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[Chariot]

What context? He picked up this doll just that photographers can make photo of him with a doll. You can see how he posing under claps of camera shutters.

Yes, but that could've been some neutral grieving. "We think at the poor children who died here." But that it is full blown propaganda filled with lies, that was something that didn't cross my mind.

I agree with all of you, and like I said I spoke rashly. However, a person who is grieving the loss of a child in a situation like this would not be rational. I was merely looking at it from the perspective of someone who may have seen this picture without the additional context.

Oh, I was wrong. Please read some of the reactions to my post on the bottom the last page. It was actually russian propaganda. So he is using the toy of the kid for some lies.

 

[Prez]

This is true for radio? Just curios, as using mobile phone, when it can be turned off by Ukraine is little stupid. They must have radio as well.

I know that FM radio has a frequency range of up to 15kHz, but AM (amplitude modulation) radio has a much more narrow range (up to 5kHz). I have no idea how audio is transmitted for communication purposes (I'd assume amplitude modulation because that has a greater distance range though a narrow audio frequency range). Someone would have to fill me in here.

 

[DanNLY]

Latest news: Russia moves brand new SU-34 fighter bombers to Rostov right next to Ukraine. Possibly to slow recent UA Army gains in Luhansk and Donetsk.

more 'DE-escalation', Russian-style:

http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=1808784

Pictures:
Exactly 6 months ago Ukraine threw off a corrupt brutal dictatorship

http://www.novayagazeta.ru/photos/61844.html

Info:

Since this beginning of the Ukrainian Anti Terror Operation the UA Air Force has lost 14 (!!) planes to Russian backed terrorists and Russian supplied weapons

http://inforesist.org/za-vremya-ato-terroristy-sbili-14-edinic-aviacionnoj-texniki/

In Germany, talks started about sending UN peacekeepers to Ukraine http://www.

 

[Midnight Phoenix]

I know that FM radio has a frequency range of up to 15kHz, but AM radio has a much more narrow range. I have no idea how audio is transmitted for communication purposes (I'd assume lower frequency amplitude because that has a longer distance range but a narrow audio frequency range). Someone would have to fill me in here.

Still, if audio is faked it will be uncovered. I am too not that much in to this audio, until some one from side, that not involved into this, will say that it's legit. I can trust only in full video, without "journalism" preparation, but audio is too tricky.

http://www.stopfake.org/en/lies-spa...-ukrainian-planes-involved-in-boeing-tragedy/

My friend from Russia tried to make me believe in that Spanish guy, but I knew from beginning that this is fake.

 

[CrunchyB]

2 experts on CNN saying the audio by Ukraine might be fake

Us intelligence expert: audio came in too fast and too conveniently for such a big event, not even the us intelligence is this fast and efficient

Audio expert: the Audio is too clear and they are in stereo which can only happen when you capture the audio at the telephone company itself on the line connecting both the calls , he said nsa fbi and CIA dont have calls this clear in his 40 years of audio recordings


How could ukraine make this so fast then ?

The audio leak arrived within hours of the attack, I really doubt Ukraine was able to concoct a convincing forgery that fast. It's only possible if they planned this whole thing form the start, but that's tinfoil-hat crazy.

Also, the NSA is neither fast nor efficient and the "stereo" argument is laughable.

On a semi-related note, I've been watching CNN for the first time since the Iraq invasion and HOLY SHIT has the quality gone down. The female anchors in particular are way out of their depth.

 

[captainnapalm]

Not to mention the Occam's razor in play here.

I still think it is most likely that the separatists shot it down, mistaking it for a military aircraft. But a thorough, independent investigation (which sadly we won't get) would still be welcome.

 

[Dominican Power]

Even animals were on the plane.

 

[raphier]

The audio leak arrived within hours of the attack, I really doubt Ukraine was able to concoct a convincing forgery that fast. It's only possible if they planned this whole thing form the start, but that's tinfoil-hat crazy.

Also, the NSA is neither fast nor efficient and the "stereo" argument is laughable.

On a semi-related note, I've been watching CNN for the first time since the Iraq invasion and HOLY SHIT has the quality gone down. The female anchors in particular are way out of their depth.

2 hours is enough to make couple 5 minute skits. Some random guys doing it spontaneously, it's possible. Hell, professional writers will write a story for you on the spot.

