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Man of Steel |OT| It's about action.

B

Brinbe

Member
Caught it on IMAX last evening and I'd say if any movie was made for that experience MoS was it. Also, I know the DBZ comments are in overload, but it's true. That's all that was racing through my mind. Very satisfying action/combat and story was alright. Stop looking too deeply into shit and just enjoy.

Anyway, glad they successfully brought this franchise back, looking forward to the next.
 
B

bob_arctor

Tough_Smooth
arab said:
i liked iron man 3 more than man of steel and i hate marvel movies. this is a 6/10 at best. i cringed at
that fucking kiss
. plotholes abound. all the sudden
amy adams is a fucking precision shot using ALIEN GUNS thanks to the genius of russell fucking crowe
. the ending is so fucked too.
do any of lois' coworkers realize clark is superman even though they saw lois and superman kissing? the government can't track down a seemingly suspicious clark kent figure whose house was just destroyed at the site of a massive fight between their suspect?
action was the saving grace of the movie but man that plot is absolute garbage.

meh of steel
Click to expand...

Are these actually plot holes? I forget how we here at GAF use the term. TDKR thread was legendary in this regard.

Iron Man 3 was hot garbage. As a pilot for a new RDJ sitcom, it's dope though. String out that emotional trauma as a running gag over a whole season. Chaching!!
 
M

Matrix

LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world he’d rather have. The problem is, Dwyane’s not a woman.
KalBalboa said:
Wait, you don't think that Returns is a divisive film?
Click to expand...

I'm talking about general audience right now, not RT film critics.

It's regarded more as a crappy Supes film and boring as shit than anything, with some pretty images. And here on GAF not many people like Returns , you might be the biggest fan of of the film. I'm pretty sure you are.

I'm actually shocked Supes is getting this much attention here. I guess Nolan changed things lol
 
K

KalBalboa

Banned
Matrix said:
It's regarded more as a crappy Supes film and boring as shit than anything, with some pretty images. And here on GAF not many people like Returns , you might be the biggest fan of of the film. I'm pretty sure you are.

I'm actually shocked Supes is getting this much attention here. I guess Nolan changed things lol
Click to expand...

You know just about nothing about me, Matrix. I wouldn't even put Returns in my top five films or anything like that, but when I see idiotic mouth-breathing comments about how Returns is the "worst film I've ever seen" and such I can't help but question that type of idiocy.

I guess it should be expected on video game message boards though, right?

Superman Returns has fans and is respected moreso than Man of Steel as a better made film with a better story. You don't need to be an elitist or critic to find merits in Returns, and you can certainly prefer Man of Steel (once you actually see it, that is), but this clingy, defensive, denial-riddled notion that Man of Steel can't be criticised because Superman Returns is the "boring" "pussy" movie... it's just petty.

I still smile thinking of the reactions I saw posted in the wake of Returns being reviewed better than Man of Steel though, so there's some comfort there. (=
 
G

greendomo's ghost

Member
Maninthemirror said:
I guess to my interpretation the GA reactions matters more in the end because on most ocassions the RT and GA are pretty much in parity, not for this movie though. I guess you interpret critics reaction as having a slight advantage over GA reaction ?
Click to expand...

It's a flawed film, I'm sorry but that's a fact. If it wasn't there wouldn't be this level of complaints, from critics or people on this board. The numbers you're throwing out there are meaningless.

The general audience tends to be more forgiving because they are there to be entertained primarily, and so they can overlook a lot of the technical and creative side of the process. Critics generally take all of these things into account, which is why their scores are lower.

Also there's a big difference between asking someone, "So, what did you think?" right after they came out of the movie, and asking someone to write a detailed response to it. The more you delve into the problems, the more you see the weaknesses in the pacing, the writing, etc.

The opposite can also be true, some people watch it a second time and pick up things they missed before, and it can improve or lessen their opinion and enjoyment of the film.
 
M

Matrix

LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world he’d rather have. The problem is, Dwyane’s not a woman.
KalBalboa said:
Wait, you don't think that Returns is a divisive film?

I'd recommend watching it twice. I enjoyed it a lot more on second viewing, whereas the pacing problems really hurt the movie on opening night for me.
Click to expand...

I'll be doing that. Hell I even watched Returns 3 times in the theater trying to figure out why it wasn't working for me. I really wanted to love that film, you have no idea.
 
L

Liquidsnake

Banned
Man-of-steel-Christ-pose.jpg
 
MisterHero

MisterHero

Super Member
I rewatched Returns last night and it has great art direction.

Metropolis. The Daily Planet. The Fortress and the island. Luthor's library on the yacht. The train room.

