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[Toa TAK]

Yeah, maybe some are trying to be liked by sculli or something.

I only felt boredom in that movie, well I feelt kinda bad for that dude with a clown on his skull because he only wanted to play some Piano.

Even with "no time to let a scene breath" I felt more with MoS.

Returns just plain sucks, there is no excuse for what Singer did.

Singer should've done X3.

 

[Neffarias_Bredd]

Both of us are making assumptions here. But of the two of us, I feel like I'm the one adhering more closely to what is actually seen in the movie. In the Faora scene you're complaining about, were we shown that any bystanders were killed or injured by Superman?

Do I actually think Superman was using X-ray vision through all of his fights to make sure no one was getting injured? No. But I think it's telling that the best retort you can muster against the argument is "Well they should have shown it!", while you make assumptions on things that are never shown.



Why?

Because it's never shown or even mentioned in the movies that superman does this, and yet I know how many millions of people live in large cities and work in massive office buildings. The idea that every single person evacuated and no one got hurt seems silly

 

[Can Crusher]

Yeah, maybe some are trying to be liked by sculli or something.

I only felt boredom in that movie, well I feelt kinda bad for that dude with a clown on his skull because he only wanted to play some Piano.

Even with "no time to let a scene breath" I felt more with MoS.

Returns just plain sucks, there is no excuse for what Singer did.

Visually emotional, and has a great score. When Superman is flying with Louis it was beautiful for example.

Everything else sucks about the movie, and I was ready to burn the theater after his son is revealed but the movie is gorgeous no doubt.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I started all that Supervillain talk, and then disappeared...

Regarding Doc Ock, I agree that he's pretty fun to watch, but we were talking about interesting characters, and there's nothing that interesting about him, as a character. He's Jeckyl/Hyde with the AI Arms causing the transformation. When he's in Evil mode, he's one-dimensional.

Still one of the top superhero movies, though.

 

[Raptor]

Visually emotional, and has a great score. When Superman is flying with Louis it was beautiful for example.

Everything else sucks about the movie, and I was ready to burn the theater after his son is revealed but the movie is gorgeous no doubt.

The score was all Williams nostalgia, and the Superman is flying with Lois already in the first Superman.

If Singer would have made an entire new stuff and be this emotional then all teh credit for him, with Returns everything that was trying to do was play with people's nostalgia.

At least Goyer/Nolan/Snyder had the balls to go with pure new stuff and that is more worthy of praise, that some thinks it sucks is another matter completly.

 

[JB1981]

Ottman's original pieces of score in Superman Returns are fantastic. It's not all Williams nostalgia.

 

[Eidan]

Well of course, it's a movie isn't it? It's supposed to show you what kind of character he is. By the same notion, I didn't see many people at all being killed by Kryptonians. Does that mean that only about 7 or 8 people actually die in the whole course of the movie?

I guess my ability to assume he didn't kill and injure anyone, outside of it just never being shown, is also largely based on the fact that his character had repeatedly shown a great level of concern for people, even when it went against his best interests.

Because it's never shown or even mentioned in the movies that superman does this, and yet I know how many millions of people live in large cities and work in massive office buildings. The idea that every single person evacuated and no one got hurt seems silly

Eh, we saw Supes and Zod fighting in an office building and it was completely abandoned. I can buy that no one was injured by Superman.

 

[Raptor]

Ottman's original pieces of score in Superman Returns are fantastic. It's not all Williams nostalgia.

You mean the WIlliams stuff he rearranged?

 

[Can Crusher]

At least Goyer/Nolan/Snyder had the balls to go with pure new stuff and that is more worthy of praise, that some thinks it sucks is another matter completly.

Actually no it isn't worthy of praise since Superman has been around forever and has gone through completely different styles more times than it's possible to count.

Other rebooted super hero movies have also had their style's changed, so I fail to see the breakthrough the trio did with Superman. If anything I would say WB and Singer were the one with the big balls, by making a sequel to the Donner movies.... 20 years later.

I guess my ability to assume he didn't kill and injure anyone, outside of it just never being shown, is also largely based on the fact that his character had repeatedly shown a great level of concern for people, even when it went against his best interests.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I didn't care about a single character in the film. So lazy was this script.

I don't get the adjective "lazy." They shoehorned so much into it that I can't get my head around that word as applied here. If anything, they were working too hard and should have let some stuff go or be simpler.

RE: The OST, since everyone is talking about it. I couldn't remember it at all, so when I went back the second time, I tried to pay attention to it a little. I couldn't. It just fades into the background. I certainly don't think that makes it a good OST, but not bad either. It's completely subservient to the film, which it should be. So forgettable that I couldn't in a milllion years recognize it elsehwere. So I don't really understand the love OR hare for it, unless you go to movies specifically for the music, which is silly.

