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Making A Murderer - Netflix 10-part documentary series - S1 now streaming on Netflix
- Thread starter Armadilo
- Start date
D1renegade
Member
In the earlier episodes, Steven's dad looked just like the old man from Up
RustyNails
Member
He's my favorite person in the entire documentary (excluding the defense of course). His sense of humor is really under-appreciated.
Nappuccino
Member
Every time they cut back to Steven's mother, I was incredibly worried about his dad until they showed him on camera. I don't think I could have handled never seeing him again
Love his scene taking care of the vegetables. It was this 2-minute heartwarming bit in a sea of darkness.
Same here.
Rin Tohsaka
Banned
Try not to read it in his voice.
I really thought I couldn't possibly think any less of him, but there it is. Now I'm curious what other letters he sent. What's it to him if Steven confesses or not? He's already in jail. Sounds like he knows more than he lets on.
Kathleen Zellner is gonna have his on a pike.
But he's the Prize
You had ONE chance to make me even more rich with a book and movie option, but I'll leave this open ended in case you change your mind because I'm a huge douche.
WX3
Member
Yea that was nice. Felt like I knew him after all that and we were hanging out, him showing his proud garden off while munching on some fresh lettuce and sipping a beer!
Oops, quoted the wrong person, this is in reference to the gardening scene.
Vampire On Titus
Member
She's claims to have new evidence that will exnorerate him. We'll have to wait and see if that's the case but for what it's worth she comes off as extremely confident.
Oh boy, despite not getting the "honest story" out of Avery, Ken Kratz really is writing a book.
Don't worry everyone, it's finally time for the prosecutor to share the "whole story"!
Oh, really? Any details?
figadapaura
Member
Right, because he fucking knows what happened. And writing it under the pretence that he gives a shit about anyone but himself. Tragic.
There's no way she'd release anything at this point. A trial is way off and she doesn't want to give the prosecution any help.
figadapaura
Member
I've been putting off signing this because I'm not from the US. Would it matter?
If you don't mind getting arrested and having your trial heard in Manitowoc County, then do it.
CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls
Banned
FreedomFighter
Member
Signed.
I had to stop watching after episode 5, I believe (the episode where the blood vial was shown to be tampered with). At that point, I was done. Between that and the multiple scenes of interrogating that kid and basically making manipulating him to say/do/draw whatever the prosecution wanted... I just couldn't watch anymore of it out of frustration.
I'm really trying to find the will to watch the rest of the episodes.
CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls
Banned
I took about a week and a half break between episodes 7 and 8 due to sheer anger. Ran through 8, 9, and 10 in one sitting. It's a tough series to swallow.
hey_monkey
Banned
Sigh. I have feelings about these petitions. I want justice served. But I want it served everywhere. I want cops who gun kids down in the street to be held accountable. I want cops who use pictures of teenagers at the firing range held accountable. I want cops to stop only using their guns. Is this a step toward that or is it just easy to care about because I saw a show? Does this start us on some change? Or is it just a lollipop after a shot?
figadapaura
Member
I guess I'll start saving for my Strang/Buting defence team.
yes they do
edit- this really isn't a debate anymore both butin/strang have acknowledged that part of it, the part they're concerned about is the blood around the neck being smudged as if the actual tube top had been removed, while the case file it self clearly had been re-opened.
ghostwritingduck
Member
I'm trying to binge through this, but had a couple questions in the meantime.
Is the claim that an unknown 3rd party killed Theresa , burned her body outside Avery's house, and the police then planted evidence to ensure a conviction against Avery?
Is the claim that an unknown 3rd party killed Theresa , burned her body outside Avery's house, and the police then planted evidence to ensure a conviction against Avery?
The body was probably burned in the quarry and then moved to Avery's backyard. It makes no sense to burn the body in his backyard and then move a few bones to the quarry and forget a few bones in the barrel.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
So today i finished the whole documentary, this stuff is depressing. That things can go so far, and it still hasn't ended, not by a long shot.
Now let's be clear here, Steven is far from a saint. Let us not forget his robberies when he was young, pulling a unloaded gun on ...his sister wasn't it? And setting the family cat on fire, that IS terrible stuff. He did admit that it was wrong though, that he was young and dumb and hanging around with the wrong people. But none of that makes it right what happened to him and what is still happening to him.
I definitely believe he is innocent for several reasons. Why go through all that hassle when you can just use your car crusher and get rid of the body and all evidence? Why wasn't there any blood found? All that stuff with the car keys and everything was shady as hell, and clearly planted by them. Taking hours to search the house and the Averies weren;t allowed inside their own home for hours.....just not right, at all. But there's just so much more wrongdoing by the prosecution, it's just insane. I see no reason to believe he did it, yet people out there do and i wonder why. Is it because of his ex wife on TV? Suddenly claiming he is a monster and that she was tied to a bed as well? Yeah....right. I fully remember in the documentary how she was in full support of him, was that all acted and forced? Nah. Something else is at play here. So again...people who think he's guilty, why? Give me something. Did certain things happen that we don't see in the documentary or after it?
