How? When was the last time a civ airline was shot down with a SAM? It's not like they expected non military targets to be in danger at 32,000 feet.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Malaysia Airlines flight en route from Amsterdam shot down over Ukraine; no survivors
- Thread starter alfredofroylan
- Start date
- Status
Veritigo_X
Member
According to this blog post from July 15th, Russian airlines were avoiding Eastern Ukraine from FlightRader24 data.
fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
Dominican Power
Member
soxinthebox
Member
Well that's interesting
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Holy cow, I mean loss of life is loss of life. But talk about a political shitstorm if it had been that plane.
Such a heart wrenching day. I saw the video with them going through the passports, it really starts to wear on you when you can literally put a name and a face to the victims. So completely senseless.
mcain says if it russia/rebels there will be hell to pay http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/plane-ukraine-shot-down-john-mccain-reaction-109050.html
Well THAT would certainly have been interesting....
FlutterPuffs
Member
There'll be a PC today around 3-4pm Malaysian time.
I think it'll be a fairly standard brief. No surprises.
I think it'll be a fairly standard brief. No surprises.
Kenshin001
Member
Other airlines stopped flying over the area. They obviously thought there was some risk.
Why do I get the sensation you're talking sensationalist bollocks?
Madrugador
Member
This is like saying if you drive on a major highway through a major metropolitan city in the US, and get hit by a stray bullet, you're just as responsible by taking a risk.
Agreed. His argument is illogical and entirely unfair.
So? It's already been pointed out to you that it was deemed safe.
freakzilla149
Banned
Thirded... they were reasonable in thinking that this posed no real risk. No one would've considered this a possibility before yesterday. The Ukraine government has no motive and the "rebels" had no means.
They were 33k ft in the air, the fighting was so far below them it would've been over reaction to adjust the flightpath.
It is quite funny to see people blaming Russia for arming the rebels at the same time that their own country has been arming any armed group that could disrupt any countrie's government that is not fully aligned with their interest. And that is not happening from last month, or last year, or even the last decade.
No it isn't. The airplane was shot down, so it very obviously was a realized risk.
When you conduct a risk assessment, you compare both the severity and likelihood of the events and factor that into your decision making.
Say that there's a 1% chance one of your flights gets shot down, and it will cost your company $1 billion in lost revenue, plane replacement fees, etc. If changing the routes costs your company over $10 million in extra fuel costs, it would make financial sense to take the risk.
I would be furious with Malaysian airlines for taking that risk of human life. If you don't think they made a decision to fly through a dangerous area, you think they're incompetent businessmen.
freakzilla149
Banned
Yes it's quite funny how so many of us supported the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan by marching with banners that said "not in my name".
I think most people on this forum would agree that The United States has been notoriously awful when it comes to poking its nose in foreign policy where it doesn't belong. That doesn't exclude US citizens from having an opinion, however. I have no control over my governments ability to arm/disarm rebels/terror-groups spread across the middle-east. If I had my say, those responsible for arming said groups would be put on trial and thrown in jail. What happened today was awful and unforgivable. A huge passenger airliner was deliberately shot down resulting in the deaths of over 200 people. Its deplorable and those responsible should be punished accordingly
Kenshin001
Member
No it's not. What a shit poor analogy. Other airlines stopped flying over the area because they deemed it risky. A cargo plane was shot down at 21,000 feet only 3 days ago. A better analogy is you and your passengers are shot after you chose to drive through part of town which other drivers avoid because there is a gang war going on, 3 days after another car full of people was shot and killed driving through the same place.
milkham
Member
yes, so funny
You do realize that there were several other airlines taking the same flight path up to the time it was shot down, right? Including the plane of the India's Prime Minister which took the same path just an hour after it happened.
See my post above.
Sure. Shame on them also. They deserve just as much scorn.
Piss off with that rubbish.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
Scary. We sure live in a crazy world huh? : (
It's incidents like this I'm reminded exactly why aliens haven't bothered to make contact with us yet.
They keep being like, nope.
