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[Frodo]

Try not to cry

That scene was so ridiculous.

 

[ezrarh]

Those are all unanswered questions, really.
According to the law it was Steven who murdered her, but can you trust the Manitowoc county for that decision when they've showed their inability before?

I guess the message of the documentary is more than just a plain simple "Is Avery innocent?", but rather can you trust the judicial system? Can you trust a system that failed that person before to judge them again and be right this time? Do you think the judicial system interest is justice above anything else? Super scary thought.

Regardless of whether Steven did it or not, this is my biggest take away. Granted I already have a bias against the police and that you shouldn't talk to them, this just further reduced my faith in the system.

 

[DroidDev]

Only thing I can't really reconcile is that the framing was almost too good. And finding burnt up remains on a night that Avery just happens to have a bon fire goes well beyond coincidence

I think it is likely Avery did do it but the Police had nothing concrete and "made" the evidence. I expect Avery killed her somewhere not in the garage or house and moved the car off site.

The Police found the car and key in it somewhere, decided to move it back on to his property and cleaned it of any of their DNA. Then planted his blood in it. Same with the key

Then targeted the weakest members of the family to help them (the children).

The biggest evidence though is the bones in his fire pit which I think was entirely his own doing. And is corroborated by him apparently telling a cell mate in his first stint that he could get away with murder by burning everything

Yeah, the more I read about this case, the more I think Avery wasn't framed. The framing would have to be too good, too many corroborators in the conspiracy.

Also, the key didn't have Avery's blood on it, it had Avery's perspiration on it. His perspiration was also found under the hood of the car as well, which was not mentioned in the documentary.

source: http://www.hngn.com/articles/167905...-from-steven-avery-case-see-the-full-list.htm

Still no excuse for Manitowoc County to be so involved in the investigation though.

 

[FlyinJ]

Yeah, the more I read about this case, the more I think Avery wasn't framed. The framing would have to be too good, too many corroborators in the conspiracy.

Also, the key didn't have Avery's blood on it, it had Avery's perspiration on it. His perspiration was also found under the hood of the car as well, which was not mentioned in the documentary.

source: http://www.hngn.com/articles/167905...-from-steven-avery-case-see-the-full-list.htm

Still no excuse for Manitowoc County to be so involved in the investigation though.

Slight correction- both things had Avery's DNA on them. You can't tell where the DNA came from... There is no test to see if it's skin flakes etc. as a matter of fact, there is no DNA in your sweat. The sweat can have skin flakes in it some times.

The "sweat" line came from Kratz, because he's obsessed with painting Avery as this crazed sweating rape beast. Pretty disingenuous on his part, but as you've seen that's how he operates.

 

[someday]

The score composer is the same composer of The Last of Us. Can definitely pick up lots of guitar elements that sound similar to that.

That explains it. I love the intro music and it was sort of familiar.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

Yeah, the more I read about this case, the more I think Avery wasn't framed. The framing would have to be too good, too many corroborators in the conspiracy.

Also, the key didn't have Avery's blood on it, it had Avery's perspiration on it. His perspiration was also found under the hood of the car as well, which was not mentioned in the documentary.

source: http://www.hngn.com/articles/167905...-from-steven-avery-case-see-the-full-list.htm

Still no excuse for Manitowoc County to be so involved in the investigation though.

It wasn't perspiration. It was nucleated cells. Basically just generic non-blood cells. Which they literally could have rubbed on the key from a sock laying in his room. The hood had the same DNA, but the examiner who found it stated under cross examination that he had been looking inside Avery's car, then went and examined her car (including the hood) without changing gloves.

There's a video from an interview with the documentary makers on one of the last two pages (100ppp) I put up where they discuss that and why it wasn't put in the documentary.

 

[UFO]

Yeah, the more I read about this case, the more I think Avery wasn't framed. The framing would have to be too good, too many corroborators in the conspiracy.

How so? Colborn and Lenk could have planted all the main evidence- the key, the bullet, and the blood in the vehicle. They had complete access to his property and were the ones who actually "found" the key and bullet. They didn't need to be involved or corroborating with the real killers or moving of bones. The bones weren't found until Nov 10th, 5 days after the police took control of his property, and any of the possible killers had free reign on his land, including Scott Tadych, and her brother and ex-boyfriend. Other then those 3 things there's no evidence, just phone calls thing, fuzzy handcuffs that. No corroboration for that, just ignorance.

