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[TheContact]

I've seen a few times people mention women and children casualties on TV, which is indeed true, but please do not act like these male casualties were at war and are somehow dispensable. It just grinds my gears, that is some dark ages mentality.

Hey guys, this really bad thing happened and it's even worse because women and children were among the casualties.

I think it all comes down to value. I would easily give my life to save my daughter and my wife because their lives are so much more valuable than mine

Therefore when children and women die the value of death is higher and thus more tragic

 

[Skeyser]

I think it all comes down to value. I would easily give my life to save my daughter and my wife because their lives are so much more valuable than mine

Therefore when children and women die the value of death is higher and thus more tragic

Why is your wife life so much more valuable than yours?

Serious question.

 

[ponpo]

Sorry if stuff was posted but what are official responses from The Netherlands / Malaysian governments? People keep talking about the US.

 

[Gritesh]

Why is your wife life so much more valuable than yours?

Serious question.

Offers the chance for human reproduction, while I know that men do as the world would require far less men to reproduce than women, easier to spread the seed with more woman then men...etc...

Also I value my wife and kids life more than mine
But that's not for this thread.

 

[superdeluxe]

Sorry if stuff was posted but what are official responses from The Netherlands / Malaysian governments? People keep talking about the US.

Rightly or wrongly people always looks to America first to make a statement.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Why is your wife life so much more valuable than yours?

Serious question.

Because often HUMAN BEINGS feel a thing called "love," which matters a lot in situations where someone's life is in danger.

 

[freakzilla149]

conspiracy theories have started circulating already (i.e. US intelligence shot the plane down to booster support for further russian sanctions and/or intervention).

Wouldn't put past the CIA or some other branch of the US military/intelligence. Not I believe it.

I think it all comes down to value. I would easily give my life to save my daughter and my wife because their lives are so much more valuable than mine

Therefore when children and women die the value of death is higher and thus more tragic

This makes no sense. Are you saying women and children's lives are just more valuable than men's?

 

[wapplew]

Fuck, why Malaysia airline again? What did we do to deserve this?
We are just one little peaceful country. 2 planes crisis within a quarter? Just too much.

Malaysia Airline cannot recover from this.

 

[Wessiej]

Sorry if stuff was posted but what are official responses from The Netherlands / Malaysian governments? People keep talking about the US.

Dutch: Very sad that it happened, a team will investigate what happens and if a group of people is responsible for it they will fight them in court. They will bring them to justice. But they don't want to point any fingers yet.

 

[Mully]

Right, but let's say they hijacked a M1A2 (or like t-84 or in their case), then you would know how to operate it. Is it inconceivable to think that there isn't ex military that would know how to operate a buk missile or at least another SAM?

Considering that most men in the Marines and Army are infantry, I highly doubt there'd be ample amount of M1A2 operators available. This gets more difficult when you consider how specialized the Buk is in a modern army where most wars are one-sided in the air.

 

[NH Apache]

Please stop with this stupid thread. He made a very specific claim. I asked him for the source. I will NOT read 2200 replies in the other thread because there *might* be a source. Antonz is notorious for posting propaganda links and news without sources. I am tired of this. I was just asking him if he can provide a source to his post. If he can not, which is obviously the case, I have to assume that he just made this up. Like before. I hope other people will remember such behaviour.



I have no idea why you think I am trying to "defend Russia". I think Putin is a fucking cunt and a criminal, and I hate what he is doing to that country. But that doesn't mean that I support stupid propaganda from the other side.

It seems like you have a greater issue with Antonz than the actual question you asked. I'm not sure where you get your information about him, but every post I've seem of his has been in the Ukraine thread and has a verifiable link attached to it.

As for your question, the "Russian separatists" publicly identify as Russian. Your question was so general that I referred you to the thread. Every post of yours seems antagonistic and I'm not quite sure why.

Your question seems more appropriate for the other thread, located here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=802557.

 

[ponpo]

Dutch: Very sad that it happened, a team will investigate what happens and if a group of people is responsible for it they will fight them in court. They will bring them to justice. But they don't want to point any fingers yet.

Quite diplomatic.

