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[Insane Metal]

Yes, but both Vietnam and Malaysia have said that large oil slicks left by shipping vessels are not uncommon in the Gulf of Thailand.

A representative at Boeing has said that it appears to be conducive to that of a slick that a crashing plane would leave. No idea how to recognize that, but I'll take it for what it is.

I didn't know about that, thanks.

 

[pax217]

I didn't know about that, thanks.

Yeah. I'm certainly not ruling out that it's from the plane. It's in the right spot...

Where I've placed the marker is approximate to where the Vietnamese Navy have said it was.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/8...103.181681,8z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0

Below is your flight path.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Kua...25620af0fa98a!2m2!1d116.407526!2d39.90403!3e4

Sorry if those don't work for some (I know Google Maps is weird about links)

 

[Daria]

Not if it was destroyed? That is what is crazy about this. The fact that the plane just dropped off from the radar immediately. Only way that could happen, is if something catastrophic happened that caused extensive damage to the plane and all communications. That is what is so interesting and worrying about this incident.

I don't understand why people are thinking anything that happened was something other than a mechanical failure. A hijacking seems unlikely because not only would they have to get into the cockpit to begin with (unlikely) they would have to pull the fuse to disable the ADB-S to cut tracking, and have absolutely no communication over the radio on what is happening.

 

[Pandemic]

This whole thing is bizarre..

 

[Insane Metal]

Yeah. I'm certainly not ruling out that it's from the plane. It's in the right spot...

Where I've placed the marker is approximate to where the Vietnamese Navy have said it was.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/8...103.181681,8z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0

Below is your flight path.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Kua...25620af0fa98a!2m2!1d116.407526!2d39.90403!3e4

Sorry if those don't work for some (I know Google Maps is weird about links)

All I know is that this is bizarre. Almost 2 days and no sign of the aircraft. I'm puzzled

 

[pax217]

All I know is that this is bizarre. Almost 2 days and no sign of the aircraft. I'm puzzled

They've had daylight for about three hours now, so I'm sure something will come up in the next few hours... sun doesn't set until 6p, it's 10a. They'll find something in-between.

 

[Insane Metal]

They've had daylight for about three hours now, so I'm sure something will come up in the next few hours... sun doesn't set until 6p, it's 10a. They'll find something in-between.

Well duh. I'm stupid

Going to bed in a few minutes, I hope there's some news when I wake up tomorrow... :/

 

[breakfuss]

Are there not like, you know, GPS or distress beacons on these things? How in the hell does a commercial jetliner fall completely off the grid like this??? It's horrifying. It's one thing to not be able to find the wreckage, but to not know its last location or (god forbid) point of impact boggles my mind.

 

[DrForester]

Are there not like, you know, GPS or distress beacons on these things? How in the hell does a commercial jetliner fall completely off the grid like this??? It's horrifying. It's one thing to not be able to find the wreckage, but to not know its last location or (god forbid) point of impact boggles my mind.

When you're over the water, you're not on the grid. Planes may navigate by GPS, but GPS is not a one way thing.

 

[Konka]

I think there needs to be a discussion within the industry regarding tech that can be added to these planes to make them easier to located in an event like this.

 

[Mononoke]

I don't understand why people are thinking anything that happened was something other than a mechanical failure. A hijacking seems unlikely because not only would they have to get into the cockpit to begin with (unlikely) they would have to pull the fuse to disable the ADB-S to cut tracking, and have absolutely no communication over the radio on what is happening.

To be clear, I never said it wasn't a mechanical failure. Just that, something big had to have happened to also destroy communications as well. I agree with you, jumping to conclusions that is must be a bomb is a big leap. I'm not an expert on Mechanical failure though. I've already read enough to understand it can tear apart an entire plane and destroy it substantially.

But can mechanical failure damage a plane so bad, that all communications/tracking go out instantly? Or are people looking at this the wrong way?