 

[Eidan]

Other rebooted super hero movies have also had their style's changed, so I feel to see the breakthrough the trio did with Superman. If anything I would say WB and Singer were the one with the big balls, by making a sequel to the Donner movies.... 20 years later.

Yes, it takes real balls to try to cash in on nostalgia, and ape your predecessors.

While watching Superman Returns, all I could do was marvel at the bravery on display.

 

[Neffarias_Bredd]

I guess my ability to assume he didn't kill and injure anyone, outside of it just never being shown, is also largely based on the fact that his character had repeatedly shown a great level of concern for people, even when it went against his best interests.



Eh, we saw Supes and Zod fighting in an office building and it was completely abandoned. I can buy that no one was injured by Superman.

Guess we just have to agree to disagree.

I did really like how super powered the kryptonians felt. Faora decimating the soldiers in smallville was so cool. I kinda wish the movie could've been a little more violent tho. One thing the movie Immortals did right was when a god punched a mortal, they basically just exploded. Would've been cool to see the same thing here, although I totally understand why they didnt

 

[Raptor]

Actually no it isn't worthy of praise since Superman has been around forever and has gone through completely different styles more times than it's possible to count.

Other rebooted super hero movies have also had their style's changed, so I fail to see the breakthrough the trio did with Superman. If anything I would say WB and Singer were the one with the big balls, by making a sequel to the Donner movies.... 20 years later.

You did't got what I meant, I know SUperman has been around forever but not on movies, Singer didn't did anything new at all, Snyder did, again on a MOVIE.

 

[Can Crusher]

Yes, it takes real balls to try to cash in on nostalgia, and ape your predecessors.

It does take balls to make an old fashioned movie, a 20 year late sequel at that, where in the age of action extravaganza Superman doesn't throw a single punch. And they spent a 150 million on it too.

Nostalgia? Yeah, let's cut about half of the movie audience from the experience, who cares about this teens that fill up seats to see shit explode... So absolutely, it took balls.

You did't got what I meant, I know SUperman has been around forever but not on movies, Singer didn't did anything new at all, Snyder did, again on a MOVIE.

I agree, they did something new. But I'm not going to be all surprised they did something new after Returns bombed, and in this day and age where everybody was asking for Superman to wreck some shit. Throwing a bunch of special effects at the screen, explosions, etc etc isn't some mind blowing shit in this day and age.

 

[Mengy]

You're assuming Superman is killing or injuring people because there is extreme property damage in his fights. I'm assuming that Superman didn't kill or injure anyone because no one is ever shown being killed or injured. I gave you a half-assed explanation why, because that's what you seem to be looking for.

You are super reaching here Eidan.

All of my friends who have seen the movie were upset at the amount of innocents killed in Man of Steel. It has bothered lots of people who have seen the film, not just a few members here on GAF. They all think that lots of innocents died because the film doesn't lead you to believe otherwise, at all. In Avengers, you saw the team defending people, moving them to safety, evacuating areas, containing the damage. The movie went out of it's way to show you these things, so you got the message. MoS did none of that, and Superman himself showed zero concern for it.

During the terrorist attacks on 9-11, people had over half an hour to evacuate the twin towers, and yet how many people died when the buildings collapsed? Man of Steel tried very hard to be a realistic, serious Superman movie, so when Kal and Zod pummel each other through building after building, knocking them over and blowing things up, it's impossible for movie goers to not think about the reality of what is happening in the background during such chaos.

Like I said above, if there were scenes of anyone attempting to evacuate first, or save innocents, any scene like that at all, then it would be a moot discussion. As the movie is, the audience is led to believe that tens of thousands of people died during the climax.

It's just not what an audience going to watch a Superman movie wants to see. How heroic or inspiring is a sun God from another planet living here on Earth who has next to zero regard for human life when it's inconvenient for him? It's a huge disconnect from what the public wanted, and I'm very surprised that the people who made this movie never considered that while making it.

 

[vio]

He does tell some people to go inside, because it is not safe. I think before fight with Faora. Combination of Collateral damage and the fact that Supes led Zod to earth is a huge stupid fuck up. I wonder what a hell was Goyer smoking.

 

[JB1981]

You are super reaching here Eidan.

All of my friends who have seen the movie were upset at the amount of innocents killed in Man of Steel. It has bothered lots of people who have seen the film, not just a few members here on GAF. They all think that lots of innocents died because the film doesn't lead you to believe otherwise, at all. In Avengers, you saw the team defending people, moving them to safety, evacuating areas, containing the damage. The movie went out of it's way to show you these things, so you got the message. MoS did none of that, and Superman himself showed zero concern for it.