 

[DanNLY]

Photo of the SA-11 earlier this week in Luhansk

OSCE investigator clearly disgusted at Russia terrorists treatment of MH17 wreck and bodies

Video of the SA11 being moved back to Russia, supposedly one of 3(!!) that were given over to the terrorists
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jDMoXkME3o&feature=youtu.be

 

[Midnight Phoenix]

I still think it is most likely that the separatists shot it down, mistaking it for a military aircraft. But a thorough, independent investigation (which sadly we won't get) would still be welcome.

Ukraine making all, that it was clear for every country, especially for one that got sadly lost of their citizens. But it much more complicated, as there is second player.

Photo of the SA-11 earlier this week in Luhansk

OSCE investigator clearly disgusted at Russia terrorists treatment of MH17 wreck and bodies

There is official report from OSCE about their work. It states that PP (putin puppets) was drink and aggressive.

 

[commedieu]

Exactly how I feel right now with this entire situation. It is despicable.

 

[ksan]

I still think it is most likely that the separatists shot it down, mistaking it for a military aircraft. But a thorough, independent investigation (which sadly we won't get) would still be welcome.

I would argue that's nearly as good evidence for who's responsible as an independent investigation.

 

[raindoc]

In Germany, talks started about sending UN peacekeepers to Ukraine http://www.

they'd need russia's approval.

 

[Whitechocolatekrispies]

Has this been posted?

US military have tracked the source of the missile through satellites!

How US satellites pinpointed source of missile that shot down airliner

President Barack Obama today said without hesitation that the missile that shot down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was launched from within territory controlled by pro-Russian separatists in Eastern Ukraine. While he didn’t go into the sources the US used to pinpoint the launch, early reports say that US intelligence had identified the infrared signature of a missile launch just before contact with the airliner was lost.

That information likely came from one of a network of satellites operated by the Air Force and the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO), the US intelligence community’s spy satellite operations agency. Using highly sensitive infrared sensors and other electronic intelligence gathering sensors, these satellites can detect a variety of ground-based missile systems, as well as some aircraft, by their infrared signature. They also carry sensitive electronic intelligence sensors that can detect radar signals associated with anti-aircraft missile systems like the Buk launcher that has been widely pointed to as the culprit in the MH17 downing.

The latest of these satellite systems is the Space Based Infrared System (SBIRS), the successor to the long-running and euphemistically named “Defense Support Program” (DSP) satellite system. The DSP started in the late 1960s and continued in various forms through the last decade. A portion of the DSP constellation of satellites continues to function today and has been considered for use in tracking forest fires and potentially forecasting impending volcanic eruptions.

So much respect for US military technology right now.

 

[LNBL]

they'd need russia's approval.

It seem they need the present boss of the seperatists to get permission. Dutch news reported that even the present leaders don't always agree with each other and they argue openly.

 

[commedieu]

Has this been posted?

US military have tracked the source of the missile through satellites!

How US satellites pinpointed source of missile that shot down airliner



So much respect for US military technology right now.

well, we sure as fuck pay enough money for it. At the cost of our healthcare/life expectancy/education.

 

[raindoc]

Even animals were on the plane.

Even?

One the world's leading HIV-specialists was on the plane. Joep Lange was not only one of the inventors of modern anti-retroviral combination therapy, but also a frontline activist when it came to deliver not only coca-cola and wifi to the poorest of the poor, but life-saving drugs.

That guy probably saved millions from a cruel and early death and i-cannot-estimate-how-many might die because of his demise.

 

[brian577]

well, we sure as fuck pay enough money for it. At the cost of our healthcare/life expectancy/education.

This is neither the time or place to be making such statements. Have a little respect for the dead.

 

[Stinkles]

well, we sure as fuck pay enough money for it. At the cost of our healthcare/life expectancy/education.

But it guarantees our freedom from the tyranny of free education and socialized medicine.

 

[AstroNut325]

Has this been posted?

US military have tracked the source of the missile through satellites!

How US satellites pinpointed source of missile that shot down airliner



So much respect for US military technology right now.

This is meme worthy and nightmare fuel:

 

[Jenov]

Has this been posted?

US military have tracked the source of the missile through satellites!

How US satellites pinpointed source of missile that shot down airliner



So much respect for US military technology right now.

'MURICAAAA!

in the good sense

 

[Tamanon]

well, we sure as fuck pay enough money for it. At the cost of our healthcare/life expectancy/education.

Eh, the military budget has never had any impact on other government spending. It's treated as its own thing, not even involved in budget talks.

 

[CrunchyB]

2 hours is enough to make couple 5 minute skits. Some random guys doing it spontaneously, it's possible. Hell, professional writers will write a story for you on the spot.

5 minutes is enough to make a 5 minute skit, doesn't mean it's likely.

