NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I'm excited to see it, but I think I'll subconsciously walk in expecting it to suck now.
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Man of Steel |OT| It's about action.
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Bobby Roberts
Banned
The Superman in this movie is all self-doubts and weaknesses. Just because he got thrown through a couple buildings doesn't negate that.
He's not invincible at all.
and complaining about CGI in a superhero movie by 2013 is just cheapshot bullshit. Of course they're CGI buildings. What are you even complaining about at that point.
He's not invincible at all.
and complaining about CGI in a superhero movie by 2013 is just cheapshot bullshit. Of course they're CGI buildings. What are you even complaining about at that point.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
TheHeretic
Banned
The stuff with Kevin Costner was great, the rest is as I described. There's no character study on Superman here, just going through the motions to get the part where they spend 100 million on visual effects because that's what qualifies as entertainment now. There was no sense of danger with those battle scenes, the dude levelled half a city with no consequence whatsoever.
Acrylic7
Member
Pretty much.
And the flashbacks.......
Half the damn movie was flashbacks.
I would have given anything to replace that and Loise with Lex and his fixation with Superman and then using Zod to better unerstand Superman. Anything would have been better than what we got.
Swing and a miss.
metalslimer
Member
I liked it as a summer action blockbuster. A good 6/10 movie that can have a great sequel. However, the script was so god awful outside the beginning. Overall though I enjoyed the action in the movie and it was probably the greatest CGI I've seen in a film. However, the movie ended up being completely different than I expected. I was expecting a much deeper look into Superman and not through dumb flashbacks.
Heart Attack
Member
I'm back. I'll post more detailed impressions later and talk about what I felt worked and what didn't, but in general I was disappointed. The movie turned out to be everything I feared from the initial trailers and director/writer choices. The positive vibes I felt from the more recently promotional material turned out to be huge red herrings. Meh.
On a lighter note, it was hilarious to see how much of the Jon Peters crap Kevin Smith mentioned years ago was in the film:
- Polar bears
- Cute robot sidekick
- Doors opening like King Kong
- Eyes of a violent caged animal, a fucking killer
- Giant fucking spider
Yeaaaaaaaaaah.
Punchline. The movie is decent, but it could had been much more.
Maninthemirror
Banned
GA has spoken over critics
Imdb: 8.4 with nearly 30k votes
Rottentomatoes 8.2 with 81,000 votes
Metacritic: 8.8 with 317 ratings
Yahoo users : 4/5 with 400 reviews
Twitter index: 8 in 10 were positive on the movie
http://www.boxoffice.com/statistics/analysis/twitter
Imdb: 8.4 with nearly 30k votes
Rottentomatoes 8.2 with 81,000 votes
Metacritic: 8.8 with 317 ratings
Yahoo users : 4/5 with 400 reviews
Twitter index: 8 in 10 were positive on the movie
http://www.boxoffice.com/statistics/analysis/twitter
Time to post more detailed thoughts:
I really appreciate what Zack Snyder wanted to do with the film. I love the vision behind it, and it's easy to see that everyone was trying their best to make a different Superman movie. I'll give it full marks for effort. Unfortunately it's also clear that he's in way over his head. Having never made a serious movie of this sort before which relies more on characterization that just spamming cool stuff on screen, his inexperience shows. The editing in the first half of the film is abysmally poor. Scenes are poorly connected, the chronological rearrangement removes depth and development from characters, and the lack of context makes it hard to care for any of the characters early on. Instead of feeling like a smart non-chronological origin story, it just felt disjointed and messy. This misstep hurts the rest of the movie badly, because when the foundation is weak in a serious film, everything that follows starts to crumble.
While Snyder carries a lot of the blame for the poor execution, I think a substantial amount of fault also lies on Goyer. The script is a muddled mess, and for every great idea (like making Krypton a more fantasy-like world and culture) there are a handful of awful redundant garbage which bogs the film down (like everything involving genetics in the film). The relationships are weak, most of the character arcs are shallow, and yet the script wallows in them like they are a strong driving force and motivation for everything else. Really bizarre choice. There's so much "look at me, I'm a SERIOUS movie", it's hard not to look deeper into every scene, only to see that often there's nothing there, or that the message doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
I really liked the individual isolated character moments which did work. Some of Clark's childhood scenes are really well realized and shot, and stand out on their own. They don't really work that well as part of the larger movie, but I really liked some of the moments themselves. The action was also really impressive until it goes right into videogame territory at the very end. The depiction of the Kryptonians and the flight sequences were really cool, and there was a real sense of speed and force when they create impact on the environment or each other. Some of the fights in the middle of the movie were actually enjoyable to watch and felt well planned. The climax was like Kingdom Hearts 2 x Metal Gear Rising though. I guess it's the coolest Superman videogame boss battle I've ever seen, but for a movie it's kinda silly.
