, much less one that comes up in such close proximity to their deposition.

 

[Socreges]

I'm not on team Avery. I'm on team fuck Manitowoc county. But the doc did mention sweaty Avery and calls being made to AutoTrader. The problem is, Halbach could have not gone to Avery's if she feared any danger to her or could have said something to her boss. It's clear that she was dealing with personal issues, and it was going on for a long time according to Halbach's colleague (or instructor, forgot).

Really? Can you be more specific? I don't recall anything

 

[evilromero]

Or how about the fact that Judge Willis claimed that Avery's trend of crimes were just getting WORSE at the age of 42 and that with his current trajectory it would be unethical to let him remain on the streets.

I'm sorry, WHAT TREND? Did he fail statistics? You mean this ONE CRIME? What in the fuck is going on.

 

[Socreges]

Or how about the fact that Judge Willis claimed that Avery's trend of crimes were just getting WORSE at the age of 42 and that with his current trajectory it would be unethical to let him remain on the streets.

I'm sorry, WHAT TREND? Did he fail statistics? You mean this ONE CRIME? What in the fuck is going on.

A 90-year-old Avery would be worse than 20 Hitlers!

The letter from the investigator to Brendan's original DA was fucked, too. The Averys being a one-branch family tree that needs to be cut down. The prejudice in that county is off the charts.

 

[evilromero]

A 90-year-old Avery would be worse than 20 Hitlers!

It's crazy to me that they paraded forwarded with the tired rhetoric,"the streets are a little bit safer now that he's behind bars." Come on. There ain't no streets on Avery Rd. Shit is a dirt road. So the dirt roads are a bit safer now I suppose.

 

[Nokterian]

I still think about this nearly daily on how and what has happened it still boggles my mind how they not only tricked them both but also putting away 2 people who to what i truly believe did not kill anyone. And i still think about Brendan that poor boy he is now a grown up and still in prison and doesn't know what is happening outside the prison.

I do hope something will happen that they will be free again and that a lot of those assholes will go to jail instead.

Seeing the defense saying a police officer is never corrupt! Ehm do they forget that even in the late 60's/70's there were a lot corrupt cops because Al Capone and other mafia's etc? Even today there are corrupt cops and them saying that they wouldn't do that. They need to get the fuck out because it can and will happen even today.

 

[TwoDurans]

Hard to watch more than one episode in a sitting. They're each pissing me off so much. How can someone destroy a life like that simply because they don't like him?

 

[sangreal]

After watching the docs I wasn't convinced of Stevens innocence, but I was convinced the entire trial was a clusterfuck for of the highest order, and he is paying the price for that.

Spoiler

Sums up my thoughts. Guilty or not they railroaded him. He was going down for this no matter what

Don't even get me started on Dassey and his "defense"

This enitre docu is fucking infuriating

 

[BronsonLee]

After stewing on it a bit, the sad conclusion I've come to is that if the Avery's had just left town/let themselves get ran out of town, none of this probably comes to pass. And if Steven doesn't bring that massive lawsuit against them that looked a lot like it was going to have some juice to it, the latter half doesn't happen.

 

[Shenmue]

The hardest thing to watch are Steve's parents and Brendan's mom. They are just destroyed, especially Steve's parents having to go through this twice.

 

[yyzjohn]

Just watched the Jinx in one sitting after this doc. I'm hooked on true crime docs now. Anymore I should check out?

 

[amnesiac]

Just watched the Jinx in one sitting after this doc. I'm hooked on true crime docs now. Anymore I should check out?

I'm watching The Staircase right now and it's pretty good. The whole thing is on YouTube.

 

[Shenmue]

Just watched the Jinx in one sitting after this doc. I'm hooked on true crime docs now. Anymore I should check out?

They aren't long episodic series, but I enjoy Forensic Files. Each episode covers one case. They have many seasons on Amazon Prime Video.

It's especially good after something like this because it helps restore faith in the system and the police and investigators. The men and women in the episodes actually do great amazing work.

 

[soco]

Did they ever talk about the calls or messages Halbach got on her phone before the incident? In the documentary, it sounded like the prosecution was suggesting these might have come from Avery. Do we know they didn't come from her ex?

 

[Arthr2ShdsJcksn]

Just watched the Jinx in one sitting after this doc. I'm hooked on true crime docs now. Anymore I should check out?

The Thin Blue Line is sort of the forefather of this type of documentary.

Also, look into the HBO doc on the Memphis 3... Paradise Lost.

I've heard good things about Staircase, but I haven't seen that one yet.

 

[CygnusXS]

I just finished it and, yeah, I'm on the fence about Steven's innocence but I'm really not sure there was enough presented at trial to achieve a guilty verdict, even accounting for some of the things the documentary may have left out.

Brendan, though, was completely let down and screwed over. Being convicted based on statements made by two minors (including himself) that were elicited by police without parents or counsel present and no other evidence is just a damn shame.

"Innocent people don't confess to crimes." Uh, yeah, they do.

 

[Shenmue]

Did they ever talk about the calls or messages Halbach got on her phone before the incident? In the documentary, it sounded like the prosecution was suggesting these might have come from Avery. Do we know they didn't come from her ex?

From other sources online, it seems like the documentary series left out some pretty pertinent information.

People from Halbach's company testified that she had said she was afraid of Steven and that he once answered the door wearing only a towel. I think her boss also testified that Steven called demanding they only send Halbach and no one else for pictures.

 

[soco]

Ok, so the first ever interview with Brendan is the one at school where we saw where those two detectives pull him out of the class and lead him to say stuff. The one you just linked is the 2nd interview which was not shown, conducted at police station. The third interview is also down at the police station after Michael O' Kelly leads him to say bunch of stuff and draw things. Did I get it right?

If you're talking about the one on 2/27, I don't think that was the first ever. I think that was actually the second. They mention he was interviewed soon after the murder took place and none of this ever came up. For some reason they went back to interview him again, three times, several months later.