My understanding is that 777s have extensive tracking/communications, that it would be really hard to take all of them out. So for a 777 to just drop off tracking instantly, would mean that whatever happened to the plane was BIG and happened quickly enough to take out the communications/tracking since there was no descent in the moment leading up to the drop off of communications/tracking.

 

[Charcoal]

Such a shame that it took first responders so long to get to the last known location. No matter what happened, everything's at the bottom of the ocean now.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Yes, but both Vietnam and Malaysia have said that large oil slicks left by shipping vessels are not uncommon in the Gulf of Thailand.

A representative at Boeing has said that it appears to be conducive to that of a slick that a crashing plane would leave. No idea how to recognize that, but I'll take it for what it is.

Probably two slicks from two wings.

 

[Big-E]

About the terrorist angle, even though no one has taken responsibility, it could still potentially be one. Last weeks mass stabbing incident in China was not claimed by anyone to my knowledge.

 

[Daria]

To be clear, I never said it wasn't a mechanical failure. Just that, something big had to have happened to also destroy communications as well. I agree with you, jumping to conclusions that is must be a bomb is a big leap. I'm not an expert on Mechanical failure though. I've already read enough to understand it can tear apart an entire plane and destroy it substantially.

But can mechanical failure damage a plane so bad, that all communications/tracking go out instantly? Or are people looking at this the wrong way?

My understanding is that 777s have extensive tracking/communications, that it would be really hard to take all of them out. So for a 777 to just drop off tracking instantly, would mean that whatever happened to the plane was BIG and happened quickly enough to take out the communications/tracking since there was no descent in the moment leading up to the drop off of communications/tracking.

From what I've been told and read, yes it can. It doesn't always have to be a major problem at first, these things can happen with a single smaller issue that is not detected or not fixed right away. Just like the incident in 2002 where the issue was from an earlier faulty repair and caused metal fatigue which wasn't found for years. That one small issue led to a catastrophic event. Not saying that metal fatigue is the issue here but something very small can cause a major issue in the end.

 

[Trouble]

I thought international airports had transitioned from radar to GPS for planes. Wouldn't that give them a precise location?

GPS is a one way system. Devices listen for signals sent by satellites, but don't send signals back to them.

 

[Sectorseven]

GPS is a one way system. Devices listen for signals sent by satellites, but don't send signals back to them.

I searched for it and apparently I was thinking of "NextGen."

Aircraft transponders receive GPS signals and use them to determine the aircraft's precise position in the sky. These and other data are then broadcast to other aircraft and air traffic control. Once fully established, both pilots and air traffic controllers will, for the first time, see the same real-time display of air traffic, substantially improving safety.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Air_Transportation_System

I'm guessing Malaysia doesn't have it yet.

 

[Mononoke]

From what I've been told and read, yes it can. It doesn't always have to be a major problem at first, these things can happen with a single smaller issue that is not detected or not fixed right away. Just like the incident in 2002 where the issue was from an earlier faulty repair and caused metal fatigue which wasn't found for years. That one small issue led to a catastrophic event. Not saying that metal fatigue is the issue here but something very small can cause a major issue in the end.

I think I overestimated how well equipped and protected the communication/tracking is on these 777s. Good explanation.

 

[j_k_redtail]

All I know is that this is bizarre. Almost 2 days and no sign of the aircraft. I'm puzzled

I know, right? Just when I think technology has made the world smaller, something like this happens and reminds me how vast the world actually is. And how much of it is unknown. It stuns me that an airline can just disappear, for some reason.

 

[kurahador]

So from the current PC; the oil slick is real, but no debris was detected. Currently Vietnam ships are on their way there to investigate further.

 

[Pandemic]

Fox News are having a debate about it, and an 'expert' thinks it's ''highly likely'' that an explosive was placed on the plane, for it to be taken out within seconds.

The two other people involved in the debate seemed to have agreed.

 

[pax217]

So from the current PC; the oil slick is real, but no debris was detected. Currently Vietnam ships are on their way there to investigate further.

Vietnam ships have been there since sunrise... haven't found any debris, or at least no one's changed the report if they have.

