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[Daria]

Don't jump to terrorism, when there have been many more catastrophic planes crashes unrelated to terrorism.

Exactly. There is really no proof that shows this is even somewhat related to terrorism. The only reason terrorism is being brought up is because of the times we live in.

This was one of the tragedies that stuck out the most to me, when I went on my airline disaster reading binge a few months ago. China Airlines 611 came apart in midair and killed 200+ passengers because of a shoddy repair on a portion of the fuselage conducted over twenty years before the fatal accident occurred. It's mind-boggling to think of how many hours, how many flights and how many people flew that aircraft before that one little problem because a colossal, life-ending disaster.

If they would've just followed the Boeing approved method of repair on it that probably would've never happened. I'm also not sure who repaired the 777 but if it was Boeing, I don't think metal fatigue would be the cause of this one.

 

[SeaOfMadness]

Hate to say it, but there's no way a 777 is going to disintegrate that quickly (if that's indeed what happened) without warning unless it was shot down or blown up from the inside. It'll be a while before the FDR is recovered (if ever).

 

[HUELEN10]

The OP Talks about a crash "if it is confirmed". Does this mean we still technically don't know if it even landed? News is everywhere on this.

 

[FTF]

Hate to say it, but there's no way a 777 is going to disintegrate that quickly (if that's indeed what happened) without warning unless it was shot down or blown up from the inside. It'll be a while before the FDR is recovered (if ever).

I'm sorry, but do you actually know what the you're talking about here?

 

[The_Endless]

The OP Talks about a crash "if it is confirmed". Does this mean we still technically don't know if it even landed? News is everywhere on this.

It only had fuel enough for 7 hours onboard. It's been more than 24 hours now. It hasn't landed anywhere, and last known coordinates put it in the middle of the Gulf of Thailand. The plane is down....

 

[Somnid]

I can't even fathom losing contact with something like that. Malaysia Airlines probably has some deep problems if it resulted in something that catastrophic. Even if it smashed into a mountain there would be transmissions of it.

 

[HUELEN10]

It only had fuel enough for 7 hours onboard. It's been more than 24 hours now. It hasn't landed anywhere, and last known coordinates put it in the middle of the Gulf of Thailand. The plane is down....

When contact was lost, was there any land within a 7-hour travel radius around them? If so, couldn't the plane have landed? I'm starting to look at news, but this detail isn't being touched upon. I mean, wouldn't it be technically possible?

 

[daninthemix]

When contact was lost, was there any land within a 7-hour travel radius around them? If so, couldn't the plane have landed? I'm starting to look at news, but this detail isn't being touched upon. I mean, wouldn't it be technically possible?

A 777 can't 'land' anywhere except a runway, which would have been reported.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

They are speaking vaguely to consider the families. You need confirmation and if it's down, there's no way to confirm until you identify the wreckage. Some will still be in denial until they know for sure. It's lives we are talking about.

 

[The_Endless]

When contact was lost, was there any land within a 7-hour travel radius around them? If so, couldn't the plane have landed? I'm starting to look at news, but this detail isn't being touched upon. I mean, wouldn't it be technically possible?

Plane was about an hour away from land, closest being southern Vietnam. If the plane has landed, it would have been reported to local aviation authorities for landing clearance at the nearest runway (in the case of a controlled landing) or some debris/smoke would be visible in the case of a ground crash.

In either case, there would have been time for the pilot to send a distress signal that the plane was experiencing problems. That there was a sudden loss of communication and no distress signal reported points to a sudden problem that took the plane down within minutes.

 

[Charcoal]

When contact was lost, was there any land within a 7-hour travel radius around them? If so, couldn't the plane have landed? I'm starting to look at news, but this detail isn't being touched upon. I mean, wouldn't it be technically possible?

The plane went down only 2 hours after take off, right off the coast of Vietnam.

 

[Daria]

When contact was lost, was there any land within a 7-hour travel radius around them? If so, couldn't the plane have landed? I'm starting to look at news, but this detail isn't being touched upon. I mean, wouldn't it be technically possible?

