-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Man of Steel |OT| It's about action.
- Thread starter MisterHero
- Start date
Nope. Lois potentially had info on Kal-El that could have been useful to Zod
Anton Sugar
Member
These are pretty cheesy but this one has some good bits:
I hope Superman, after being told his secret purpose was to save humanity, facepalmed himself around the world.
I have to pick, nitpick and tear apart this movie. Tear apart!
And then leave the movie midway out of the theater so I can complain some more about how I JUST CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE.
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
I kind of wish they hadn't made such a big deal that he had to keep his powers a secret
because of how the world would react (to the point where papa Kent lousily gives his life to keep the secret). It made the reveal feel abrupt and the sacrifice seem more stupid and pointless.
Your taste is.. curious lol
Yeah I don't get it either. I thought all the Spiderman movies were utter garbage. Couldn't stand Tobey Maguire or Kirsten Dunst.
edit: ok maybe utter garbage is a bit harsh. But I didn't like them.
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
None of us have perfect taste.
But they read Kal-El's mind anyway. What info could Lois have on him that he wouldn't have himself?
The ending is a reenactment of the crucifixion through Jesus' death and resurrection.
Edited to remove "pretty much" after finding this interview with Singer while looking for a different one: http://www.dove.org/news.asp?ArticleID=97
Bryan Singer said:
Also Mary was the Immaculate Conception. Jesus was the Virgin Birth.
But they read Kal-El's mind anyway. What info could Lois have on him that he wouldn't have himself?
Insurance in case they couldn't break Kal
Meus Renaissance
Member
I think you will enjoy this
Its nonstop action, punches and screams for as many hours as you want.
No lame stuff like levity, heart or characterization.
Meus Renaissance
Member
I think you will enjoy this
Its nonstop action, punches and screams for as many hours as you want.
No lame stuff like levity, heart or characterization.
I think its fair to say some people aren't looking for a story with heart in these films - they pay that ticket price to see shit being fucked up Raid style but on a superhuman level.
I wasn't really trying to demonstrate that MoS is a masterpiece. My main concern was addressing the debate Returns > MoS for its pointlessness and show a couple of instances in which MoS script undeniably proves to be much more than your typical summer flick: when I said that Hollywood blockbuster movies are movies only in name, I meant that these high budgeted roller coasters are structured in a very orthodox, unoriginal, predictable way. They make the story streamlined so everyone can understand it, they throw a couple of good jokes so they will distract people from plot-holes and from the boredom of clichéd characters, they pull some state-of-the-art trailer and they get hundreds of millions of dollars because the summer movie is now more a ritual then a pleasure.
In MoS you have a constant time-line jump worth of an Inarritu movie or the worst seasons of Lost , you don't get fed with an explanation for every single thing that happens on the screen, and you realize only after the movie is over and you are reminiscing it in your head, that Clark's father came up with "maybe you should have let them die" and Superman came up with "Krypton had its chance". It's a lot to take in and I get it: some people felt like they didn't need to be jerked around like this and just wanted FX, smooching in mid-air, IMAX panoramas and a more McGyver approach to combat: for example by neutralizing enemies with his slapstick-commercial-level-of-ridiculous freeze breath, or overheating the enemy armours so that they would discard them and succumb to earth atmosphere, or bringing the conflict to a sudden end by using the X-ray vision on Zod and revealing to his troops that he wears slips spelling "this belongs to Faora" under his suit.
But I think that it goes to MoS merit to not have chosen the beaten path and delivered a great ride nonetheless.