During the terrorist attacks on 9-11, people had over half an hour to evacuate the twin towers, and yet how many people died when the buildings collapsed? Man of Steel tried very hard to be a realistic, serious Superman movie, so when Kal and Zod pummel each other through building after building, knocking them over and blowing things up, it's impossible for movie goers to not think about the reality of what is happening in the background during such chaos.

Like I said above, if there were scenes of anyone attempting to evacuate first, or save innocents, any scene like that at all, then it would be a moot discussion. As the movie is, the audience is led to believe that tens of thousands of people died during the climax.

It's just not what an audience going to watch a Superman movie wants to see. How heroic or inspiring is a sun God from another planet living here on Earth who has next to zero regard for human life when it's inconvenient for him? It's a huge disconnect from what the public wanted, and I'm very surprised that the people who made this movie never considered that while making it.

Well argued. I'm coming around to seeing your point of view actually.

 

[Raptor]

It does take balls to make an old fashioned movie, a 20 year late sequel at that, where in the age of action extravaganza Superman doesn't throw a single punch. And they spent a 150 million on it too.

Nostalgia? Yeah, let's cut about half of the movie audience from the experience, who cares about this teens that fill up seats to see shit explode... So absolutely, it took balls.



I agree, they did something new. But I'm not going to be all surprised they did something new after Returns bombed, and in this day and age where everybody was asking for Superman to wreck some shit. Throwing a bunch of special effects at the screen, explosions, etc etc isn't some mind blowing shit in this day and age.

We got what we wanted after what? 30 years?

Singer for how much of a fan he is he didn't gave a fuck and made a sequel that nobody was asking for.

 

[Anton Sugar]

He does tell some people to go inside, because it is not safe. I think before fight with Faora. Combination of Collateral damage and the fact that Supes led Zod to earth is a huge stupid fuck up. I wonder what a hell was Goyer smoking.

"Go inside! We'll see you soon."

I don't really mind Superman leading Zod to Earth, but they didn't do anything interesting with that aspect. Maybe they'll explore it in the second movie.

What I did mind was that there is this onus of "purpose" on Clark/Superman, that he came to Earth for a reason, presumably to guide and protect humanity. However, humanity only needs him BECAUSE he arrived, not in spite of it.

 

[Scarecrow]

I can buy that those buildings were mostly abandoned. You see great masses of people bailing from Metropolis, specifically the areas near the gravity device. At least, the ones not caught in it then violently slammed into the ground. When Perry and creep guy are trying to rescue another character, you don't see a soul near them, either. It would have been better if they DID show a short shot sometime during the movie of Superman using his x-ray specs to scan for bystanders, though.

I'd love for them to exploit these complaints about the movie in the sequel, with Luthor using the destruction as a smear campaign against Superman.

 

[Zabka]

It's just not what an audience going to watch a Superman movie wants to see.

That's a pretty bold statement to make considering the commercial failure of Superman Returns.

 

[Anton Sugar]

I can buy that those buildings were mostly abandoned. You see great masses of people bailing from Metropolis, specifically the areas near the gravity device. At least, the ones not caught in it then violently slammed into the ground. When Perry and creep guy are trying to rescue another character, you don't see a soul near them, either. It would have been better if they DID show a short shot sometime during the movie of Superman using his x-ray specs to scan for bystanders, though.

I'd love for them to exploit these complaints about the movie in the sequel, with Luthor using the destruction as a smear campaign against Superman.

Creep? That's no way to talk about the best character in Dawn of the Dead.

 

[vio]

"Go inside! We'll see you soon."

I don't really mind Superman leading Zod to Earth, but they didn't do anything interesting with that aspect. Maybe they'll explore it in the second movie.

What I did mind was that there is this onus of "purpose" on Clark/Superman, that he came to Earth for a reason, presumably to guide and protect humanity. However, humanity only needs him BECAUSE he arrived, not in spite of it.

How are all people that lost someone suppose to forgive Superman that? How is everyone going to forgive him? I bet they will just ignore that in sequel and replace it with few collapsing structures and loud Zimmer music.

 

[Anton Sugar]

How are all people that lost someone suppose to forgive Superman that? How is everyone going to forgive him? I bet they will just ignore that in sequel and replace it with few collapsing structures and loud Zimmer music.

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying--I think the plot point of Superman bringing Zod to Earth is compelling, but they didn't do anything with it in MoS. I want to see more of humanity's reaction to Superman, of which we got very little.