Brendan.....how the hell is he still locked up? So at first he described in detail how things happened when he was at Steven's trailer, it was indeed quite detailed but under oath in the courtroom he claims the drawing and everything was all made up and based on the movie Kiss the Girls. Why did he even make that all up in the first place? Did these cops have that much influence on him? Just damn scary. Same with his sister, under oath she admits that she had made it all up....all i can ask is...WHY? Why would you do that? Also without any real evidence....for both Averies, how can they still be behind bars? How could that jury have even come to that verdict for both? And even the higher appeals court denied them...isn't it there job to at least look everything over carefully?
Steven is now trying it on his own, or well..at the end of the doc he is. But if he keeps having to send it all to that judge...it's never gonna help him, because that judge is a piece of work and keeps denying him. A damn shame he simply can't get a new judge. When one of his lawyers said that deep down he hoped he was guilty because the thought of someone innocent and this all happening to him, scared him to death. It's weird, but i can see what he means.
Now that i've seen the doc, what else is there? What things do i need to know? How is it looking for both Averies now?
Now let's be clear here, Steven is far from a saint. Let us not forget his robberies when he was young, pulling a unloaded gun on ...his sister wasn't it? And setting the family cat on fire, that IS terrible stuff. He did admit that it was wrong though, that he was young and dumb and hanging around with the wrong people. But none of that makes it right what happened to him and what is still happening to him.
I definitely believe he is innocent for several reasons. Why go through all that hassle when you can just use your car crusher and get rid of the body and all evidence? Why wasn't there any blood found? All that stuff with the car keys and everything was shady as hell, and clearly planted by them. Taking hours to search the house and the Averies weren;t allowed inside their own home for hours.....just not right, at all. But there's just so much more wrongdoing by the prosecution, it's just insane. I see no reason to believe he did it, yet people out there do and i wonder why. Is it because of his ex wife on TV? Suddenly claiming he is a monster and that she was tied to a bed as well? Yeah....right. I fully remember in the documentary how she was in full support of him, was that all acted and forced? Nah. Something else is at play here. So again...people who think he's guilty, why? Give me something. Did certain things happen that we don't see in the documentary or after it?
Brendan.....how the hell is he still locked up? So at first he described in detail how things happened when he was at Steven's trailer, it was indeed quite detailed but under oath in the courtroom he claims the drawing and everything was all made up and based on the movie Kiss the Girls. Why did he even make that all up in the first place? Did these cops have that much influence on him? Just damn scary. Same with his sister, under oath she admits that she had made it all up....all i can ask is...WHY? Why would you do that? Also without any real evidence....for both Averies, how can they still be behind bars? How could that jury have even come to that verdict for both? And even the higher appeals court denied them...isn't it there job to at least look everything over carefully?
Steven is now trying it on his own, or well..at the end of the doc he is. But if he keeps having to send it all to that judge...it's never gonna help him, because that judge is a piece of work and keeps denying him. A damn shame he simply can't get a new judge. When one of his lawyers said that deep down he hoped he was guilty because the thought of someone innocent and this all happening to him, scared him to death. It's weird, but i can see what he means.
Now that i've seen the doc, what else is there? What things do i need to know? How is it looking for both Averies now?
Vampire On Titus
Member
Start digging into the information and new developments on the MaM subreddit. This google doc is a collection of links to the most pertinent info collected.
Both Brendan and Steven have new legal representation. Steven's new lawyer Kathleen Zellner is boasting new evidence that will exonerate Steven in a new trial. Of course that evidence itself wont come to light until the trial itself. Still she's got some interesting stuff to say on her twitter.
Also Ken Kratz continues to be the world's greatest piece of shit. See any page of this thread for evidence.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
Thanks man, appreciate it. Yeah Kratz is a huge piece of shit. That stuff he was accused of and just now i read that he's getting away with it.....how? sigh.
A few pages back i read that all the 'new evidence' was already proven false, does that include Kratz's claim that Steven did not accidentally got the cat on fire but poured gasoline over it , set it on fire and 'wanted to see it suffer' ? Steven in the doc says it was basically a accident.
I also wonder why some people say he's probably not a very nice guy. Except for his crimes in the past, he didn't appear to me like a very unlikeable person at all, Of course thats not saying much, because you can't really get an impression of him.....but the same can be said about people that say he's probably not very nice of a person.