 

[PopeReal]

Try not to cry

That guy is such a fucking slimeball.

"Hey kid you have 2 choices, you either are sorry or not sorry. But I am here to help you."

Fuck him and his fake ribbon theatrics.

 

[The Beard]

Try not to cry

You bastard!

I'm crying my eyes out over here.

 

[bebop242]

The fact that the key was scrubbed clean and only had Averys DNA on it is suspicious. I suppose he could have washed it to remove blood from it, but i wonder how hard you need to clean the key to remove all dna that was embedded onto it from years of handling.

 

[Macheezmo]

That guy is such a fucking slimeball.

"Hey kid you have 2 choices, you either are sorry or not sorry. But I am here to help you."

Fuck him and his fake ribbon theatrics.

At first I thought that guy was trying to show how easy it was to coerce Brendan into admitting anything, but it turned out he's just human garbage.

 

[The Beard]

The fact that the key was scrubbed clean and only had Averys DNA on it is suspicious. I suppose he could have washed it to remove blood from it, but i wonder how hard you need to clean the key to remove all dna that was embedded onto it from years of handling.

A rag with some bleach on it would probably clean it in seconds.

 

[Orthogonal]

At first I thought that guy was trying to show how easy it was to coerce Brendan into admitting anything, but it turned out he's just human garbage.

Thats what I thought too. Figured the defense had an angle on it that was calling into question prior confessions, but nope. There are a lot of villains in this, but Kachinsky and especially O'Kelly are evil and despicaple human beings.

 

[Kurdel]

A rag with some bleach on it would probably clean it in seconds.

And then he carefully threw it on the floor.

 

[Aarglefarg]

Thats what I thought too. Figured the defense had an angle on it that was calling into question prior confessions, but nope. There are a lot of villains in this, but Kachinsky and especially O'Kelly are evil and despicaple human beings.

They did bad but they must have thought they were doing the right thing for Brendan by trying to get him a plea deal for a lighter sentence than they expected Brendan to otherwise get.

 

[hawk2025]

A rag with some bleach on it would probably clean it in seconds.

Why would anyone clean a key with bleach, then leave it laying around in their room instead of throwing it in the raging fire on one's backyard where the rest of the evidence is being burned?

 

[Orthogonal]

They did bad but they must have thought they were doing the right thing for Brendan by trying to get him a plea deal for a lighter sentence than they expected Brendan to otherwise get.

I understand the plea deal is a part of the process, but considering there is Zero physical evidence connecting Brendan to the crime and no other testimony even remotely implicating him, they are incompetent at best and evil at worst. They were in the pocket of the DA to land a Steven Avery guilty verdict, Brendan was just a sacrificial pawn. They never even tried to defend him but went straight for the plea deal.

 

[hawk2025]

The letter read in court during the infamous blue-ribbon-crying-incident shows that it clearly isn't the case that they had that approach to go for a plea deal.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

A rag with some bleach on it would probably clean it in seconds.

Why go thru all the trouble to remove the key from the keychain so as not to get any bleach on it (the cloth part would show signs of being bleached), then clean the key (using a fine-pointed object to clean out the groves along the side of the key), then put it back on the keychain, only to then toss it on your bedroom floor? If you're going to be that meticulous, why suddenly be a dumbass when it comes to getting rid of the thing you're trying to remove evidence from?

 

[The Beard]

Why would anyone clean a key with bleach, then leave it laying around in their room instead of throwing it in the raging fire on one's backyard where the rest of the evidence is being burned?

I don't know, I was just answering a question. "How hard would it be to remove all of Teresa's DNA from her key?" It would take seconds.

Why wouldn't he burn the key? Maybe he wanted to move the RAV4 later on? It's easier to do when you have a key.

For the record, I think the key was planted.

 

[RustyNails]

Why go thru all the trouble to remove the key from the keychain so as not to get any bleach on it (the cloth part would show signs of being bleached), then clean the key (using a fine-pointed object to clean out the groves along the side of the key), then put it back on the keychain, only to then toss it on your bedroom floor? If you're going to be that meticulous, why suddenly be a dumbass when it comes to getting rid of the thing you're trying to remove evidence from?