It was easy to move on from those movies because Man of Steel presented its own fully-formed version of Krypton. Smallville was pretty good.

However, really want Metropolis in MoS2 to be either: Returns's art deco architecture, or an amped up version of Fritz Lang's Metropolis.

stutte said:
And every bad movie has it's fanboys. ;)
Click to expand...
Comic book/movie fanboys can hardly be accused of having fine taste.

I'm cool with that.
 
V

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Liquidsnake said:
Man-of-steel-Christ-pose.jpg
Click to expand...

If you thought the Christ metaphors were heavy-handed in Returns, boy do we have a movie for you!

"You can save all of them" *Jesus pose, thousands of people die horribly violent deaths, unearned kiss in the middle of a dead-lookin' city, kills Zod and proves him right, end*

That's our Superman
 
K

KalBalboa

Banned
greendomo's ghost said:
It's a flawed film, I'm sorry but that's a fact. If it wasn't there wouldn't be this level of complaints, from critics or people on this board. The numbers you're throwing out there are meaningless.

The general audience tends to be more forgiving because they are there to be entertained primarily, and so they can overlook a lot of the technical and creative side of the process. Critics generally take all of these things into account, which is why their scores are lower.

Also there's a big difference between asking someone, "So, what did you think?" right after they came out of the movie, and asking someone to write a detailed response to it. The more you delve into the problems, the more you see the weaknesses in the pacing, the writing, etc.

The opposite can also be true, some people watch it a second time and pick up things they missed before, and it can improve or lessen their opinion and enjoyment of the film.
Click to expand...

This is what happened to me. I left the theater with a group of friends and got some drinks where we talked over our general mediocre thoughts on the movie.

I wound up seeing it again two days later at a late RPX showing and found more to appreciate in the movie. It won me over a bit, and some of the initial shock of the middle act's problems had settled enough. Right now I like the movie but don't love it and hope the extended cut we'll inevitably see improves the movie.
 
A

arab

Member
bob_arctor said:
Are these actually plot holes? I forget how we here at GAF use the term. TDKR thread was legendary in this regard.

Iron Man 3 was hot garbage. As a pilot for a new RDJ sitcom, it's dope though. String out that emotional trauma as a running gag over a whole season. Chaching!!
Click to expand...

iron man 3 is not a good super hero movie but i'm disappointed that the meh i feel for marvel movies now applies to superman.

how is
lois lane, master of kryptonian weaponry and expert marksman
not a plothole? where is there any scene from earlier in the movie that can explain that? and the ending just happens with no explanation and creates a massive plothole.
clark kent, with no history of journalism credentials or anything, a man of the town that strangely enough was the site of massive intergalactic dragon ball z fights, who has a history of strange, supernatural powers within his own town, has the ability to sneak around the government in his own hometown graveyard and get a job at the metropolis paper that was about to expose his identity and story, which is already out there thanks to the internet

i can't remember if there's a reason that
zod wants to terraform earth other than the fact that it's where they found kal. why can't they just terraform another planet like fucking mars?

i felt nothing for kevin costner's death because it was just a flashback that happened with no build up. they should have arranged the first half to be chronological. i wanted to see more young clark struggle with his powers at a young age in a world where he doesn't belong, not fucking deadliest catch starring naked cavill turned into rig rescue. thank god for those flame retardent pants!!!
 
A

AkuMifune

Banned
Lois spends tons of time with the military. I'm sure she's had at least basic weapons training.

GAF's plot holes are anything they didn't bother to think more than a second about.
 
B

bob_arctor

Tough_Smooth
arab said:
iron man 3 is not a good super hero movie but i'm disappointed that the meh i feel for marvel movies now applies to superman.

how is
lois lane, master of kryptonian weaponry and expert marksman
not a plothole? where is there any scene from earlier in the movie that can explain that? and the ending just happens with no explanation and creates a massive plothole.

i can't remember if there's a reason that
zod wants to terraform earth other than the fact that it's where they found kal. why can't they just terraform another planet like fucking mars?

i felt nothing for kevin costner's death because it was just a flashback that happened with no build up. they should have arranged the first half to be chronological. i wanted to see more young clark struggle with his powers at a young age in a world where he doesn't belong, not fucking deadliest catch starring naked cavill turned into rig rescue. thank god for those flame retardent pants!!!
Click to expand...

I can't really give you a response I feel would sway you on Lois. It didn't bother me at all.
It was point blank range and she was being told exactly what to do and she seemed pretty scared the whole time. She was basically just shooting a gun. This was not rocket science despite its Kryptonian origins.

edit:

AkuMifune said:
GAF's plot holes are anything they didn't bother to think more than a second about.
Click to expand...

