I dunno... in the one private phone convo with his mom, he doesn't know what the word "inconsistent" means. I think it's possible he heard of the book or movie and just had a general sense of what it was about. Or possibly someone fed him the line that he should say that's how he came up with everything.
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Making A Murderer - Netflix 10-part documentary series - S1 now streaming on Netflix
- Thread starter Armadilo
- Start date
I dunno... in the one private phone convo with his mom, he doesn't know what the word "inconsistent" means. I think it's possible he heard of the book or movie and just had a general sense of what it was about. Or possibly someone fed him the line that he should say that's how he came up with everything.
backflip10019
Member
In response to his mom's question: "Then why did you say that if you didn't do it?", he said something to the effect of "I was just guessing, like I do in my homework." That clearly shows that he didn't understand the idea of what an interrogation is, what the truth is and why he was there in the first place.
I also don't get why a kid of his intelligence and age would turn to a Patterson book about serial killing and not something more in the wheelhouse of an uneducated 16 year old. It's a very odd reference. To me, it seemed like he had done some research and was trying to dig his way out of an ever-deepening hole. I'm not saying he did specifically what he said he did initially; I just think he knew more than he lets on.
I'll say one thing, if he's guilty Steven Avery is one diabolical bastard. To plan that murder and then never waver in his interviews that he's innocent. The guy's demeanor never changed, just calm, even in the snippets of interviews with the police he never wavers in his story. I really hope somehow that we find out one way or another if he's guilty or innocent, like if he finally cracks and admits to it all.
Also the only solid evidence that he did the crime is the body turning up in his fire pit. The rest of the evidence was suspect (blood in SUV, key in his bedroom, bullet in garage) and there's so much he had to do to cover everything else up if he did.
that said if I had to go with my gut, I would guess he did it. But he probably should not have been convicted.
C'mon. I (and most of my friends) read Fear Street, Goosebumps, Stephen King, etc throughout school.. I wasn't researching how to kill someone. He may have been reading it because his friends were into that stuff.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
The dichotomy between what he did do to cover it up and what he didn't do is difficult to wrap my head around, assuming for the moment that he did it obviously. Just off the top...
On the one hand, he would have to be smart enough to completely clean his garage/home such that no physical evidence could be found. On the other hand, he doesn't just destroy the car or even clean up the blood in it.
He's smart enough to try to burn/dismember/hide the body, but not smart enough to actually move the body to another location. No it's actually worse than that since some bone fragments were found in the quarry. So either he moved the burned body from the quarry back to his home, or he moved just some of the body to the quarry rather than all of it.
And he's smart enough to do all that but dumb enough to conscript a mentally challenged kid to help him rape/murder, kind of a big loose end.
On the one hand, he would have to be smart enough to completely clean his garage/home such that no physical evidence could be found. On the other hand, he doesn't just destroy the car or even clean up the blood in it.
He's smart enough to try to burn/dismember/hide the body, but not smart enough to actually move the body to another location. No it's actually worse than that since some bone fragments were found in the quarry. So either he moved the burned body from the quarry back to his home, or he moved just some of the body to the quarry rather than all of it.
And he's smart enough to do all that but dumb enough to conscript a mentally challenged kid to help him rape/murder, kind of a big loose end.
backflip10019
Member
Yeah, my point exactly. The authors you just listed are authors I would expect a 16 year old to read. Patterson is something I'd expect a 46 year old stay-at-home mom to read.
Big Baybee
Member
I just can't wrap my mind around the fact that no blood was found in the bedroom or garage. As a juror this alone would make me go wtf, since the prosecution was stressing the rape/torture and murder in the garage.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
A crime thriller is a far cry from researching how to kill someone.
More relevantly, what video-games were you playing or what TV/film were you watching as a teenager? Is playing Call of Duty or watching James Bond a murder simulation? Are true-crime documentaries instructions on how to get away with murder?
Dassey never provided any unique information corroborated by physical evidence. To look at what he was subjugated to and feel like you can snuff out the 'real truth' in his numerous contradictory and ever-changing statements is hubris.
More relevantly, what video-games were you playing or what TV/film were you watching as a teenager? Is playing Call of Duty or watching James Bond a murder simulation? Are true-crime documentaries instructions on how to get away with murder?
Dassey never provided any unique information corroborated by physical evidence. To look at what he was subjugated to and feel like you can snuff out the 'real truth' in his numerous contradictory and ever-changing statements is hubris.