But in the end, I think what left the worst taste in my mouth was how the final fight ended. I can't really discuss it without spoiling so....
I'll give the movie 6.5/10 maybe, and only because I feel bad for Snyder that he failed because of his shortcomings and not because of actual poor decisions. His heart was in the right place, he just lacked the skill and experience for it.
I really appreciate what Zack Snyder wanted to do with the film. I love the vision behind it, and it's easy to see that everyone was trying their best to make a different Superman movie. I'll give it full marks for effort. Unfortunately it's also clear that he's in way over his head. Having never made a serious movie of this sort before which relies more on characterization that just spamming cool stuff on screen, his inexperience shows. The editing in the first half of the film is abysmally poor. Scenes are poorly connected, the chronological rearrangement removes depth and development from characters, and the lack of context makes it hard to care for any of the characters early on. Instead of feeling like a smart non-chronological origin story, it just felt disjointed and messy. This misstep hurts the rest of the movie badly, because when the foundation is weak in a serious film, everything that follows starts to crumble.
While Snyder carries a lot of the blame for the poor execution, I think a substantial amount of fault also lies on Goyer. The script is a muddled mess, and for every great idea (like making Krypton a more fantasy-like world and culture) there are a handful of awful redundant garbage which bogs the film down (like everything involving genetics in the film). The relationships are weak, most of the character arcs are shallow, and yet the script wallows in them like they are a strong driving force and motivation for everything else. Really bizarre choice. There's so much "look at me, I'm a SERIOUS movie", it's hard not to look deeper into every scene, only to see that often there's nothing there, or that the message doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
I really liked the individual isolated character moments which did work. Some of Clark's childhood scenes are really well realized and shot, and stand out on their own. They don't really work that well as part of the larger movie, but I really liked some of the moments themselves. The action was also really impressive until it goes right into videogame territory at the very end. The depiction of the Kryptonians and the flight sequences were really cool, and there was a real sense of speed and force when they create impact on the environment or each other. Some of the fights in the middle of the movie were actually enjoyable to watch and felt well planned. The climax was like Kingdom Hearts 2 x Metal Gear Rising though. I guess it's the coolest Superman videogame boss battle I've ever seen, but for a movie it's kinda silly.
But in the end, I think what left the worst taste in my mouth was how the final fight ended. I can't really discuss it without spoiling so....
The contrived situation they created right at the end there to make Superman kill Zod without managing to stop him from killing those people was fucking moronic. It felt so engineered and unnatural that the only thing I could think of was some 16 year old kid going "WOW IT WOULD BE SO DARK AND EDGY IF THAT HAPPENED AND THEN BAM HE HAS TO TWIST HIS NECK OFF IN A VIOLENT RAGE!!!" Yeah, no. It was dumb, uncalled for, and just stupid. The family had this huge time window to run the fuck away long before Zod decided to use any lasers, but they just huddled into the corner like they were stuck in a 2D game background. What a joke.
I'll give the movie 6.5/10 maybe, and only because I feel bad for Snyder that he failed because of his shortcomings and not because of actual poor decisions. His heart was in the right place, he just lacked the skill and experience for it.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I'm gonna disagree on Snyder's culpability, mostly because I feel whatever emotion the movie earned, it earned because he managed to wring it out of a script/story that simply WAS NOT HAVING IT.
Goyer can't do fun, and he can't do heartfelt. He can't. Look at his filmography. He can do tortured, he can do sad, he can do mean-spirited and he can do smartassed, but he can't do fun, good-natured, or heartfelt.
So the fact the movie managed any of those emotions on a perceptible level (and it DOES happen) is probably more Snyder than anything.
Goyer can't do fun, and he can't do heartfelt. He can't. Look at his filmography. He can do tortured, he can do sad, he can do mean-spirited and he can do smartassed, but he can't do fun, good-natured, or heartfelt.
So the fact the movie managed any of those emotions on a perceptible level (and it DOES happen) is probably more Snyder than anything.
Snyder's blame is not that he couldn't get emotion out of characters, it was that he didn't know how to assemble the movie to its full potential. There is a TON of potential completely squandered because of the way stuff was edited, or how the film was paced to begin with. I think Snyder did do a lot of good as well, like I said, he tried his best. Goyer on the other hand, should never fucking write again after the Blade crap, the 3 Batman movies, and now this. He is the weak link in comic book adaptations.