Vietnamese said they did not enter their air field nor did they enter anyone else. The last contact they had was over water and that's most likely where they ended up.

 

[Cow Mengde]

So there's still no sign of wreckage, huh? Could they have landed in the water like the landing in the Hudson here in NYC a few years ago?

 

[Crazymoogle]

So there's still no sign of wreckage, huh? Could they have landed in the water like the landing in the Hudson here in NYC a few years ago?

Ocean water is generally pretty unforgiving, so it's unlikely. And if they had managed some landing there's a good chance some communication would have already happened.

 

[aeroslash]

Jesus Christ that sounds fucking horryfiying.
For any of the passengers who might've died, I hope they weren't blown out while it was in mid air. That's one of the scariest things imaginable.

As with the passports, it can go either ways honestly. Could've been two people who bought it from the black market and just wanted to go home, or could've been terrorists. Hoping for the former.

Don't worry...the useful time of consciousness at that altitude is something like 12-15"

 

[Daria]

So there's still no sign of wreckage, huh? Could they have landed in the water like the landing in the Hudson here in NYC a few years ago?

That is most likely where they landed but that's still a big area they need to search. The waters in that area are <100ft deep IIRC but the pieces wouldn't float easily or may not even be in close proximity of the area since the rate of descend and the impact in the water would cause the plane to crumble to pieces.

 

[Oersted]

The OP Talks about a crash "if it is confirmed". Does this mean we still technically don't know if it even landed? News is everywhere on this.

Thanks for mentioning that. I deleted that part because it is too unclear. Won't link Reuters anymore.

 

[Phoenix]

I can't even fathom losing contact with something like that. Malaysia Airlines probably has some deep problems if it resulted in something that catastrophic. Even if it smashed into a mountain there would be transmissions of it.

Not necessarily. MA is reported to be an airline with a good safety record, and as was the case with the Air France flight - if something suddenly happens, there is little that can be done. It is over pretty quickly. If its like Air France, they may have been trying to recover from a situation and weren't entirely sure that they were in some form of terminal decent until it was too late, or they could have had some massive structural failure. None of this means that the the airline had a deep problem. As sad as it is, while air travel is extremely safe - sometimes things just go catastrophically wrong. Lets just hope that they can find the flight recorder so we can figure out what it was and learn from it.

 

[aeroslash]

Not necessarily. MA is reported to be an airline with a good safety record, and as was the case with the Air France flight - if something suddenly happens, there is little that can be done. It is over pretty quickly. If its like Air France, they may have been trying to recover from a situation and weren't entirely sure that they were in some form of terminal decent until it was too late, or they could have had some massive structural failure. None of this means that the the airline had a deep problem. As sad as it is, while air travel is extremely safe - sometimes things just go catastrophically wrong. Lets just hope that they can find the flight recorder so we can figure out what it was and learn from it.

Exactly, that's the important thing after the accident. Airbus for instace developed a different indicator and some memory items procedures after the AF accident.

 

[MrJames]

Some more info from a recent Q&A.

EDIT: Not official info. Was unable to confirm its source.

 

[mightynine]

Some more info from a recent Q&A.

Where the hell did this come from? The language used sounds like they really want this to be terrorism.

 

[Mononoke]

Some more info from a recent Q&A.

Where was this Q&A? Doesn't sound...official.

 

[Nevasleep]

Where is that Q&A from?

Also a pilot's job in an emergency is to aviate, navigate, communicate.

 

[Phoenix]

Where the hell did this come from? The language used sounds like they really want this to be terrorism.

Seems there is more information that they have that isn't being shared yet. It would be odd for the hijackers to be able to take over the plane without the pilots being able to communicate that they were under attack - unless one of the pilots was involved in the incident. But I agree that they seem to be pushing everyone in a particular direction.

 

[aeroslash]

Some more info from a recent Q&A.