 

[NervousXtian]

Why is your wife life so much more valuable than yours?

Serious question.

Because, some humans have these things called emotions. We like to use them.

I'd give my life in a heartbeat to save my wife or kids. Wouldn't even think twice.

 

[ShinHayase]

Sorry if stuff was posted but what are official responses from The Netherlands / Malaysian governments? People keep talking about the US.

Dutch government wants to wait for the facts before conclusions are drawn. They want unlimited acces to the site and recordings though.

This of course next to condolences and grief.

 

[ElyrionX]

Do we know whether other airlines have also been flying through that airspace in the past weeks or months?

 

[Wessiej]

Quite diplomatic.

We always are.

Do we know whether other airlines have also been flying through that airspace in the past weeks or months?

Yes it is not a hostile flight zone so airlines flew through them.

Edit: Let me rephrase that: it wasn't a hostile zone. I

 

[ElyrionX]

We always are.



Yes it is not a hostile flight zone so airlines flew through them.

Edit: Let me rephrase that: it wasn't a hostile zone. I

Any idea whether there were any airlines that took active steps to avoid the zone before this incident?

 

[Yagharek]

Fuck, why Malaysia airline again? What did we do to deserve this?
We are just one little peaceful country. 2 planes crisis within a quarter? Just too much.

Malaysia Airline cannot recover from this.

No one holds Malaysia Airlines responsible for this flight. It is the fault of Russia and Russia alone.

 

[Wessiej]

Any idea whether there were any airlines that took active steps to avoid the zone before this incident?

As far as I know not. Airlines avoided the Krim, but not the east of the Ukraine. But I'm not precisely certain of this. In a press conference with the KLM/Malaysia Airlines tonight the question was asked why they didn't avoid it, and they said no airline thought of it as a risk zone. It is also the thirth time that a passenger flight has been taken down so nobody thought this was going to happen.

 

[Tapiozona]

Offers the chance for human reproduction, while I know that men do as the world would require far less men to reproduce than women, easier to spread the seed with more woman then men...etc...

Also I value my wife and kids life more than mine
But that's not for this thread.

Maybe with the assumption that human life is scarce. With 3.5 billion women on this planet, your wife's life is of no more value than yours. Your argument would probably hold true in some post apocalyptic scenario, which this isn't.

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

Maybe with the assumption that human life is scarce. With 3.5 billion women on this planet, your wife's life is of no more value than yours. Your argument would probably hold true in some post apocalyptic scenario, which this isn't.

Also it would follow that the lives of barren women are less valuable even now. It's obviously ok to admit that we would sacrifice our lives for loved ones, no need to talk about 'value'.

Anyway, still can't quite believe this happened and hope something is quickly done to make sure it doesn't happen again.

 

[Jake.]

Any idea whether there were any airlines that took active steps to avoid the zone before this incident?

if you spent thirty seconds researching you would find this answer yourself. british airways, KLM and korea airlines had avoided the area for months, although the flight route taken by MH170 had still been declared "safe" by the UN's aviation arm (the ICAO).

 

[Stinkles]

Why is your wife life so much more valuable than yours?

Serious question.

Mine is more than halfway done, statistically she will live longer and take care of my daughter better than I could. And that's just the rational value. It's not hard to understand.

 

[Zukuu]

area of the debris

 

[Gemüsepizza]

It seems like you have a greater issue with Antonz than the actual question you asked. I'm not sure where you get your information about him, but every post I've seem of his has been in the Ukraine thread and has a verifiable link attached to it.

As for your question, the "Russian separatists" publicly identify as Russian. Your question was so general that I referred you to the thread. Every post of yours seems antagonistic and I'm not quite sure why.

Your question seems more appropriate for the other thread, located here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=802557.

There was nothing general about my question.

He said:

"Probably 95% of the "Rebels" are Russian Soldiers. [...]"

I asked:

"Can you provide a source for this please?"

He made his statement here, so why should I ask this question somewhere else? Also it seems that you are not aware that the other thread is a thread strictly for "news", it's probably not a good idea to encourage people to start discussions there which could get them banned.