This is another example of the dual picture that's painted of Mr Wolf and a dumbass criminal. He meticulously cleaned every speck of Teresa's blood from the garage, including from all the junk in that garage. He then re-applied a layer of dust on the junk so it didn't seem that it was messed with. He also somehow removed the trace of bleach from everywhere. We are talking about Mr Wolf x 1000. Then, the dude leaves a big blotch of his own blood in the Rav4, half-assedly hides it under a bunch of branches and then hangs the key in his bedroom and passes out. Dumbass criminal.

 

[Malvolio]

So much that just doesn't make sense. Why would you burn the body of the person that was last seen on your property, then leave their car in the lot when you have a perfectly good car compactor on site?

 

[CyclopsRock]

I'm never going to be able to get Brendan saying "I don't knooow" out of my head. I think half of the sentences he said in the entire series was "I don't knoooow".

 

[Spinifex]

I'm never going to be able to get Brendan saying "I don't knooow" out of my head. I think half of the sentences he said in the entire series was "I don't knoooow".

Yeah?

Yeah.

 

[bebop242]

I don't know, I was just answering a question. "How hard would it be to remove all of Teresa's DNA from her key?" It would take seconds.

Why wouldn't he burn the key? Maybe he wanted to move the RAV4 later on? It's easier to do when you have a key.

For the record, I think the key was planted.

Yes, thank you for the answer btw.

 

[RustyNails]

EthanC, below is a list of pro-defense information left out of the "biased" documentary:

submitted 5 hours ago * by devisanx2

Much has been said about MaM leaving out prosecution evidence, but here's a list of defense evidence it also left out. If you know of other tidbits, please share them, with sources if possible, and I'll add them to the list.

*Updated list includes items from /u/PuppyBabyMan, /u/rockywayne, /u/SlowTheRain, /u/pajam. /u/triddy6. Thanks, Redditors!

Dean Strang recalled that one of the investigators involved in finding DNA under the hood of Halbach's car admitted to not changing gloves after handling evidence inside her car. Source: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SGwXEJ_0X2A Reddit discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/3ztcch/wow_investigator_didnt_change_gloves_after/

Remember Sherry Culhane, the expert who testified about Halbach's DNA being on the bullet, except she contaminated her control sample, but since she'd used the whole sample (leaving nothing for the defense to test), they went ahead and treated it as conclusive? In 1985, she testified in the Penny Beernsten case that a hair belonging to Steven was found on Penny's shirt. Source: http://lacrossetribune.com/news/sta...cle_5dc71915-0a95-5438-bf29-e168b655a855.html and http://www.convolutedbrian.com/testimony-notes-26-feb-2007.html and http://www.convolutedbrian.com/the-poster-child-effect.html

"Buting showed that Culhane delayed the DNA test that freed Avery for a year" and "Culhane’s error rate was shown to be the highest of her group although her analysis time was seventy percent of the other analysts. She explained this by stating she did more samples than others." Source: http://www.convolutedbrian.com/testimony-notes-26-feb-2007.html

Investigators never dusted the Toyota key (with Steven's DNA) for fingerprints. http://fox6now.com/2016/01/07/march...erys-fingerprints-crime-lab-expert-testifies/

Strang said Manitowoc County Coroner Debra Kakatsch would testify that she was "walled off entirely" from the crime scene by Calumet County authorities. By state statute, she should have been allowed to investigate early reports of possible human bones being found outside of Avery's trailer, he said.

Strang said the coroner had also received calls from the Manitowoc County executive and the county's top attorney not to investigate the case. Source: http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/witness-says-she-saw-victim-later-b99642985z1-363818721.html

Culhane testified that the amount of Avery's DNA on Halbach's hood latch (which could have been blood) was very small, similar to what you would get from rubbing Avery's toothbrush on it, or from the unchanged gloves of the tech who handled blood evidence inside the car and then touched the hood. https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur...as_not_proven_that_the_dna_on_the_hood_latch/

Buting wanted to show jury anonymous letter mailed to MTSC, found in Green Bay Post Office, which claimed a body had been burned in the smelter at 3:am on Friday. Sources: https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=pEUEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6227,3242420&hl=en and http://fromwhisperstor.fr.yuku.com/...urder-Trial-John-Lees-Trial-Blog#.Vo7kgR7DPIU (Note that this last link comes from a website that, irritatingly, replaces every instance of "ass" with "DorkFish", so Fassbender comes out "FDorkfishbender. Why, website, why???)