It wasn't until after the shoot down, that that corridor was deemed unsafe
here, 10 hours prior to MH17
Code:
V6158/14 NOTAMN
Q) URRV/QARLC/IV/NBO/E/000/530/4818N04023E095
A) URRV B) 1407170000 C) 1408312359 EST
E) DUE TO COMBAT ACTIONS ON THE TERRITORY OF THE UKRAINE NEAR THE
STATE BORDER WITH THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION AND THE FACTS OF FIRING
FROM THE TERRITORY OF THE UKRAINE TOWARDS THE TERRITORY OF RUSSIAN
FEDERATION, TO ENSURE INTL FLT SAFETY,
ATS RTE SEGMENTS CLSD AS FLW:
A100 MIMRA - ROSTOV-NA-DONU VOR/DME (RND) ,
B145 KANON - ASMIL,
G247 MIMRA - BAGAYEVSKIY NDB (BA),
A87 TAMAK - SARNA,
A102 PENEG - NALEM,
A225 GUKOL - ODETA,
A712 TAMAK - SAMBEK NDB (SB),
B493 FASAD - ROSTOV-NA-DONU VOR/DME (RND),
B947 TAMAK - ROSTOV-NA-DONU VOR/DME (RND),
G118 LATRI - BAGAYEVSKIY NDB (BA),
G534 MIMRA - TOROS,
G904 FASAD - SUTAG,
R114 BAGAYEVSKIY NDB (BA)-NALEM.
SFC - FL320the corridor was closed up to 32,000 (last line)
the flight (and other flights) was well above that restriction
This is what I hate about most people and this world. Most of us are so afraid to take responsibility for our mistakes and take corrective actions.
95% of people are eager to scapegoat, and continue lazy or dangerous behaviors. It will not serve you well in life, I guarantee you.
what a refreshing, new, and rarely visited in this thread, perspective.
Thanks for the shit drive by post. I know you won't be back to defend this.
People are unwilling to take responsibility, but people are also eager to scapegoat? This post doesn't seem to make a great deal of sense to me.
Seems like people are scapegoating the airline. Hindsight is 20/20.
The Dutch Slayer
Member
Netherlands Largest newspaper frontpage:
Sorry do not have a larger one at the moment.
Sorry do not have a larger one at the moment.
Damn those people who choose to go about their lives and not live in fear.
Escape Goat
Member
Are we supposed to know what OSCE is?
TheDrizzlerJ11
Member
That is the opposite of making light of the situation
Sure not all americans agree with it, and ofc the responsible for this should pay. I was just pointing out that.
But at the same time that, 3 children died ont he roof of their house in Gaza. Everybody knows who fired the missile and noone gives a damn shit about it. And yes, I know the difference about 3 and 298, but if you count all events of this month in Gaza you will get the same amount of inocent lives lost. Wierd how people are so selective in terms of where to put their anger on. Anyway, this discussion doesn't belong to this thread.
sorry.
Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe. Basically international observers that Russia is apart of but have not stopped them from holding OSCE members prisoner in Eastern Ukraine as "spies" before
Switch Back 9
a lot of my threads involve me fucking up somehow. Perhaps I'm a moron?
Forgive me if this has been asked already but I'm not reading through a 60 page thread.
Would the pilots have been aware that a missile was coming towards them or would they have been totally unaware until the missile made contact?
Maybe a tad morbid, I'm just curious if the pilots/passengers had time to think about what was going on before it happened or if it just all of a sudden hit the plane (from their perspective)
Would the pilots have been aware that a missile was coming towards them or would they have been totally unaware until the missile made contact?
Maybe a tad morbid, I'm just curious if the pilots/passengers had time to think about what was going on before it happened or if it just all of a sudden hit the plane (from their perspective)
TheDrizzlerJ11
Member
They were totally unaware.
TacticalFox88
Banned
Can we please stop with the drive-by WWIII posts?
As sad as this is, this incident will be blip on the radar six months from now.
As sad as this is, this incident will be blip on the radar six months from now.
All parties have responsibilities in this disaster except the victims. Hell, even the adult victims should be aware of the flight path if there's danger.
To ignore this would be to allow history to repeat. The security control preventing the loss of life failed. Do you really want airlines passing the buck to the safety agencies when your life is at risk?
To ignore this would be to allow history to repeat. The security control preventing the loss of life failed. Do you really want airlines passing the buck to the safety agencies when your life is at risk?
It would have been extremely sudden. Barely enough time to register what is wrong with the plane, let alone that you've been hit with a missile.
I've been thinking about this all day.The images I saw last night have deeply affected me, and I barely got any sleep...I really shouldn't have watched any of that early Russian live stream when I was trying to search for more news, because I can still see the dead bodies from the crash site in my mind. It doesn't help that the witnesses on-site even went through their passports for the camera, so a name and photo could be associated with the bodies. What a rotten thing to do...how horrible it must be for a friend or family member to hear about it that way first.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked