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Malaysia Airlines flight en route from Amsterdam shot down over Ukraine; no survivors
- Thread starter alfredofroylan
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Phantast2k
Member
About the intercepted calls being fake. I don't think so.
Clear audio & stereo: this is the 21st century and Ukraine is not some banana republic.
Here are some of the recorded conversations which were leaked by the Russian FSB:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJGqtsfDRB4 (stereo with both on the same side)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE7DujxLzsg (stereo with each person on either side) - Timoshenko has confirmed this one to be true (but cut in such a way as to put her out of context).
Duplicating mono audio channels into stereo is no rocket science: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMI24495CJk
Again 12st century and all that..
As for the pics (layout)- the SBU has been uploading conversations for a few months now. By now they must have a layout ready to go. Here is the first one as far as I can see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVDx-TqeWj4 (stereo, but with separate channels on either side)
Can't comment on how fast they uploaded relative to the crash, but I do hope the people took into consideration that Ukraine is in a different timezone relative to CET?
And they certainly didn't go: oh that plane got shot down, let's tap the phones. They must be monitoring them 24/7.
/can't sleep over all this shit
Clear audio & stereo: this is the 21st century and Ukraine is not some banana republic.
Here are some of the recorded conversations which were leaked by the Russian FSB:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJGqtsfDRB4 (stereo with both on the same side)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE7DujxLzsg (stereo with each person on either side) - Timoshenko has confirmed this one to be true (but cut in such a way as to put her out of context).
Duplicating mono audio channels into stereo is no rocket science: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMI24495CJk
Again 12st century and all that..
As for the pics (layout)- the SBU has been uploading conversations for a few months now. By now they must have a layout ready to go. Here is the first one as far as I can see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVDx-TqeWj4 (stereo, but with separate channels on either side)
Can't comment on how fast they uploaded relative to the crash, but I do hope the people took into consideration that Ukraine is in a different timezone relative to CET?
And they certainly didn't go: oh that plane got shot down, let's tap the phones. They must be monitoring them 24/7.
/can't sleep over all this shit
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
CNN "experts" are basically people who last did what they say they're an expert in 20 years ago and now talk about it.
There's plenty of evidence. What exactly are you looking for? Selfies of the guys doing it with a #shootindownMH17withmyboyz hashtag?
There's not a whole lot of that, and it usually gets called out immediately.
I dont see any Russian soldiers there taking selfies either. Are you agreeing with me?
I'm not seeing it get called out at all actually. Which is why I decided to do it myself.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
They are 100% responsible for what's happening over there. If Putin retracts his support today it would be over within hours.
Based on?
Well, aren't they to some extent?
Whether this was an accident or not, it is most likely the separatists are responsible, which in turn implicates Russia.
You're avoiding the question. What is it you don't agree with?
Who is calling for action? The opposite is really true, we can't do anything about it because of Russia and that pisses people off.
How? That's what I disagree with.
That's fine, but I would quote the posts instead of doing a blanket statement.
I just posted yesterday on this topic not 6 months ago. Show me how Russia is responsible for the shot down plane and Investigators not getting to it.
You're saying that you disagree with posters jumping to conclusions without stating which posters or conclusions.
How are we supposed to know what it is you disagree with?
not my style
Well let me tell you that the missile was shot from a rebel area and by a buk system, guess who supply them and who have the know how to teach...that's right the good'ol Russia
Because I already said it in a post you quoted
This person:
Phantast2k
Member
Well, is your grandma responsible for your birth? In a sense she is, not directly responsible, but without her you wouldn't exist (in the same way you do right now).
This is a good analogy for Russian involvement in this (and the whole conflict).
Without Russia's involvement, there would never ever be an armed struggle in Eastern Ukraine. It would never come to the covert war against Ukraine which is currently led by Russia. Dangerous AA weapons would not be in the hands to inadequate people / would not be used under inadequate circumstances...etc.
Alright.
I won't tell you to fuck off, but I'd like to know why you disagree with the idea that Russia is responsible to some degree.
Do you really need someone to retell the story of this conflict?
"Deal with Russia" could mean so many things from diplomacy to more sanctions all the way up to military conflict. But that last one has next to no chance of occurring.
Im reading some good discussion in this thread but I'm calling those who are proposing action against Russia to show evidence of them being responsible for the plane being shot down and hampering efforts of Investigators to gain access to what is a warzone. Sorry I cant answer everyone individually. Note I said russia and not pro russian militia or terrorists.
I wouldn't say no chance. There's always a slight chance.
However I do expect Russia to get economically screwed with sanctions if they continue.
Chittagong
Gold Member
It has been proven with satellite data that the missile came from the rebel controlled area. The rebels do not have their own missile launchers capable of hitting the plane, and likely not knowledge on how to fire one. So at the very minimum Russia supplied the missiles and training, and at worst had their own men on the helm. If that does not put some responsibility of this on Russia, I'm at loss.
Key words being next to no chance.
Wow really? Link please??
I don't think there is any evidence (available to the public), but it has been insinuated. Either way, a plane doesn't spread it's wreckage over a 10 mile area by itself.
