Ergh, seems I mistook peacekeepers with aidgivers. My bad.
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Malaysia Airlines flight en route from Amsterdam shot down over Ukraine; no survivors
- Thread starter alfredofroylan
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Ergh, seems I mistook peacekeepers with aidgivers. My bad.
seriously doubt that
SkeptiMism
Member
Ok then I apologize. Just wanted to make sure as bots aren't unheard of here either.
When I wrote "This isn't the place for this" im not going to continue with it.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
What the hell are you talking about? I'm pretty sure there is still arrests regarding IRA...
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
It's actually a pretty big moral dilemma isn't it?
Hindsight is 20/20 obviously, but we didn't intervene in Europe until Pearl Harbor, and right now North Korea is just as bad if not worse than Nazi Germany vis a vis genocide and crimes against humanity, yet we don't really do anything.
It's just the question of should America get involved.
I honestly don't know. It's crass, but If Russia took over Ukraine, how does that affect America? I don't think a lot of people are ready to get involved with something that doesn't directly threaten them immediately after Iraq.
Earlier in this thread someone said:
And I assume that was when it was being reported there were 23 Americans on the plane. So far its been confirmed there was 1.
I just don't get where our dog in that race is, or what this has to do with us at all.
The current situation is complex, yes, with lots of lingering sentiment, but it's nothing even close to resembling The Troubles.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
Yeah, but I doubt people "growed up" and "talk" like the poster said.
Fake.
np.
it's late, i had a hard week and more than one glass of wine.... but i'd prefer troops. this is my guts talking and thankfully i don't get a say, but let's empty the USS ohio's missile bays to blow all (pro-)russian anti-air & armored units into oblivion and black out the ukrainian skies around the crash site with the parachutes of SAS, KSK, Jagdkommando and all other EU special forces units you can think of.
call Put(a)in's bluff and end this shit before it turns into a chronic conflict like we have it in the kosovo, or palestine.
Wow, rude and lazy.
Google Good Friday and learn about IRA attempts at political legitimacy.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
That is also rude and lazy, you know. In any case, didn't try to offend but that to me the issue is more complicated than "grow old and started to talk".
Just to remind the Russian military doctrine calls for pre-emptive nuclear strike.
http://j.mp/1sARE1N
http://j.mp/1sARE1N
You're going to have to give us more than that. I'm not saying it's true (mainly because it seems implausible), but just rolling in and yelling "Fake" isn't proof.
But that's exactly what happened. Feel free to outline your own understanding of how the Good Friday Agreement came about though if you have any actual information to contribute.
More complicated than growing up and talking, less complicated than " suspended everyones civil rights, and rounded up anyone associated with the attacks. Badabing badaboom, done"
Good to know, these things are sometimes to hard to judge.
I'll translate if I can, usually twitter is the best news source right now and it has instant translate button that works great
K. Ill stick to the translate, these are entire articles im reading/researching. But if you vouch for the instant translate button, tis all good.
Does it mean they will sent troops to defend the border or something?
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
That's fair point you make.
I don't have that information. Was hoping someone could enlighten the rest of us.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Junior please.
There is no way the US, or any Euro country, would put assets, conventional or special, in the Ukraine at this time. Putin may relent. But if the separatists aren't disciplined enough to decide amongst themselves how crash investigators should get access to then I HIGHLY doubt anyone would want to aggrevate them more to a point they make another very stupid "mistake".
I agree with that. But next time, please say this the first time instead. Just calling it fake doesn't do anything productive to the conversation.
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
How are they going to make this mistake again if there are no flights in and around their airspace?
You think downing a passenger jet is the only thing they're capable of?
Scar Mortico
Banned
"Do you even know what triggered the last world war? An argument with Germany over how many telegraph poles they owed their war debt creditors. Telegraph poles!" - Joker from The Killing Joke
Countries have started wars over something much smaller than this. An event like this can definitely be the trigger for a potential war with Russia if things don't cool down from here with them.