 

[Toa TAK]

It's not like he did it on purpose.

 

[Divvy]

Spoiler

I think the destruction would have been more tolerable and forgiveable for people if they showed that Superman even remotely cared at all. I don't mean trying to lure Zod away or anything like that, but say after all the destruction, he could have showed some concern over his surroundings. I mean after the destruction of the ship and most of metropolis the first thing he does is make out with Lois in the flattened crater of the city. It's almost like they wanted to explicitly emphasize how little fucks he gave.

EDIT: Forgot this wasn't the spoiler thread

 

[vio]

I think it would have been better to show Superman reacting to destruction instead of kissing Lois. But then hey, how could he refuse?

 

[Anton Sugar]

It's not like he did it on purpose.

Never said that he did, but like vio said, do you think someone who lost a loved one would care about that? It puts Superman in a very difficult position and I hope they don't gloss over it.

I think the destruction would have been more tolerable and forgiveable for people if they showed that Superman even remotely cared at all. I don't mean trying to lure Zod away or anything like that, but say after all the destruction, he could have showed some concern over his surroundings. I mean after the destruction of the ship and most of metropolis the first thing he does is make out with Lois in the flattened crater of the city. It's almost like they wanted to explicitly emphasize how little fucks he gave.

This, too. Show Superman giving a fuck about humanity rather than just listening to his dad/adoptive dad/preacher's advice.

 

[Mengy]

That's a pretty bold statement to make considering the commercial failure of Superman Returns.

Commercial failure? Returns opened to a $52+ million weekend setting a WB record at the time, and made over $391 million internationally during its run. It might not be a great movie nor what a lot of people wanted in a Superman movie, but it was not a commercial failure.



Although honestly, I'm amazed it made that much, LOL.

 

[Zabka]

Commercial failure? Returns opened to a $52+ million weekend setting a WB record at the time, and made over $391 million internationally during its run. It might not be a great movie nor what a lot of people wanted in a Superman movie, but it was not a commercial failure.



Although honestly, I'm amazed it made that much, LOL.

Record for what? Warner Bros had the Matrix and Harry Potter franchises. If it was a success there would have been a sequel.

 

[Mengy]

Record for what? Warner Bros had the Matrix and Harry Potter franchises. If it was a success there would have been a sequel.

Record for biggest opening weekend of a Warner Brothers movie. There wasnt' a sequel because WB wanted to go a different direction, hence MoS out now.

 

[vio]

Guys i finally figured out the sequel. America is not going to accept or forgive Superman. Supes becomes Russian citizen. Goyer will be using Red Son as inspiration to write the "script". :/

 

[Matrix]

Visually emotional, and has a great score. When Superman is flying with Louis it was beautiful for example.

Again one day I will crack who Louis is!

I WILL FIND HIM!

 

[Raptor]

Again one day I will crack who Louis is!

I WILL FIND HER!

Fixed

 

[Zabka]

Record for biggest opening weekend of a Warner Brothers movie. There wasnt' a sequel because WB wanted to go a different direction, hence MoS out now.

Matrix Reloaded opened to 90 million in 2003. Harry Potter opened to 90 million in 2001.

 

[Matrix]

Fixed

Louis is a guys name lol

 

[Can Crusher]

Again one day I will crack who Louis is!

I WILL FIND HIM!

He's the movie version of Jimmy Olsen, but is changed to play the role of Lois from the comic books. So he's Louis, Superman's romantic interest in the movie verse.

 

[Can Crusher]

I'd love for them to exploit these complaints about the movie in the sequel, with Luthor using the destruction as a smear campaign against Superman.

"The world doesn't need Superman", dat slogan.

 

[Matrix]

He's the movie version of Jimmy Olsen, but is changed to play the role of Lois from the comic books. So he's Louis, Superman's romantic interest in the movie verse.

Actually Bosworth deserves to be called Louis instead of Lois. Forget my previous post hah

 

[Raptor]

Louis is a guys name lol

God damn!!

Who's is this guy then?

WE WILL FIND HIM!!!

 

[Eidan]

You are super reaching here Eidan.

All of my friends who have seen the movie were upset at the amount of innocents killed in Man of Steel. It has bothered lots of people who have seen the film, not just a few members here on GAF. They all think that lots of innocents died because the film doesn't lead you to believe otherwise, at all. In Avengers, you saw the team defending people, moving them to safety, evacuating areas, containing the damage. The movie went out of it's way to show you these things, so you got the message. MoS did none of that, and Superman himself showed zero concern for it.