Do you have anything worthwhile to say other than making cheap shots at people? If you disagree with something, you can discuss it. Trying to make it a cheap personal attack serves no purpose and is rude.
Heart Attack
Member
He's not wrong. It was out of place, and just thrown out there.
It's already discussed in the spoiler thread where spoiler goes man.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Snyder's blame is not that he couldn't get emotion out of characters, it was that he didn't know how to assemble the movie to its full potential. There is a TON of potential completely squandered because of the way stuff was edited, or how the film was paced to begin with. I think Snyder did do a lot of good as well, like I said, he tried his best. Goyer on the other hand, should never fucking write again after the Blade crap, the 3 Batman movies, and now this. He is the weak link in comic book adaptations.
I'm gonna bet that of all the stuff he shot, this probably IS the best he could have done with 2:30. And I'm saying that as someone who has serious problems with how it was paced & cut together.
Maybe an extended cut will add sequences that make the longer movie seem shorter, but I'm more inclined to believe he tried to cut together something as powerful as he could without completely sacrificing coherence. The missed opportunities are more Goyer/Nolan's than Snyders, I feel.
But I probably won't REALLY know until stories of the post-production start coming out.
ALSO: At no point was Superman's heroics underscored with the strings/horns from the 3-minute trailer. Which is weird. The only time the resolution of Clark's theme ever played out in full was over the credits.
Snyder's blame is not that he couldn't get emotion out of characters, it was that he didn't know how to assemble the movie to its full potential. There is a TON of potential completely squandered because of the way stuff was edited, or how the film was paced to begin with. I think Snyder did do a lot of good as well, like I said, he tried his best. Goyer on the other hand, should never fucking write again after the Blade crap, the 3 Batman movies, and now this. He is the weak link in comic book adaptations.
But doesnt the blame fall on Nolan then? He should've been able to fix the editing / pacing issues rather easily. (Still havent seen the film, it opens on the 20th here).
Why would Nolan "fix" the editing and pacing for a film he's not directing.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Nolan was a hands-off producer. Once he broke the story w/ Goyer, he didn't really do much but let his name be used in marketing to lend it legitimacy.
Maninthemirror
Banned
Well you do have the spoiler portion wrong:
zod is frustated and exhausted in the end and superman has him nearly pinned down, it is a rare 1-1 moment which is not filled with mayhem for that moment when zod does try to fry some folks, it is this private moment with supes which causes supes to panic and the only thing he can think of when having him pinned down and to stop him is to break his neck. It is the human response of panic that gave supes in in the end
I think you are right, in general the movie was so disappointing because it was so close to being good. The pacing was a mess - it's like a great piece of art that has been broken up into a jigsaw.
Because unless Snyder had final cut privileges, that would've been the easiest way for him to help Snyder out? I mean it's obvious that he wants the movie to be succesful and talked with Snyder about the structure of the film. All I'm saying is that this version should resemble the vision of the whole creative team behind it.
But like I said I havent seen this movie yet and it was simply a question out of curiosity.
I think you're entitled to that interpretation, and if it works for you, cool. My issue is with the need for such a scene to begin with though, and how it was executed. It felt unnatural and contrived. I also respect people who actually take the time to respond to stuff if they disagree, it makes a discussion enjoyable.
Disagree about the casting. I thought the casting in the movie was phenomenal. Amy Adams was kinda whatever, but she didn't have much material to work with either.
I think you're entitled to that interpretation, and if it works for you, cool. My issue is with the need for such a scene to begin with though, and how it was executed. It felt unnatural and contrived. I also respect people who actually take the time to respond to stuff if they disagree, it makes a discussion enjoyable.
Disagree about the casting. I thought the casting in the movie was phenomenal. Amy Adams was kinda whatever, but she didn't have much material to work with either.
Cavill had zero charisma. That could be a directing note, I just feel like the role should have gone to someone who lit up the screen a little but more than he did. There really wasn't much to work with though, so maybe it was a problem as well.
His delivery was so wooden in some places, though. It was distracting.
Christ....even after the reviews, the trailers had me so excited and were so good I thought there was no way I wouldn't like this movie.
WRONG!
Worst paced movie I've ever seen. I don't think I could ever watch that first hour again. Stupid
mumbo jumbo. A lot of the dialogue is lol worthy.
Granted the fight in the middle was awesome but other than that.....boooo.
I do think Cavill can be a good superman, he showed short bursts of charisma then nothing..but I think that was because of direction and script problems.
