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Malaysia Airlines flight en route from Amsterdam shot down over Ukraine; no survivors

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A

antonz

Member
Gemüsepizza;121531936 said:
I'm curious why you are ignoring me, when I ask you for a source for your claims here? Or did you make this up?
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I have nothing else to say to you. You avoid reality and frankly I deal with enough Russian trolls on twitter
 
G

Gemüsepizza

Member
antonz said:
I have nothing else to say to you. You avoid reality and frankly I deal with enough Russian trolls on twitter
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How am I "avoiding reality" when I just want you to post a source for your claims? And how is this trolling? To me it seems more like you are the one who is ignoring reality, when you post stuff like this without sourcing it.
 
B

braves01

Banned
Some rebel really fucked up with this one. I bet Russia's pissed off about this, too, despite Putin's cowardly assertion Ukraine is somehow to blame for this.
 
N

NH Apache

Banned
Gemüsepizza;121532083 said:
How am I "avoiding reality" when I just want you to post a source for your claims? And how is this trolling?
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I suggest reading the Ukraine thread where everything is sourced.
 
S

soxinthebox

Member
This is bullshit. It's depressing there's no way to stop random acts of violence like these. There'll never be any justice for those people.
 
N

NervousXtian

Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
freakzilla149 said:
It's kind of silly really, who the fuck is Russia to bully Ukraine? Britain and France alone could cripple Russia in a conventional war. Europe hasn't stopped innovating with end of the USSR.

If Europe only had the balls to put its foot down and tell Putin to fuck off, he'd be helpless.
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Well, the fact they still have enough nuclear arms to kill every living thing on the planet.

That's a pretty damn good reason to not poke at beehives.

Also, as you can see with what's happened now with Ukraine that Russia hasn't really given a fuck about what others think. Hopefully this will be the wake-up call that Russia needs to understand that they need to back off. It's stupid at this point that Russia can't play nice with the EU and the US.. there's seriously no reason to not too at this point. Such pointless bullshit.
 
T

TheLostBigBoss

Banned
braves01 said:
Some rebel really fucked up with this one. I bet Russia's pissed off about this, too, despite Putin's cowardly assertion Ukraine is somehow to blame for this.
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Putin is most definitely not happy with this. His whole rebel operation just went to hell in a hand basket. I will eat a dick if the international community doesn't absolutely obliterate the rebels after this is done with.
 
S

ShinHayase

Member
freakzilla149 said:
It's kind of silly really, who the fuck is Russia to bully Ukraine? Britain and France alone could cripple Russia in a conventional war. Europe hasn't stopped innovating with end of the USSR.

If Europe only had the balls to put its foot down and tell Putin to fuck off, he'd be helpless.
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Really?


Seriously, really?


Edit: just cannot believe how simple war is looked upon by some.

"We are angry an maybe stronger so let's start a war between Western Europe and The Russian Federation!"
 
TheContact

TheContact

Member
braves01 said:
Some rebel really fucked up with this one. I bet Russia's pissed off about this, too, despite Putin's cowardly assertion Ukraine is somehow to blame for this.
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He was an asshole about that, "It's a tragedy; *moment of silence*; If Ukraine had just given up this wouldnt've happened" What a dick move.

soxinthebox said:
This is bullshit. It's depressing there's no way to stop random acts of violence like these. There'll never be any justice for those people.
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obvious AQ, but yeah bullshit is a great way to describe it
 
T

TheLostBigBoss

Banned
freakzilla149 said:
It's kind of silly really, who the fuck is Russia to bully Ukraine? Britain and France alone could cripple Russia in a conventional war. Europe hasn't stopped innovating with end of the USSR.

If Europe only had the balls to put its foot down and tell Putin to fuck off, he'd be helpless.
Click to expand...

I suggest doing a quick wiki search on the following terms.

Nuclear Weapons
Cold War
M.A.D
 
C

CheDominik

Member
TheLostBigBoss said:
Putin is most definitely not happy with this. His whole rebel operation just went to hell in a hand basket. I will eat a dick if the international community doesn't absolutely obliterate the rebels after this is done with.
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Well I wouldn't put it that way, but yes the most likely aftermath will be that the separtist action in the Ukraine will be stopped or at least no longer supported by Russia due to increased international pressure.