Clerk Lynn Zigmunt testifies that she had a log everyone was supposed to sign when they went into the evidence room, but "some people were making exceptions for people. We've tightened up on that." Source: http://fox6now.com/2016/01/07/march...-that-should-have-sealed-steven-averys-blood/

Blaine Dassey testified that his brother, Bobby, was asleep when he got home from school around 3:40pm, contradicting Bobby's testimony that he got up at 2:30pm and saw Teresa headed towards Steven's trailer. Source: http://fox6now.com/2016/01/07/february-27-2007-another-nephew-of-steven-avery-takes-the-stand/

Dean Strang says Steven's jail conversations were taped for 16 months and he never implicated himself, and this - along with the fact that in his experience, people "mentally equipped as Steven is" always end up confessing or implicating themselves - makes him think Steven may be "stone cold innocent." Source: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...ense-steven-avery-may-be-stone-cold-innocent/

Now Sheriff (then "under sheriff") Robert Hermann is president of another salvage company in the region, and was working at it before he went into law enforcement in the 80s. http://cleveland-auto-sales-salvage...ry/us/c/18826455-cleveland-auto-sales-salvage and http://www.htrnews.com/story/news/l.../11944007/?from=global&sessionKey=&autologin=

Dean Strang stated they had a forensic anthropologist at trial who testified that an open fire wouldn't have generated enough heat to burn a body in the way that those bones were destroyed, but it didn’t make the documentary. Dean Strang on Megyn Kelly, the Kelly File 1/5/2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIBAoe8hNPk

In between 3:30 - 4PM, A propane delivery truck driver (John Leurquin) saw a green SUV leaving the Avery property at but couldn’t identify driver or if it was a male or female. He delivers propane for Valders Co-op. Usually fuels up near Avery property at 3:30 for about half an hour http://www.wsaw.com/news/headlines/6386482.html

“Police said she was wearing blue jeans, a white button-down shirt and a summer jacket when she was last seen. Schmitz would indicate that Halbach was at his residence at approximately 1:30 p.m. Was there for approximately ten minutes. Was wearing a white shirt, waist -- waist-length jacket, and blue jeans. (Day 4 of Dassey Trial) Zipperer would indicate that Halbach was at her residence between approximately 2 to 2:30 p.m. Was there for approximately ten minutes. Was wearing a white top, waist-length jacket, and blue jeans. (Day 4 of Dassey Trial) Bobby Dassey said when he saw Teresa Halbach photographing the van Avery was selling Oct. 31, 2005, she was wearing a knee-length coat and slacks. http://fromwhisperstor.fr.yuku.com/...urder-Trial-John-Lees-Trial-Blog#.VpLqvJMrLq2 and http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ssing-woman-found&hl=en&gl=us&strip=1&vwsrc=0

Steven filed an interesting post-conviction document naming other suspects the police should have looked into. Please do not take this as Steven actually accusing any of these men; it's just meant to show a judge that there were other viable suspects besides Steven, and that should create reasonable doubt. http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wkow/newsdocs/avery document page 23 +.pdf

William Newhouse, a gun expert with the Wisconsin State Crime Lab, said he couldn't conclusively link a bullet found in a crack in Avery's garage to a .22-caliber rifle seized from his bedroom. (He could only confirm that it was definitely a bullet from a .22 caliber rifle). There was no DNA on the gun, no blood blow back that you’d get from shooting someone at that close range and no blood mist / spatter around the garage that would also be present had someone been shot in the garage. http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/...-with-halbachs-dna-b99643001z1-363819121.html

Strang proved and Bobby Dassey agreed that the joke about hiding a body that Steve supposedly said to Bobby Dassey and Mike Osmundson on Nov 3 before Teresa was reported missing couldn't have been made on Nov 3, because Bobby Dassey was working that night. If it did happen, it could have only been made Nov 4 after Teresa's disappearance was public. http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/testimony-unclear-on-timing-of-joke-b99643032z1-363820361.html The documentary showed Steven's defense team questioning the date of the alleged joke but left out the evidence of why it couldn't have been heard by Dassey and Osmunson before Teresa's disappearance was public.