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
What, are they going to launch ground attacks on civilian targets next? When they are losing territory and NATO is involved. That would be counterintuitive. It would sour opinion against them further and encourage more foreign intervention.
to be fair, it's not "just" a couple of dead americans. this conflict's history is a lot richer and you know that.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Lusitania
This implies that this is a disciplined organization with a thought out strategy. But nothing could be further from the truth. Especially when they've shown they're willing to fire on anything that moves before identifying it or considering the ramifications.
They also dont seem to care what the opinions of others may be. The rebel leaders seem only to care about one thing and that is influencing others at the barrel of a gun and sowing terror in the local population.
that is badish news, that means if the Russian invade their borders the NATO should provide military support, maybe involving troops or equipment.
edit: Oh well is not given yet, so means nothing until approved by NATO members
Yea it probably is, thats why i questioned if it was legit.
iceatcs
Junior Member
They aren't going to stop until reach Kiev.
ambientric
Banned
So in your parallel, the Quebec separtists were supported by American military and financial aid..no, didn't think so.
I am applying the rules of realpolitik, to envision the most peaceful/realistic outcome.
Policy/action driven by ideology will not work in this scenario (i would argue it never works).
We would all love to see Russia/Putin given a black eye and driven out of Eastern Ukraine. However this isnt Call of Duty, and it ain't happening.
I admire how stoic you all are. My thoughts and prayers go out to all who suffered from this.
KINGofCRA5H
Member
It's just that he left for Ukraine after saying to the press how furious he was about the fact that the separatists are removing bodies and belongings from the wreckage. He and the PM promised to not leave a stone unturned, yet everyone is surprised by his sudden return after he only arrived in Ukraine on Friday night
The reason for his travel was to "personally see whether the researches can do their job at the wreckage without being bothered or hindered", yet according to several sources he has not even visited the wreckage during his 1 day stay.
At this point European Officials probably need to meet on how to deal with Russia. Putin has total control over what's going on at that crash site. If people want to believe he doesn't that is fine but they are just showing their naivety.
When the OSCE had members held prisoner by the "Rebels" no one could get them to release them. Then Russia called them on an intercepted call and it was quite cordial. When can we come get them? when would be a good time for you? The "Rebels" were like well you know now isn't good because we are under attack and if you take them we may get swarmed. So Russia was like sure no problem we will wait a day or two.
freakzilla149
Banned
Yeah, at this point there is no more need for investigation or evidence gather as far as the overall political situation is concerned. He probably didn't have anything he could do there.
Europe will need to settle on what it intends to do about Russia. Obviously, Putin is too much a trouble maker to ignore.
This explains so much.
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I wonder which areas in the world will now be considered to be unsafe to fly. The obvious ones are Ukraine, Iraq and possibly Afghanistan, but I can see some areas of Libya or even other parts of Africa being affected if IATA takes this to the next step.
Guy is messing around with evidence in a crime scene in an attempt to generate a propaganda piece.
There is nothing honorable about that.
Nobody other than researchers should be allowed to touch the belongings or anything in the crash site. The same guy that holds the bear is seen in reports blurting out orders and sending foreign caretakers or journalists away.
If someone I know would have died in that crash and I saw a member of the group, that is being accussed by the whole world of shooting it down, holding an item of him or her I would be furious and devastated.
If someone I know would have died in that crash and I saw a member of the group, that is being accussed by the whole world of shooting it down, holding an item of him or her I would be furious and devastated.
GoldenEye 007
Member
You know what. So what if people warp the meaning of photos of the rebels touching evidence. So the fuck what. That's their problem.
Get the fuck out of there and let the investigators do their jobs. No fucking sympathy if they get portrayed incorrectly as a result of them fucking with things they shouldn't be.
Get the fuck out of there and let the investigators do their jobs. No fucking sympathy if they get portrayed incorrectly as a result of them fucking with things they shouldn't be.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
I haven't been able to keep up with the situation much today, but have there been any updates?
Not really but some GAF posters have decided Russia is guilty and should be invaded and are currently drawing up plans.
Well Russia is kind of guilty, maybe not directly but their hands are all over this.
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