If anything happens at all that is.
 
D

DTKT

Member
Gemüsepizza;121532083 said:
How am I "avoiding reality" when I just want you to post a source for your claims? And how is this trolling? To me it seems more like you are the one who is ignoring reality, when you post stuff like this without sourcing it.
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While 95% seems like an unreasonable assertion, it's probably fair to say that rebel groups leadership positions are filled by Russian soldiers and officers. There are probably other officers serving as advisers to militia group. I'd also expect extensive training for weapons or anything else provided by Russia.

Anyway, I don't think anyone can truly defend Russia interference in the matter. Apart for anyone still clinging to the idea of a modern Russian Empire.
 
F

Fenderputty

Banned
Oersted said:
Culture creates mindsets.
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Sure. But the comparisons are a little more apt now when several years ago we were all laughing at Romney, so let's not go overboard. Plus, this guy plays the rolls so well. He's ex KGB, he rides horseback shirtless and he seems pretty vested in reuniting some semblance of the former union.
 
F

freakzilla149

Banned
TheLostBigBoss said:
I suggest doing a quick wiki search on the following terms.

Nuclear Weapons
Cold War
M.A.D
Click to expand...

Jesus Christ! Why do you assume I don't know? Just as we don't want to invade Russia due to the nukes, they also cannot start a war because of our nukes. I.e. M.A.D. No matter how crazy Putin is, he will not lauch a nuclear attack if we push him out of Ukraine.

I see no reason to be overly accommodating to the Russians. If we do not contain Putin, we really will see a second cold war. Russia should be contained until it can be trusted.
 
S

ShinHayase

Member
freakzilla149 said:
Yes, seriously. If you don't have anything substantial to say then piss off.
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No need to get rude.

See edit and again, you do not seem to grasp the consequences of a war between Western Europe (which also means NATO btw) and Russia. What it will do to the world.

Also, read some history on Europe and and their wars with Russia. Also: winter is coming.

Edit:sp
 
G

Gemüsepizza

Member
NH Apache said:
Your question has been discussed at length in the other thread. It's a very good read with sources for all information.

Here is the link: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=802557
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Please stop with this stupid thread. He made a very specific claim. I asked him for the source. I will NOT read 2200 replies in the other thread because there *might* be a source. Antonz is notorious for posting propaganda links and news without sources. I am tired of this. I was just asking him if he can provide a source to his post. If he can not, which is obviously the case, I have to assume that he just made this up. Like before. I hope other people will remember such behaviour.

DTKT said:
While 95% seems like an unreasonable assertion, it's probably fair to say that rebel groups leadership positions are filled by Russian soldiers and officers. There are probably other officers serving as advisers to militia group. I'd also expect extensive training for weapons or anything else provided by Russia.

Anyway, I don't think anyone can truly defend Russia interference in the matter. Apart for anyone still clinging to the idea of a modern Russian Empire.
Click to expand...

I have no idea why you think I am trying to "defend Russia". I think Putin is a fucking cunt and a criminal, and I hate what he is doing to that country. But that doesn't mean that I support stupid propaganda from the other side.
 
C

CheDominik

Member
ShinHayase said:
No need to get rude.

See edit and again, you do not seem to grasp the consequenses of a war between Western Europe (which also means NATO btw) and Russia. What it will do to the world.

Also, read some history on Europe and and their wars with Russia. Also: winter is coming.
Click to expand...

hindenburg-1-sized.jpg


In all seriousness though, a war between NATO and Russia is just a wet dream of war mongering fools. It's not going to happen, at least not because of this or the Ukraine crisis.
 
D

DarkFlow

Banned
ShinHayase said:
No need to get rude.

See edit and again, you do not seem to grasp the consequenses of a war between Western Europe (which also means NATO btw) and Russia. What it will do to the world.