The defense eliminated as many problematic jurors as the law allowed, but they still ended up with a MCSD sheriff's father and a county clerk's husband. http://www.people.com/article/steven-avery-juror-says-two-jurors-related-county-employees

On the 'Kelly Files' interview, Dean Strang mentioned that there were little drops off deer blood all over Averys garage, essentially debunking the theory that they could have cleaned all the blood evidence out of the garage, since had they cleaned it that thoroughly, there wouldn't have been any deer blood: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIBAoe8hNPk

Colborn testified that he violently shook the bookend table when the key fell out, yet if you look at the photo, there is a remote and some paper sitting on top and things sitting neatly inside. https://imgur.com/a/vgV9B

 

[PopeReal]

So much of Brendan's story is heart breaking. Again, I don't know if he was involved or not. But there is more than a reasonable doubt in my opinion considering that no physical evidence was ever found of him committing a crime. I do think his confessions should have been tossed out of court, but maybe a lawyer on gaf could say if that should have happened.

Some key moments really hit hard. I think a couple of them have already been mentioned. Him wanting to get back to school since he cooperated with the detectives and later talking about wanting to watch Wrestlemania.

The other one that got me was when his mom was pressing him (again) why he confessed if he didn't do it. His response? "I just guessed, like I do on my homework." Straight punch to the gut for me.

 

[bishopcruz]

I just read the transcripts of the first interview with Dassey, the one at school and it again left me sick to my stomach. How anyone can read these and not conclude that this child was basically manhandled by the police and fed exactly what to say is smoking some serious crack. Fassbender and Wigert just run all over this kid. It's damned hearbreaking. That and the transcript clearly shows that the first interview was done without his mother present or even informed that he was being interviewed.

She should have never allowed the subsequent interviews, but apparently 93% of suspects end up waiving their Miranda rights. I just cannot understand how anyone in good conscience would allow a series of confessions like this to stand.

Either way, I'm never one for new laws, but it should be absolutely illegal to interview a child without either their lawyer or their parent present. What happened to this kid is one of the biggest injustices I have seen. Hell, I showed the series to my mother and she literally had to stop in the middle of episode 4 due to what they did to Branden.

 

[STILLethal]

Binge watched it last night, so many things went through my head, just glad I don't live in WI I guess

 

[Dalek]

Photo taken yesterday.

 

[ajcacio]

Photo taken yesterday.

Link is broken.

NEVERMIND. Worked after I quoted. Wtf?

 

[DroidDev]

Slight correction- both things had Avery's DNA on them. You can't tell where the DNA came from... There is no test to see if it's skin flakes etc. as a matter of fact, there is no DNA in your sweat. The sweat can have skin flakes in it some times.

The "sweat" line came from Kratz, because he's obsessed with painting Avery as this crazed sweating rape beast. Pretty disingenuous on his part, but as you've seen that's how he operates.

It wasn't perspiration. It was nucleated cells. Basically just generic non-blood cells. Which they literally could have rubbed on the key from a sock laying in his room. The hood had the same DNA, but the examiner who found it stated under cross examination that he had been looking inside Avery's car, then went and examined her car (including the hood) without changing gloves.

There's a video from an interview with the documentary makers on one of the last two pages (100ppp) I put up where they explain why that and why it wasn't put in the documentary.

Got ya, didn't know that, that changes things. The whole case was really a clusterfuck whether the conviction was correct or not.

How so? Colborn and Lenk could have planted all the main evidence- the key, the bullet, and the blood in the vehicle. They had complete access to his property and were the ones who actually "found" the key and bullet. They didn't need to be involved or corroborating with the real killers or moving of bones. The bones weren't found until Nov 10th, 5 days after the police took control of his property, and any of the possible killers had free reign on his land, including Scott Tadych, and her brother and ex-boyfriend. Other then those 3 things there's no evidence, just phone calls thing, fuzzy handcuffs that. No corroboration for that, just ignorance.

