-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Making A Murderer - Netflix 10-part documentary series - S1 now streaming on Netflix
- Thread starter Armadilo
- Start date
Kuro Madoushi
Unconfirmed Member
I had mentioned that it seems the person behind the account has done whatever needs to be done and has sent it to the lawyers already. I didn't see anything indicating a reveal or leak, but who knows?
jellies_two
Member
Not just that - other women came forward and said he abused his position of authority to do the same thing to them as well - sext me back and I'll not drop the case you're bringing. It wasn't a single unfortunate mistake, never happened before, don't know what I was thinking kind of thing, he was a predator with power and entirely untrustworthy.
Except that Avery was not the only one with access to the salvage yard who would have been there at that time. His brothers were just as good suspects as he was and they weren't investigated. There was a laser focus on Avery from minutes after the car was found (if not before) but nothing actually tied him to the crime more than any other available suspect until a good while into the searches, with most of that evidence (the key, the shell, the blood) being suspect.
Who knows, maybe it wasn't so much a conspiracy to put Avery away to make the lawsuit go away as it was just another incidence of the shitty Manitowoc cops trying to cover the tracks of their inept police work, realizing they'd put so many resources into going after the wrong guy when it was too late to change course and save face.
finalflame
Banned
It just keeps getting better and better. After the first episode all I could think was "How can this possibly be 10 1-hour episodes?", but trust me, it's never a dull moment.
Will continue !
What I don't get is how (episode 9)
In a way, what happened to Brendan is even more infuriating than what happened to Steve, because there's
And can you believe that
That was absolutely vile and disgusting. Like was said at the end, Brendan had a lawyer that was working for the prosecution. Everyone was teaming up to do the most damage possible to this kid, who didn't even know the difference between a lawyer and a police officer, or the meaning of the word 'inconsistent'. And after they got rid of the lawyer, the worst bit of 'evidence' he helped create (phone call with this mom), was still used in court! Can you believe this shit.
The 9th ep in particular was hard for me to watch.
the defense was ok with stopping Brendan's interrogation tape before the crucial moment. This is where he speaks with his mom and says they got to his head. Didn't the lawyers know this important bit was there further in? They should've showed that footage.
In a way, what happened to Brendan is even more infuriating than what happened to Steve, because there's
nothing! That whole case is thin air. No (dna) evidence, confessions that changed 8 times, the obvious coercion... This kid has been spending 8 or 9 years in prison after he's been mentally abused by police and investigators.
And can you believe that
oscar-worthy performance of that POS investigator as he made that entire Teresa display with the blue ribbon? And him choking up every time he saw the ribbon?
That was absolutely vile and disgusting. Like was said at the end, Brendan had a lawyer that was working for the prosecution. Everyone was teaming up to do the most damage possible to this kid, who didn't even know the difference between a lawyer and a police officer, or the meaning of the word 'inconsistent'. And after they got rid of the lawyer, the worst bit of 'evidence' he helped create (phone call with this mom), was still used in court! Can you believe this shit.
The 9th ep in particular was hard for me to watch.
I saw this on reddit-an interview with Dean Strang on questions people have after watching the show.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9h5C901lGE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9h5C901lGE
He actually heard all of the evidence and not just the one-sided info the "documentarians" provided.
Not holding my breath on the Anonymous crap. How can a bunch of internet geeks suddenly uncover missing evidence 10 years after the fact?
Internet detectives have solved cold cases before. It's rare but it happens. Problem with this case is any rational person can tell there was a huge miscarriage of justice here, so what they need is hard scientific evidence to get something done. Hard for internet detectives to come by.
Watch episode 10.
There's not enough evidence for him to even get a re-trial, let alone a pardon. Again, the state's judicial system gets to see everything and not just the stuff the people who made the documentary hand-picked.
The 1985 wrong conviction of Avery reminds me of a Canadian case back from 1984. Guy Paul Morin was convicted and then later exonerated based on advances in DNA. The same sort of police misconduct happened in that case where they were convinced they had their man and tunnel vision took over. Sadly in that case, no-one else was ever charged in that murder, and it remains unsolved to this day.
All the evidence that was left out in the documentary is way less convincing of Avery's guilt than the evidence actually presented in the doc so I am not sure where this attitude comes from. Also a bunch of it isn't even evidence and wasn't presented in court.
It's actually worse for Avery that Brendan's confession wasn't in his trial. As you said, the jury would have heard about the news conference and known that he "made a confession" but without hearing the defense attack that confession and how he was coerced into it. It's really sad that lawyers get to try their cases in the press. How that media conference was allowed to happen and all those details given out is just crazy.
Yeah there was absolutely no reason for that press conference to happen except to intentionally taint the jury pool.
Actually let me ammend my previous statement. While I still believe the press conference with the confession shouldn't have been allowed to happen, not having Brendan as a witness might have also swayed the jury the other way.
Example: you're a juror on the trial and you've heard the press conference and how the nephew confessed that he and his uncle did it. So you would expect this nephew to be a star witness at the trial, prosecution has first hand knowledge of the crime. But then he's not called and you could think "why wasn't he called? maybe his confession is bogus, maybe he's not reliable and they actually didn't do it.."