The bedroom is hard to believe. The garage, not so much. It's incredibly easy to clean a garage.
What's even more sad is the person he was talking to (I thought it was his grandma, but it might've been his mom) didn't know what the word "inconsistent" meant either.
Not that garage. There was shit everywhere. We're not talking about just the floor-there was literal junk everywhere. Splatter would have been on everything.
JHoNNy1OoO
Member
This is almost to a T exactly how I feel about the entire situation. The one thing that also jumped out at me was the whole Colburn testimony as well. How he called in about the license plate of Teresa's Rav4 like he was standing right behind it. You can see him panic when it was brought up and even more when he said he wasn't the one who said "99 Toyota". He found the car 100% before they found it at the Avery's.
I just do not see how a gun is fired into someones head in Avery's garage and not a single drop of Teresa's blood is found on any and all of the mess that was in there. I've hurt my mouth brushing my teeth and my electric toothbrush has sent blood all over the sink and after cleaning it up I still found tiny droplets of blood on the back and side of a couple of bottles I kept near the sink weeks later.
Like you said he makes the crime scene spotless but leaves the vehicle intact on his property and remains behind his house. That shit just does not add up.
His reaction was pretty priceless. One of the few times I literally laughed out loud while watching this. This was probably the point where I became 100% convinced the police were planting evidence.
Why the hell was the last third of Brendan's confession taken out of the trial? Why'd the defense agree to leave that out?
I can't deal with all this stuff with the investigators prying stories out of minors over multiple interviews.
How the hell did Steven Avery's trial use a jury pool from Manitowoc with how enormously prejudiced that area had been made by the prosecution?
I can't deal with all this stuff with the investigators prying stories out of minors over multiple interviews.
How the hell did Steven Avery's trial use a jury pool from Manitowoc with how enormously prejudiced that area had been made by the prosecution?
The theory that Colburn found the SUV on the Avery lot during an illegal search, then directed the search party to it to cover his tracks makes the most sense out of all the the stuff I've read about that call to dispatch. It is still scummy as fuck but way less sinister than him finding it off the property and planting it on the Avery lot.
Woody Invincible
Banned
I sincerely doubt this man could create a Dexter kill room, let alone even be bothered to clean up a crime scene. We are supposed to believe this man to be an elite forensics and pathogens master, capable of removing EVERYTHING, and then saying, 'ah fuck it let me leave my blood in the rav4."
Hearing him and his mother not know the word was just terrible. Somebody had to have told him to bring up that book.
Hearing him and his mother not know the word was just terrible. Somebody had to have told him to bring up that book.
Pyramid head
Banned
Did you even see the garage?? There is hundreds of tons of shit cluttered all over the place. It would have been all but humanly impossible to wipe that place clean of a murder victims blood and DNA (remembering to be devious enough to ensure that your own DNA re-covers the place afterwards to make it look like this Mr Kaplan/Mr Wolf tier clean-up job never took place).
Perhaps the inhuman degree of effort to make the actual murder invisible totally wiped him out, which is why he just left the remains in his garden in plain sight.
This is part of why I have reasonable doubt. He may have done it but the prosecution argued that he perfectly cleaned all this stuff up while not bothering to use the car Crusher and instead leaning some branches against her car.
So he is both a perfect criminal and the worst criminal at the same time.
Either way it is the kid that I have more reasonable doubt about. There us no physical evidence linking him to any crime.
Not only was the garage ultra cluttered but there were cracks in the floor. It's almost impossible for the murder to have happened there.
Orthogonal
Member
This seems the most likely. Steven Avery may be guilty, but the police are as corrupt as fuck too.
Avery's lawyer actually just answered your third point a few days ago:
They kept the case in Manitowoc because the prosecution had broadcast Brenden's confession to the whole state and tainted all potential juries. They figured the best bet for the defense was to hopefully get some people that actually might have known Avery and the corruption of the local police department on the jury who were sympathetic to his previous framing with the rape conviction in the 80s
He said in hindsight that was a bad call by him (obviously).
Far more believable than the "Hurrrr one night me and a relative saw lights on our property. It must have been them planting the car." bullshit story Avery was peddling.
ProfessorLobo
Banned
Yeah it's weird to think about. The quarry doesn't make any sense at all unless she was killed there.
RustyNails
Member
That garage was a dusty old shed with a ton of metal clutter horded. You dont even need to search for DNA. Just see if the items that were inventoried from the garage had a "wipe" to them, like they were cleaned with a bleach or spots in between the dust coverings.
