Support NeoGAF

[CHEEZMO™]

MH17: Rebels promise safe access to site in return for truce

Is this legit? Are they really using this as a bargaining chip?

Seems like it. Wouldn't be surprised if they're wanting to hold onto the bodies as an implicit ransom.

 

[robochimp]

MH17: Rebels promise safe access to site in return for truce

Is this legit? Are they really using this as a bargaining chip?

Its the only thing they can really do to try and keep Ukraine from flushing them out. Russia can't overtly help them at this point.

 

[LNBL]

PM Abbot of Australia

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/fragment/abbott-we-have-punish-guilty

Prime Minister Tony Abbott says military aircraft are on standby following his conversation with the Russian President over the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.

Mr Abbott told 2GB radio that “we have to punish the guilty”.

“We have to do our best to identify the perpetrators and bring them to justice,” he said.

Mr Abbott said Vladimir Putin had said “all the right things”, though it was up to Australia to ensure that Russian authorities are held to account.

“He said all the right things,” he said.

“Now he has to be as good as his word. I will be speaking regularly to the Russian President to do my best to hold him to his word.”

Mr Abbott said Australian authorities were doing their best to gain access to secure the site, which is still substantially under the control of the Russian-backed rebels.

“It’s more like a garden clean up than a forensic investigation,” he said.

“This is just completely unacceptable.”

Mr Abbott said Australian authorities had been deployed to Kiev and military aircraft are on standby.

“We need to be able to do our part, play our part to ensure that we get justice for the dead and closure for the living,” he said.

 

[statham]

MH17: Rebels promise safe access to site in return for truce

Is this legit? Are they really using this as a bargaining chip?

most likely worried about retaliation, which they should be.

 

[freakzilla149]

PM Abbot of Australia

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/fragment/abbott-we-have-punish-guilty

It's the only thing I like about Jingoistic right wingers. They can be tough when they need to be... well, that seems to be their default state but whatever.

 

[jchap]

They should invite international inspectors in with open arms. They will keep the rebels from being blown into oblivion for the time being.

 

[commedieu]

hand over the bodies for the families & and turn in their russian weapons for investigation / sourcing of where they originated. Serial numbers, etc, yea?

 

[BrokenEchelon]

hand over the bodies for the families & and turn in their russian weapons for investigation / sourcing of where they originated. Serial numbers, etc, yea?

 

[ponpo]

PM Abbot of Australia

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/fragment/abbott-we-have-punish-guilty

Mr Abbott told 2GB radio that “we have to punish the guilty”.

Dark Souls-esque

 

[teiresias]

MH17: Rebels promise safe access to site in return for truce

Is this legit? Are they really using this as a bargaining chip?

Shoot down plane full of innocent people, then demand truce. Sounds like shitty terrorists as backed by Russia to me.

 

[Mr.Mike]

PM Abbot of Australia

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/fragment/abbott-we-have-punish-guilty

What exactly is Abbot implying he's going to do if he investigators don't get access to the site?

I'm assuming he means he would send in special forces to secure the crash site and recover the bodies. Or does he mean to begin a bombing campaign?

 

[antonz]

What exactly is Abbot implying he's going to do if he investigators don't get access to the site?

I'm assuming he means he would send in special forces to secure the crash site and recover the bodies. Or does he mean to being a bombing campaign?

I think if things continue to escalate the way they are I could see NATO members demanding a NATO action to secure the site. Australia would certainly back NATO in such a case.

 

[SRG01]

Putin just put out a statement video which you will notice was at roughly 2:30 in the morning so you can tell he is feeling some heat though based on what he said he still doesn't give a shit.

http://news.kremlin.ru/video/2671

He starts off blaming Ukraine stating if Ukraine had not resumes military options that he knows for sure this would not had happened. All parties in the region of Ukraine need to take their responsibility for the event.

Then he states No one has the right to use this event for gain. The World should unite not divide. He also comments that not enough is being done to ensure safety at the crash site and a proper investigation which you can obviously take as another swipe at Ukraine.

He ends it vowing to continue to push for peace talks to end the military actions by Ukraine and get them to the peace tables

Actions not words, Putin.

 

[DarkFlow]

What exactly is Abbot implying he's going to do if he investigators don't get access to the site?

I'm assuming he means he would send in special forces to secure the crash site and recover the bodies. Or does he mean to being a bombing campaign?

I'm sure Abbot's thinking

 

[Mr.Mike]

Shoot down plane full of innocent people, then demand truce. Sounds like shitty terrorists as backed by Russia to me.

Sounds like Putin is trying to create another frozen conflict like in Georgia and Transitria. Certainly he doesn't seem to be above using this tragedy for his gain.

 

[Zen]

If a frozen conflict was initiated then the separatists would defacto keep the areas they have not been rooted from.

 

[Mr.Mike]

If a frozen conflict was initiated then the separatists would defacto keep the areas they have not been rooted from.

Most importantly, a frozen conflict with Russia might scare the EU away from eventually accepting the Ukraine into the EU, which is Ukraine's current long term goal.