Assuming Ukrainian shenanigans:

1. First they need to make sure it's a legit crash they can blame on the separatists.
2. They quickly write a script that references facts like location, date, etc.
3. They feed this script to the Russian speaking actors they had on stand-by.
4. They record a very convincing skit. I don't speak Russian, but everybody thinks the dialogue of itself is convincing.
5. They upload it to youtube.
6. profit?

Sure, it's possible to do this in 2 hours, but it's highly unlikely IMO.

In any case, it's obviously a lot more work than Ukrainian intelligence officers simply publishing an incendiary recording a few hours after the fact.

 

[Midnight Phoenix]

2 hours is enough to make couple 5 minute skits. Some random guys doing it spontaneously, it's possible. Hell, professional writers will write a story for you on the spot.

In audio one of action person stated, that Russian TV said, that was shutted AN-26. And realy, this is true. There is a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuX6rEOjyqA#t=18

I want to acquaint you about last and most important events in Russia and world.
Militias saying that they was able to take down one more transport airplane of Ukrainian air forces.
It happened over city Torez of DNR. Everything happened at 5pm (17.00 of evening) Moscow time, over city flying AN-26 and suddenly rocket collided with airplane. After this goes explosion and airplane start to fall. There was black smoke.
An-26 fall aside from living homes near mine. I want to add that Torez lokated near Snejnoe and mound Samoromogila (I cant understand how she called it lol), that territory is under DNR control.

Like in audio about TV episode and crushed zone is the same, so it is even harder to fake this audio.

 

[Stinkles]

This is meme worthy and nightmare fuel:

Lol is that real? Semper Vigilans is also the Office of Naval Intelligence motto.

 

[raindoc]

It seem they need the present boss of the seperatists to get permission. Dutch news reported that even the present leaders don't always agree with each other and they argue openly.

please correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought to send peacekeepers the UN only needs approval of the security council, not the "nation in distress"? that would make even less sense.

 

[Midnight Phoenix]

Has this been posted?

US military have tracked the source of the missile through satellites!

How US satellites pinpointed source of missile that shot down airliner



So much respect for US military technology right now.

Found this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3h9EQ0YxgU#t=35

Translation:

Beautifully shot down, yes?
This is hunta air plain shut down.
It is fly so beautifully.
Blya smoke going.
Looks like plain fly and it was shut from RPG from somewhere.
And he beautifully came down.
Good job DNR.

That audio from kid confirms, that rocket was launched from the ground.

 

[Whitechocolatekrispies]

well, we sure as fuck pay enough money for it. At the cost of our healthcare/life expectancy/education.

You do realise this money doesn't leave the country right?

The US's massive defence budget funds US companies and US workers. The magnitude of the money also allows for really advanced R&D that otherwise wouldn't be financially viable to pursue.

As a result of this the following technology would not exist:

Computers (computing technology driven by military simulation needs)
Internet (need to network military commands)
GPS (track military movement)
Hard-drives (piezo electric crystal (the most important component of a hard-drive allowing for minute accurate movements) development was spearhead by the need for ultra sensitive sonar stations to detect Russian subs)
Aircraft technology (need for faster more powerful fighter jets leads to massive advancements in civilian jet liner technology)
Rockets and Space exploration (satellite technology and ICBM drove the space race)
etc etc

You could literally go on for days the amount of technology you take for granted every day which only came to fruition because of the vast almost wasteful military funding.

Please don't be under any impression all the money the US spends on its military is wasted. Sure there is waste, but when you look at such marvels as modern computing, space exploration and the internet ... I'd say it's worth it 10x over.

 

[Midnight Phoenix]

well, we sure as fuck pay enough money for it. At the cost of our healthcare/life expectancy/education.

At least you have one. After you visit Ukrainian or Russian hospitals, you understand.

 

[commedieu]

Eh, the military budget has never had any impact on other government spending. It's treated as its own thing, not even involved in budget talks.

Trillions of dollars spent on military equipment that could be cut and spent on other nation projects isn't some asinine concept. Its what other nations do perfectly fine. Please don't pretend that money some how marked for military is impossible to spend on healthcare. The budgets are bloated, and there is as much waste as there are other budgets.

Even when the military says they need X amount of dollars, congress gives them more.

This isn't the place for this, as you're aware of the problem in the USA. We spend too much money on the military, while the rest of the nation is broken.

You understand the point. Not the literal politics that keeps the nation broke, but the fact that taxes pay for this.