 

[Fenderputty]

Jesus Christ! Why do you assume I don't know? Just as we don't want to invade Russia due to the nukes, they also cannot start a war because of our nukes. I.e. M.A.D. No matter how crazy Putin is, he will not lauch a nuclear attack if we push him out of Ukraine.

I see no reason to be overly accommodating to the Russians. If we do not contain Putin, we really will see a second cold war. Russia should be contained until it can be trusted.

Skip the cold war and go straight to war because we won't nuke each other?

 

[Zukuu]

an interesting analysis:

There are three likely possibilities as to who shot the aircraft down: Ukrainian military forces, Russian-aligned separatists (with or without Russian military assistance), and finally one of these two forces attempting to make it look like the other committed the act.
It looks as if the US may have tracked some part of the missile launch, possibly using the Space Based Infrared Radar system of satellites. It is highly likely that US national technical assets will be able to approximate the point of origin of the launch, and the launcher. This means it will be up to the US to make the case as to who fired the missile, potentially putting Washington in a position of greater direct confrontation with Russia (beyond recently announced sanctions).

more at the link:
http://www.lowyinterpreter.org/post...alia-should-step-up.aspx#.U8h39M4LBgM.twitter

 

[HI. BILLY MAYS HERE]

It seems like you have a greater issue with Antonz than the actual question you asked. I'm not sure where you get your information about him, but every post I've seem of his has been in the Ukraine thread and has a verifiable link attached to it.

As for your question, the "Russian separatists" publicly identify as Russian. Your question was so general that I referred you to the thread. Every post of yours seems antagonistic and I'm not quite sure why.

Your question seems more appropriate for the other thread, located here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=802557.

burden of proof lies with the person making the claim

 

[Mully]

This thread is going to turn into a hypothetical discussion about if there could be WW3 and who would win, isn't it?

 

[Zomba13]

This makes no sense. Are you saying women and children's lives are just more valuable than men's?

I think he is saying he would rather die than have his child and wife die and that a child's life is more valuable due to them having such potential and life left in them compared to a fully grown man.

 

[HI. BILLY MAYS HERE]

This thread is going to turn into a hypothetical discussion about if there could be WW3 and who would win, isn't it?

we all know who would win

'MURICA

 

[DJ SLEV3N]

To remind people, if this is a BUK, we are talking well over a year of training to operate this thing successfully. This isn't used by some hoodlums fighting for mother Russia, whoever fired this was a group of trained professionals.

 

[Zukuu]

To remind people, if this is a BUK, we are talking well over a year of training to operate this thing successfully. This isn't used by some hoodlums fighting for mother Russia, whoever fired this was a trained professional at their job.

At a June 30 Pentagon news conference, NATO Supreme Commander Gen. Philip Breedlove said Russia had been providing air defense training to Russian separatists on its side of the border with Ukraine that focused on “vehicle-borne” surface-to-air missiles

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politic...ssian-anti-aircraft-training-for-separatists/

 

[D23]

There's a very graphic video on liveleak that shows many of the burned bodies on the crash site. Oh god I wish I didn't see that... Those poor people

 

[Kenshin001]

No one holds Malaysia Airlines responsible for this flight. It is the fault of Russia and Russia alone.

I do. Flying across a warzone, especially after cargo planes had been shot down, was risky and dumb. Doubly dumb for an airline whose plane disappeared without trace just a few months ago. Other airlines had taken precautions, MA should have followed suit. Never flying MA ever.

 

[Sayter]

There was nothing general about my question.

He said:



I asked:



He made his statement here, so why should I ask this question somewhere else? Also it seems that you are not aware that the other thread is a thread strictly for "news", it's probably not a good idea to encourage people to start discussions there which could get them banned.

Here ya go. It'll take a little time to read. But from it you get a good idea of Russia's involvement.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_pro-Russian_unrest_in_Ukraine

 

[Kraftwerk]

Is this real?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbyZYgSXdyw

 

[Zukuu]

Is this real?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbyZYgSXdyw

the translation is accurate (a gaffer also translated it way earlier in the thread). The video itself seems to be real, but it's obviously to early to confirm it officially. I heard it was released by ukraine secret service themselves.

