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Malaysia Airlines flight en route from Amsterdam shot down over Ukraine; no survivors
- Thread starter alfredofroylan
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lorebringer
Member
I don't owe you an explanation on my posting habits but since you're making such a big deal about this I wasn't posting at all on GAF for a long time for various reasons. I'm not posting in here because I want to talk about drones I'm posting about drones in here because it illustrates my point, which is that people are completely arbitrary about which losses of civilian life they choose to care about.
I haven't attacked anybody in this thread, otherwise see above.
Nobody called you a racist, no need to take it personally. Obviously it would be nice if we could actually get to the bottom of this whole incident but since there are so many agendas at stake it's going to be almost impossible to get a clear picture of what really happened.
Canada has plenty of blood on its hands too. But it would be nice to see war crimes called out for what they are universally, not just when it happens to be the current bad guy who commits them.
Partial Gamification
Banned
There is a question about how much influence the Kremlin (and Putin) has over the separatists.
Russia might have kept a blind eye to the actual financing of the separatists. The Russian media spin and separatist training camps in Russia still allow for Putin's plausible deniability involving support from within Russia. There is undoubtedly a mafia-Kremlin connection but how much direct support that could be mustered without overt support from the Kremlin is questionable.
There was a sub the Russians were going to sell to drug traffickers.
How much of Putin's control is an illusion? What directly links the Kremlin and Putin to the separatists? What has former President Viktor Yanukovych been up to?
Opus Angelorum
Member
Australian PM laying the truth:
BBC said:
I am sure you can give "plenty" of links regarding the blood on canada's hands?
One of the very few times I find myself actually in 100% agreement with Tony Abbott. Has the world turned upside down?
Plenty of people have and are still calling out and tut tutting Obama's use of Drone strikes. We get it, our President has killed people too and we should feel super bad about it. Now can we move on to relevant topics involving the plane that WASN'T shot down by an Obama drone?
Veritigo_X
Member
I've been wondering this too. We haven't heard anything from him since Crimea was annexed.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Then what was that comment concerning "brown people" about? What would be the point of saying that unless you were trying to accuse people in this thread of being hypocritical racists?
It seems there's a minority of posters here that seem to deflect the conversation away from the topic at hand, and towards topics ranging from drone strikes, how fenced in Russia is, NATO in Kosovo, the veracity of the western media, racism, and past genocides.
It's honestly bizarre, and the crash victims are liable for none of it.
It's honestly bizarre, and the crash victims are liable for none of it.
lorebringer
Member
I just need one, http://www.costsofwar.org/sites/def...nd Pakistan since 2001 to April 2014 6 26.pdf
Afghanistan column in case you were wondering.
Sure, I wasn't the one that kept going on about it, I just made one post at first.
Not necessarily people in this thread, but it is reflective of the kind of coverage events like these get in mass media.
Maninthemirror
Banned
Question:
1. Does Russia have the actual plane signature in its records of a plane near the malaysian airliner?
2. Will the United States show Russia the evidence of the ground to air missile heat signature?
3. Did Ukraine have its own BUK systems and are they all accounted for?
Okay, but you do see the difference between death in a ground operation in an occupied country and shooting down a passenger plane full of unrelated civilians from non-combative countries, right?
Genuinely surprised about the truth bombs from Abbot, nice to see something good come out of him.
DigitalDevil
Member
Dude let it go. The thread has been derailed enough.
MaxwellGames
Banned
I just dont get it... he talks about blamign the Ukrainian army for resuming military actions. YOU ARE INVADING THEIR COUNTRY, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT THEM TO DO? SIT BACK AND WAIT FOR YOU TO DESTROY THEM!?!?
God damn Putin pisses me off. So freaking transparent.
He's pushing for peace talks while HE IS THE ONE PUSHING THE WAR!!!!
Your chatter about drones has NO BEARING to the topic at hand. None.
That post is pretty dumb considering how there's a huge thread about the Gaza conflict going on. It's true that the US doesn't get called out often enough about the drone strikes, but accusing everyone of racism won't get you anywhere.
petran79
Banned
gutter_trash
Banned
We are in 2014; not 1814 or 1714.
You are stated that present crimes committed in 2014 can be white washed because other nations have blood in their hands from 2 or 3 centuries past? That is a stupid ass argument because we can roll back to the Caveman days for all over as an excuse.
we in 2014, and 2014 crimes have to be dealt in the present tense. No sweeping under the rug trying to equate false equivalency with wars and colonialism from 200, 300, 400 years ago
gutter_trash
Banned
what a jumble mish mash numbers.