I don't mean corroboration on the murder itself. More, corroboration in terms of willingness to cut corners when it comes to the procedure of collecting and analyzing evidence. Idk, still reading about the case.

 

[EASTC0AST_GH05T]

Yeah?

Yeah.

Yea, I have Brendan saying Yeah, Yeah, I don't know in my head as well. It reminded me of Ryo Hazuki from Shenmue, just his tone and always sounding the same like a program. The cops interrogating Brendan then offering him snacks like hes some pet sticks with me too.

 

[hawk2025]

Yea, I have Brendan saying Yeah, Yeah, I don't know in my head as well. It reminded me of Ryo Hazuki from Shenmue, just his tone and always sounding the same like a program. The cops interrogating Brendan then offering him snacks like hes some pet sticks with me too.

Do you want to play a game of Lucky Hit?
How about a game of Lucky Hit?

 

[Dalek]

Yea, I have Brendan saying Yeah, Yeah, I don't know in my head as well. It reminded me of Ryo Hazuki from Shenmue, just his tone and always sounding the same like a program. The cops interrogating Brendan then offering him snacks like hes some pet sticks with me too.

Do you know where I can find sailors.

 

[East Lake]

Just had a thought that Brendan is extremely lucky not to have guessed at a gun before those assholes interrogating blew it.

 

[IceCold]

.

 

[CFMOORE!]

Finished it and...this shit is appalling. How can anyone trust in the system after watching this? Especially in today's climate with all the recent stories about cops killing black people, or the news that Alabama have been systematically framing black people by planting drugs, the 'affluenza' kid, civil forfeiture, etc. Every once in a while you hear a story about how some man has been pardoned and released after X amounts of years in jail because they were actually innocent. Usually they get very little support after their release or compensation for their lost years. It's fucked up. Don't think for a second that what happened to the Averys is some unique event.

What's even sadder than Steven's story for me is the story of his nephew, Brendan...makes me want to cry just thinking about it. The kid is losing the better years of his youth due to his own ignorance and trust in authority. It made me really sad when he told his mother that he was dumb too. Sometimes I wish I believed in God because I'd find solace knowing justice would be served in the afterlife for those who have wronged him, but alas...

I don't know who killed Teresa but all I know is that Teresa's ex and brother were sketchy as shit. I couldn't believe how unwilling her brother was to even consider the possibility that the Averys were innocent...unless he was involved in her murder somehow.

This also makes it very clear to me that the death penalty should be abolished every where since it's so easy to convict an innocent person. The system is completely broken and rotten to its core and needs a major overhaul.

Oh and fuck the media too. Innocent until proven guilty my ass.

the ex i can see as being shady, but the brother? nah. he is obviously hurting but i hate that he goes on saying that Brendan is clearly lying on the stand when he finally says he made everything up, yet her dumb ass brother when clear evidence is brought up that cops were lying in Steven's trial, he fails to even second guess that. That Coulburn and Lentz or whatever, are clearly the fucks who conspired to some degree here. on the stand their body language when under cross examination clearly changes when Steven's (brilliant!!) lawyers lay into them and rip their stories apart. Those cops being stammering, fidgeting, blinking excessively. It's crazy.

 

[IceCold]

.

 

[CFMOORE!]

Well her brother managed to figure out her phone's pin and listened to her voice mail. Then a network engineer who worked for her cellphone provider said that some voice mails had to have been deleted. So who deleted them and why? Him and the ex just gave strange vibes to me, especially in the beginning when they were searching for Teresa. They should have been suspects in the case.

forgot about the cell thing, that was definitely interesting. i can imagine the real suspect is on one of those deleted messages.

fucking pisses me off the supreme courts are denying their motions for new trials. shitty piece of shit corrupt government all the way up.

 

[kavanf1]

My theory:

Spoiler

Ex-Boyfriend called Teresa upset that she was cheating on him with her roommate, leaving her two angry voicemails, telling her he was on the way to her apartment. Ex-Boyfriend killed Teresa in her apartment, in a moment of passion, with a gunshot to the head. There would be evidence, but the apartment was never searched. He put her in the back of the car and drove her to the quarry to burn the body, and ditched the car somewhere.

