That could quite possibly be right. Now that I remember, Sgt. Coburn had that dispatch call where he read off the plate number of the RAV4 and he guessed the year and make of the car after dispatch said who it was registered to even though he denies being in the presence of it during that call. The call was also two days before the vehicle was even found. If he wasn't in front of it, why is he calling dispatch for a plate check? For all we know, he could've found the vehicle with the body nearby and the sheriffs could have burnt the body themselves with the plan to plant it all in the Avery scrapyard.
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Making A Murderer - Netflix 10-part documentary series - S1 now streaming on Netflix
- Thread starter Armadilo
- Start date
Dirtyshubb
Member
I think that's what happened, or something similar at least. I mean we have clear examples that during Steven's initial conviction that they ignored a police officer saying that they were investigating the wrong guy so we know how determined they were to convict Steven.
Just watching episode 9 now with that piece of shit lead investigator saying the evidence showed Brendon was at the scene and then being forced to admit there wasn't any evidence. Just infuriating to watch but vital to let people know what goes on in the world.
Just watching episode 9 now with that piece of shit lead investigator saying the evidence showed Brendon was at the scene and then being forced to admit there wasn't any evidence. Just infuriating to watch but vital to let people know what goes on in the world.
Rodeo Clown
All aboard! The Love train!
The key is one of the most suspect things in the entire case. The only DNA isn't from Teresa, even though she would've been the only one using the thing every day? And it takes the cops like seven sweeps of the house to find it when it was apparently out in the open? What?
LFMartins86
Member
The case is full of suspect things. They think her throat was cut on the bed yet they don't find a single drop of blood on the carpets or the walls and they don't run tests on the mattress? They think she was shot on the garage and once again there's not a drop of blood anywhere? I just doesn't make sense.
I truly believe that the person who deleted the voicemail messages was the killer has there was something there that would incriminate him. I think Sgt. Coburn found the car on November 3rd, possibly with the body inside, and planted the evidence to frame Steven.
We are talking about a department who knowingly let a brutal rapist out on the streets were he made at least 2 other victims (rape isn´t always reported so it could be more) just so they could send Steven to jail.
I truly believe that the person who deleted the voicemail messages was the killer has there was something there that would incriminate him. I think Sgt. Coburn found the car on November 3rd, possibly with the body inside, and planted the evidence to frame Steven.
We are talking about a department who knowingly let a brutal rapist out on the streets were he made at least 2 other victims (rape isn´t always reported so it could be more) just so they could send Steven to jail.
DietRob
i've been begging for over 5 years.
I would be very very interested to read your impressions after you get done watching this. As someone from the community in and around this case your input into this thread would be great to have.
edit: nvm i see your input on the previous page.
I finished watching today.... I'll spoiler tag some stuff.
I can't help but feel like both of these guys were railroaded with some very sketchy evidence. It blew my mind everything about this case seems very shady. Despite the press conference saying the county officials would not be involved every piece of evidence presented was found by them. This documentary to me shows just how strong that blue shield is in protecting their own. This happened in a small town/county. There is no doubt in my mind that this type of stuff happens all the time all over the country. Especially in the minority community
Oh also did anyone else get a creepy sort of vibe from the
Ex-Boyfriend that was helping with the search. I thought for sure something would come of that.
And who could possibly have the voicemail password to delete the messages? The ex-boyfriend.
Dirtyshubb
Member
you also have the fact they kept the car on their land, even though they have a car crusher. Steven apparently kept the car key but hid it (it came loose from shaking the bookshelf) which is pointless since the car was left in open view so why hide it? You have the time discrepancies with the police on site. So much stuff that screams conspiracy, can't believe any sane person could convict someone with this bullshit evidence.
Rodeo Clown
All aboard! The Love train!
Oh my god, that infuriated me.
Not only is there no blood, there's not a shred of evidence to support the theory that she was chained up in the bed. Where's the rope, where are the chains or handcuffs at? Wouldn't there be marks on the bed posts? Some signs of a struggle anywhere? Where's the knife they used to stab her? Christ.