So you are bundling up Canada's numbers with US's numbers with no distinction from the two and their operations? Over-generalize much.
I see Iraq mixed in there, guess what? Canada did not participate in Iraq in 2002-now.
The Afghan mission was okayed by the UN. As a NATO member nation, Canada participated.
Canadians never shot down passenger planes
Pay attention to everything except Russian culpability.
Thanks, i'll watch it
gutter_trash
Banned
downtown Montreal, you got conspiracy nuts who have tables set up with on the side-walk trying to convince that everythin is Obama and Britain's fault. And that the ''West'' is trying to imped Russia and China's development and that everything is Obama's fault.
What a bunch of crazies.I Told the idiot that Russia is all about gas-oil, Gazprom and oil Olygarhs looking out for their own interests, while China bought the majority of shares in Embridge (oil) . The guy says that I am brainwahed by the Western media... LOL
What a bunch of crazies.I Told the idiot that Russia is all about gas-oil, Gazprom and oil Olygarhs looking out for their own interests, while China bought the majority of shares in Embridge (oil) . The guy says that I am brainwahed by the Western media... LOL
Man, I can't get used to reading the words "Dutch King".
Link?
There's currently a political hipsterdom trend going on. We're all living in evil countries, Russia and China are the good guys, they deserve our love! Would I want to live there? Lol don't be ridiculous.
Americans shot down like, that airplane. Obvy.
lorebringer
Member
Is there a difference really? Right now in Ukraine the government is bombing cities held by separatists. In response the separatists are attempting to shoot down hostile aircraft. If a civilian airliner was caught up in this how is it any different from civilians on the ground getting bombed? Unless the assertion is that the plane was shot down intentionally, knowing it was a civilian craft?
It has plenty to do with it, both are examples of civilians caught in the crossfire. Sometimes it's called collateral damage and nobody cares, sometimes it's called mass murder and everyone cares for a week or two. Why? My original post was in the context of a discussion about the use of particular terms to describe civilian death, maybe you should read it in context.
I'd appreciate it if you'd address the posts I actually make and not fictional arguments about whitewashing that exist only in your head. The figures I was quoting are from 2001-2014, which is hardly ancient history. If you want to accuse me of arguing that this particular tragedy should be "swept under the rug" please go ahead and quote me saying that.
I don't see why everyone is harping on about this. I don't care about Canada, I wasn't the one that even mentioned Canada in the first place.
Oh are people making that argument? Where?
petran79
Banned
the West should read Dostoyevski man....he knew....
Politically, the difference is immense.
lorebringer
Member
This is completely true, which is basically the point I was making in the first place. The actual act though, isn't really any different. What is different is how people respond to it.
MaxwellGames
Banned
The problem is, you failed to make a point.
gutter_trash
Banned
yup, I have seen them on the sidewalk with their tables and posters of Obama with Hitler moustaches.
These hipsters are the children of the hippies who wore hammer and sickle t-shirts 20 years ago.
To answer the third question, I believe Ukraine said as of yesterday that their BUK systems were accounted for.
The Russian Ministry of Defense showed some graphics at their press conference earlier today.
Veritigo_X
Member
Is this related to MH17? The title seems to imply it's about workplace discrimination.
First he spoke on workplace discrimination, then he's speaking on Ukraine.
Opus Angelorum
Member
That was an hour ago.
Yea, I'm kinda just committed to ignoring anyone who tries to make a vapid point of the fact that America is currently embroiled in a Drone strike campaign. It's never relevant to anything other than America's drone strike campaign.
Anyway, the Obama presser is late as expected. That lawn looks amazing though.
PUTIN: NOBODY HAS A RIGHT TO BENEFIT FROM THESE TRAGEDIES, SO MOD MAKE UP NONSENSE ABOUT THE USA SO THAT WE CAN GET A BENEFIT IN THIS TRAGEDY
lorebringer
Member
This will literally never happen. Unless all the sanctions they impose on each other would sort of cancel out in some weird way.
gutter_trash
Banned
false equivlancy.
this is not about the sales of arms and repsonsiblity of what another country does with them.
This is about the movement of arms by the nation itself into another country and have their weapons that they placed in another country to actively shoot down a passenger plane.
THEN! Have said weapon return back to the country where it came from to hide from inspection in the other country.
GoodCoffeeJoey
Banned
There were reports earlier that Russians were trying to plant parts of an air-to-air missile and/or a SU-25 at the crash site.
Whataboutism. Classic Soviet propaganda tactic.
Veritigo_X
Member
Thanks guys. The White House live sidebar must not mention it since it's already past 10:50 AM.
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