In MoS you have a constant time-line jump worth of an Inarritu movie
or the worst seasons of Lost , you don't get fed with an explanation for every single thing that happens on the screen, and you realize only after the movie is over and you are reminiscing it in your head, that Clark's father came up with "maybe you should have let them die" and Superman came up with "Krypton had its chance". It's a lot to take in and I get it: some people felt like they didn't need to be jerked around like this and just wanted FX, smooching in mid-air, IMAX panoramas and a more McGyver approach to combat: for example by neutralizing enemies with his slapstick-commercial-level-of-ridiculous freeze breath, or overheating the enemy armours so that they would discard them and succumb to earth atmosphere, or bringing the conflict to a sudden end by using the X-ray vision on Zod and revealing to his troops that he wears slips spelling "this belongs to Faora" under his suit. But I think that it goes to MoS merit to not have chosen the beaten path and delivered a great ride nonetheless.
Thanks! I'm happy to have joined you all in the sun
To be more specific: I considered the fact that Lois doesn't notice him less like a justification and more of a foretelling of his daily life in Metropolis. I don't think they are going to milk the Clark persona for the entire trilogy: judging from the way things are shaping up, I wouldn't be surprised if the next movie is going to be about Luthor becoming Superman's friend, Judas his ass, reveal his true identity and then unleash Doomsday on him to finish the job. And of course the third movie is going to be some horrible Spiderman 3 non-sense with Steel, Super Boy and Super Girl, to showcase the new characters and profit Marvel-style on second-tier comic book heroes.
The sequence when Clark enters the church is told back to back with the sequence when he gets beat up (right in front of his father's shop nonetheless LOL).
The camera insist on the face of the aggressor and the reason for his aggression aren't explained, meaning the perpetrator was more important then the motive. After that Jonathan tells him that he can't reveal his true identity, because people can't take it. At this point Clark has received the ultimatum from Zod and is now debated whether or not to break the unspoken promise that got Jonathan killed. So he detective-gaf the high school bully, and tracks him to his church with the intention of enjoying the petty feeling of revenge by telling right to his abuser's face that he's "the guy they are looking for on TV", revealing his true identity to one of the very people that, by his father's account, won't ever accept him. The priest starts to connect the dots and tries to feel better about himself by giving Clark advice, at which Clark answers with a bit of smack because of the bitterness still lingering inside him, saying that he can't trust Zod but he can't trust humans either.
We already knew Clark was bullied, we didn't need another sequence about it, and there is no point for wedging in a new character out of the blue when Clark has already his mother to turn to for matters of faith. There really is no reason for that priest to be in the script unless he's the bully.
The camera insist on the face of the aggressor and the reason for his aggression aren't explained, meaning the perpetrator was more important then the motive. After that Jonathan tells him that he can't reveal his true identity, because people can't take it. At this point Clark has received the ultimatum from Zod and is now debated whether or not to break the unspoken promise that got Jonathan killed. So he detective-gaf the high school bully, and tracks him to his church with the intention of enjoying the petty feeling of revenge by telling right to his abuser's face that he's "the guy they are looking for on TV", revealing his true identity to one of the very people that, by his father's account, won't ever accept him. The priest starts to connect the dots and tries to feel better about himself by giving Clark advice, at which Clark answers with a bit of smack because of the bitterness still lingering inside him, saying that he can't trust Zod but he can't trust humans either.
We already knew Clark was bullied, we didn't need another sequence about it, and there is no point for wedging in a new character out of the blue when Clark has already his mother to turn to for matters of faith. There really is no reason for that priest to be in the script unless he's the bully.
I think you will enjoy this
Its nonstop action, punches and screams for as many hours as you want.
No lame stuff like levity, heart or characterization.
Fuck that I'm not paying an exuberant amount of money to have to participate in a faux interactive scenario.
The last time I did that was watching avatar in 3d.
Shamrock7r
Member
Treefingers
Member
I actually cared 1000 times more for the wellbeing of
that dog
Matrix
LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world hed rather have. The problem is, Dwyanes not a woman.
Ugh the kid and Bosworth. Close to Dean Cain levels.
It really is sad that it took the kid all of two seconds to figure it out lol and the Donner version of Lois still never does, well since her memory was messed with ugh that stupid kiss.