Along those lines, so I guess it can work both ways.
I mean we know that going into deliberations most of the jury was actually in favor of a Not Guilty verdict. I wish we knew why that was and how that changed.
Jerm411
Member
That's exactly why they did it and it worked...they knew those charges weren't going to stick, it was just to get ahead of the defense and put the perception out there.
Jerm411
Member
I believe they were pressured and bullied into switching.
RustyNails
Member
So much slime from the prosecution. Unbelievable. If they had a slam dunk case they wouldnt need to engineer this media circus.
The spot brendan got off the school bus, and where Teresa was claimed to be seen taking photos is a little over 1/4 of a mile away. Brendan noted the spot he gets dropped off, and said it takes him 4 minutes to walk home.
A large part of the prosecutions timeline requires the bus driver, and brendan to have seen Teresa at the time he gets dropped off. The bus driver testified to this.
We know 100% we can't assume Brendan knows what he is saying in his testimony, and we are supposed to believe the bus driver could see and identify Teresa from a little over 1/4 of a mile away?
Bus driver statement came after Teresa was reported missing, he car description was released, and Teresa's last known location are revealed.
I feel like im taking crazy pills that this would make sense to anyone.
A large part of the prosecutions timeline requires the bus driver, and brendan to have seen Teresa at the time he gets dropped off. The bus driver testified to this.
We know 100% we can't assume Brendan knows what he is saying in his testimony, and we are supposed to believe the bus driver could see and identify Teresa from a little over 1/4 of a mile away?
Bus driver statement came after Teresa was reported missing, he car description was released, and Teresa's last known location are revealed.
I feel like im taking crazy pills that this would make sense to anyone.
It's funny how much whining there is about the documentary being one sided now when uh... Look at the public presentation of the case for years. I watched all those news reports and Dateline specials and shit at the time and there sure was a lot of evidence and testimony in Steven's favor that was a part of the trial that never got much traction in the press until this doc. If anything, even if it is intentionally biased (regarding which I believe the filmmakers that they tried to get access to both sides and couldn't), it's just righting the scales from the way this has had nearly 10 years to play out in the media.
Just finished, watched everything in one big sitting.
I could understand that Stephen was convicted, there was enough evidence there to be guilty. But how can Brendan be convicted? There was no DNA of him or of the victim at the crime scene, he changes his statement many times and there are no truth behind what he says. The kid is not the brightest kid in the world, and he makes the kid in Paradise Lost look like Albert Einstein. They press him three times and the last time he cracks, they put word in his mouth and when he was drawing, he was basically pushed to draw the murder scene. How could this be evidence and it's the only evidence they have. It's so easy to see that the police was desperate to get him in jail. They deserve the shit storm that they have got afterwards. Obama do something!!
Sho_Nuff82
Member
A friend of mine on FB just called this "quite possibly the most aggressive display of injustice and mistreatment" they'd ever heard of.
I've not yet seen the series, but given some of the egregious abuses of justice in our country's history, is this really that lopsided of a case?
I've not yet seen the series, but given some of the egregious abuses of justice in our country's history, is this really that lopsided of a case?
It's pretty damn bad.
I think that your friend is right in as far as what they've ever heard of. I think the reality is things like this happen all the time-and this one just happened to have a camera on at the time to capture it.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
The kid on trial didn't know the difference between yards and feet or what the word "inconsistent" meant.
It's absurd.
I'm not saying the man is innocent but I don't know how he's convicted beyond reasonable doubt and there is just way too much bullshit in this case. Like most of the prosecutions evidence shouldn't even be considered.
RustyNails
Member
I tried to be as neutral as possible but simply cannot for the life of me make sense of the events described in prosecution's timeline. All they do is emotionally blackmail. Look at this big bad wolf Steven and how he raped and murdered this innocent little red riding hood, opps, I mean woman. and how dare you question the decency of these morally upstanding righteous public servants. Do you want to believe that your Sheriff is corrupt??? Do you want to accept that you are at the mercy of a corrupt system? No, and here's the way to feel secure. You must accept the evidence we present. Cops good, Avers bad!
Anyways, this reddit post sums up my questioning of the events:
Sheriff: 'Making a Murderer' is not a documentary
I love how the frame job couldn't have possibly have happened to Avery in the murder trial...when the very same people did a frame job to him on the rape trial! Perfectly logical.
I love how the frame job couldn't have possibly have happened to Avery in the murder trial...when the very same people did a frame job to him on the rape trial! Perfectly logical.
IISANDERII
Member
They never investigated Karen Halback's
or barely mentioned him. Any info there?
creepy roommate
All i see is bullshit talk from the sheriff to cover his own ass. Hopefully this will get more wind and set a new investigation but also more tests of the dna.
"A documentary puts things in chronological order and tells the story as it is. ... Ive heard things are skewed," said Hermann, who hasn't seen the series but has been discussing it with the department.
Nice, Sheriff.
The same kind of lazy, unfounded analysis that got us in this mess in the first place.
Nice, Sheriff.
The same kind of lazy, unfounded analysis that got us in this mess in the first place.