Damn, the guy that is now free thanks to Kathleen calls her a Titan, those are some strong words. In the doc it was said Steven was doing it all alone from now on, so how did he manage to get Kathleen helping him? I mean...it's not like Steven had much money left, or well...i assume that.
Well, Making a Murderer came out, and it kind of exploded.
It was bound to happen, there's a lot of notoriety involved in getting the case going again now.
Plus if and when he is exonerated she will make a ton of money from the civil suit.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
True enough, but she needs to get paid. But if he can't afford her? Yeah, i'm very new with all this.
Oh and as for Kratz' evidence that he explained in an article, apparently it was all proven false? I am talking to someone about the case who just mentioned that evidence. Any link or info on how it was all debunked?
TestOfTide
Banned
Well, Avery was close to getting something like 25 million for being falsely imprisoned last time. So I guess it would be that much plus however much he would be owed for losing another decade of his life.
Better question is who ends up paying if Avery were to win such a suit.
True enough, but she needs to get paid. But if he can't afford her? Yeah, i'm very new with all this.
Oh and as for Kratz' evidence that he explained in an article, apparently it was all proven false? I am talking to someone about the case who just mentioned that evidence. Any link or info on how it was all debunked?
Some lawyers will take up these high profile cases for "free" (pro bono) to get the positive publicity, which can lead to a ton of paying jobs down the road. Also, she would get a piece of the money that Steven would get if he's found not guilty after the new trial. It's a win win situation for the lawyer.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
I signed it. But have any of these White House petitions ever led to anything? Every one I've ever seen has just been a letter of response following this formula:
1) We recognize and appreciate your concern
2) We won't or can't do anything about it
3) Here's some other tangentially related stuff that we're already doing
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
Ah yes, thanks for that. Any idea on when a new trial could start or could that take a while?
As i said i was discussing this with someone else on another site and he claims the doc is very biased and this article proves it he says:
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/01/25/dead-certainty
This article amongst other things claims that Penny Beerntsen did not want to be in the doc because the doc makers appeared to have already made up their mind anout Avery, that he was innocent.
Or this:
[The filmmakers minimize or leave out many aspects of Avery’s less than savory past, including multiple alleged incidents of physical and sexual violence. They also omit important evidence against him, including the fact that Brendan Dassey confessed to helping Avery move Halbach’s S.U.V. into his junk yard, where Avery lifted the hood and removed the battery cable. Investigators subsequently found DNA from Avery’s perspiration on the hood latch—evidence that would be nearly impossible to plant.
Lol...the DNA from the sweat huh? I just saw the tweet from Steven's new lawyer that there is no DNA in sweat.
But....physical and sexual violence? No doubt more nonsense from Kratz that can most definitely be proven false.
True or not, it isn't evidence of his guilt in either case. Nor is it a unique factor among the possible suspects in Teresa's murder, either.
The New Yorker article is one of the worst things I've ever read in that magazine, and a giant disappointment.
It imposes an impossible burden on the filmmakers of actually coming up with a brand new story on who is actually guilty, attributes intent of misleading viewers that it can't possibly assert, and to top it off fails exactly where it's lambasting the documentary: It presents one-sided, unverified evidence as proof of its claims.
An embarrassing write-up all around.
It imposes an impossible burden on the filmmakers of actually coming up with a brand new story on who is actually guilty, attributes intent of misleading viewers that it can't possibly assert, and to top it off fails exactly where it's lambasting the documentary: It presents one-sided, unverified evidence as proof of its claims.
An embarrassing write-up all around.
RoodyPooUS
Member
watched thru ep 5/6?
Along with the blood being tampered and calling in the licence plate two days before the car was "found" by the search party, its hard to keep going. Its obvious the judge is also in the prosecutors pocket.
why didnt they test if that blood was years old, there must be way
Along with the blood being tampered and calling in the licence plate two days before the car was "found" by the search party, its hard to keep going. Its obvious the judge is also in the prosecutors pocket.
why didnt they test if that blood was years old, there must be way
That effectively is what they tested. but the test isn't conclusive. The EDT they were looking for is what keeps it liquid unless I'm mistaken.
There is no guarantee he will get a new trial. At this point all that Steven has left is an appeal/motion for ineffective counsel or filing an appeal/motion to introduce new evidence proving his innocence. I highly doubt that they will grant the former. So his best bet is introduction of new evidence.
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
That's just so goddamn wrong. So much wrongdoing in this case and they all get away with it. Even the judge who is clearly in the prosecution's pocket. Why is he even allowed to still be in this case? Each time Avery asked for something he denied it, even the higher appeals court isn't helping him. Why the hell can't the president do something about this? The proof is all there of the corruption and nothing is done. Just so wrong.