Anton Sugar
Member
I think this really sums up how I feel about the movie in general. It's close to being really good, even great, but there's something off about every aspect.
I DO think Zack Snyder is talented (I know others have hopped on the "hack" train), but I still don't know the extent of his talent and where it lies.
It actually looks pretty good yes. I'm not being negative towards it at all.
I'm waiting for a pricedrop myself (because I have too many fighting games and I suck at all of them lol)
DerZuhälter
Member
Just took a look at Spiderman's intro. It takes Sam Raimi 20 minutes to introduce all major players, characterize them slightly and have Pete's and Norman's transformations.
At that point we haven't even seen the lead actor in Man of Steel.
DedalusJoyce
Member
Regarding his identity. What do you guys make of the scene after the small like fight. Superman is back home standing and hugging martha when Lois arrives in the police car. You can clearly see the officer standing there looking at everything, makes zero sense.
Also annoying how they fall out of outer space and always manage to land close to where they need to be for the next scene.
Also annoying how they fall out of outer space and always manage to land close to where they need to be for the next scene.
Matrix
LeBron loves his girlfriend. There is no other woman in the world hed rather have. The problem is, Dwyanes not a woman.
You can't compare the speed of Spidey's teenage origin story to that have of Superman's if you're telling each one's origin from the start. Heck MOS could have taken even longer to introduce Cavill if they actually showed the ship crash and the Kent's finding him etc
Doesn't even make sense and did you ever watch Superman the movie? It's not like Reeve showed up right away.
Doesn't even make sense and did you ever watch Superman the movie? It's not like Reeve showed up right away.
This is how the movie should have been
First Act: Keep most of the Krypton sequences the same, maybe get rid of Lara. She's not a good actress anyway. Jor-El bypasses the Codex to create Kal in the birth pod, Zod and his buddies go after him, he escapes and manages to launch Kal to planet earth. Krypton crumbles due to the unstable core .. (Zod manages to get away cause he's richer than Jor-El and has a bigger ship)
Second Act: Clark is hobo and is trying to find his true identity, looking for clues to his origin being drawn to strange phenomena or incidents. Finds part of his launch vehicle in antartica, finds the suit, puts it on and first tries some snowboarding on the ice to the tune of some pop music. (Pa Kent is claimed by cancer and not by a fucking dog) He returns to smallville, finding his purpose is to be "the protector". Louis is close on Clarke's trail but doesnt discover his true identity.
Third Act: Zod shows up, doesnt cause so much destruction. He just takes up Trump Tower and takes the city hostage. Supes along with the help of military (skyflying) along with him throws a wrench in Zod's plan. The final battle is between Zod and Supes who keep juggling Louis around (she finds his true identity now) and during the fight Zod overpowers Supes but Zod's ship is about to go nukilar, suddently the good side dawns on him (ala DOC OCK) and he creates a portal and takes the ship along with him into it. Then just as the portal is about to close, he falls back and Supes catches him. Later on Supes, Louis and Zod all go to the nearest shawarma place.
First Act: Keep most of the Krypton sequences the same, maybe get rid of Lara. She's not a good actress anyway. Jor-El bypasses the Codex to create Kal in the birth pod, Zod and his buddies go after him, he escapes and manages to launch Kal to planet earth. Krypton crumbles due to the unstable core .. (Zod manages to get away cause he's richer than Jor-El and has a bigger ship)
Second Act: Clark is hobo and is trying to find his true identity, looking for clues to his origin being drawn to strange phenomena or incidents. Finds part of his launch vehicle in antartica, finds the suit, puts it on and first tries some snowboarding on the ice to the tune of some pop music. (Pa Kent is claimed by cancer and not by a fucking dog) He returns to smallville, finding his purpose is to be "the protector". Louis is close on Clarke's trail but doesnt discover his true identity.
