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[KHarvey16]

It couldn't have been hit by a gamma ray or something?

SEUs are also mitigated to varying degrees depending on the design assurance level of the equipment. If some kind of radiation corrupts some memory usually a crc will pick it up and the device rewrites itself and clears the error.

Edit

And that's not even accounting for redundancy in level a systems.

 

[teruterubozu]

My problem is that I feel like I could fly a plane better than anyone else even though:

A) I'm not actually trained to fly a plane

and

B) Rationally I know I can't fly a plane

Brains sure are fucking dumb sometimes.

This is why they tried to ban flight simulator games after 9/11

 

[DedValve]

Well it's a feeling-of-control issue. You could be a idiot who talks on the cell phone while putting on makeup and going 70mph down the interstate. Which would raise your risk of being among that 1 in 98. Or you could be a safe and attentive driver going down that same interstate (obviously there are unavoidable accidents, but take the avoidable ones out of the equation).

Once you get on that plane, your risk of dying is about the same as the person sitting next to you, no matter what you do.

I suppose it's a psychological thing, and why I feel much safer driving myself than sitting in the car while my mother is driving.

But you can't just take the unavoidable ones out of the equations. Many drunk/distracted drivers also take the lives of the innocents around them.

You really have more control in a car than you do in a plane but the odds of you dying in a car and it being not your fault is way higher than dying in a plane. I just not think about it.

 

[coldfoot]

I call BS on the ringing cell phone theory, if they're ringing, the phones are either not on the plane, or it's coming from the phone network. For example sometimes Verizon used to ring endlessly when the callee was in the subway and had no reception, didn't go straight to voicemail as you'd normally expect.

If a phone on the plane was actually ringing, they'd have its location by triangulating by now.

 

[Chittagong]

Crazy stuff.

(Reuters) - Ships from six navies, dozens of military aircraft, sweeps with radar technology that can spot a soccer ball from hundreds of feet in the air - all have failed to find a single confirmed trace of a Malaysia Airlines plane that vanished three days ago.

(...)

The Orion was used for more than three hours on Sunday, sweeping about 4,000 sq km every hour. It is equipped with the APS-147, an advanced radar system that can identify a soccer ball bobbing in the water from hundreds of feet in the air.

(...)

"We've ordered border guard forces and all fishing boats to check the area," Pham Thanh Tuoi, chairman of the People's Committee of Vietnam's southern Ca Mau Province, told Reuters by phone. "Everyone is on the alert and searching out at the sea, but we haven't found anything yet."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/10/malaysia-airline-search-idUSL3N0M72K420140310

 

[breakfuss]

Precisely what so many of us have been saying here:

The ongoing mystery of Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 is the fault of a bizarre quirk in our networked society. Even cars have broadband connectivity now, but the modern jet airliner – perhaps our most technologically evolved mode of transport – still exists in the age of radio.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/09/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-black-box

 

[Linkhero1]

Are they currently searching using only aircrafts and ships? No submarines?

 

[Kinky John]

#MH370 hunt in perspective. Red areas are search zones. Yellow circle is search area for #AF447 on the same scale.

https://twitter.com/FlightDKM

 

[HoosTrax]

Are they currently searching using only aircrafts and ships? No submarines?

They would not mention the submarines, I think, even if they were in on the action.

 

[Daria]

Fwiw those red squares are new search areas which they just recently expanded to.

 

[Linkhero1]

They would not mention the submarines, I think, even if they were in on the action.

Is there a reason for this? I don't recall media coverage of previous crashes so I don't really remember if they mentioned sending submarines to search.

 

[coldfoot]

Plane communication technology is ridiculous. If airlines can have wifi internet in the air, they can definitely transmit plane coordinates and other info in real time.

In fact, here's a cool idea for a smartphone app:
Transmit your coordinates and speed and altitude (given by phone's GPS) to a website every few seconds using the plane's onboard wireless internet. Get this app out and for all the internet-enabled planes, you won't need anything else.

