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[sangreal]

How did these rebels get so well armed? They're taking down jets and airliners. That's insane and infuriating.

From the Russian government... which was well known even before today. Just today the US announced new sanctions because of the flow of weaponry from Russia

 

[Maxim726X]

I'm making this flight path on the 27th!

Not anymore, you're not.

 

[Little Old Man]

Why do so many seem on edge here? WW3 nor anything like that is about to happen.

Anyway, my thoughts go out to the families of those on board.

All airlines will avoid flying over this part of the world now for sure, no company will risk the hit to its public perception of safety.

 

[elty]

Does the Ukrainian military have the capability to shoot down a passenger aircraft? The plane had to be at full altitude when it happened (35k feet, give or take). From everything I read when the violence between Ukraine and Russia broke out, their military is aging and severely handicapped/underfunded. I thought it took fairly sophisticated anti-aircraft weaponry to actually hit a plane that high, else every plane in Afghanistan would be shot down.

Of course they do. They are still using Soviet SAMs and those are very capable.

Even SAM system from the 60s can shoot down an airline, which has no defense of any kind. If the rebel did this, chances are they captured the SAM from Ukraine military.

 

[zma1013]

That's my question. Surely technology sophisticated enough to target a plane 30,000 feet (and up to 72,000 feet) in the sky would be sophisticated enough to distinguish between commercial and military vehicles.

I dunno, I don't think the 2 are mutually exclusive. I doubt they target something and a little red light comes on that says "Civilian Airliner Targeted."

 

[Tex117]

This will politically get worse before it gets better. These things usually don't happen due to an "accident."

Thoughts and prayers for the families of the passengers. What a loss.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

The point is that he THOUGHT he'd shot down an AN-26 when in reality he'd just shot down 300 innocent travelers.

What? Where did you get this from?

There was a AN-26 shot down:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28299334

I don't know where people are getting this mix-up thing from?

 

[LNBL]

Dutch passenger posted this picture on FB 7 hours ago with the text

"If it goes missing, this is how it looks like."

On board was also his wife/girlfriend

What are the fucking chances of this happening after him posting this.

 

[Topsu]

What the fuck!? This world is a crazy scary place!

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Of course they'd say that now. Back on the 29th of June, they were proudly saying they had captured a BUK missile system.

welp.

That's if the remains if the plane haven't been looted.

I dunno, I don't think the 2 are mutually exclusive. I doubt they target something and a little red light comes on that says "Civilian Airliner Targeted."

The question isn't one of intent; it's one of what the limits of the technology are. Why would a targeting system like this not have at least some sort of method to differentiate between commercial and military vehicles? If it does, did they know how to use it?

 

[Skilotonn]

So damn terrible.

R.I.P. to the victims.

 

[fertygo]

What the fuck, one of News TV in indonesia already manage to contact allegedly family victim and interviewing them on the phone.. fuck these guy man....

 

[Kiraly]

The reactions of friends and family on that facebook picture of the Dutch man boarding the plane are sickening, they are slowly realizing it is the same plane.

 

[PhantomHound]

BBC and Fox news are now saying that it's possible a military jet shot it down.

 

[zma1013]

Why do so many seem on edge here? WW3 nor anything like that is about to happen.

I blame Tom Clancy.

 

[DSN2K]

What? Where did you get this from?

There was a AN-26 shot down:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28299334

I don't know where people are getting this mix-up thing from?

they put out another message about a second AN-26 shock down.

 

[gofreak]

http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_...trol-of-Ukrainian-anti-air-installation-1561/

Like I said earlier, they have claimed downings of other planes in the past that were flying much higher than 3km ... (unless there's more than one group here and I'm mixing them up!)

 

[Locke Lamora]

Simon Shuster @shustry · 2 Min.
Spoke to Ukraine separatist leader Tsarev. Says they don't have the weapons to take down #MH17. Hung up when asked about their BUK missiles
https://twitter.com/shustry/status/489817136408178688

 

[CreeperBlocks]

On board was also his wife/girlfriend

What are the fucking chances of this happening after him posting this.

Fuck, this is depressing

 

[MisterFalcon]

Dude, you obviously cant see that from 30k feet below.... Theyre just a dot in the radar screen...

A 777 is much, much faster then a propellor driven An-26.

But it could well be the same as the Vincennes shooting down the Iranian Airbus where someone switched distance with altitude that made it seem the plane was in a dive.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

It's still possible that the Ukrainian military might have shot it down thinking that it was a troop or supply transport, right? That would be tragic.

 

[icespide]

The reactions of friends and family on that facebook picture of the Dutch man boarding the plane are sickening, they are slowly realizing it is the same plane.

god damn...that's fucked up

 

[Wind's Howling]

What? Where did you get this from?

There was a AN-26 shot down:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28299334

I don't know where people are getting this mix-up thing from?

There is an awful lot of speculation going on so this type of news will get mixed up quite frequently.

This post can not be quoted enough, though.

 

[D4Danger]

What the fuck, one of News TV in indonesia already manage to contact allegedly family victim and interviewing them on the phone.. fuck these guy man....

gross.

 

[Uzzy]

A rag-tag bunch of separatists generally don't have the technology to take out planes 30,000 feet in the air.

They do when they capture BUK missile systems from the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

 

[sangreal]

What? Where did you get this from?

There was a AN-26 shot down:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28299334

I don't know where people are getting this mix-up thing from?