 

[Midnight Phoenix]

Trillions of dollars spent on military equipment that could be cut and spent on other nation projects isn't some asinine concept. Its what other nations do perfectly fine. Please don't pretend that money some how marked for military is impossible to spend on healthcare. The budgets are bloated, and there is as much waste as there are other budgets.

Even when the military says they need X amount of dollars, congress gives them more.

This isn't the place for this, as you're aware of the problem in the USA. We spend too much money on the military, while the rest of the nation is broken.

You understand the point. Not the literal politics that keeps the nation broke, but the fact that taxes pay for this.

Yes, but on positive side. Russia will not try and back Alaska.

 

[DanNLY]

Wow some cool stuff coming out of ukraine

Mad max stuff

https://twitter.com/tombreadley/status/490606286212718594

 

[brian577]

Wow some cool stuff coming out of ukraine

Mad max stuff

https://twitter.com/tombreadley/status/490606286212718594

Yeah, all those people killing each other. Totally awesome.

 

[FStop7]

In Germany, talks started about sending UN peacekeepers to Ukraine http://www.

Russia is on the UNSC. They will veto it every time. Never gonna happen.

 

[SkeptiMism]

Wow some cool stuff coming out of ukraine

Mad max stuff

https://twitter.com/tombreadley/status/490606286212718594

Ok, I have to ask. Are you a real person or are you some kind of bot?

Seeing that was your 3rd post and your first post in the forum was just a while ago in this thread. Your posts are quite weird also.

 

[LNBL]

please correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought to send peacekeepers the UN only needs approval of the security council, not the "nation in distress"? that would make even less sense.

I know, that is the logical order. But the seperatist have control over this area :/ You can read my previous post in this thread with picture of a general or something giving orders to journalists etc.

On a side note. I don't know how legit this story is, but I thought I would share anyways.

http://www.spitsnieuws.nl/archives/buitenland/2014/07/nederland-en-vs-bereiden-invasie-voor

Dutch news article which states that according to sources in Poland, the USA and The Netherlands are preparing an invasion of the area where the airplane crashed. According to the source, Dutch and American military are preparing in Warschau, Poland.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Seems like Germany is doing every gesture required to make it look like they're doing something but really just buying time until people forget about this.

 

[CrunchyB]

Even?

One the world's leading HIV-specialists was on the plane. Joep Lange was not only one of the inventors of modern anti-retroviral combination therapy, but also a frontline activist when it came to deliver not only coca-cola and wifi to the poorest of the poor, but life-saving drugs.

That guy probably saved millions from a cruel and early death and i-cannot-estimate-how-many will die because of his demise.

Yes, sadly he's only a footnote in all of this, but this guy is a hero. Guys, read his Wikipedia article at the very least.

In 2003, Lange completed a study on the offspring of HIV-positive volunteer mothers in Rwanda and Uganda. He found that a baby's chance of contracting HIV falls to less than 1% if they receive anti-retroviral drugs while being nursed.

Putin lives and Joep Lange is dead. Fuck this planet.

 

[Guy.brush]

This is meme worthy and nightmare fuel:

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.
Office is headed by Admiral Tolwyn btw.

 

[raindoc]

I know, that is the logical order. But the seperatist have control over this area :/ You can read my previous post in this thread with picture of a general or something giving orders to journalists etc.

On a side note. I don't know how legit this story is, but I thought I would share anyways.

http://www.spitsnieuws.nl/archives/buitenland/2014/07/nederland-en-vs-bereiden-invasie-voor

Dutch news article which states that according to sources in Poland, the USA and The Netherlands are preparing an invasion of the area where the airplane crashed. According to the source, Dutch and American military are preparing in Warschau, Poland.

i still don't see how that matters. my understanding is that if the security council decides to "go in there" they go in there. to make sure motherfuckers like that guy don't get a say.

 

[commedieu]

Yes, but on positive side. Russia will not try and back Alaska.

There is that, thank god/jesus/america.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

Lol is that real? Semper Vigilans is also the Office of Naval Intelligence motto.

Its better than if it were "Strength through Paranoia". Although not by much.

Is it just me, or is the fact they had satellites over that area recording being revealed a little weird? Like "Good thing we were spying on you, now we know how it happened"?

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Its better than if it were "Strength through Paranoia". Although not by much.

Is it just me, or is the fact they had satellites over that area recording being revealed a little weird? Like "Good thing we were spying on you, now we know how it happened"?

Would you rather have no satellites there so if Russia prepares a massive ground invasion no one would know?

 

[LNBL]

i still don't see how that matters. my understanding is that if the security council decides to "go in there" they go in there. to make sure motherfuckers like that guy don't get a say.