 

[zma1013]

So they don't really even have a clue as to which way this plane went do they?

 

[MThanded]

Plane communication technology is ridiculous. If airlines can have wifi internet in the air, they can definitely transmit plane coordinates and other info in real time.

In fact, here's a cool idea for a smartphone app:
Transmit your coordinates and speed and altitude (given by phone's GPS) to a website every few seconds using the plane's onboard wireless internet. Get this app out and for all the internet-enabled planes, you won't need anything else.

Phone GPS commonly requires towers. It's not going to be useful.

 

[breakfuss]

Phone GPS commonly requires towers. It's not going to be useful.

Satellite?!

 

[Insane Metal]

https://twitter.com/FlightDKM

Holy shit... that's a huge area. That's why it's taking so long.

 

[HoosTrax]

Is there a reason for this? I don't recall media coverage of previous crashes so I don't really remember if they mentioned sending submarines to search.

I was just speculating. But my line of reasoning being they're supposed to be secretive and hidden, their locations classified, and their capabilities are top-secret.

Now if you're talking about unarmed search and rescue submersibles, then yes, those have been made available in this case.

 

[Linkhero1]

I was just speculating. But my line of reasoning being they're supposed to be secretive and hidden, their locations classified, and their capabilities are top-secret.

Now if you're talking about unarmed search and rescue submersibles, then yes, those have been made available in this case.

I was referring to both armed and unarmed submarines. Makes sense though. I don't think they would mention anything about the ones used by any military.

I wonder how deep the waters over there are.

 

[coldfoot]

Phone GPS commonly requires towers. It's not going to be useful.

You're wrong here. It only uses towers to assist in locking on faster to the actual GPS signal, which comes from satellites, not cell towers. Without towers, GPS will still work but it will take several minutes to lock on to the GPS satellites.
This applies for iPhone and most flagship Android phones. iPhone GPS doesn't have WAAS so it's only accurate to 10m, still good enough to act as a crash beacon.

 

[Fjolle]

So they don't really even have a clue as to which way this plane went do they?

The fact that they are searching on the west side of Malaysia irks me.

1: They have no idea where the plane was.
2: Their air defense apparently allows an unidentified plane to cross their country undetected.

or 3: They know more than they are telling us?

 

[JetBlackPanda]

This case is very interesting and I hope we can institute changes in the future so this kind of thing can't happen again. (losing all contact)

My guess is they had some kind of emergency the pilot was under hypoxia and turned off the transponder by mistake and the plane flew along on its own before hitting land or sea.

 

[MThanded]

You're wrong here. It only uses towers to assist in locking on faster to the actual GPS signal, which comes from satellites, not cell towers. Without towers, GPS will still work but it will take several minutes to lock on to the GPS satellites.
This applies for iPhone and most flagship Android phones. iPhone GPS doesn't have WAAS so it's only accurate to 10m, still good enough to act as a crash beacon.

Barring my over simplification of the problem , aren't there some technical issues at play here.

1.With the phone moving at such a rapid rate won't GPS hardware have a hard time keeping up with an accurate location.

2. Wifi is commonly disabled on international flights that I have been on.

3. Phone batteries would get crushed.

Not saying it wouldn't work.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Crazy stuff.



http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/10/malaysia-airline-search-idUSL3N0M72K420140310

Mind boggling

 

[coldfoot]

Barring my over simplification of the problem.

Aren't there some technical issues at play here.

1.With the phone moving at such a rapid rate won't GPS hardware have a hard time keeping up with an accurate location.

2. Wifi is commonly disabled on international flights.

3. Phone batteries would get crushed.

Many transatlantic flights I've been to in the past few years had both internet and power outlets. You do need to be close to a window though, and the best method would be just to use an bluetooth GPS receiver.

 

[teruterubozu]

Precisely what so many of us have been saying here:

- The ongoing mystery of Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 is the fault of a bizarre quirk in our networked society. Even cars have broadband connectivity now, but the modern jet airliner – perhaps our most technologically evolved mode of transport – still exists in the age of radio.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/09/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-black-box

I guess, but our space technology relies on radio too. It's the simple logistics of being "up in the air".