They did arrange things out of order to make it more understandable for the viewer. They would introduce specific witness testimony after presenting what the defense thought happened with a particular piece of evidence for example. It still doesn't change anything about the evidence, they just re-arrange the presentation to the viewer so it's more enjoyable to watch.
Yeah, but just the fact that "I didn't even bother to watch it.. I heard from someone else.. formed my opinion from that" sums up how they do things around there.
This was rough. He had to make decisions about his defense, whether or not to testify against his uncle, and whether or not to take a plea on top of his coerced confession. The investigators and/or his lawyers tell him his story is inconsistent and he doesn't understand what that means. There's no way this kid could understand what was happening. Do they not have social workers in Wisconsin?
Him being expected to take an active role in his defense is like asking an average 11 year old or bright 8 year old to defend themselves against two Grownup Police Officers accusing them of rape and murder.
The only other thing I'm wondering about, if you believe someone else killed Teresa. If for example, wild speculation here, you think the ex-boyfriend had something to do with it. What has happened to the guy since 2005? Generally if you go to the lengths of murdering someone, the pattern of violence will probably repeat again in the future. Especially if he got away with it...so has he had any domestic abuse charges since 2005? Any trouble with the law at all since then? Same goes for any other suspect you might think is responsible.
Exactly.
TwoDurans
"Never said I wasn't a hypocrite."
It bothered me that he was able to make these agreements at 16? You can't do anything in this country at that age without a parent's oversight, and in some cases, consent.
You think he
killed her, planted her car, planted her bones, whispered info that only the killer would know into Brendan's ear, and then planted Avery's blood somehow in her car? Or do you believe he merely killed her elsewhere and let the cops do all the planting of evidence?
chris121580
Member
Thank you for sharing this. This information should've been included in the documentary. I believe he's guilty but don't believe there was enough evidence to convict him
That article states that Stephen "molested" Brendan... Is there any evidence for that?
Orthogonal
Member
Just finished a 2 day marathon watch. Very well done and very compelling. The whole thing just makes me sick. As many others have said, I can't say for certain Steven is innocent but the State absolutely did not make the case that he did it and there are so many inconsitencies and unanswered questions to leave a ton of reasonable doubt.
The States story never makes any sense. No motive is established or even proposed. No murder weapon is found. Halbach's DNA is not found anywhere in the house or garage except for a single bullet found months later.
Also, the fact that Manitowoc sherriff department had to "officialy" recuse itself from the investigaion due to a conflict of interest with the pending lawsuit brought by Steven Avery yet manages to be the agency that collects every single piece evidence is mind boggling. How can the trial not be thrown out on this alone? Not to mention, every key piece of evidence was linked to Lenk and Colburn, the same deputies deposed in Steven Avery lawsuit. WTF!
Also, how the Jury went from 7 Not Guilty to 12 Guilty is highly suspect.
I would say, however, if I was on that jury, I would have a hard time saying guilty with everything I had seen, but the ramifications of a Not Guilty verdict on the Sherriff dept would have me fear for my own safety given their penchant for railroading the Averys.
Finally, poor Brendan. The kid clearly had no idea what was happening. The level of doublethink and inconsistency the Srate had to take in their position to try convict both is appalling. Logically, both versions of the States story cannot be correct. The fact that a court system will allow a DA to present wildly different accounts of a crime for 2 defendants in separate cases, for the same crime, is ludicrous. This is not about finding the truth or justice, it is Judicial Theater. The state witness even sat there and stated there was no evidence whatsoever connecting Brendan to the crime, but he's locked up anyway. Tragic.
The States story never makes any sense. No motive is established or even proposed. No murder weapon is found. Halbach's DNA is not found anywhere in the house or garage except for a single bullet found months later.
Also, the fact that Manitowoc sherriff department had to "officialy" recuse itself from the investigaion due to a conflict of interest with the pending lawsuit brought by Steven Avery yet manages to be the agency that collects every single piece evidence is mind boggling. How can the trial not be thrown out on this alone? Not to mention, every key piece of evidence was linked to Lenk and Colburn, the same deputies deposed in Steven Avery lawsuit. WTF!
Also, how the Jury went from 7 Not Guilty to 12 Guilty is highly suspect.
I would say, however, if I was on that jury, I would have a hard time saying guilty with everything I had seen, but the ramifications of a Not Guilty verdict on the Sherriff dept would have me fear for my own safety given their penchant for railroading the Averys.
Finally, poor Brendan. The kid clearly had no idea what was happening. The level of doublethink and inconsistency the Srate had to take in their position to try convict both is appalling. Logically, both versions of the States story cannot be correct. The fact that a court system will allow a DA to present wildly different accounts of a crime for 2 defendants in separate cases, for the same crime, is ludicrous. This is not about finding the truth or justice, it is Judicial Theater. The state witness even sat there and stated there was no evidence whatsoever connecting Brendan to the crime, but he's locked up anyway. Tragic.
RustyNails
Member
Can you describe us what happened to Teresa instead? I want to know what you think happened. I am open to the possibility that Avery killed her but I just do not see a convincing argument to prove that. Describe us the timeline from Oct 31st onwards.
Similar threads
- Locked