Some things...for an aircraft to go down from 35000 feet to sea level in 5 minuts, it's a vertical speed of 7000ft/min. That's nowhere near realistic if the plane was able to fly even a little bit.

And regarding the Q&A. Nowadays a mid-air collision is extremely difficult to happen. Even more in a 777. They have Traffic collision avoidance systems in every aircraft. Heck, i have friends, who have avoid drones overflying Afghanistan. I can't imagine a militar aircraft not having this system. And Even if the other aircraft did not have it, the 777 should have been able to avoid it for itself. I don't know the source but i don't trust it...

 

[Trouble]

Some more info from a recent Q&A.

That is chock full of a bunch of speculation and really light on any factual data. It practically declares this was a terrorist event and dismisses the likelyhood of a mechanical failure. Right now we know next to nothing, dismissing a catastrophic mechanical failure outright is silly.

 

[Mononoke]

Some things...for an aircraft to go down from 35000 feet to sea level in 5 minuts, it's a vertical speed of 7000ft/min. That's nowhere near realistic if the plane was able to fly even a little bit.

And regarding the Q&A. Nowadays a mid-air collision is extremely difficult to happen. Even more in a 777. They have Traffic collision avoidance systems in every aircraft. Heck, i have friends, who have avoid drones overflying Afghanistan. I can't imagine a militar aircraft not having this system. And Even if the other aircraft did not have it, the 777 should have been able to avoid it for itself. I don't know the source but i don't trust it...

Sounds to me, like a talking head sizing up the incident, and not anything official. The only thing I find interesting about this, is that if it was a bombing or highjacking, that the airline would leave it up to government officials. I don't know if that is true, or if it's something they could keep from the media.

But interesting. Anyways, this is something that any average joe could speculate too. So. *shrugs*

 

[Daria]

Lol that Q&A can't be official. Terrorism or a pilot suicide are more likely than a malfunction? Ok.

And the Navy confirms the plane crashed into the sea? Where else has that been confirmed? It hasn't.

 

[Daft_Cat]

Some more info from a recent Q&A.

Lol. Is the source reddit or something?

Just can't picture someone with any sort of expertise or authority writing this.

 

[Sectorseven]

Assuming it was deliberate, blowing it up or crashing it into the ocean seems like an odd choice, no?

 

[Nevasleep]

When was the last time a terrorist attack caused a plane to catastrophically fail?
Also nobody has yet claimed responsibility, and the route is Malaysia to China.

I'd put my money on it being mechanical or maybe pilot error, but we won't know until the investigation.

 

[adamsappel]

For any of the passengers who might've died, I hope they weren't blown out while it was in mid air. That's one of the scariest things imaginable.

One of my favorite poems, Falling, by James Dickey: http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/171431

 

[Mononoke]

There is no way the airline would officially answer questions that way. They wouldn't even speculate about things. So yeah, obviously it's not official (or at least coming from the Airline).

 

[MrJames]

I believe there was a press conference by whoever has jurisdiction. Malaysian govt. perhaps. The pic came from airliners.net. I'll delete it since does sound a bit unofficial.

Some updates.

http://my.news.yahoo.com/mas-aircraft-goes-missing--says-airline-023820132.html

 

[Trouble]

I believe there was a press conference by whoever has jurisdiction. Malaysian govt. perhaps. The pic came from airliners.net. I'll delete it since does sound a bit unofficial.

Some updates.

http://my.news.yahoo.com/mas-aircraft-goes-missing--says-airline-023820132.html

Ah, airliners.net, the least knowledgeable aviation website on the internet. Now it makes sense.

Actual commercial and military pilots generally avoid airliners.net forums like the plague, because it's full of casuals.

 

[Daria]

I believe there was a press conference by whoever has jurisdiction. Malaysian govt. perhaps. The pic came from airliners.net. I'll delete it since does sound a bit unofficial.

Some updates.

http://my.news.yahoo.com/mas-aircraft-goes-missing--says-airline-023820132.html

Do you have a link to the source of the press conference?

 

[Daria]

Found this from another airline pilot forum. Can someone confirm the times? I do know that the plane went dark just before the ATC handover though.