During the terrorist attacks on 9-11, people had over half an hour to evacuate the twin towers, and yet how many people died when the buildings collapsed? Man of Steel tried very hard to be a realistic, serious Superman movie, so when Kal and Zod pummel each other through building after building, knocking them over and blowing things up, it's impossible for movie goers to not think about the reality of what is happening in the background during such chaos.

Like I said above, if there were scenes of anyone attempting to evacuate first, or save innocents, any scene like that at all, then it would be a moot discussion. As the movie is, the audience is led to believe that tens of thousands of people died during the climax.

It's just not what an audience going to watch a Superman movie wants to see. How heroic or inspiring is a sun God from another planet living here on Earth who has next to zero regard for human life when it's inconvenient for him? It's a huge disconnect from what the public wanted, and I'm very surprised that the people who made this movie never considered that while making it.

Fair enough. I'll cede that the movie should have shown Superman making a greater effort to contain the destruction.

All that destruction does set the movie up well for a sequel with Luthor though.

 

[Can Crusher]

Actually Bosworth deserves to be called Louis instead of Lois. Forget my previous post hah

I just don't understand why don't cast someone who is hot for Lois Lane. Come on man, Peter Parker hits heavier than Clark Kent in the movies.

Superman gotta up his game, he needs to get himself some of that James Bond swag.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Matrix Reloaded opened to 90 million in 2003. Harry Potter opened to 90 million in 2001.

From Wikipedia:

The film ranked at the top in its opening weekend, accumulating $52,535,096.[57] Within five days, Superman Returns took in $84.2 million, a new record for Warner Bros., beating out The Matrix Revolutions (2003), which has since been surpassed by The Dark Knight (2008)

So maybe it was a 5 day record, not opening weekend record?

 

[Fularu]

Terrible movie

Reboot please...

Lois was dreadfull, Superman was bad, Zod had no depth, the action (and scope of destruction) wasn't believable.

No emotion, no humour... And whenever I was laughing, it was at the movie..

I felt robbed out of 15$

Returns is 10 times better than this cgi fest

 

[Raptor]

I just don't understand why don't cast someone who is hot for Lois Lane. Come on man, Peter Parker hits heavier than Clark Kent in the movies.

Superman gotta up his game, he needs to get himself some of that James Bond swag.

Amy Adams is hot man

 

[Eidan]

It does take balls to make an old fashioned movie, a 20 year late sequel at that, where in the age of action extravaganza Superman doesn't throw a single punch. And they spent a 150 million on it too.

Nostalgia? Yeah, let's cut about half of the movie audience from the experience, who cares about this teens that fill up seats to see shit explode... So absolutely, it took balls.

No. That isn't balls. It's idiocy. Do you seriously think WB put that much money into a film that they believed would alienate primary movie going audiences? Every step of the way they thought they could re-tread old ground, and that it would be successful.

 

[Zabka]

From Wikipedia:



So maybe it was a 5 day record, not opening weekend record?

It did beat Matrix Revolutions (which only made $139) but not Reloaded. The numbers are right here:

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=daily&id=matrixreloaded.htm
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=daily&id=superman06.htm

 

[Can Crusher]

No. That isn't balls. It's idiocy. Do you seriously think WB put that much money into a film that they believed would alienate primary movie going audiences? Every step of the way they thought they could re-tread old ground, and that it would be successful.

Old ground? Dude superman II had people throwing bungaloos. The drama failed, Singer failed, the writer failed, the actors failed. All in varying degrees of course.

You can try rewrite history through GAF all you want, what is... is.

Amy Adams is hot man

Come on don't do this to yourself. Fucking Henry Cavil is hot, Amy Adams is... cute. She reminds me of the far hotter Isla Fisher, but what Superman needs is a Teri Hatcher.

Like a young Lois would be played by Jennifer Lawrence for example. But in MOS I wanted a Gemma Arterton or a Odette Annable... you know actresses who just grab your goddamn attention like the movie wasn't about anything else but staring at them.

 

[Eidan]

Old ground? Dude superman II had people throwing bungaloos. The drama failed, Singer failed, the writer failed, the actors failed. All in varying degrees of course.

You can try rewrite history through GAF all you want, what is... is.

I'm not understanding what you're trying to say. I'm saying that the decision to ape the Donner films was not a daring choice, but one made out of timidness and stupidity. Donner's style of Superman was the most well known to audiences, and was the most successful. There's nothing brave about trying to mimic it. But it was certainly stupid. What do bungaloos have to do with anything?

 

[JB1981]

Adams was definitely miscast but I wasn't completely unhappy with how her character was written, and I appreciated that she discovered Clark's identity through her reporting.