Because poor people never win
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
That was not a vacuum container. It was just a ordinary glass tube with a purple cap. And the laboratory itself said that they don't poke holes on the caps to draw blood from the tube, (which makes total sense, since when you are testing blood you are NOT using a syringe and a needle to draw the blood from the tube). THe drop of blood should not be there, and even if it wasn't, the seals being broken are more than enough evidence to tell someone used that blood for something at some point in time.
Well there are a few things to consider:
- The documentary presents the evidence in favor of Steven Avery.
- Proving corruption is not as simple as one might think
- The allegations of corruption shown in the documentary are precisely that allegations
- The President/Federal government has no jurisdiction over a state matters
- Ultimately, 12 jurors heard the evidence presented to them at trial and found him guilty
- Defendants who think they’ve been wrongfully convicted can:
- *make a motion asking the trial judge to overturn the jury’s guilty verdict and enter a verdict of not guilty
*move for a new trial—that is, ask the judge to set aside the jury’s verdict, declare a mistrial, and start over, or
*These two motions are made before the same judge
*appeal or seek a writ, which means asking a higher court to reverse a conviction.:
- Appellate courts most often review only legal claims that defendants have made at trial. If defendants neglect to make legal claims at trial, they usually waive those claims.
Not every error at trial merits reversal. Defendants are entitled to a fair trial, not an error-free trial.
There is no way blood is stored in an "ordinary" glass tube. It is a variation of the vacutainer.
I agree the seal being broken is the real issue. The state would have to show (chain of custody) why the seal was broken. I assume this did not come up during the trial as I do not remember it being part of the documentary.
Doug Heffernan
Member
Tatsumi Oga
Banned
I was checking out another forum where they are talking about it as well. I saw a few things:
The year before Avery was wrongfully sent to prison for the rape of Penny Beerntsen, Manitowoc County police records show they received a call concerning "family trouble" in 1984 at Avery's home, where he lived with his wife Lori. According to the department records, Lori made no statements against Avery. In 1983, Lori's sister filed a police report and wrote that Avery "beat up on his wife, and she left home and went to a domestic violence center." Again, a case against Avery was not pursued. Bustle has reached out to Avery's defense lawyer for comment.
Surprises me how she shows so much support for him in MAM though.
Apparently in the full report they have proof that Steven did not toss the cat over the fire but poured gasoline on it and set it on fire on purpose. If that's true, that sure is something only a lowlife person can do, i'm sorry. Nope it sure doesn't prove that he took Teresa's life though.
Also there is apparently proof that he often made calls to the company of Teresa, they discovered this on his phone. Three times on the day she became a missing person, of which two times anonymous. All this does however is prove that that bit of evidence is real. Not saying a whole lot though.
I was discussing this with someone else and his theory about the niece is....she did not lie at school and neither to the detectives. She was lying in court under oath, because all her family was there looking her in the eyes. He definitely believes this is the case. I don't, it was quite clear to me that she was scared as hell on the stand though.
He also speaks about Brandon. That on Youtube you can find a interrogation video where he himself in the first 15 minutes declares he saw Teresa's body in the back of the car, where they also found blood and Steven also had blood on his finger.
This is how he states it...but hold, didn't they ONLY find a bit of blood close to the ignition and nowhere else in the car? And wasn't there a explanation for his cut on his finger?
The year before Avery was wrongfully sent to prison for the rape of Penny Beerntsen, Manitowoc County police records show they received a call concerning "family trouble" in 1984 at Avery's home, where he lived with his wife Lori. According to the department records, Lori made no statements against Avery. In 1983, Lori's sister filed a police report and wrote that Avery "beat up on his wife, and she left home and went to a domestic violence center." Again, a case against Avery was not pursued. Bustle has reached out to Avery's defense lawyer for comment.
Surprises me how she shows so much support for him in MAM though.
Apparently in the full report they have proof that Steven did not toss the cat over the fire but poured gasoline on it and set it on fire on purpose. If that's true, that sure is something only a lowlife person can do, i'm sorry. Nope it sure doesn't prove that he took Teresa's life though.
Also there is apparently proof that he often made calls to the company of Teresa, they discovered this on his phone. Three times on the day she became a missing person, of which two times anonymous. All this does however is prove that that bit of evidence is real. Not saying a whole lot though.
I was discussing this with someone else and his theory about the niece is....she did not lie at school and neither to the detectives. She was lying in court under oath, because all her family was there looking her in the eyes. He definitely believes this is the case. I don't, it was quite clear to me that she was scared as hell on the stand though.
He also speaks about Brandon. That on Youtube you can find a interrogation video where he himself in the first 15 minutes declares he saw Teresa's body in the back of the car, where they also found blood and Steven also had blood on his finger.
This is how he states it...but hold, didn't they ONLY find a bit of blood close to the ignition and nowhere else in the car? And wasn't there a explanation for his cut on his finger?
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