 

[Jimrpg]

That east coast search area is bugging me as I watched the PC. I don't get why the search area is that large. If it did cross to the other side of Malaysia peninsula to the Penang side, surely some radar or something would have picked it up. Once they lost the radar signal surely all control towers would have been on alert to try and pick up a signal from the aircraft.

Plus the east coast search area is much larger than the west coast search area which is where its supposed to have crashed. Also the east coast search area is nowhere near the flight route back to KL, so either they flew manual and got the direction wrong or somebody else was flying the plane and had other ideas.

If its out on the east side, then the plane was not on radar for a lot longer than I expected before it went down... possibly an hour or more.

Or maybe the malaysian authority just want people to know they are doing everything possible at this stage.

 

[HoosTrax]

Has it been explained yet why US spy satellite images of the area haven't picked up any sign of the debris? Is it just taking a long time to sift through the volume of imagery?

(I sort of work in this field, so I'm at least aware of techniques of finding anomalies in airborne imagery, but the scope we're talking about here is much larger than what I typically work with)

 

[KHarvey16]

Many transatlantic flights I've been to in the past few years had both internet and power outlets. You do need to be close to a window though, and the best method would be just to use an bluetooth GPS receiver.

Wifi is provided using GSM or satellite. Obviously GSM isn't useful over the ocean so the plane must have satellite connectivity for it to work. On top of that satellite links can drop out and malfunctions wouldn't be deemed a flight risk and so wouldn't cause an airplane to not leave with it turned off. Even ACARS not working won't ground a plane I don't think.

 

[muu]

Barring my over simplification of the problem , aren't there some technical issues at play here.

1.With the phone moving at such a rapid rate won't GPS hardware have a hard time keeping up with an accurate location.

2. Wifi is commonly disabled on international flights that I have been on.

3. Phone batteries would get crushed.

Not saying it wouldn't work.

1) Wouldn't be a problem. Youtube has tons of folks who tried a GPS while on a plane, and it tracks just fine. The inherent inaccuracy of a GPS is a nonissue is you're not trying to use it as a targeting system.

2) Due to bullshit reasons to not interfere w/ other signals. I believe this has been debunked numerous times, but the regulations simply still exist for the lack of a better redefinition.

3) Well, you're not just going to stick a phone in a case that says iCrashBeacon and call it a day. Depending on whether you're constantly sending a heartbeat signal or making it a blackbox/transmitter you have plenty of options regarding how you'll keep track of / get tracked in the event of a disaster.

 

[.GqueB.]

I guess I don't place 100% confidence in the mental state or alertness of the pilot. There have been cases of airline pilots having mental breakdowns while at the controls, flying into hills due to fatigue/lack of sleep, or deciding to take the plane on a detour to request asylum in another country.

In the second case -- it's your life on the line, but it's their career on the line if they don't complete their route.

I think my confidence is at about 90%. As you said, human error is a big factor here. I, personally, get more worried about the actual plane. A lot of those things are old as balls. Older than you'd ever imagine. And whenever I have a window seat, I like to look at how everything outside works and those flaps look so "technical". It's the wrong word to use but you can see all of the little wires and flips flaps. It all looks so fragile.

 

[cyberheater]

I still can't believe in 2014 that planes don't accurately transmit their GPS co-ordinates to something.

I was reading about Air France flight 447. It took two years to find the bulk of the wreckage and another month after that to find the flight recorder. Crazy stuff.

 

[Valkyr Junkie]

Has it been explained yet why US spy satellite images of the area haven't picked up any sign of the debris? Is it just taking a long time to sift through the volume of imagery?

(I sort of work in this field, so I'm at least aware of techniques of finding anomalies in airborne imagery, but the scope we're talking about here is much larger than what I typically work with)

I would think some of this has to do with not wanting to divulge what parts of the globe we have quick access to with satellites that offer the kind of resolution any debris out there may fit in.