I understand mate, the problem is. If you are a reporter or aid giver and you see guys like this standing there:

It would not be wise to just ignore them. On the other hand i'm curious to see what the security forces will do, as you said.

 

[raindoc]

I understand mate, the problem is. If you are a reporter or aid giver and you see guys like this standing there:

It would not be wise to just ignore them. On the other hand i'm curious to see what the security forces will do, as you said.

huh? i thought we were talking about sending in troops with a UN-mandate, not reporters. peacekeepers.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Trillions of dollars spent on military equipment that could be cut and spent on other nation projects isn't some asinine concept. Its what other nations do perfectly fine. Please don't pretend that money some how marked for military is impossible to spend on healthcare. The budgets are bloated, and there is as much waste as there are other budgets.

Even when the military says they need X amount of dollars, congress gives them more.

This isn't the place for this, as you're aware of the problem in the USA. We spend too much money on the military, while the rest of the nation is broken.

You understand the point. Not the literal politics that keeps the nation broke, but the fact that taxes pay for this.

You know this is not the thread for this stuff, right?

 

[Dr.Acula]

Agreed. Despite the tragic loss of life, this was a mistake, equivalent to manslaughter.

The understandable initial response is to want to pull the trigger, punish those responsible.

Instead, the best outcome will be, Russia to cut off supplies/support to the separatists. The Ukranian government to call a ceasefire and negotiate a truce with the separatists. An eventual federalization of the eastern ukranian provinces.

Further escalation of the conflict, supplying of military equipment by the US to the Ukranian government, backing Putin into a corner, will only risk a proxy war.

This argument makes no sense. This is a terrorist organisation blasting planes out of the sky. It wasn't "okay" when they were shooting down Ukrainian military. In many ways, that's even worse.

When radical Quebec separatists were setting off bombs, kidnapping politicians, and committing murder, Canada didn't say "oh, what's their side, maybe we should ask the international community to help, they have feelings too." Canada declared Quebec a warzone, suspended everyones civil rights, and rounded up anyone associated with the attacks. Badabing badaboom, done.

America would do the same, so would the UK.

Ukraine has every right to enforce the rule of law within Ukraine.

This isn't Euromaidan with people standing in a square protesting. These are people in masks with tanks and missiles.

We can all agree that people have the right to organise and protest and effect change, but that ends when you FUCKING BLOW UP AN INTERNATIONAL FLIGHT AT 33000 FEET USING MILITARY GRADE SURFACE TO AIR MISSILES.

 

[Goodlife]

Would you rather have no satellites there so if Russia prepares a massive ground invasion no one would know?

Facebook / Twitter would probably know about it before the American satellites did

 

[Goodlife]

This argument makes no sense. This is a terrorist organisation blasting planes out of the sky. It wasn't "okay" when they were shooting down Ukrainian military. In many ways, that's even worse.

When radical Quebec separatists were setting off bombs, kidnapping politicians, and committing murder, Canada didn't say "oh, what's their side, maybe we should ask the international community to help, they have feelings too." Canada declared Quebec a warzone, suspended everyones civil rights, and rounded up anyone associated with the attacks. Badabing badaboom, done.

America would do the same, so would the UK.

Ukraine has every right to enforce the rule of law within Ukraine.

This isn't Euromaidan with people standing in a square protesting. These are people in masks with tanks and missiles.

We can all agree that people have the right to organise and protest and effect change, but that ends when you FUCKING BLOW UP AN INTERNATIONAL FLIGHT AT 33000 FEET USING MILITARY GRADE SURFACE TO AIR MISSILES.

We tried that for years in the UK with the IRA etc, thought the best way to deal with them was to fight back. We were bigger, better equipped, stronger etc, will be easy to crush them.

Decades later, hundreds of pointless deaths we all grew up a bit and got everyone round a table to talk.
The ones who were incharge of a lot of the bombings are now important politicians.

 

[DanNLY]

Ok, I have to ask. Are you a real person or are you some kind of bot?

Seeing that was your 3rd post and your first post in the forum was just a while ago in this thread. Your posts are quite weird also.

I'm a Russian American that has been a long time neogaf lurker decided to join recently I have been reading neogaf since 2005? Can't even remember

My grandfather was from Ukraine so I think the current situation is very grave, the worst possible situation has occurred in Russia and Ukraine is the last place to stop Putin before he takes over the old soviet countries to establish his corrupt influence

Putin is the new hitler he is ruthless and will go far mark my words! He needs to be stopped.

Imagine that you are in 1939 right now and hitler is making his moves, what do you do?