Colburn found it and reported it, and called Lenk. The police did normal investigative work, then learned that Steven was the last person to see her. Time to kill two bird with one stone. He then had Colburn move the car, in the middle of the night (Averys claimed to see headlights). Meanwhile, the ex-boyfriend then erased the voicemails. He was questioned by the police where they dropped hints that they thought Steven Avery did it and he wasn't a suspect. Maybe they even dropped hints that the car might be in the junkyard. He then sent a search team member to the Avery junkyard, a specific section, with a camera, where magically the car was.

Lenk wanted to plant he key right away but there wasn't a moment to do it and he needed Steven's DNA and to clean the key. He cleaned the key and planted Steven's DNA on it , then planted it on the fourth day. He also planted the blood the first day, at 6PM, like his first report said, which he later tried to coverup.

Rest is history.

That's a good theory. I started watching last night, first few episodes had me and my wife shaking our heads in disbelief...seems like it only gets more unbelievable from here.

 

[show me your skeleton]

what did the state decide was steven's motive for the crime? i seemed to have missed that, if it was at all important to the case.

 

[RBelong2Us]

what did the state decide was steven's motive for the crime? i seemed to have missed that, if it was at all important to the case.

That's really my thing. This guy is just what.... a sadistic f*ck right when he was going to potentially be given 36 million dollars?

Obviously some women thing going on through out his life in some form but to kill a random woman like that? It just doesn't add up, there are just so many things that are so wrong with this whole situation that it's just really saddening and frustrating .

 

[CFMOORE!]

what did the state decide was steven's motive for the crime? i seemed to have missed that, if it was at all important to the case.

just that he is a monster and presumably mad over his false imprisonment. but they didnt argue that in court

 

[show me your skeleton]

just that he is a monster and presumably mad over his false imprisonment. but they didnt argue that in court

strange that it wasn't argued but I guess his character was hard to defend after it had been painted a certain way (for the second time now!) by the media.
i guess pointing out flaws in the investigation was the much better course.
man, it's so heartbreaking. the lawyer that said that he hoped steven was guilty really hit the nail on the head because the alternative is just depressing.

 

[Mascot]

Any sympathy evaporated when I learned he poured petrol on his cat and threw it into a fire.

 

[KingBroly]

just that he is a monster and presumably mad over his false imprisonment. but they didnt argue that in court

I'm on Episode 7 right now and it seems like the prosecution just keep changing their story to me.

The whole 'Manatowoc county cops aren't supposed to be involved but have been all along' leads me to believe it should've been an instant mistrial because of their bias involving the lawsuit from Avery. It comes across as a complete FUBAR kind of investigation. There's so much doubt here.

 

[CFMOORE!]

I'm on Episode 7 right now and it seems like the prosecution just keep changing their story to me.

The whole 'Manatowoc county cops aren't supposed to be involved but have been all along' leads me to believe it should've been an instant mistrial because of their bias involving the lawsuit from Avery. It comes across as a complete FUBAR kind of investigation. There's so much doubt here.

so much in that case should have resulted in it being thrown out or rendered a not guilty verdict.

part of me, without knowing the circumstances of the relieved juror's emergency feels like the cops pulled something because they somehow knew he would be the cause of a hung jury

 

[KingBroly]

so much in that case should have resulted in it being thrown out or rendered a not guilty verdict.

part of me, without knowing the circumstances of the relieved juror's emergency feels like the cops pulled something because they somehow knew he would be the cause of a hung jury

I disagree, since I think that if a hung jury happened, they would've tried him again, and in that case, I doubt Avery could've afforded to keep these lawyers and a public defender would've been assigned. And that person probably would've done a very shitty job.

 

[CFMOORE!]

I disagree, since I think that if a hung jury happened, they would've tried him again, and in that case, I doubt Avery could've afforded to keep these lawyers and a public defender would've been assigned. And that person probably would've done a very shitty job.

yeah. it wasn't really a serious thought when i watched it. it's just in all the shitty stuff that happened, i wouldn't put anything past any of the people against Avery.

I really want to know what was said to those 7 jurors who said "not guilty" during deliberations to make them change their minds.