 

[Sectorseven]

Have they confirmed if that oil slick was from the plane?

 

[KHarvey16]

2) Due to bullshit reasons to not interfere w/ other signals. I believe this has been debunked numerous times, but the regulations simply still exist for the lack of a better redefinition.

These are not bullshit reasons. I don't understand how this propagated through popular media and culture but the regulations regarding consumer electronics and interference are based on sound science and decades of avionics and aeronautical development.

 

[HoosTrax]

I would think some of this has to do with not wanting to divulge what parts of the globe we have quick access to with satellites that offer the kind of resolution any debris out there may fit in.

Hmm ok. I just got curious about reading this in a Reuters article:

The United States extensively reviewed imagery taken by American spy satellites for evidence of a mid-air explosion, but saw none, a U.S. government source said. The source described U.S. satellite coverage of the region as thorough.

It's unclear if that means "evidence of no mid-air explosion" or "no evidence of mid-air explosion".

 

[Betta Lines]

Have they confirmed if that oil slick was from the plane?

They confirmed that it wasn't.

 

[Daria]

That east coast search area is bugging me as I watched the PC. I don't get why the search area is that large. If it did cross to the other side of Malaysia peninsula to the Penang side, surely some radar or something would have picked it up. Once they lost the radar signal surely all control towers would have been on alert to try and pick up a signal from the aircraft.

Plus the east coast search area is much larger than the west coast search area which is where its supposed to have crashed. Also the east coast search area is nowhere near the flight route back to KL, so either they flew manual and got the direction wrong or somebody else was flying the plane and had other ideas.

If its out on the east side, then the plane was not on radar for a lot longer than I expected before it went down... possibly an hour or more.

Or maybe the malaysian authority just want people to know they are doing everything possible at this stage.

They just expanded the search areas because they haven't had any luck in the current areas they were looking in. It's a big ocean, they can't just start searching around everywhere without having a solid idea of where to look exactly. I'm sure they'll expand it even more eventually.

Also the plane lost communication only 42 minutes into the flight and it was not reported lost until 2 hours in. By the time the alerts went out the plane was probably already down somewhere or very close to.

 

[zma1013]

Has it been explained yet why US spy satellite images of the area haven't picked up any sign of the debris? Is it just taking a long time to sift through the volume of imagery?

(I sort of work in this field, so I'm at least aware of techniques of finding anomalies in airborne imagery, but the scope we're talking about here is much larger than what I typically work with)

The ocean is big. They would have to know a more specific point to look than just the The Gulf of Thailand. Debris from a plane in the ocean isn't going to be easy to spot unless you know exactly where it is and you zoom in a lot.

 

[Valkyr Junkie]

Hmm ok. I just got curious about reading this in a Reuters article:



It's unclear if that means "evidence of no mid-air explosion" or "no evidence of mid-air explosion".

Explosions would be different as they would be relying on spy satellites utilizing non-optical detection methods from how I understand it. Similar to how we can detect an ICBM being launched without having an optical lens from a spy satellite trained directly on it. Satellites looking for IR signatures could probably have helped if they had a general idea of the area to look for, while the plane/wreck was still hot.

 

[aeroslash]

These are not bullshit reasons. I don't understand how this propagated through popular media and culture but the regulations regarding consumer electronics and interference are based on sound science and decades of avionics and aeronautical development.

At least! Someone that understands it!

But now, some airlines have wifi built in in their planes and many more let you use your personal electronic devices during all phases of flights (in plane mode).

 

[DyTonic]

Any good theories as to what happened?

 

[footfunghi]

Here is something new:

"British newspaper Financial Times quoted the Thai travel agent who booked the tickets for the men as saying that she had been asked to arrange the travel by an Iranian contact."

someone called "Mr Ali" but it gets worse (at least for these persons in question due to them both ending on the plane):

"Benjaporn (the travel agent) initially reserved one of the men on a Qatar Airways flight and the other on Etihad. But the tickets expired when Benjaporn did not hear back from Ali.
...
When he contacted her again on Thursday, she rebooked the men on the Malaysia Airlines flight through Beijing because it was the cheapest available, the paper said."