 

[GYODX]

Most importantly, a frozen conflict with Russia might scare the EU away from eventually accepting the Ukraine into the EU, which is Ukraine current long term goal.

And if I'm not mistaken, their claim to Crimea means they can't join NATO either.

 

[neorej]

Putin during Crimea crisis: These are Russians and they are under my responsibility.
Putin now: Lol, I don't know these people, I have no control over them.

 

[antonz]

Dutch Forensic Team has arrived in Donetsk and is going to attempt to go to the crash site.

@v_solohub · 11m
Dutch forensic experts arrive to #Donetsk - plan to go to #MH17 #ukrainecrash site #MalaysiaAirlines #Ukraine

ICAO Team is in Kyiv as well.

‏@EuromaidanPR · 5m
#ICAO experts said to have arrived in #Kyiv yesterday, started consultations http://www.unian.net/politics/94184...sii-grajdanskoy-aviatsii-pribyili-v-kiev.html … |EMPR

 

[WARP10CK]

Putin during Crimea crisis: These are Russians and they are under my responsibility.
Putin now: Lol, I don't know these people, I have no control over them.

Yeah and him now trying to evade responsibility and blaming the Ukrainians is not working people are not buying it and the US have even gone so far as to directly blame Russia.

And I can just imagine Russia's foreign and interior ministry running their asses off trying to figure out how the hell they they are gonna spin this.

 

[BunnyBear]

I wonder what and how the Russian media are reporting this to their people. Very curious.

 

[antonz]

I wonder what and how the Russian media are reporting this to their people. Very curious.

Headline Examples

Donetsk militia put MH17 bodies on train amidst concerns over intl experts’ absence

Putin: Taskforce at Malaysia MH17 crash site not enough, full-scale intl team needed

‘Too good opportunity to miss’: MH17 blame game has political motives, may lead to war

Moscow: No Buk missile systems or any other weapons crossed Russia-Ukraine border

 

[Sayter]

I wonder what and how the Russian media are reporting this to their people. Very curious.

 

[neorej]

Dutch Forensic Team has arrived in Donetsk and is going to attempt to go to the crash site.

ICAO Team is in Kyiv as well.

Part of me is hoping they brought best Dutch to ensure safe passing and full access.

 

[petran79]

I think most Russians' motivation is same as Putin's: to reclaim the glory associated Soviet Union past. They'd rather be a bully that you fear then a regular decent citizen of the world.

Not Soviet Union, Russian Empire in general.
there is a deep belief, true to some extent, that the Russians were the ones who brought civilization to the Caucasus region and Central Asia. Those people prior to that were savages.

 

[ralexand]

You would think with the lost of 300 civilians, someone would break ranks and admit wrongdoing giving the fact it would take many people to pull it off in the first place.

 

[Kinan]

"thats a nice ring. surely noone will notice"

 

[AusRoachman]

News just in is that Ukraine army is attacking rebels near the trains they are using to load the dead , I hope they kill every last one of them and retrieve the remains .

 

[Tugatrix]

"thats a nice ring. surely noone will notice"

Son of a bitch, that one import element of identification of a victim after dental records

 

[dejay]

Son of a bitch, that one import element of identification of a victim after dental records

Listening to an ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corp, quite reputable) reporter on the way home tonight - every bag they saw was open, every purse and wallet had been gone through.

 

[Tadaima]

Listening to an ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corp, quite reputable) reporter on the way home tonight - every bag they saw was open, every purse and wallet had been gone through.

Absolutely despicable.

 

[neorej]

Dutch Forensic Team is at the trains as we speak;
https://twitter.com/roelvanhees/statuses/491149222847463424

bij de trein.. Chaotisch! Verschrikkelijk geur bij openen deuren.. Ned onderzoeksteam heeft goed hoop op vertrek

at the train .. Chaotic! Horrible smell when opening doors .. Ned research team has good hope of departure

 

[Kinky John]

Listening to an ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corp, quite reputable) reporter on the way home tonight - every bag they saw was open, every purse and wallet had been gone through.

Sky News reporters at work.

 

[EVIL]

Absolutely despicable.

which is why the banks have preemptively blocked all accounts of the victims, to prevent plundering of bank accounts.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Nobody should - and no one has the right to - use this tragedy to achieve selfish political ends. Such events should not divide people but unite them

We can say with confidence that if fighting in eastern Ukraine had not been renewed on 28 June, this tragedy would not have happened. Nobody should or does have a right to use this tragedy for mercenary objectives.

lol

 

[zoukka]

Listening to an ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corp, quite reputable) reporter on the way home tonight - every bag they saw was open, every purse and wallet had been gone through.

Also fingers had been removed to get to the rings.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Russia's rouble-denominated MICEX index - one of the two main indexes of the Moscow Exchange - falls below 1,400 points for the first time since mid-May. Reuters says "investors are worried about the impact from sanctions imposed on several domestic companies and the conflict around Ukraine

It begins, good stuff.