What's eating away at me is that ATC and the company stated that they lost contact with the A/C 2 hours into the flight, but the suspected area is 400 miles from Kuala Lumpur??? That would be 45 minutes into the flight (specially with the prevailing winds that evening) in a 4:50 planned flight, 2 hours would put them NE of the coast of Vietnam, just about being handover to Hong Kong??????

 

[aerts1js]

It's not odd that there were people on the plane that were using stolen European passports?

edit: I see that there has been some discussion in the previous pages. I still find it suspect.

 

[aeroslash]

Found this from another airline pilot forum. Can someone confirm the times? I do know that the plane went dark just before the ATC handover though.

Yeah, that suprised me too. And to add to this discussion, the chief of flightradar24.com (a website to track the flights) said they lost sign of the aircraft one hour before the time given by the airline..which would give that 400NM more or less. So maybe the problem is that they are searching in the wrong place.

 

[Cru]

When was the last time a terrorist attack caused a plane to catastrophically fail?
Also nobody has yet claimed responsibility, and the route is Malaysia to China.

I'd put my money on it being mechanical or maybe pilot error, but we won't know until the investigation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Russian_aircraft_bombings

 

[The_Endless]

Found this from another airline pilot forum. Can someone confirm the times? I do know that the plane went dark just before the ATC handover though.

KL to Beijing is a 7 hour flight typically. I've flown it before. Flight time from KL to Ho Chi Minh City, which is the nearest major city along the flight route is about 2 hours.

So 1-2 hours away from KL is in the Gulf of Thailand where they're searching now

 

[Cromat]

Has there ever been a case of a flight missing for so long without finding the crash site? Seems really bizarre especially considering that it couldn't have crashed somewhere too far from civilization.

 

[The_Endless]

Has there ever been a case of a flight missing for so long without finding the crash site? Seems really bizarre especially considering that it couldn't have crashed somewhere too far from civilization.

It took two years before they determined the site of the 2009 Air France AF447 crash, methinks

 

[Cromat]

It took two years before they determined the site of the 2009 Air France AF447 crash, methinks

Oh wow, guess I was completely off. Was that transatlantic?

 

[DrForester]

It took two years before they determined the site of the 2009 Air France AF447 crash, methinks

They still found some wreckage and bodies early enough in the search.

 

[Broder Salsa]

Holy fuck some of those photos of grieving people at the airports are tasteless. Half of them clearly not wanting to get photographed while getting stuck several cameras in their face

 

[The_Endless]

They still found some wreckage and bodies early enough in the search.

First wreckage and bodies within 3 days, I think. That was 1000km off Brazil though, en route to France

It's 5am here. They should be starting the second day of search and rescue/recovery soon. They found oil slicks consistent with an airplane crash off southern Vietnam earlier

 

[Daria]

Yeah, that suprised me too. And to add to this discussion, the chief of flightradar24.com (a website to track the flights) said they lost sign of the aircraft one hour before the time given by the airline..which would give that 400NM more or less. So maybe the problem is that they are searching in the wrong place.

KL to Beijing is a 7 hour flight typically. I've flown it before. Flight time from KL to Ho Chi Minh City, which is the nearest major city along the flight route is about 2 hours.

So 1-2 hours away from KL is in the Gulf of Thailand where they're searching now

A friend of mine who has been following this as well says they lost communications ~40 minutes into the flight. And something with the path that it took doesn't seem right. The straight line to Hong Kong it shows on the tracker is not the flight path.

 

[FrostuTheNinja]

Holy fuck some of those photos of grieving people at the airports are tasteless. Half of them clearly not wanting to get photographed while getting stuck several cameras in their face

Well, the press is seemingly loaded with pukes, so it's not all that surprising to see them act like predators.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Has there ever been a case of a flight missing for so long without finding the crash site? Seems really bizarre especially considering that it couldn't have crashed somewhere too far from civilization.

Air France Flight 447 wasn't found for 2 years