LFMartins86
Member
Yup. It seems that there was barely any effort to try and investigate him. It is just disgusting the way this case was investigated. Oh, and Kratz was such a scummy guy. Those texts he sent, what a piece of shit.
Not even when they jackhammer up the concrete floor to check if blood seeped in to the cracks. There was a whole lot of stuff in that garage; if someone was shot in the head with a gun inside it, blood would have gotten on something that got overlooked. Hell, when I get a bloody nose, I'm amazed at how far the drops of blood can spread from just one drop.
LFMartins86
Member
Even if you think that Steven was so good at cleaning up the evidence then why the hell would he leave the car on a visible spot and with very visible spots of his own blood in the car?
Seriously. I mean they own a SCRAPYARD. He could've broke that car down to the basic parts and scattered them throughout the yard.
Dirtyshubb
Member
They found Brendon Guilty?!?! Absolutely fucking disgusting, I feel so bad for the poor kid. What a gut punch
Well I went through this completely over the past 2 days.
How the fuck did the police department explain the obviously tampered blood sample dna kit? The original seal was broken, resealed at some point, and the tube had a pin hole from a syringe or whatever. I mean honestly WTF.
rocketskates
Member
Just started episode 4.
Based NETFLIX.
Based NETFLIX.
Just watched this.
Could the officer have looked anymore guilty? You can literally see him think: "fuck, they caught me."
wild_ookami
Neo Member
I'm on episode three, and my anger just keeps rising.
Why would anyone trust that the same police who were in the first case with Avery would provide legit evidence during investigation in the second case?
Why would anyone trust that the same police who were in the first case with Avery would provide legit evidence during investigation in the second case?
Agent_Carnage
Member
Hey man I live in Wisconsin and near the setting of all of this. Wisconsin is a great place dispite shitty ass governor
Watching episode 4,
so many assholes in this police department/sheriff's office etc. but the guy that's pissed me off the most so far is the kid's attorney. Doesn't even try to fight the obvious coercion, blames it all on the evil uncle, and now he's blaming his mother for his changing stories. All the while soaking up the cameras like a movie star on the red carpet. Fuck this piece of shit.
Not finished yet, but based on facebook posts by people who live in the area, they just want this to go away. And they hate Steve Avery.
Followed this here in Wisconsin and always thought something was fishy with these convictions, but damn, I didn't even realize the sheer depths of questionable shit that went on here. Unbelievable.
Edit: I think I hate Kachinsky and O'Kelly more than anyone involved in this. They had a duty to protect and help Brendan Dassey and they completely took advantage of him.
Edit II:
The part with Colburn and the license plate has me straight up wondering if there was a murder at all. What if it was a car accident? Unless there really is proof she was shot, I guess. Which there seemed to be certainty about even from Avery's lawyers. Just, with how weak the evidence overall is, I got questions even going that far down.
Edit: I think I hate Kachinsky and O'Kelly more than anyone involved in this. They had a duty to protect and help Brendan Dassey and they completely took advantage of him.
Edit II:
OH, IT'S /THAT/ KEN KRATZ? WOOOOOOW WHAT A PIECE OF SHIT
Contains Spoilers for all of Season 1.
Well, just finished watching the whole thing. I can't belive that you can get sent to jail for life with that little evidence. And there are some highly suspect things that really needs to get investigated.
- The key lacking DNA from the owner of the car, the only DNA found on the key is Steven Averys.
- Steven Averys blood being found in the car, but no fingerprints, so either he wore gloves or he wiped down the car, if he had gloves on, how did he bleed in the car, and why is there not smudge marks in the blood that you normaly see when someone bleeds from the fingers, and if he wiped down the car removing his fingerprints how could he miss the blood on the console of the car.
- The DA are saying she were killed in the garage, shot 11 times, but there was no blood, and if he would have cleaned the area why did they still find Steven Averys DNA in the cracks of the concrete floor?
- They found her blood in the trunk of the car, why would her blood be there if he burned her in the pit just outside of Averys house?
There is no possible way of saying without a reasonal doubt that Steven Arvery murderd her.