 

[Yagharek]

To remind people, if this is a BUK, we are talking well over a year of training to operate this thing successfully. This isn't used by some hoodlums fighting for mother Russia, whoever fired this was a group of trained professionals.

I thought it was obvious when Russia stole Crimea that they had been sending in not only soldiers but surely special forces as well.

I dont doubt for a second that this was the act of Russian soldiers.

 

[Shiggy]

To remind people, if this is a BUK, we are talking well over a year of training to operate this thing successfully. This isn't used by some hoodlums fighting for mother Russia, whoever fired this was a group of trained professionals.

There have been very recent reports about people in uniforms without any emblems, just as what happened on the Krim. There were also Russian soldiers which did not identify as such. It's no secret that Russia supports the separists in various ways...

I do. Flying across a warzone, especially after cargo planes had been shot down, was risky and dumb. Doubly dumb for an airline whose plane disappeared without trace just a few months ago. Other airlines had taken precautions, MA should have followed suit. Never flying MA ever.

Im pretty sure that I took the route through Ukraine with Emirates just a few weeks ago. A lot of airlines didn't avoid that zone.

 

[figadapaura]

we all know who would win

NOBODY

ftfy

 

[Kenshin001]

There have been very recent reports about people in uniforms without any emblems, just as what happened on the Krim. There were also Russian soldiers which did not identify as such. It's no secret that Russia supports the separists in various ways...

Im pretty sure that I took the route through Ukraine with Emirates just a few weeks ago. A lot of airlines didn't avoid that zone.

A lot of airlines did. Qantas, Asiana, KAL, Cathay Pacific, all US airlines. Months ago. Any airline that continued to use that route, especially after the cargo plane was shot down, was taking a risk.

 

[Wyndstryker]

For those saying the Buk can be used by a ragtag group need to see this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDXScnEKaP0

Also like all modern SAM systems, they're mobile. It's not a single vehicle but several making the entire system. Being able to operate not just the individual vehicles, but use them in sync definitely requires a certain degree of training. Also these aren't small insurgent level weapons, these things can shoot down almost anything that flies if given the right circumstances.

 

[Sayter]

A lot of airlines did. Qantas, Asiana, KAL, Cathay Pacific, all US airlines. Months ago. Any airline that continued to use that route, especially after the cargo plane was shot down, was taking a risk.

flight route was declared safe and unrestricted by the ICAO and IATA

https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=489929313760722944

 

[Zukuu]

For those saying the Buk can be used by a ragtag group need to see this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDXScnEKaP0

Also like all modern SAM systems, they're mobile. It's not a single vehicle but several making the entire system. Being able to operate not just the individual vehicles, but use them in sync definitely requires a certain degree of training. Also these aren't small insurgent level weapons, these things can shoot down almost anything that flies if given the right circumstances.

like 10 posts above you:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=121540429&postcount=2936

 

[Moby]

Get ready for some dick eating, I guess.

This.

 

[RustyNails]

Indian Prime Minister's flight was in the same corridor, just one hour behind:

MH-17 came down at Torez, near Shakhtersk, some 40 km from the Russia border in Ukraine after going off the radar at 1320 gmt. The PM 's flight Air India-001 took off from Frankfurt at 1122 gmt, and the flight time to Donetsk would be approximately 3 hours. That would have put him right over the Ukraine Flight Information Region (FIR) about an hour later.

 

[SniperHunter]

Indian Prime Minister's flight was in the same corridor, just one hour behind:

Holy shit

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

Offers the chance for human reproduction, while I know that men do as the world would require far less men to reproduce than women, easier to spread the seed with more woman then men...etc...

Also I value my wife and kids life more than mine
But that's not for this thread.

So you value the life of a woman because she can hold more seed?

Why do we even care about that at this point of human civilization?

 

[Kenshin001]

https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=489929313760722944

And? Prudent airlines still chose not to fly over the area and stopped doing so months ago, including the one that has never had a fatality and one that had its plane shot down by Russians years ago. Malaysian Airlines had a plane disappear only months ago yet still put their passengers at risk.