If the separatists where not ever supported by Russia (lets say they do not originate from Russia), they wouldn't had ever been able to shoot the plane down. This whole mess would had been over a month after Crimea. However Russia is aiding them, supplying them with weapons.
English reading skills fail from me xD
Midnight Phoenix
Member
There is enough info in this thread. For example video with buk, that run away after shot. And puppets says that all buk, that they stole is in non operate state. There is audio, where puppets talking about Buk, that was gifted from russia and now they can shut down any Ukrainian airplane. There is thouthend information about Russian citizens, that killing Ukrainian solders and get paid. Their mass media lies and creating some crazy theory, about that this airplane looking like Putin first bort and that Ukraine want to kill him (and this is so highly prised and awarded Russia today). And my most beloved channel russia24 launched programs that state Ukraine is not exist and it was created by Stalin.
Two page ago I posted two video with translation, that makes audio more rigid.
About date of the audio. YouTube stamps date from servers, where it was handled. This is known issue.
Thanks, i'll read it trough.
This is pretty sad actually, the kremlin is reporting on the phone conversation between Dutch PM Rutte and Putin. Our PM made it very clear that the conversation he had with Putin was very "Intense", yet after reading this it seems to me Putin was not even questioned about anything.
http://eng.kremlin.ru/news/22700
It's not possible they aquired it from the Ukraine forces?
Common sense, the timelines and mounting physical evidence, including the airtight fact that the US detected and recorded the obviously Russian supplied missile being fired from rebel controlled Eastern Ukraine, and the audio recording that is now being discussed in an embarrassing conspiracy fanned by Russian nationalists.
But apart from that, nothing.
Midnight Phoenix
Member
They do, but they and Ukrainian government said that they nonfunctional. So there is only one wey, where they can get Buk and people that can operate with it. And audio conversation between puppets and some Russian hirank showed, that they got one not that long before tragedy.
They are supplied by Russia with Grad as well. Even more, Russia fires from Grad to the Ukraine territory.
No need to invade Russia or fight with it. Just isolate it, like it was in USSR. Make hard to obtain visa, no partnership, nothing. People will rebel after several several years inside country and problem will be solved. If some Russian guy start to prise Russia how strong it is, and how EU and USA on desline, I just told to throw his phone, PC or whatever is created outside russia. Most important - this work.
Fancy that IT and Science against Putin and his actions. There is professor, that was fired because he created article, that highlighted what's wrong with Putin actions.
That might actually be worse. First you kill a child, then you use his/her toy to blame it on others.
It's certainly possible. But how did they learn to use it? I doubt it came with a "BUKs for Dummies" book.
TrueGrime
Member
Who is responsible for it being a warzone in the first place?
maybe hes just play putins advocate?
edit;
no..no, that isn't whats happening.
yikes.
But it's more than possible some of the seperatists are former Russian or Soviet army and are capable of operating the machine
Who is responsible for the gaza strip being a warzone? If a plane is shot down over the region do we blame the British? The Americans if one is shot down over rebels supplied in Syria?
Maybe he IS Putin...
Nah, that's empty_vessel. ;-)
Perhaps, but I like the "BUKs for Dummies" theory. lol
Any source please ?
So 3 planes flew over this region in that area of time and only one was shot down? Interesting, looking forward the reasons.
Midnight Phoenix
Member
Too much possibilities. You need to be soldier (not 1 as there need to be 2 or 3), you need to be trained exactly on Buk. Ukraine has like 60 Buks or so, so this is near 200 people needed. As for ex-soviet solders. You can't remember stuff for that long. After such long time you need someone that will refresh your memory about how to search target, lock it and fire missile. Even more, as this is mobile AA you need to expand it and check all systems, before it can be used.
WarMacheen
Member
Where they got the BUK isn't as important as the fact that pro Russian rebels shot down a civilian aircraft with it. It's more, how you use it, than where you got it, at this point.
I agree except for the remembering part. If their training is anything like ours, they remember. I can still shoot down an aircraft, either using an Avenger or shoulder fired, and its been quite a while.
I agree except for the remembering part. If their training is anything like ours, they remember. I can still shoot down an aircraft, either using an Avenger or shoulder fired, and its been quite a while.
It's good to be a skeptic about things.
It's not good to pretend to be so skeptical that mountains of already supported evidence pointing in one clear, stark direction is casually glanced over as if the whole purpose is to try to find some ever more illogical explanation for why all that evidence might somehow just maybe not be real because reasons
Present the evidence then? Who fired the rocket and where it was supplied from please?
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
There was over 50 flights over this region on the same day as the shooting down of MH17, there was no NOTAM* advising avoidance of the area at the typical altitude of these international flights (There was however a NOTAM for lower level flight due to the risk from MANPADS)
A NOTAM is a "Notice to Airmen", a notice filed with an aviation authority to alert aircraft pilots of potential hazards along a flight route or at a location that could affect the safety of the flight.
Without a NOTAM the flight path would have likely been considered safe by the pilot & airline.
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