And not to mention that Steven had no earlier history of violence, or attemped rapes or such. To kill a person you don't know, just spur of the moment rape and murder someone is very rare. In most cases when this happen there is a history of rapes/attempted rapes that then escalate into murder. Rougly 70% of people that are murdered are killed by someone they know, so that they didn't even look in that direction is so negligent that it makes my blood boil.
And that they are able to convict a 16-year old boy that are really limited based just on a coerced confession just shows how fucked the justice system is.
- The key lacking DNA from the owner of the car, the only DNA found on the key is Steven Averys.
- Steven Averys blood being found in the car, but no fingerprints, so either he wore gloves or he wiped down the car, if he had gloves on, how did he bleed in the car, and why is there not smudge marks in the blood that you normaly see when someone bleeds from the fingers, and if he wiped down the car removing his fingerprints how could he miss the blood on the console of the car.
- The DA are saying she were killed in the garage, shot 11 times, but there was no blood, and if he would have cleaned the area why did they still find Steven Averys DNA in the cracks of the concrete floor?
- They found her blood in the trunk of the car, why would her blood be there if he burned her in the pit just outside of Averys house?
There is no possible way of saying without a reasonal doubt that Steven Arvery murderd her.
And not to mention that Steven had no earlier history of violence, or attemped rapes or such. To kill a person you don't know, just spur of the moment rape and murder someone is very rare. In most cases when this happen there is a history of rapes/attempted rapes that then escalate into murder. Rougly 70% of people that are murdered are killed by someone they know, so that they didn't even look in that direction is so negligent that it makes my blood boil.
And that they are able to convict a 16-year old boy that are really limited based just on a coerced confession just shows how fucked the justice system is.
HORRORSHØW
Member
4 or 5 episodes in
fuck 'em all, man. those fucking snakes. shit is infuriating. feel for brendan the most
fuck 'em all, man. those fucking snakes. shit is infuriating. feel for brendan the most
It seemed to me that a lot of people were still holding Steven responsible for attacking Penny Beernsten. I mean pretty much all the cops that were asked about it seemed to be trying to say that he actually did it, despite all evidence to the contrary.
internetwolf
Banned
All the twists!!!
This show is amazing!!
On Episode 6 now and I'm LOVING IT
This show is amazing!!
On Episode 6 now and I'm LOVING IT
Vampire On Titus
Member
Just finished the series and I feel like screaming at someone.
Steven's defense was so good too. It's obvious that certain jurors simply had their minds made up going into the trial.
Doubt doesn't get much more reasonable than that.
Brendan Dassey's trail was almost crazier.
WHERES THE BLOOD!? YOURE SERIOUSLY TELLING ME THERES NO FUCKING BLOOD ANYWHERE!?
For christ sakes theres a tampered vial of Steve's blood that the investigation had access to. The chemical test the prosecution ordered to determine if it was the same blood in the car was inconclusive.
Brendan Dassey's trail was almost crazier.
How could anyone see those interrogation tapes and not believe the confession was coerced?
I'm just glad Steven didn't kill himself in prison. I was seriously preparing myself for that since around episode 7 or so.
I know, it kinda shows how incompetent those officers are, doubting he's innocent when they have conclusive evidence that someone else attacked her. The dude who attacked Penny has the profile of someone who could fo something like the murder of Theresa. He fits the bill, Steven don't.
Vampire On Titus
Member
It's more sinister than incompetent. Their department framed him and deliberately covered it up. So, despite everything, they're still clinging to their lies.
Maaaaaardy
Member
Aww yis! Love stuff like this, anyone got round to it yet?
The One and Done
Member
Watched the first 4 eps. This is sad.
Even the judge seemed to think so when reading his sentencing statement.
I really hope this documentary opens up a lot of doors for Steven and Brandon like the first season of Serial did for Adnan. Hopefully there is a lawyer or law firm willing to work for them pro bono.
Infinite_Daremo
Member
I just binged watched all of this over a 2 day period after seeing this thread. Fuck me, never felt actual anger at a documentary before. So many crooked cops!
