Oh my sweet summer child.
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Making A Murderer - Netflix 10-part documentary series - S1 now streaming on Netflix
- Thread starter Armadilo
- Start date
Oh my sweet summer child.
Nappuccino
Member
. . . what about everything that happens before Steve was arrested the second time?
Vincent Alexander
Member
Good point.
The only two things for 100% certain after documentary is that Kratz is a complete piece of shit. And Avery got fucked for 18 years of his life for a sexual assault he didn't commit.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
What was missing?
Fourth Storm
Member
It's been years, and I only just skimmed this website (again?), but this website raises some of the issues I recall reading about: http://www.westmemphisthreefacts.com/
In particular, the candle wax forensic evidence was cited on the white board which the jury used when they were reaching their verdict. Jessie confessed numerous times to authorities and, although his IQ is not the highest, he is not mentally handicapped as he is portrayed.
maniac-kun
Member
Watched until episode 4 so far. Did they
The whole story is very infuriating and its good that it gets released so that more people know about it.
drop the first testamony of the boy?
The whole story is very infuriating and its good that it gets released so that more people know about it.
I don't know if he did it or not but there is so much reasonable doubt. No physical evidence linking him to the crime not to mention the shakey confession.
Even if I did think he did it, I would still find him being imprisoned questionable. The fact that there was never a mistrial is really odd to me.
Nope. In fact, they used his story to convict Brendan and a completely different one to convict Steven. Apparently she was killed twice in 2 different places.
maniac-kun
Member
The fuck is wrong with law & justice in the USA? ;_;
For sure. His trial was pretty much a joke in my opinion.
DAs want convictions and police want arrests. That's how they get promoted.
itwasTuesday
He wasn't alone.
"Steven avery: guilty or framed" is on fox news right now. Say will shed new light on conviction, 60 minute show.
Well he was definitely framed. Whether he's innocent or guilty we don't actually know.
Half way through episode 5 and I'm more amazed each second.
Oh my gosh!!! This just happened! No time delay at all.
Oh my gosh!!! This just happened! No time delay at all.
itwasTuesday
He wasn't alone.
I'm with you there.
ReadingRambo
Member
Sorry it's not entertaining enough for you.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
It's not sweat. It's neucleated DNA. Basically just non-blood DNA. Which still sounds bad until you hear that the examiner on the scene had been looking around inside Avery's car, then went to the RAV4 and examined the hood latch, all without changing gloves. This doesn't mean for certain that there was contamination, but as with so many other things here, it leaves the question of foul play or fuckery open.
Info about possible contamination taken from filmmakers' interview here: http://youtu.be/UwfNVd68iSg
My wife was in tears in some parts of the show. Especially during Brendan's. Trial
We don't understand the American justice system. We know that the Obama administration can't pardon him but what about the possibility of the federal government asking the local government for a reinvestigation?
Can the federal Supreme Court ask for a retrial?
We don't understand the American justice system. We know that the Obama administration can't pardon him but what about the possibility of the federal government asking the local government for a reinvestigation?
Can the federal Supreme Court ask for a retrial?
Coming to this thread everyday is like Groundhog Day.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
I was him yesterday, after having just discovered the series and doing a bit of digging on my own. Took some help from folks here and some more digging to find that those other "doubts" had already been addressed (though whether the explanations are satisfactory to someone is up to that person).
Go easy on us MaM noobs
It's a very confusing and complex issue. There is currently a petition on the White House site to do a Federal investigation of the Manitowoc County Sheriff's Office. If this petition gets enough votes the White House has to respond.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...manitowoc-county-and-calumet-county-wisconsin
Also-interesting post on Reddit:
It's a very confusing and complex issue. There is currently a petition on the White House site to do a Federal investigation of the Manitowoc County Sheriff's Office. If this petition gets enough votes the White House has to respond.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...manitowoc-county-and-calumet-county-wisconsin
Also-interesting post on Reddit:
Thanks!!! Can a non American sign this petition?