Fox News are having a debate about it, and an 'expert' thinks it's ''highly likely'' that an explosive was placed on the plane, for it to be taken out within seconds.

The two other people involved in the debate seemed to have agreed.

Of course FOX would say that. (I'm a conservative, for the record)

 

[Mononoke]

Fox News are having a debate about it, and an 'expert' thinks it's ''highly likely'' that an explosive was placed on the plane, for it to be taken out within seconds.

The two other people involved in the debate seemed to have agreed.

I think it's possible that people assume bombs will always be big enough to blow up an entire plane. Someone linked to a past terrorist attack where a bomb was set off, and only damaged one section of the plane. Mechanical failure would cause much more damage (especially if it's weakened metal that breaks the plane in half). So that actually makes sense to me. It sounds more realistic that a complete mechanical failure would be large enough to take out an entire plane instantly vs a bomb.

 

[kurahador]

Vietnam ships have been there since sunrise... haven't found any debris, or at least no one's changed the report if they have.

I see....guess there's nothing new then, as usual.

At this point it's all about internet/media report stuffs and we wait for it to be confirm from PC.

 

[pax217]

I see....guess there's nothing new then, as usual.

At this point it's all about internet/media report stuffs and waiting for confirmation from PC.

I'm trying to nerf my media intake as much as possible. When everyone wants details, and no one has any, the media will say anything to keep you watching... which is where the majority of the terrorism stuff has come from. The only thing any official sources have said about terrorism is "Yes, there were some illegally used passports on-board" and that's it. It seems like every media outlet has a full speculation as to how it was pulled off already.

 

[Kinky John]

There's even a picture:

I've seen people on other forums speculate that this might actually be Trichodesmium.

Edit: On further inspection, the fuel slick could be the lighter blue over on the right of the picture. It's hard to tell if that's on the water or a reflection on the glass from inside the aircraft.

 

[SeaOfMadness]

I'm sorry, but do you actually know what the you're talking about here?

Yes, I do. At least one expert has said basically the same thing I did. This was a catastrophic event of some kind. Either an explosion from inside or outside. There's no other explanation at this time.

 

[PK_man]

this is just getting bizarre, like an something from the Twilight Zone. Other than the plane crashing, what else could've happened?
time travel?
wormhole?
alien abduction?
hit by meteor?

 

[Trouble]

this is just getting bizarre, like an something from the Twilight Zone. Other than the plane crashing, what else could've happened?
time travel?
wormhole?
alien abduction?
hit by meteor?

Heist
Viral Marketing

But really, the plane crashed.

 

[pax217]

I've seen people on other forums speculate that this might actually be Trichodesmium.

In all honesty, I do think it's bacteria. But with the tragedy of the situation, I didn't want to say anything. Oil slicks in water usually only take on a different color after having enough time to absorb (whatever) to make it a different color than black... it hasn't been enough time.

Yes, I do. At least one expert has said basically the same thing I did. This was a catastrophic event of some kind. Either an explosion from inside or outside. There's no other explanation at this time.

I'm not discounting anything you're saying, but if it hit at a slow cruise of even 400 knots, that plane is composite and would be torn to all hell... but yeah, no contact says something happened mid-air.

 

[Dryk]

Yes, I do. At least one expert has said basically the same thing I did. This was a catastrophic event of some kind. Either an explosion from inside or outside. There's no other explanation at this time.

Hull failure can also be catastrophic.

 

[Pandemic]

Hull failure can also be catastrophic.

That word has popped up a lot, what does it mean for a plane to experience hull failure?

 

[pax217]

The director-general of Malaysia's Civil Aviation Department has just said that they're hours into daylight of day two, and they've found nothing.

Malaysian officials confirmed that there is an oil slick off of Vietnam's coast... but that they don't know if it's from the plane, and again, that slicks in that Gulf are uncommon.

That word has popped up a lot, what does it mean for a plane to experience hull failure?