The police shut down the property for 8 days. The vehicle could have been planted at any point during that time frame and it wouldn't have even been difficult as there were multiple roads entering the premises.
How is that less believable than absolutely no evidence being found in a cluttered garage with cracks on the floor?
Besides the fact that maybe an innocent man or 2 are in prison over this (again reasonable doubt, especially for Brendan) the scariest thing to me is to actually witness what fucking idiots are in positions of power on this country.
Whether you think they are criminals themselves can be argued... but at the very best these guys shown in the documentary are bumbling morons. Scary as fuck that your life could depend on them.
Whether you think they are criminals themselves can be argued... but at the very best these guys shown in the documentary are bumbling morons. Scary as fuck that your life could depend on them.
I see. I mean, the mass broadcasting of the confession and so many other details probably screwed them enough in most of the state anyhow, it just seemed strange that the issue of moving his trial wasn't brought up in the doc. Who knows if it ultimately would have helped any.
Wait what? You find the fact that Avery cleaned his entire garage, wiped his own DNA on everything then covered everything with dust and that made him so tired he decided to just dump the body in a fire pit and call it a day more plausible than him seeing headlights on his property?
Or was that sarcasm...
He's actually serious. The police even asked Avery if there were other ways into the junk yard before it was planted.
Hmmm huge coverup by law enforcement, which they then got the FBI to rubber-stamp with a fake test, or some hayseed that had a history of harassing the victim killing her and doing a complete shit job of hiding all the remains/evidence? You can ignore Brendan telling his mother what they did, but I don't have to.
Read my post on the last page for my thoughts on the matter. Basically, it didn't require anyone other than Colbourn and/or Lenk to complete the cover-up. As soon as the defense started using the argument that the police could have manipulated the case, the state/Feds would do everything in their power to prevent that defense from sticking, even if it meant using a bullshit test to "prove" the blood didn't come from a vial.
And in case you forgot, the two detectives questioning Brendan TOLD him to tell his mom those things.
Big Baybee
Member
A shit job of hiding evidence? You believe he cleaned his bedroom and garage spotless, while keeping it looking like a complete shithole? His dna was found all over the place. Nothing from her. He may have killed her, but it damn sure didn't happen as the state said it did.
RustyNails
Member
So, did you see the memo that was sent to FBI? They practically spell it out that they want to tie the evidence to a suspect. Its not difficult to imagine a collusion between authorities. The whole system is fucked. That was the point of the documentary.
Watch this instead of listening to the second season of serial.
If there was a cover up I doubt the FBI was complicit in it. They had to create a test from scratch, and were under pressure by prosecution to get it done before the trial was over.
I think it was just a shoddy test they put together as fast as possible... which they admitted during the trial.
I think that memo was sent to the state-run DNA lab, not the FBI.
Which also makes this a lot more interesting:
http://m.jsonline.com/news/statepol...-crime-lab-manager-b99518448z1-307115711.html
It was really a great watch. Personally I have never seen a documentary on a case like this with so much footage.
RustyNails
Member
Oh my bad. Still it shows a level of collusion that sounded like 'Ol Boys Club. FBI, not sure why they cooked up that test to prove the results were inconclusive. I'd like to see an oversightreview of that test.
Exactly, if there was a cover-up I don't think anyone knew about it except for the Manitowoc officers involved. The Feds used the test because they knew the theory the defense was using and needed to "prove" that it was wrong, as opposed to investigating whether it was right.
Future PhaZe
Member
lack of physical evidence given a throat slashing and rape is hilarious
but thats why i didnt watch more than 2 episodes of this, knew which way the wind was blowing and didn't want to get distraught over it
but thats why i didnt watch more than 2 episodes of this, knew which way the wind was blowing and didn't want to get distraught over it
The police didn't know Avery abused Brendan. How could they tell him to tell his mother what they didn't know?
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Brother probably killed her. His record alone makes you wonder and he also hid from police when they wanted DNA tests. He lives on the same property.
Both Bobby and Scott are suspect.
My g/f also thinks that. I don't know though..possible.
Woody Invincible
Banned
Yeah it was just as good as the Paradise Lost docs, which were fantastic.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Could be but then again the brother is that family's "piece of work". He's that crazy guy who sexually assaults people and stalked customers.
Steven Avery isn't getting out 'cause it will then cost Calumet and Manitowoc country more than $36 million + Brendan's cut. Obama won't even give the pardon.
World will go on. The system won.
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