Also, read some history on Europe and and their wars with Russia. Also: winter is coming.
Click to expand...

While I don't think we need to go starting a land war in Russia, It's not 1940 anymore. Winter is not going to slow down a modern army.
 
A

antonz

Member
DTKT said:
While 95% seems like an unreasonable assertion, it's probably fair to say that rebel groups leadership positions are filled by Russian soldiers and officers. There are probably other officers serving as advisers to militia group. I'd also expect extensive training for weapons or anything else provided by Russia.

Anyway, I don't think anyone can truly defend Russia interference in the matter. Apart for anyone still clinging to the idea of a modern Russian Empire.
Click to expand...

I don't see why 95% is unreasonable at all. Daily dozens of Kazmaz trucks with Russian fighters cross or attempt to cross the border. That's hundreds of fighters at a time.

A Russian Border Guard the other day posted pictures online from his Job at the Russian border of Tanks and APCs crossing into Ukraine.Refrigerated Semi Trucks full of corpses have made the trip from Ukraine back to Russia to bring home the "heroes of Russia"

There was no conflict until the "peaceful protestors" as Russia initially dubbed them showed up in the region
 
F

freakzilla149

Banned
ShinHayase said:
No need to get rude.

See edit and again, you do not seem to grasp the consequenses of a war between Western Europe (which also means NATO btw) and Russia. What it will do to the world.

Also, read some history on Europe and and their wars with Russia. Also: winter is coming.
Click to expand...

Did I say that we should start a war? Putting a foot down means more than just going straight to war, Europe isn't even properly committed to economic sanctions.

Russia has no hope economically, that's easy to see. I was highlighting that when push comes to shove we have more than the what it takes to beat Russia, therefore, Russia will back off.

I am not calling for war, it will not come to that.
 
S

superdeluxe

Member
There won't be a war between the west and Russia, but if it can be proven that there was any kind of Russian involvement several members of foreign armed services committee say they want to send defensive weapons to Ukr.
 
S

ShinHayase

Member
DarkFlow said:
While I don't think we need to go starting a land war in Russia, It's not 1940 anymore. Winter is not going to slow down a modern army.
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That's what they said in 1940.

And then it became -63F


But let's not derail a topic with illusions of war and other unrelated things.


Let's keep it respectful.
 
Portugeezer

Portugeezer

Member
I've seen a few times people mention women and children casualties on TV, which is indeed true, but please do not act like these male casualties were at war and are somehow dispensable. It just grinds my gears, that is some dark ages mentality.

Hey guys, this really bad thing happened and it's even worse because women and children were among the casualties.
 
D

DarkFlow

Banned
ShinHayase said:
That's what they said in 1940.

And then it became -63F


But let's not derail a topic with illusions of war and other unrelated things.


Let's keep it respectful.
Click to expand...

The German army was modernish, but it still used a ton of horses and carts, plus they did not have winter gear and the luftwaffe was in shambles by then.
 
C

commedieu

Banned
EuropeOG said:
I've seen a few times people mention women and children casualties on TV, which is indeed true, but please do not act like these male casualties were at war and are somehow dispensable. It just grinds my gears, that is some dark ages mentality.

Hey guys, this really bad thing happened and it's even worse because women and children were among the casualties.
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Think you're looking into a historic way of reporting the loss of life a bit too much.

Traditionally, women and children are the future versus men. Breeders and lifetimes to look forward to. Some of the children, were boys too, im sure. Silver lining?

#notallvictims
 
J

Jake.

Member
conspiracy theories have started circulating already (i.e. US intelligence shot the plane down to booster support for further russian sanctions and/or intervention).
 
C

CheDominik

Member
DarkFlow said:
The German army was modernish, but it still used a ton of horses and carts, plus they did not have winter gear and the luftwaffe was in shambles by then.
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Not to mention they ran short on supplies due to an overextended front and couldn't bring in fresh troops because they moved to fast. That they also were basically out of fuel and had to go to the oil fields of the caucausus didn't help as well.

But I digress and this discussion would be better in some kind of history thread.
 
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