Yup, that's the TDKR thread!
 
M

Matrix

LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world he’d rather have. The problem is, Dwyane’s not a woman.
KalBalboa said:
You know just about nothing about me, Matrix. I wouldn't even put Returns in my top five films or anything like that, but when I see idiotic mouth-breathing comments about how Returns is the "worst film I've ever seen" and such I can't help but question that type of idiocy.

I guess it should be expected on video game message boards though, right?

Superman Returns has fans and is respected moreso than Man of Steel as a better made film with a better story. You don't need to be an elitist or critic to find merits in Returns, and you can certainly prefer Man of Steel (once you actually see it, that is), but this clingy, defensive, denial-riddled notion that Man of Steel can't be criticised because Superman Returns is the "boring" "pussy" movie... it's just petty.

I still smile thinking of the reactions I saw posted in the wake of Returns being reviewed better than Man of Steel though, so there's some comfort there. (=
Click to expand...

What the heck, calm down. You made that comment about me earlier going through a mourning process like someone died in my family when I didn't and all I did was laugh at you. You know nothing of me either if we are going to play that game. All I said was you're pretty much the biggest Returns fan here, I never said it was in your top movies and why get so defensive when I say that? I fucking love John Carter and don't shit on people when they call it the worst crap made. I could care less if someone said you're the biggest John Carter fan on GAF, I'd be like awesome, damn right I am. I know Carter isn't a perfect film either.

Superman Returns has been out what for 7 years now, respected moreso than MOS? That wouldn't take much since MOS hasn't even been out a week. A better story? I'm not even gonna touch that since one is a reboot I haven't seen and the other is just a boring film.

I'll smile at the thought I'll never have to watch a cosplay Donner film ever again and MOS is a success so I can have future Superman films :)
 
L

Liquidsnake

Banned
The Jesus factor.

Yeah but it is part of his mythology. I am convinced it was at his conception as a comic character. So I accept it, and it actually intrigues me more.
 
A

arab

Member
AkuMifune said:
Lois spends tons of time with the military. I'm sure she's had at least basic weapons training.

GAF's plot holes are anything they didn't bother to think more than a second about.
Click to expand...

right.
basic weapons training = alien technology expert
. i guess i should just accept that i'm wrong for finding that unbelievable in my comic book movies.
 
D

DrEvil

not a medical professional
Oh, and perhaps my biggest gripe with this film...



So, When supes finally snaps Zod's neck, he lets out a cry of anguish because he actually killed someone, and its in his moral code to not take lives.. but what about the hundreds, if not thousands of other people he and Zod killed while flying through the city, blowing up entire floors of office buildings, causing them to crash down on innocents in the street? Let alone the numerous airships Superman took out that crashed down onto crowded streets below, incinerating everyone? Where are your cries of anguish then, Clark?


Seriously.. it completely undermined the impact of his 'pain' after he did it.
 
M

Maninthemirror

Banned
greendomo's ghost said:
It's a flawed film, I'm sorry but that's a fact. If it wasn't there wouldn't be this level of complaints, from critics or people on this board. The numbers you're throwing out there are meaningless.

The general audience tends to be more forgiving because they are there to be entertained primarily, and so they can overlook a lot of the technical and creative side of the process. Critics generally take all of these things into account, which is why their scores are lower.

Also there's a big difference between asking someone, "So, what did you think?" right after they came out of the movie, and asking someone to write a detailed response to it. The more you delve into the problems, the more you see the weaknesses in the pacing, the writing, etc.

The opposite can also be true, some people watch it a second time and pick up things they missed before, and it can improve or lessen their opinion and enjoyment of the film.
Click to expand...

Thats me. I want to be entertained in the theater, if i expected a story worthy of an oscar but this is a comicbook movie where the themes and basic story suffices. Simple and true entertainment
 
stufte

stufte

Member
DrEvil said:
Oh, and perhaps my biggest gripe with this film...



So, When supes finally snaps Zod's neck, he lets out a cry of anguish because he actually killed someone, and its in his moral code to not take lives.. but what about the hundreds, if not thousands of other people he and Zod killed while flying through the city, blowing up entire floors of office buildings, causing them to crash down on innocents in the street? Let alone the numerous airships Superman took out that crashed down onto crowded streets below, incinerating everyone? Where are your cries of anguish then, Clark?


Seriously.. it completely undermined the impact of his 'pain' after he did it.
Click to expand...