Hull failure is actually a marine term, not commonly used in aviation. It's when a ship's hull is damaged to the point that it causes a domino effect of failure of the rest of the body. In this situation, I think Dryk meant that if the front was damaged, at a jet's speed, it would simply begin to continue to rip itself apart. [Edit: Corrected a few posts down]

 

[lordfuzzybutt]

Vietnam ships have been there since sunrise... haven't found any debris, or at least no one's changed the report if they have.

Vietnam ships had been there since last night, they were there during the night, only the planes were call off came nightfall.

 

[pax217]

Vietnam ships had been there since last night, they were there during the night, only the planes were call off came nightfall.

Yeah, and they just said they've still found nothing with the last 4-5 hours of sunlight that they've had. Really crazy.

 

[themagicalkitsune]

Jeez that is some Langoliers shit. I can't believe half of the rumors circulating in the media.

 

[Dryk]

That word has popped up a lot, what does it mean for a plane to experience hull failure?

Aircraft are subject to large amounts of cyclic loading, especially near the wings. Over time you'll get small cracks in the metal due to fatigue and pockets of weakened metal due to corrosion. The cracks will grow and multiply until eventually they reach a critical point and large amounts of the fuselage just separate. It can happen very quickly because a few cracks will become long enough to interact with each other, the extra stress in the area will cause them to join into one big crack which causes extra stress in other parts of the plane etc.

 

[pax217]

Jeez that is some Langoliers shit. I can't believe half of the rumors circulating in the media.

"Many rumors. Few clues. No facts." - Malaysian official, about 12 hr ago

Aircraft are subject to large amounts of cyclic loading, especially near the wings. Over time you'll get small cracks in the metal due to fatigue and pockets of weakened metal due to corrosion. The cracks will grow and multiply until eventually they reach a critical point and large amounts of the fuselage just separate.

Got it. Thanks for the insight.

 

[Pandemic]

Hull failure is actually a marine term, not commonly used in aviation. It's when a ship's hull is damaged to the point that it causes a domino effect of failure of the rest of the body. In this situation, I think Dryk meant that if the front was damaged, at a jet's speed, it would simply begin to continue to rip itself apart. [Edit: Corrected a few posts down]

Aircraft are subject to large amounts of cyclic loading, especially near the wings. Over time you'll get small cracks in the metal due to fatigue and pockets of weakened metal due to corrosion. The cracks will grow and multiply until eventually they reach a critical point and large amounts of the fuselage just separate. It can happen very quickly because a few cracks will become long enough to interact with each other, the extra stress in the area will cause them to join into one big crack which causes extra stress in other parts of the plane etc.

Interesting stuff... Cheers for the responses!

 

[rocketskates]

That word has popped up a lot, what does it mean for a plane to experience hull failure?

I know, right? Just when I think technology has made the world smaller, something like this happens and reminds me how vast the world actually is. And how much of it is unknown. It stuns me that an airline can just disappear, for some reason.

The ocean is a monster. An unknown vast area that will probably never be fully explored. Have you heard of the Mariana Trench?

Fox News are having a debate about it, and an 'expert' thinks it's ''highly likely'' that an explosive was placed on the plane, for it to be taken out within seconds.

The two other people involved in the debate seemed to have agreed.

It's Fox News. Next they'll be saying Obama had something to do with it and be completely serious.

 

[Dryk]

Hull failure is actually a marine term, not commonly used in aviation. It's when a ship's hull is damaged to the point that it causes a domino effect of failure of the rest of the body. In this situation, I think Dryk meant that if the front was damaged, at a jet's speed, it would simply begin to continue to rip itself apart. [Edit: Corrected a few posts down]

The word I was looking for was fuselage but I'm sleepy and not very vocabularyy today

 

[Daria]

It seems the Yahoo report of 2 more stolen passports is true. Breaking News alert from the Malaysian transport minister say officials are investigating the identities of 4 passengers on the missing flight.

This isn't good.