Third Act: Zod shows up, doesnt cause so much destruction. He just takes up Trump Tower and takes the city hostage. Supes along with the help of military (skyflying) along with him throws a wrench in Zod's plan. The final battle is between Zod and Supes who keep juggling Louis around (she finds his true identity now) and during the fight Zod overpowers Supes but Zod's ship is about to go nukilar, suddently the good side dawns on him (ala DOC OCK) and he creates a portal and takes the ship along with him into it. Then just as the portal is about to close, he falls back and Supes catches him. Later on Supes, Louis and Zod all go to the nearest shawarma place.
Yeah, I'm ok with him skiing instead of snowboarding. I've taken most of his punches away, skiing is not gonna hurt his image.
DerZuhälter
Member
That would have been fine with me, instead we get some scenes that be considered action climaxes in smaller movies, circling around an item called "Codex" we know nothing about until half of the movie.
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
nvm
One thing that annoys me about this movie that I just thought is something that actually annoys me about the Superman mythos in general and that how almost inconsequential Clark's mothers are. Lara, of course, is always just "the one who holds the baby," which I'm willing to let slide since the El's are mostly just there to die. But with Martha it always feels so weird that she doesn't play a bigger role in some these stories. It's always Jonathan that's talking to Clark and instilling values and helping and Martha is just off baking pies.
Man of Steel tries to give her a role - the scene in the school, the moment when Clark returns home - but there were still so many missed opportunities, and as usual, they were missed because the writers were so obsessed with this father/son story. Two big ones stick out in my mind. One: "Why isn't she there when Jonathan reveals the spaceship?" That's a huge moment in her adoptive son's life and she's just missing from it. The second, and the bigger, one is
I'm reminded of "Birthright." That story also had Pa Kent being very apprehensive about Clark revealing homself (for different reasons, mind you), but managed to counterbalance that by having Martha be really supportive and encouraging. She helps make and design the suit, and Clark confides in her as he's learning more about his heritage (which, granted, MoS has a small moment like that). She even gets into UFO's and alien conspiracy stuff because she wants to see if she can unlock some clues about his origins (and it becomes fun for her; I think Pa mentions something about them trying to break into Area 51). It really fleshed out Martha and actually helped add some weight to what Jonathan was going through.
Now I'm thinking about all that and I'm wondering why MoS didn't try any of this. People keep complaining that the Kents didn't provide Clark's moral fiber and and saying the Kents pushed him into hiding and I'm just like, "Uh. Jonathan did all that. Martha didn't do much of anything." Which is such a missed opportunity; they could have had Martha being the one whose proud of Clark for saving people and encourages him. She could have been the optimistic one who thought it wouldn't be so bad for him to reveal himself. When Jonathan is suggesting maybe Clark should let kids die, she could have been there to smack him upside the head and say no. She could have been the parent who gave him hope (again, the school scene was great; "Listen to my voice, pretend it's an island" in other words, focus on your mother, someone who loves and cares about you, and overcome this pain that way. good stuff), and maybe supported and helped Jonathan come to grips with the fact that Clark can't hide forever.
I'm just spitballing as usual, but it just sucks that they didn't care to do anything with Martha.
Man of Steel tries to give her a role - the scene in the school, the moment when Clark returns home - but there were still so many missed opportunities, and as usual, they were missed because the writers were so obsessed with this father/son story. Two big ones stick out in my mind. One: "Why isn't she there when Jonathan reveals the spaceship?" That's a huge moment in her adoptive son's life and she's just missing from it. The second, and the bigger, one is
"Why does she have no say in whether or not Jonathan kills himself?" Now, with the second one I get that they obviously didn't have a big family discussion during a freaking tornado. However, there's so much focus on what Jonathan's decision means for Clark that the movie almost forgets "Hey, Martha a widow now...even though her husband really didn't have to die." And there's no closure for her in that simply because the movie doesn't really give a fuck about her.