This was exactly my beef with the movie, it made supes seem almost callous in his determination to stay "moral".
 
A

AkuMifune

Banned
arab said:
right.
basic weapons training = alien technology expert
. i guess i should just accept that i'm wrong for finding that unbelievable in my comic book movies.
Click to expand...

No, just that there are a lot more unbelievable things you could pick on. To focus on that one which has a few logical conclusions is silly.

But I think Scarlett Johansson as Black Widow is so inexplicably dumb that it makes me hate any of the Marvel films she's in, so I guess anyone can have dumb reasons for hating on things they find silly.
 
V

ViewtifulJC

Banned
Liquidsnake said:
The Jesus factor.

Yeah but it is part of his mythology. I am convinced it was at his conception as a comic character. So I accept it, and it actually intrigues me more.
Click to expand...

It really, really isn't. The only thing Jesus and Superman's stories have in common is that they're really powerful, they're nice guys, and came from the sky. Jor-El is not Space God, he doesn't send Superman to Earth to save us, it's because "oh shit the whole planet is blowing up quick send Kal-El to the only place he can be saved. He's not all divine and perfect either, his morals come from his great parents in Ma/Pa Kent. He's an inspiration to people, that morally, you too can be as good as Superman.

I think trying to force Superman into Jesus Christ metaphors really isn't a great idea. Just let the mothafucka be Superman and carry fat Lois around or whatever

ll.JPG
 
R

Raptor

Member
Matrix said:
What the heck, calm down. You made that comment about me earlier going through a mourning process like someone died in my family when I didn't and all I did was laugh at you. You know nothing of me either if we are going to play that game. All I said was you're pretty much the biggest Returns fan here, I never said it was in your top movies and why get so defensive when I say that? I fucking love John Carter and don't shit on people when they call it the worst crap made. I could care less if someone said you're the biggest John Carter fan on GAF, I'd be like awesome, damn right I am. I know Carter isn't a perfect film either.

Superman Returns has been out what for 7 years now, respected moreso than MOS? That wouldn't take much since MOS hasn't even been out a week. A better story? I'm not even gonna touch that since one is a reboot I haven't seen and the other is just a boring film.

I'll smile at the thought I'll never have to watch a cosplay Donner film ever again and MOS is a success so I can have future Superman films :)
Click to expand...

Seriously man, what's up with that? he seems mad out of nowhere.
 
M

Maninthemirror

Banned
DrEvil said:
Oh, and perhaps my biggest gripe with this film...



So, When supes finally snaps Zod's neck, he lets out a cry of anguish because he actually killed someone, and its in his moral code to not take lives.. but what about the hundreds, if not thousands of other people he and Zod killed while flying through the city, blowing up entire floors of office buildings, causing them to crash down on innocents in the street? Let alone the numerous airships Superman took out that crashed down onto crowded streets below, incinerating everyone? Where are your cries of anguish then, Clark?


Seriously.. it completely undermined the impact of his 'pain' after he did it.
Click to expand...

people were still in the buildings ? Plus he became superman 24 hours before, no experience.
 
K

KalBalboa

Banned
Liquidsnake said:
The Jesus factor.

Yeah but it is part of his mythology. I am convinced it was at his conception as a comic character. So I accept it, and it actually intrigues me more.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's warranted. But man, Man of Steel had one shot that beat you over the head with it as if you didn't have two brain cells to rub up against one another.
 
G

greendomo's ghost

Member
Maninthemirror said:
Thats me. I want to be entertained in the theater, if i expected a story worthy of an oscar but this is a comicbook movie where the themes and basic story suffices. Simple and true entertainment
Click to expand...

And that's totally fine!

But that doesn't mean there aren't flaws there, and as it's a critics job to delve into films, the flaws that are there can become more apparent and can change their opinion of a film beyond their initial gut reaction.

My disappointment stems from the fact that all the elements were there for it to have more than basic story and themes, but they didn't quite reach their goals.
 
B

Bit-Bit

Member
arab said:
right.
basic weapons training = alien technology expert
. i guess i should just accept that i'm wrong for finding that unbelievable in my comic book movies.
Click to expand...

Fuckin kids can play laser tags and actually hit each other. I guess they're all laser gun experts.
 
L

Liquidsnake

Banned
ViewtifulJC said:
It really, really isn't. The only thing Jesus and Superman's stories have in common is that they're really powerful, they're nice guys, and came from the sky. Jor-El is not Space God, he doesn't send Superman to Earth to save us, it's because "oh shit the whole planet is blowing up quick send Kal-El to the only place he can be saved. He's not all divine and perfect either, his morals come from his great parents in Ma/Pa Kent. He's an inspiration to people, that morally, you too can be as good as Superman.

