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Man of Steel |OT| It's about action.
- Thread starter MisterHero
- Start date
Didn't seem to when he
killed a bunch of them by launching Zod across town and into a gas station.
Fudgepuppy
Banned
Who was the audience supposed to connect with? Who was the main-character? Every expository dialogue was repeated atleast three times, telling the audience stuff they already knew.
On top of that, Superman didn't have any motivation or character arc. He just moped till he found the suit and decided he to do shit, basically.
I found it really weird towards the end, when you realize that Zod has more tragedy and interesting elements to him. This lead to an end-fight where the emotional core was all over the place, as Superman didn't have any build-up to that moment, and as you felt more sorry and sad for Zod's.
Normally, an end-fight should put you on the edge of your seat because you fear the villain and don't know if the hero is strong enough to beat him. Here it was basically the opposite where Zod was ravenous, distraught and at odds since he'd just learned his powers.
Although, I'm the reason these movies are made, so I paid for it, and I kinda enjoyed it, even if it was an incredibly thin script told in an incredibly clunky and inefficient way.
On top of that, Superman didn't have any motivation or character arc. He just moped till he found the suit and decided he to do shit, basically.
I found it really weird towards the end, when you realize that Zod has more tragedy and interesting elements to him. This lead to an end-fight where the emotional core was all over the place, as Superman didn't have any build-up to that moment, and as you felt more sorry and sad for Zod's.
Normally, an end-fight should put you on the edge of your seat because you fear the villain and don't know if the hero is strong enough to beat him. Here it was basically the opposite where Zod was ravenous, distraught and at odds since he'd just learned his powers.
Although, I'm the reason these movies are made, so I paid for it, and I kinda enjoyed it, even if it was an incredibly thin script told in an incredibly clunky and inefficient way.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Or when multiple skyscrapers toppled. Dude didn't give two fucks. BUT OH NO, NOT THOSE THREE RANDOMS ALL OF A SUDDEN! Shit Goyer, Lois was apparently right there, just use her instead you dumb fuck.
He spent the entire movie saving people. I took the scene you're talking about as a sign of his greeness more than anything. But to say he doesn't care about people is a leap.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Either Superman doesn't give a shit that his recklessness with Zod has killed thousands upon thousands of people, or he's really, really dumb and thinks everybody's okay.
He spent his life saving people;
oil rig, bus, soldiers in smallville, lois from the singularity, destroying the World Engine, snapping Zod's neck to put and end to the endless destruction.
X-ray vision. He saw that the coast was clear in every fight.
Matrix
LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world hed rather have. The problem is, Dwyanes not a woman.
And you cared about characters in Returns? give me a break lol break me off a piece of that bs bar.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Lois was everywhere in this film. My girlfriend actually asked at one point if Lois was a superhero too, because she seemed to get around easier than Clark did.
It's not much of a leap, because we never see Kal show any remorse or be cautionary in any way about innocents getting hurt. Sure we see him save Lois from falling, and we see him save a falling soldier in Smallville, but most of his rescues are before he dons the suit. Once he is Superman he seems to stop considering collateral damage at all.
Small spoilers follow, if you haven't seen MoS you may want to stop here.
A few simple small short scenes would have done WONDERS towards correcting this. Like after the Smallville fight, if Clark simply took a second or two to look around, sigh, and say to himself that he needs to be more careful, that would have fantastically shown that he is new to this and still learning how to be Superman. But we didn't get anything like that. Or before the big end fight when he is standing with the military and Lois and planning how to take down the world engine, if Clark had made just one suggestion to try and draw Zod away from Metropolis to and save damaging the city, or if he had suggested that the military evacuate as many civilians as they can before he goes after Zod, that would have been so great. Just a few seconds of dialogue could have shown so much character, it would have told the audience that he was at least thinking about innocent life. Instead, we got nothing like that. He instead charges into Smallville (his home town), and it is]/b] Clark who takes the fight TO Smallville, wrecking havoc and destroying things without concern, and it is Clark who levels half the city fighting Zod and never even attempts to take the fight away, nor show any concern or remorse for it, until the plot requires it as a story device when he breaks Zod's neck.
It's just poor writing with respect to the character of Superman that the movie is trying to portray. Pure and simple.
It's not a leap to say he didn't care because we never saw him caring, it just wasn't in the movie.
No, it is a leap to say he doesn't care, because as you mention in your own post, we are shown Clark caring about and saving people throughout the entire goddamn movie. During every Kryptonian fight, we are never shown any people dying from Superman's fights. To say that thousands were killed by him is ridiculous.