 

[Aiii]

The things I wish upon these "rebels" would likely get me banned, so I'll just utter my general disgust at desecrating the bodies of these innocent murdered people and leave it at that.

 

[Slayer-33]

The way this whole ordeal has been handled seems to be utterly disgusting across the board, that goes for the international response and those involved in bringing this plane down. I can't put into words the rage I feel for the victims and families.

This is total bullshit

 

[Chuckie]

Also fingers had been removed to get to the rings.

Jesus Christ. Is this confirmed? It sounds too horrible to be true :/

 

[Polari]

A Twitter account called "EuromaidanPR" sounds like a reputable source on matters.

 

[mo60]

MH17: Rebels promise safe access to site in return for truce

Is this legit? Are they really using this as a bargaining chip?

. I really hope Russia or the rebels don't try to use the dead bodies as a political tool as talked about in that link above, but some political leaders may want a ceasefire so they get safe access to the crash site or whatever is left of it.

 

[zoukka]

Jesus Christ. Is this confirmed? It sounds too horrible to be true :/

Heard it on my local Finnish radio this morning, dunno beyond that. But I would imagine rigor mortis would prevent getting rings off without some cutting

 

[Abounder]

MH17: Rebels promise safe access to site in return for truce

Is this legit? Are they really using this as a bargaining chip?

President Obama and Chancellor Angela Merkel have been saying the same thing have they not (they want a cease-fire)?

What is important now is for an independent investigation to take place as soon as possible," Merkel told reporters.

"For that, a ceasefire is needed, and then it is of course crucial for those responsible to be brought to justice."

https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/24498656/merkel-urges-immediate-ceasefire-in-ukraine/

President Obama on Friday called for all sides to “adhere to an immediate cease-fire” in eastern Ukraine and for international investigators to receive unfettered access to the crash site of a Malaysian Airlines passenger jet that was shot down in territory held by Russian-backed separatist rebels.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/18/obama-calls-immediate-ceasefire-ukraine/

 

[xbhaskarx]

Sounds like Putin is trying to create another frozen conflict like in Georgia and Transitria. Certainly he doesn't seem to be above using this tragedy for his gain.

Yup...

 

[Polari]

They are also aping to some extent, Putin's absurd comical hypermasculinity.

RussiaGaf, is that a broad cultural thing, or just Putin's ego/marketing?

I'd say they're behaving like rebels in a warzone generally do.

Also the word "murdered" keeps getting thrown around (even by the Australian PM). I think we're fairly certain the rebels were responsible, but if so it seems likely the loss of civilian life was unintentional, which means it isn't murder. Otherwise I guess by the same standard the shooting down of Iran Air 655 was murder, and Reagan deserved to be vilified as much as Putin, if not more so. If we're talking about behaving callously, remember he and his successors consistently refused to apologise for the death of 290 civilians.

 

[neorej]

I'd say they're behaving like rebels in a warzone generally do.

Also the word "murdered" keeps getting thrown around (even by the Australian PM). I think we're fairly certain the rebels were responsible, but if so it seems likely the loss of civilian life was unintentional, which means it isn't murder. Otherwise I guess by the same standard the shooting down of Iran Air 655 was murder, and Reagan deserved to be vilified as much as Putin, if not more so. If we're talking about behaving callously, remember he and his successors consistently refused to apologise for the death of 290 civilians.

Yes, let's compare two completely different and unrelated incidents. I'm getting really sick and tired of this whataboutism.

 

[KingSnake]

I'd say they're behaving like rebels in a warzone generally do.

Also the word "murdered" keeps getting thrown around (even by the Australian PM). I think we're fairly certain the rebels were responsible, but if so it seems likely the loss of civilian life was unintentional, which means it isn't murder. Otherwise I guess by the same standard the shooting down of Iran Air 655 was murder, and Reagan deserved to be vilified as much as Putin, if not more so. If we're talking about behaving callously, remember he and his successors consistently refused to apologise for the death of 290 civilians.

Someone shoots one of your family members (by accident). Instead of that someone being punished according to the law you keep meeting people that tell you to drop it, because there was someone else 16 years ago that got away with manslaughter. You will probably feel that it is right.

Also that someone was given the gun and money by a local mafia boss just to keep the police busy while he can run his business as usual. I'm sure you will be still fine with it.

 

[Paganmoon]

I'd say they're behaving like rebels in a warzone generally do.

Also the word "murdered" keeps getting thrown around (even by the Australian PM). I think we're fairly certain the rebels were responsible, but if so it seems likely the loss of civilian life was unintentional, which means it isn't murder. Otherwise I guess by the same standard the shooting down of Iran Air 655 was murder, and Reagan deserved to be vilified as much as Putin, if not more so. If we're talking about behaving callously, remember he and his successors consistently refused to apologise for the death of 290 civilians.

Incompetence doesn't excuse or change anything, they killed 298 people, I call that murder a massacre.

"we really meant to kill someone else"... so fucking what.