I think trying to force Superman into Jesus Christ metaphors really isn't a great idea. Just let the mothafucka be Superman and carry fat Lois around or whatever
Click to expand...

I disagree. But that's cool. I think its very much part of his entire character. And I don't attach negative stigma with that. I just say oh cool yeah he kind of is our savior.
 
G

GuitarAtomik

Member
arab said:
iron man 3 is not a good super hero movie but i'm disappointed that the meh i feel for marvel movies now applies to superman.

how is
lois lane, master of kryptonian weaponry and expert marksman
not a plothole? where is there any scene from earlier in the movie that can explain that?
Click to expand...
It's a gun. Point and shoot.
It's not like she was sniping people from 100 yards.

arab said:
zod wants to terraform earth other than the fact that it's where they found kal. why can't they just terraform another planet like fucking mars?
Click to expand...
I could be wrong but
I'm pretty sure they mentioned that they had to find specific planets to terraform. If they could just terraform any planet they would have left Krypton before it exploded.
 
G

greendomo's ghost

Member
KalBalboa said:
Yeah, it's warranted. But man, Man of Steel had one shot that beat you over the head with it as if you didn't have two brain cells to rub up against one another.
Click to expand...

I think Superman Returns was more overt in the Jesus imagery. He was stabbed in the side, then he flies up into space, does the Jesus pose, falls to Earth. Then they even do the whole empty tomb analogy when they go to the hospital room and he's not there!!!

But yes there was that one scene in MoS where the framing of the shot was so on the nose it did make me scoff.
 
S

Shanlei91

Sonic handles my blue balls
DrEvil said:
Oh, and perhaps my biggest gripe with this film...



So, When supes finally snaps Zod's neck, he lets out a cry of anguish because he actually killed someone, and its in his moral code to not take lives.. but what about the hundreds, if not thousands of other people he and Zod killed while flying through the city, blowing up entire floors of office buildings, causing them to crash down on innocents in the street? Let alone the numerous airships Superman took out that crashed down onto crowded streets below, incinerating everyone? Where are your cries of anguish then, Clark?


Seriously.. it completely undermined the impact of his 'pain' after he did it.
Click to expand...
It was really ridiculous. A more Superman-like role of action would be
if he actually was struggling to fight the Kryptonians while ensuring that no one was hurt in the process. Saving people in between striking blows. But that would have made for more complicated scenes so the cop-out is to just have Superman not care.
 
D

DrEvil

not a medical professional
Maninthemirror said:
people were still in the buildings ? Plus he became superman 24 hours before, no experience.
Click to expand...

Considering they didn't abandon the daily planet offices, which was on at least the 20th floor, until buildings were literally crashing down around them, it's safe to assume those building would still have people in it.


Besides, during the 'second half' of Zod/Superman fight, they left the 'destroyed' part of Metropolis and started flying around in OTHER PARTS of Metropolis that hadn't seen any damage, just so they could do a virtual labryinth/maze first person view.. They still crashed through buildings (with lights on), that were also presumably filled with folks.


As for him 'just learning how to be superman' -- uh, he figured out most of his powers when he was younger. The only part he 'figured out' was how to fly, and by the time he fought Zod, he was doing pretty damned well (as evidenced by the film itself in the hour and a half prior to the fight) at it.

He was careless/reckless, and murdered a ton of people by proxy, there's no way around it really.
 
K

KalBalboa

Banned
greendomo's ghost said:
And that's totally fine!

But that doesn't mean there aren't flaws there, and as it's a critics job to delve into films, the flaws that are there can become more apparent and can change their opinion of a film beyond their initial gut reaction.

My disappointment stems from the fact that all the elements were there for it to have more than basic story and themes, but they didn't quite reach their goals.
Click to expand...

That's very true. There are many vertical slices of a better story in Man of Steel that unfortunately don't quite come together or breath the way they really should. Even average movie-goers, like the group of friends I went with, all commented about how disjointed it all felt, and none of us are exactly professional critics.

It's a movie that earns a discussion though, in that it did some stuff very right and other stuff not so well.
 
R

Raptor

Member
Kanik said:
It was really ridiculous. A more Superman-like role of action would be
if he actually was struggling to fight the Kryptonians while ensuring that no one was hurt in the process. Saving people in between striking blows. But that would have made for more complicated scenes so the cop-out is to just have Superman not care.
Click to expand...

That part of the city was almost if not completly deserted, buildings were empty because that World Engine was destroying everything.
 
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