Fudgepuppy
Banned
There is a scene where they make a big fuzz about the civilians trying to get away from a falling scyscraper, with Superman not being there. Then, some minutes after, exactly the same thing happens after Superman and Zod go at it. You see people in the background, and the shot is almost exactly the same, showing that this tall building will fall and probably kill people, just how it happened when Superman wasn't there.
But Superman just walks towards Zod and says something, while you see the building in the background being incredibly unstable and dangerous.
You see; if they have a scene where they show much these people can get hurt when Superman isn't around, they should've showed what happened in the same kind of scenario when Superman is around.
VistraNorrez
Member
That's why it's bad writing and bad direction. They had Superman do all of those thing and then just decided to focus on
Zod and Superman punching each other
I stand by that the far more intense and tension filled final act would've been Supes
trying to save Metropolis and its citizens while Zod creates as much single-handed destruction as possible. It also would've been better for the Zod character. Zod wasn't coming anywhere close to killing Supes, it was silly. If he really wanted to hurt him, Zod should have directly gone after humans. There would've have been actual, relate-able stakes in this scenario. And when he finally catches Zod and kills him (by some way other than a necksnap) it would've been far more cathartic and sensible.The other ways they could have gone, which would not be that interesting to watch are, either he kills Zod right of the bat or moves the fight away civilization.
Did that building fall?
Which scene was that? Only one (empty) skyscraper falls in their fight and that's the one Superman barely escapes from.
You are incorrect
i wasn't lazy, Goyer said this script took the longest to write, out of all other scripts he had done.
I think the mistake was to try and fit too much in. They wanted to show Krypton, Clark's upbringing and struggles and then introduce Lois, Zod etc... I'm guessing they went the flashback approach instead of having the movie go on for 1 hour+ before Cavill came on screen..
In short, they tried to fit in too much (why script turned out a bit messy) and Snyder tried to create too big of a spectacle, to wow us..
The other complaints are just silly, like
'Superman kills Zod'
killing Zod
They cut the montage where he goes back in time by spinning around the earth and then everybody is alive again. It was meant to take place just before the ending, that's why Clark goes to work smiling and the city seems fine.
Well she was right. In the end, the manufactured Kryptonians were stagnant in their biology while Superman was a natural evolution that the Kryptonians have had in decades. He even adapted to Earth's geography.
It's been done, twice. Zod
flattened a square mile of the city. What more do you need?
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Two skyscrapers fell by my count. I know because I remember thinking 'again?' Maybe the first one was when the gravity machine was going before Supes got there and Perry White and company were running.
That one was from a military jet crashing into a building I believe. There's a bunch falling down at the point.
Can Crusher
Banned
Well to be fair, what she does say is that kryptonianos evolved beyond that. She is arguing that absence of morality is byproduct of evolution, and evolution always wins.
Neffarias_Bredd
Member
what was up with that scene in the church where Clark was talking to the priest? It was so cheesy people in my theatre were sniggering
I remember people laughing when the priest gulped.
Same here, which was the appropriate response given that it was played as a moment of comedy.
Can Crusher
Banned
Here's what, anybody who tries to twist just how reckless Superman is in this movie is wasting their time.
The proof is in the pudding folks. First time Superman is about to kick ass, he levels a factory(?), smashes zod through a gas store and explodes the gas container in the gas station. He even blows up the car that was there being filled up.
Now unless somebody is going to try to sell me the idea that somehow, he was X Raying all that stuff and there was nobody inside the car or inside the store.... or factory... I mean how do you even explain that? Where did the people go? Because if they weren't there then that's just plain weird man.
The proof is in the pudding folks. First time Superman is about to kick ass, he levels a factory(?), smashes zod through a gas store and explodes the gas container in the gas station. He even blows up the car that was there being filled up.
Now unless somebody is going to try to sell me the idea that somehow, he was X Raying all that stuff and there was nobody inside the car or inside the store.... or factory... I mean how do you even explain that? Where did the people go? Because if they weren't there then that's just plain weird man.
He was X-raying everything.
Neffarias_Bredd
Member
They really should have shown a scene of him doing that if it's what they wanted us to believe. Everyone I was with assumed he was killing people
He was definitely reckless there is no doubt of that, but this was also the first time he was fighting foes who are his physical equal so I give him a little leeway.
There's a good shot of him looking pretty nervous as he walks down that road in the center of town. This was probably the first real fight he's ever been in.
There's a good shot of him looking pretty nervous as he walks down that road in the center of town. This was probably the first real fight he's ever been in.