I'm reminded of "Birthright." That story also had Pa Kent being very apprehensive about Clark revealing homself (for different reasons, mind you), but managed to counterbalance that by having Martha be really supportive and encouraging. She helps make and design the suit, and Clark confides in her as he's learning more about his heritage (which, granted, MoS has a small moment like that). She even gets into UFO's and alien conspiracy stuff because she wants to see if she can unlock some clues about his origins (and it becomes fun for her; I think Pa mentions something about them trying to break into Area 51). It really fleshed out Martha and actually helped add some weight to what Jonathan was going through.
Now I'm thinking about all that and I'm wondering why MoS didn't try any of this. People keep complaining that the Kents didn't provide Clark's moral fiber and and saying the Kents pushed him into hiding and I'm just like, "Uh. Jonathan did all that. Martha didn't do much of anything." Which is such a missed opportunity; they could have had Martha being the one whose proud of Clark for saving people and encourages him. She could have been the optimistic one who thought it wouldn't be so bad for him to reveal himself. When Jonathan is suggesting maybe Clark should let kids die, she could have been there to smack him upside the head and say no. She could have been the parent who gave him hope (again, the school scene was great; "Listen to my voice, pretend it's an island" in other words, focus on your mother, someone who loves and cares about you, and overcome this pain that way. good stuff), and maybe supported and helped Jonathan come to grips with the fact that Clark can't hide forever.
I'm just spitballing as usual, but it just sucks that they didn't care to do anything with Martha.
DerZuhälter;68151321 said:
Avengers had a huge action scene at the very start of the movie about this magic cube which, if you didn't watch Captain America (which many people didnt), you had no clue about only that it was important. Hell Avengers doesn't even get all of its actors together until 1 hour into the movie and working as a team till 40 minutes from the end of the movie.
That's just how it goes.
And in no way were Jor-El scenes action climaxes, not even in smaller movies.
Meus Renaissance
Member
Messypandas
Member
Why? The canyon and open fields flyover conveyed the beauty and joyous quality of first flight pretty good. The propulse lift off is just a new interpretation, but I admit it bothered me in Avengers when Thor would take off like a cut-out screengrab moving out of frame. Didn't look organic at all.
kunonabi
Member
Smallville did a pretty good job with his relationships to his mothers actually. The scene where they reveal his first word was Lara being a favorite of mine. Honestly, The Clark/Jonathan/Martha trio was the best and most important of the show early on despite them pushing the Clark/Lex/Lana dynamic as the driving force of the show.
DerZuhälter
Member
You are comparing MoS with the Avengers now? First off: Since the Avengers is a "team-based" movie it's clear that there is no single protagonist and introducing several persons takes usually longer than introducing one single lead.
And no, the opening of Avengers isn't good either. Bar the fact that it looks like the opening of a shabby TV-show, cinematography wise speaking, it's tainted by similar problems that thankfully through narration of Sam Jackson gets solved a lot quicker than in MoS.
And the opening is not a action climax to you? In 20 minutes we get presented with a birth, heist and escape, fist-fights and a stabbing all framed by several explosions and gun fire, before finishing it of with a prison sentencing and an explosion of a planet.
Maybe it's me and my lack of ADD... that's probably my fault.
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
After a second viewing I can say I still like it, but the silly stuff becomes a bit sillier.
have you really never heard of an empty casket?
Okay, that's a load of crap because there are well thought out stories about people flying in suits. Superman is in a lot of them.
The subject matter of the movie is not an excuse for subpar storytelling. I kinda agree on the realism because, you do have to allow for some suspension of disbelief being it's a superhero. But refusing to wave away the movies problems just because "lol superheroes" isn't being dumb; it's just asking for a good story.
Although I'm one of ones who really enjoyed man of steel, I really hate it when people make these kind of excuses for a poorly made movie.
lazybones18
Banned
Did my American duty and saw the movie....again. The supposed extended cut....I must see it
From HotToy's facebook page...
Is that.... a.. TOY?
Oh god I was born in the wrong decade
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
If that is a toy, it's freaky.