 

[pax217]

The word I was looking for was fuselage but I'm sleepy and not very vocabularyy today

I only knew "Hull Failure" from stuff like the Titanic, so your application of planes was enlightening for me (I hadn't heard it before, but makes total sense in-application), thanks!

It seems the Yahoo report of 2 more stolen passports is true. Breaking News alert from the Malaysian transport minister say officials are investigating the identities of 4 passengers on the missing flight.

This isn't good.

Yeah, some of WSJ's reporters were talking about it on their Twitter in-passing. Sucks if they're actually looking into it. I feel like they know a lot we don't, and they're just not giving out any details until they know all of them.

Side note: WSJ has just put their latest article behind their pay-wall which is shitty. I'll copy-and-paste if anything interesting comes up, but they have nothing that everyone else doesn't have as of now. No one else updates as frequently with the accuracy that they do, though.

 

[Thrillhouse]

Why would anyone bother to blow up a plane in mid air? If you simply want to kill a lot of people, aren't there easier ways? As far as I know, there aren't any hostilities between Malays and Chinese, or any sub-groups in between, that could act as a motif.

Terrorist-lead seems ridiculous to me. Unless they've landed the plane somewhere in China, and are biding their time until the next phase. How they could have managed such a thing though...

 

[pax217]

Why would anyone bother to blow up a plane in mid air? If you simply want to kill a lot of people, aren't there easier ways? As far as I know, there aren't any hostilities between Malays and Chinese, or any sub-groups in between, that could act as a motif.

Terrorist-lead seems ridiculous to me.

It's the sensationalist aspect, if you ask me. It's also a binary result. Either you pull it off and everyone dies, or you don't and no one dies.

If you're to put a bomb in a building, whatever, there's a chance it's going to be found and the building evacuated before it goes off. If you get past airport security, it's a go. I hate thinking about that, though. That's terrible.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Why would anyone bother to blow up a plane in mid air? If you simply want to kill a lot of people, aren't there easier ways? As far as I know, there aren't any hostilities between Malays and Chinese, or any sub-groups in between, that could act as a motif.

Terrorist-lead seems ridiculous to me.

You should probably ask the other terrorists who have blown up a plane in mid-air.

(They don't want to just kill a lot of people. They want a spectacular event too.)

 

[pax217]

As far as I know, there aren't any hostilities between Malays and Chinese, or any sub-groups in between, that could act as a motif.

There is a strong Muslim presence in Southeast Asia.

 

[Megalosaro]

You should probably ask the other terrorists who have blown up a plane in mid-air.

(They don't want to just kill a lot of people. They want a spectacular event too.)

if this were the case though, how come no one has stepped forward. What's the message?

There is a strong Muslim presence in Southeast Asia.

What are you implying?

 

[lordfuzzybutt]

Yeah, and they just said they've still found nothing with the last 4-5 hours of sunlight that they've had. Really crazy.

Given they have 10 000 km2 to cover, and with only 3-4 ships, I guess that might be difficult.

But yes, this is starting to feel crazy.

 

[Pandemic]

Some interesting details..

The captain, who requested to remain anonymous, told Malaysian media outlets his plane, which was bound for Narita, Japan, was in Vietnamese airspace when he was asked to contact the pilot flying the missing plane.

In using his plane’s emergency frequency, he was asked to try and establish its position after authorities failed to make contact.

“We managed to establish contact with MH370 just after 1.30am and asked them if they have transferred into Vietnamese airspace,” he told the New Straits Times.

“The voice on the other side could have been either Captain Zaharie or Fariq, but I was sure it was the co-pilot.

“There were a lot of interference... static... but I heard mumbling from the other end.

“That was the last time we heard from them, as we lost the connection,” he said.”

He said those on the same frequency at the time would have heard him, including vessels on the waters below.

He said he thought nothing of losing contact at first, as it was was normal, until the plane never landed in Beijing.

“If the plane was in trouble, we would have heard the pilot making the Mayday distress call. But I am sure that, like me, no one else up there heard it.

“Following the silence, a repeat request was made by the Vietnamese authorities to try establishing contact with them.”

Link