Vincent Alexander
Member
Hrm...not scientific, but for damn sure interesting.It's a very confusing and complex issue. There is currently a petition on the White House site to do a Federal investigation of the Manitowoc County Sheriff's Office. If this petition gets enough votes the White House has to respond.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...manitowoc-county-and-calumet-county-wisconsin
Also-interesting post on Reddit:
neurosisxeno
Member
Considering it defies Gravity?
Vincent Alexander
Member
The one on the dash right in front of the ignition is the one that truly baffles me. Like...how would it get there? His cut was in such an odd place that he'd have to like...bend his hand in an awkward fucking way and touch it to a place no normal person would ever touch. For any reason.
JHoNNy1OoO
Member
The cut was also on his left hand and the ignition would be on the right side. No cut on his right hand and of course no finger prints inside the entire vehicle. So if he was wearing gloves, there would be no blood. If he wasn't wearing gloves and leaking blood all over the place there would be finger prints. The entire thing makes no freaking sense.
That one looked normal to me. If I had a cut on my finger in the spot he did I could see myself gingerly turning the key in the ignition with my finger out in about that motion.
It make even more sense on the left, then. Have you ever turned your car on with your left hand? I have for various reasons over the year. You would naturally have a stutter stop half way around like that.
SyenceLabb
Member
it looks just like two dabs from a swab, then later smeared in two opposing arcs. I can't imagine any motion on a hand that could create that smear pattern. But what the fuck do I know.
I could definitely see it, especially if you were doing it with your left hand. Finger that is cut away to protect it, stutter stop in the middle when you have to apply more force when it hits the ignition mechanism. That would curl it in a bit when you have to strain your hand muscles a little more. I could definitely see it more so with a left hand than a right.
Ziltoidia 9
Member
I also dont see how he would be dumb enough to not notice he smeared it . Additionally, shouldn't there be DNA on the tree limbs and such that was pilled on the car? Or can you only test DNA on non-organic matter?
I honestly don't even see why the fuck he would put her in the SUV no matter what but what the Hell do I know.
Wow i just watched this entirely. I have to say, from an artistic point of view, this is incredible. Actually the 4 first episodes are so strong on a human level. That felt like a david simons show except.. it's true.. After that the whole trial is a little long and less focused on the characters, so it lost some of his strength, until the end of course.
Now on the affair, wow... It's pretty clear that, despite what the filmakers seem to say, the series is heavily putting the spectator in Brendan and Steve's shoes. Cops, accusation, even the victim's brother are all showed with distance and it's difficult be on their side at any point. It's actually super frustrating how the documentary makes the whole cop conspiracy theory incredibly obvious, yet justice and attorneys are absolutely unable to prove any of it.
Like.. the Brendan interview. At THAT point, not knowing the case at all, i was asking myself.. "wait.. is this actually true ? That cannot be true right.." But this is interesting. Seeing that interview with the comments makes you feel it's terribly obvious that they made him say whatever they wanted. And you're thinking.. it's so wrong, how is it even on tape? I mean if they do something like that why would they film it... And then you think, cause it's not that clear and even the accusation used that video to show its case, so they weren't embarrassed by it nor anything.
I think the feeling that the documentary is really pushing the bad cops theory comes from the people interviewed, the attorneys or some other person don't let any doubt in their observations. They make them look sooooo guilty than when Steve's attorney tells the jury "the cops didn't kill the girl obviously, and they didn't try to put an innocent in jail" you're like "wel what if they did ??" Cause if the will to arrest Steve has been so strong for the sheriff. It's certainly a weird coincidence that this murder happened, there, at that moment... But the fact that the attorneys could never find any other potential responsible for the crime, nor go far enough with their accusation of the cops, killed the case. The jury just didn't have anything else to imagine. Same for the brother of the victim. He was so eager to see them convincted (despite having no reason to think they were guilty in first place) cause he hadn't anyone else to blame for it.
What was missing from the trial was any kind of other leads... If it's not Steve it's somoene else, and then there is a motive, if it's not the cops. Actually something super weird about what's showed of the trial is how motives were never ever talked about lol.I can't see steve guilty simply cause there is no motives.. it would look like a random serial killer murder.. except.; Nothing in his life before that seems to leads to that. The whole nonsense horror crime scene with Brendan's testimony... It doesn't look like it would be a random first crime for somoene. I mean it looks like something he would have done before, if he liked to be so sadistic and violent with a woman like that.