My theory:
Rest is history.
Ex-Boyfriend called Teresa upset that she was cheating on him with her roommate, leaving her two angry voicemails, telling her he was on the way to her apartment. Ex-Boyfriend killed Teresa in her apartment, in a moment of passion, with a gunshot to the head. There would be evidence, but the apartment was never searched. He put her in the back of the car and drove her to the quarry to burn the body, and ditched the car somewhere.
Colburn found it and reported it, and called Lenk. The police did normal investigative work, then learned that Steven was the last person to see her. Time to kill two bird with one stone. He then had Colburn move the car, in the middle of the night (Averys claimed to see headlights). Meanwhile, the ex-boyfriend then erased the voicemails. He was questioned by the police where they dropped hints that they thought Steven Avery did it and he wasn't a suspect. Maybe they even dropped hints that the car might be in the junkyard. He then sent a search team member to the Avery junkyard, a specific section, with a camera, where magically the car was.
Lenk wanted to plant he key right away but there wasn't a moment to do it and he needed Steven's DNA and to clean the key. He cleaned the key and planted Steven's DNA on it , then planted it on the fourth day. He also planted the blood the first day, at 6PM, like his first report said, which he later tried to coverup.
Colburn found it and reported it, and called Lenk. The police did normal investigative work, then learned that Steven was the last person to see her. Time to kill two bird with one stone. He then had Colburn move the car, in the middle of the night (Averys claimed to see headlights). Meanwhile, the ex-boyfriend then erased the voicemails. He was questioned by the police where they dropped hints that they thought Steven Avery did it and he wasn't a suspect. Maybe they even dropped hints that the car might be in the junkyard. He then sent a search team member to the Avery junkyard, a specific section, with a camera, where magically the car was.
Lenk wanted to plant he key right away but there wasn't a moment to do it and he needed Steven's DNA and to clean the key. He cleaned the key and planted Steven's DNA on it , then planted it on the fourth day. He also planted the blood the first day, at 6PM, like his first report said, which he later tried to coverup.
Rest is history.
Radio Lab did a segment about Penny a while ago
http://www.radiolab.org/story/278180-reasonable-doubt/
http://www.radiolab.org/story/278180-reasonable-doubt/
Yeah, you're right, and that's even scarier.
I still need to finish episode 9 and 10 will do that later this week..8 episodes exhausted me for the moment. I feel terrible for brendan but also for steven why are people and i mean cops and other idiots doing this shit towards the common folk like me and you why? why why why?
Just finished it. Holy shit it was amazing. Absolutely riveting.
We need to spoiler discussion?
We need to spoiler discussion?
I don't understand how there was just a little 1 minute part about how the cop called in the missing RAV4 3 days before it was found. That was such a massive piece of evidence, the entire case against Avery should have collapsed. Am I missing something about that?
Episode 8:
I think the defense really messed up by making the argument that they weren't trying to frame an innocent man, but were doing anything to put away a man they thought guilty. The prosecution spun that around on them easily and made the jury think "well even if all the evidence isn't lined up they all think he's guilty so whatever!" I understand why they didn't want to say "The cops killed her and planned all this from the start!" as cop loving mid-westerners wouldn't go for it, but as the prosecutor said the idea that a 3rd party killed her and did some of this to prey on their biases is also incredibly hard to believe. They should have gone with the theory that the cops just came upon her car, found her body, and then decided after to frame Avery.
Really though, the FBI coming in with no EDTA or whatever pretty much fucked them over
Really though, the FBI coming in with no EDTA or whatever pretty much fucked them over
Mind you, the judge forbade them to implicate anyone else for this crime. So while they were allowed to argue that Avery was beig framed, they were never allowed to outright accuse the cops or just Lenk for the murder
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Lmao
im as infuriated as anyone else having finished the series but does anyone actually fucking believe as grossly incompetent and awful and hardcore framing the cops were, that they actually murdered someone? Holy shit lol
The One and Done
Member
Ok stop with the wall of spoilers. At least mention the episode number above it
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