That was days ago. They posted today about shooting one down

 

[NYCmetsfan]

What is this guy saying?
edit:

17.07.2014 17:50 Message from [I forget how to translate this word... it's military related, I believe it's from higher ranking people]

"Just shot down an AN-26 plane on Toreza area, crashed around the the Progress mine.

We warned them about flying in "our sky".

And here's a video confirming another "plane falling". [He says something along the lines of "birdfall" but I figure this would be clearer]

The bird fell past the territory, living sector was not hit.

Civilians Peaceful people were not hurt.

And there's also information about a second plane being shot down, looks to be a SU."

Supposedly (according to twitter) the translation isn't an admission of guilt but a statement of what happened. The english translation is saying something that's not in the Russian (again according to twitter I don't know russian).

 

[Knoxcore]

It really isn´t. This morning AP jounalists in this very Region saw BUK Missile launchers and were wondering, where the rebels got such sophisticated weaponry. Then the rebel commander boast of a takedown of an Ukrainian Military Transport plane, and links to a YouTube Video showing the downed MH flight.

Very straight forward.

I agree, the evidence is damning to support the possibility MH17 was shot down, but we need definitive confirmation.

 

[Windam]

Dutch passenger posted this picture on FB 7 hours ago with the text

"If it goes missing, this is how it looks like."

Goddamn.

 

[SniperHunter]

https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/489806899916050432/photo/1

NSFW (Very disturbing)

jesus christ

 

[BigAl1992]

One thing is for certain, a line has been crossed and there's no going back.

 

[bonercop]

yea, gonna need some receipts.

 

[Juicy Bob]

Well, I hope these pro-Russian separatist extremeists aren't expecting Russia to leap to their defence after all this...

 

[SummitAve]

One thing is for certain, a line has been crossed and there's no going back.

Is it for certain that it wasn't an accident?

 

[helloresolven]

Stupid news asking if this is terrorism. This is war, not terrorism. Christ, idiots.

 

[Xyrmellon]

For those thinking the rebels didn't have long range SAM'S:

Steve Herman ‏@W7VOA · 7m
Rebels claimed to have acquired BUK unit when they took control of #Ukraine air-defense base №А-1402 June 29.
http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1287030 … #MH17

 

[Uzzy]

It's still possible that the Ukrainian military might have shot it down thinking that it was a troop or supply transport, right? That would be tragic.

The rebels don't have planes. So the Ukrainians would have to be insanely incompetent to even fire an anti-air missile.

 

[Prez]

On board was also his wife/girlfriend

What are the fucking chances of this happening after him posting this.

I'm guessing you'd find a Facebook post like that for most Malaysian Airlines flights since the missing plane.

 

[FTF]

...holy shit, just hearing and reading about this now.

 

[RustyNails]

NYT reporter Ellen Barry (https://twitter.com/EllenBarryNYT/status/489800836625596416):

Per Interfax: Pro-Russian militia leaders deny involvement. "We simply do not have such air defense systems," MANPADs reach only 4000m.

 

[DrSlek]

Of course they'd say that now. Back on the 29th of June, they were proudly saying they had captured a BUK missile system.

A cursory glance of the various missiles for the BUK system suggests that they can reach altitudes from 11km up to 50km.

So I'm having a hard time believing the rebels.

 

[CreeperBlocks]

Simon Shuster @shustry · 2 Min.
Spoke to Ukraine separatist leader Tsarev. Says they don't have the weapons to take down #MH17. Hung up when asked about their BUK missiles
https://twitter.com/shustry/status/489817136408178688

Welp

 

[Tesseract]

this is a nightmare scenario, hold onto your butts

 

[fuzzyset]

Of course they do. They are still using Soviet SAMs and those are very capable.

Even SAM system from the 60s can shoot down an airline, which has no defense of any kind. If the rebel did this, chances are they captured the SAM from Ukraine military.

Exactly, I said 70s on the last page but you're correct. The control and command needed to take down an airline is pretty rudimentary, tbh. First gen thermal targeting will easily lock on to those gigantic GE engines .

 

[Cow Mengde]

Of course they'd say that now. Back on the 29th of June, they were proudly saying they had captured a BUK missile system.

Well, I think we know who's lying in this case.

 

[Wind's Howling]

That was days ago. They posted today about shooting one down

Oh, wait. Really? Are they just shooting planes at random there? Damn.

"I woke up with a hangover. Fuck it, let me shoot another plane down"

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

NYT reporter Ellen Barry (https://twitter.com/EllenBarryNYT/status/489800836625596416):

Per Interfax: Pro-Russian militia leaders deny involvement. "We simply do not have such air defense systems," MANPADs reach only 4000m.

http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1287030

They are lying.

 

[MrCat]

This is a false flag attack to get popular support for NATO to do the bidding of the western energy interests. New tougher sanctions the day before this is not a coincidence, but a chance to corner Russia. To bad for the west, China won't play ball despite of this false flag... and Europe will be left without Russian gas very shortly if they try anything.

It disgusts me that someone has it for the poor Malaysian people.

 

[Sober]

It's still possible that the Ukrainian military might have shot it down thinking that it was a troop or supply transport, right? That would be tragic.

Doubtful. I agree with the other gaffer, if it was the military, they have rules of engagement and wouldn't go trigger happy just because they saw a plane in the sky.

 

[Loud Hawk]

They're just dots on a radar.

:/

Even on a radar screen there is a massive difference between an aircraft at 35k ft and a cruising speed of 905km/h and an aircraft moving at 440km/h with a service ceiling of 7300ft.