Sorry those are my random observations lol.
Also they don't mention again the whole cousin story from the beginning. We know so little and yet it seems to be the base of the whole story. It should have been investigated more maybe. You can feel there is more to it. Like.. Something that would be the reason of a fierce hate against that family for her and her husband. That could have make everything more concrete for the jury.
Anyway time to sleep
Now on the affair, wow... It's pretty clear that, despite what the filmakers seem to say, the series is heavily putting the spectator in Brendan and Steve's shoes. Cops, accusation, even the victim's brother are all showed with distance and it's difficult be on their side at any point. It's actually super frustrating how the documentary makes the whole cop conspiracy theory incredibly obvious, yet justice and attorneys are absolutely unable to prove any of it.
Like.. the Brendan interview. At THAT point, not knowing the case at all, i was asking myself.. "wait.. is this actually true ? That cannot be true right.." But this is interesting. Seeing that interview with the comments makes you feel it's terribly obvious that they made him say whatever they wanted. And you're thinking.. it's so wrong, how is it even on tape? I mean if they do something like that why would they film it... And then you think, cause it's not that clear and even the accusation used that video to show its case, so they weren't embarrassed by it nor anything.
I think the feeling that the documentary is really pushing the bad cops theory comes from the people interviewed, the attorneys or some other person don't let any doubt in their observations. They make them look sooooo guilty than when Steve's attorney tells the jury "the cops didn't kill the girl obviously, and they didn't try to put an innocent in jail" you're like "wel what if they did ??" Cause if the will to arrest Steve has been so strong for the sheriff. It's certainly a weird coincidence that this murder happened, there, at that moment... But the fact that the attorneys could never find any other potential responsible for the crime, nor go far enough with their accusation of the cops, killed the case. The jury just didn't have anything else to imagine. Same for the brother of the victim. He was so eager to see them convincted (despite having no reason to think they were guilty in first place) cause he hadn't anyone else to blame for it.
What was missing from the trial was any kind of other leads... If it's not Steve it's somoene else, and then there is a motive, if it's not the cops. Actually something super weird about what's showed of the trial is how motives were never ever talked about lol.I can't see steve guilty simply cause there is no motives.. it would look like a random serial killer murder.. except.; Nothing in his life before that seems to leads to that. The whole nonsense horror crime scene with Brendan's testimony... It doesn't look like it would be a random first crime for somoene. I mean it looks like something he would have done before, if he liked to be so sadistic and violent with a woman like that.
Sorry those are my random observations lol.
Also they don't mention again the whole cousin story from the beginning. We know so little and yet it seems to be the base of the whole story. It should have been investigated more maybe. You can feel there is more to it. Like.. Something that would be the reason of a fierce hate against that family for her and her husband. That could have make everything more concrete for the jury.
Anyway time to sleep
bonesmccoy
Banned
It's kind of funny reading people's comments who are upset that a documentary was biased to a certain POV. This is what almost every documentary does!
They weren't allowed to suggest any other suspects though, right?
They weren't allowed to suggest any other suspects though, right?
Really ? Ha.. Cannot they even create doubts in other directions ?? Cause that would have helped.
Ziltoidia 9
Member
I also still don't see how all that stuff could be done to her in the bedroom and there isn't a trace of her in it.
SneakersSO
Member
No, they couldn't. The State of Wisconsin has a law that only allows you the right to present another suspect as proof of innocence only if you can establish & prove their motive. Hilariously though, the prosecution, or any prosecution in the State of Wisconsin for that matter, does not have to establish motive when aiming to get a conviction of a serious crime.
keep going or you'll miss the best part
This is my big takeaway. Where did he supposedly murder her if it wasn't in the bedroom or garage?
Nappuccino
Member
in both the bedroom and garage.
neurosisxeno
Member
Depends on who Kratz was prosecuting. If it's Steven then she was killed in the Garage--if it's Brendan she was killed in the bedroom, or the garage, or the firepit, or the quarry, or Leakin Park.
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