And for all those people who think it was a terrorist act:
"Benjaporn said she did not believe Ali was linked to terrorism, particularly as he had not specified booking the Kuala Lumpur-Beijing flight but had instead asked for the cheapest route to Europe, FT reported."

Full article here:
http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2014/03/10/missing-mh37o-tickets-booked-in-pattaya/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

[TOP SHOTTA]

Any good theories as to what happened?

Massive breach in the aircraft's fuselage, perhaps from an explosion. The plane shredded and fell from the sky, and the ocean is too big to locate it yet.

Also, are you serious with that question?

 

[KHarvey16]

At least! Someone that understands it!

But now, some airlines have wifi built in in their planes and many more let you use your personal electronic devices during all phases of flights (in plane mode).

Yup. The built in wifi is tested to meet the more rigorous certification standards to make sure it doesn't interfere. And I don't know if the FAA has signed off on allowing devices to be turned on during critical phases, but if that does come about it's a compromise the regulatory authorities deem acceptable. As you said though that's only in airplane mode with all radios turned off, so they aren't even considering allowing people to transmit during takeoff and landing.

 

[War Eagle]

Here is something new:

"British newspaper Financial Times quoted the Thai travel agent who booked the tickets for the men as saying that she had been asked to arrange the travel by an Iranian contact."

someone called "Mr Ali" but it gets worse (at least for these persons in question due to them both ending on the plane):

"Benjaporn (the travel agent) initially reserved one of the men on a Qatar Airways flight and the other on Etihad. But the tickets expired when Benjaporn did not hear back from Ali.
...
When he contacted her again on Thursday, she rebooked the men on the Malaysia Airlines flight through Beijing because it was the cheapest available, the paper said."

And for all those people who think it was a terrorist act:
"Benjaporn said she did not believe Ali was linked to terrorism, particularly as he had not specified booking the Kuala Lumpur-Beijing flight but had instead asked for the cheapest route to Europe, FT reported."

Full article here:
http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2014/03/10/missing-mh37o-tickets-booked-in-pattaya/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Who says that terrorists and their financiers don't want to save a couple of bucks? I'm not claiming that this is a terrorist act, but just playing devil's advocate.

 

[Stinkles]

Who says that terrorists and their financiers don't want to save a couple of bucks? I'm not claiming that this is a terrorist act, but just playing devil's advocate.

It's also common for Interpol and other agencies to flag unusually expensive or "irrational" fares. This would not set off any alarms, since most passengers are looking for cheapest fares.

It works both ways.

 

[footfunghi]

Another question of mine:

Today they stated that 5 people checked-in but did not board the flight. Since i don't understand why someone would do that (bombs aside), is this commonplace?

(Of course if you're suddenly feeling ill such a thing happens, but at least you would inform the operator and don't wait till the last second.)

 

[Stinkles]

Another question of mine:

Today they stated that 5 people checked-in but did not board the flight. Since i don't understand why someone would do that (bombs aside), is this commonplace?

(Of course if you're suddenly feeling ill such a thing happens, but at least you would inform the operator and don't wait till the last second.)

Very common. Check in online the night before, get sick, miss train, caught in traffic, change plans etc etc.

 

[footfunghi]

Very common. Check in online the night before, get sick, miss train, caught in traffic, change plans etc etc.

But if you check-in online you cant check in your luggage. Also if you change planes at least you inform the operator that you want your luggage back to get it on the right plane.

Im not flying that often as you can guess and I would never leave the airport after checking my luggage in.

 

[crozier]

Iranian man bought both passports for two friends? Search grid expanded to areas nowhere near the projected flight path?

It's looking increasingly like they suspect a successful hijacking and that they have no clue where the plane was headed afterwards.