Can Crusher
Banned
Yeah right, that is in the movie right? You didn't imagine that in your head, the movie showed you/told you that he was X Raying people.
Come on.. Next post you're gonna tell me Man of Steel's 2 plot will be about all the missing people, and Batman will show up.
That's what I think too, but I think they should've tried to balance things out and make an effort to show the superhero, and not just the super.
Gas tanks everywhere in the way !
Each time Superman wasn't destroying a building, he was throwing Zod into a gas tank... In the store, a gas tank train, a gas tank truck in Metropolis,...
RustyNails
Member
Superman also
accidently blows up that gas station by kamikazing Zod through it. Think of all the grandmas that were incinerated inside.
Has to be the worst scene in the entire movie. I understood why it's there, but Zack Snyder show's his dumbassery but screwing it up.
Did the movie show you people getting blown up or injured because of Superman's fight?
Can Crusher
Banned
Ohhhh I get it.
So since the movie doesn't show it it's whatever we want right? Hey I got a new one. Superman has a secret power they didn't show us, he can teleport people around him to other places. That's why nobody ever got hurt by something he did, playboy knows magic.
I love your posts. Neva stop.
You're assuming Superman is killing or injuring people because there is extreme property damage in his fights. I'm assuming that Superman didn't kill or injure anyone because no one is ever shown being killed or injured. I gave you a half-assed explanation why, because that's what you seem to be looking for.
Anton Sugar
Member
Could be the worst scene in the movie.
Can Crusher
Banned
Right I and almost everybody assumes it because the level of destruction makes it highly improbable that no one got hurt. That assumption is aided by the fact that the movie didn't show us Superman being careful nor did it show us a Superman using his X Ray to show the audience he isn't just being reckless.
I don't know I mean, Superman decided that a coffee shop with people in it was the best place to land Faroa's ass and pick up a fight with her. I mean.... since you like explaining what the movie didn't, what am I supposed to take away from that one? He just wanted to show his childhood friend he now had a cape? Show him how fast he could get his ass kicked by Faroa...
You assume because you believe you understand the nature of the character yet this an origins movie that didn't present that. And believing something that defies logic, just because the opposite isn't shown is a highway into believing anything you want.
In essence I can believe whatever I want as long as the movie doesn't show me the opposite happened. That doesn't work man. If nobody got hurt, then there were a whole lot of people missing and that's just weird because what happened to all the people?
Neffarias_Bredd
Member
For me, it's an astronomically bigger leap to assume that Superman was X-ray-ing everything
Can Crusher
Banned
To be fair, they have said other super heroes exist in this world. So maybe The Flash evacuated all those people.
Anton Sugar
Member
I think "people only die if you see them die" is a strange rule to go by. I feel like there was a good article on this, but the portrayal or value of life in superhero movies (or blockbusters, rather--Into Darkness is another culprit) with mass destruction is problematic.
Also, yes, I agree that it is a big leap to assume Superman is x-raying all the buildings.
LOL really? I feel like an idiot most of the time.
But I do think that Snyder's Superman could have used a bit more awareness of collateral damage. It really just didn't feel as heroic when he was contributing just as much to the wanton destruction as Zod and his companions were.
Both of us are making assumptions here. But of the two of us, I feel like I'm the one adhering more closely to what is actually seen in the movie. In the Faora scene you're complaining about, were we shown that any bystanders were killed or injured by Superman?
Do I actually think Superman was using X-ray vision through all of his fights to make sure no one was getting injured? No. But I think it's telling that the best retort you can muster against the argument is "Well they should have shown it!", while you make assumptions on things that are never shown.
Why?
Can Crusher
Banned
Pretty incredible that you remember the exact name of store, but can't remember the amount of options Superman had to land her ass. Hell he could've even floored her in that greenfield (cornfield?) that he passes by.
But he's so considerate of people's lives he decided to take the fight to a restaurant. YAY
Well of course, it's a movie isn't it? It's supposed to show you what kind of character he is. By the same notion, I didn't see many people at all being killed by Kryptonians. Does that mean that only about 7 or 8 people actually die in the whole course of the movie?
Yeah, maybe some are trying to be liked by sculli or something.
I only felt boredom in that movie, well I feelt kinda bad for that dude with a clown on his skull because he only wanted to play some Piano.
Even with "no time to let a scene breath" I felt more with MoS.
Returns just plain sucks, there is no excuse for what Singer did.
ITS INCREDIBLE
Anton Sugar
Member
It's like a koan. If a skyscraper falls in a city with no one to see, did anyone die?