WRONG!
Worst paced movie I've ever seen. I don't think I could ever watch that first hour again. Stupid
atmoshere
Granted the fight in the middle was awesome but other than that.....boooo.
I do think Cavill can be a good superman, he showed short bursts of charisma then nothing..but I think that was because of direction and script problems.
I know that, I was just curious about blaming Snyder's inexperience with serious films when you have someone like Nolan sitting on the bench. But who cares, I still fully expect to love the film (I love Watchmen which I think is perfectly paced; I even like TDKR (despite it flaws)).
Sir Alemeth
Member
Just got back from the movie, and knowing all the negativity going around, I had to stop by here and post.
All I have to say to all the negative reviews is a big WTF. This movie was AWESOME. I hate to say it but my wife and I enjoyed the entire thing through and through, so much so that I'm giving it a 10/10. Yes, a 10/10. MAYBE a 9/10 if I have to really nitpick.
The script was awesome, and I actually LOVED the pacing of the movie. Whereas most people say the action was the best part of the film, I actually thought it was just 'good enough'...and the last fight sequence didn't feel that long at all like everyone is claiming.
I also loved the acting so I have no idea why people think it was bad. The chemistry between Lois and Clark was dead on. Jonathan, Martha, Perry White and Jor El were all phenomenal.
I honestly DON'T GET why almost everyone hated it. I guess there must be something wrong with me :\
If there is one thing that I wish could've been even better in this film is the action. I guess after everyone hyping up the action I expected A LOT.
Anyway, again, 10/10.
All I have to say to all the negative reviews is a big WTF. This movie was AWESOME. I hate to say it but my wife and I enjoyed the entire thing through and through, so much so that I'm giving it a 10/10. Yes, a 10/10. MAYBE a 9/10 if I have to really nitpick.
The script was awesome, and I actually LOVED the pacing of the movie. Whereas most people say the action was the best part of the film, I actually thought it was just 'good enough'...and the last fight sequence didn't feel that long at all like everyone is claiming.
I also loved the acting so I have no idea why people think it was bad. The chemistry between Lois and Clark was dead on. Jonathan, Martha, Perry White and Jor El were all phenomenal.
I honestly DON'T GET why almost everyone hated it. I guess there must be something wrong with me :\
If there is one thing that I wish could've been even better in this film is the action. I guess after everyone hyping up the action I expected A LOT.
Anyway, again, 10/10.
BAY FAN POWER! NEVER GONNA LET HIM DOWN! NEVER GONNA LET HIM GO! #MichaelBay4Ever
Okay, Man of Steel is definitely better than Transformers 2.
You're not alone, most of the people I saw it with and myself would give it a 10/10, it was phenomenal in my eyes. Most of the user reviews seem to be hovering around an 8-8.5 out of 10 average, so overall, most people enjoyed the film. Very polarizing film I guess.
Sir Alemeth
Member
That's great to hear and hope it does well cuz dat ending.....I want a sequel!!!
I agree. I wouldn't give it a 10, maybe an 8-8.5/10, but I enjoyed it thoroughly regardless. Had a blast and can't wait for a sequel.
It's a really pretty movie with beautiful visuals and cinematography. The action was great too, tho the final battle's end was kinda anticlimactic for me. Zod and the Kryptons were badass, and I like Cavill much better as Supes than Routh. I like how the origin story was done this time around too rather than rehashing older works.
I enjoyed for what it was, I hope for a sequel since it can only get better from here.
Basically this movie rectifies the criticisms of the older movies (not enough Superman fights) but ends up skimming through plot and character development which the Donner movies were so good at.
It was worth my IMAX ticket.
I enjoyed for what it was, I hope for a sequel since it can only get better from here.
Basically this movie rectifies the criticisms of the older movies (not enough Superman fights) but ends up skimming through plot and character development which the Donner movies were so good at.
It was worth my IMAX ticket.
CosmicGroinPull
Member
Wow I had no idea.
Sir Alemeth
Member
Maybe. Maybe the fact that we enjoyed it so much that I'm rating it while I'm still on a high from watching the film. The 10/10 is purely subjective as of right now...as in how much I thoroughly enjoyed it.
HoodWinked
Member
HOLY FUCK i just came back from watching this in imax 3D the action alone makes the movie incredible. the fight sequences are light years ahead of anything i've ever seen in my life.
weta + snyder my god.
weta + snyder my god.
CosmicGroinPull
Member
I didn't mind it. I got that feeling too, but my liking it over the 'done before' methods overrode that.
And I can't think of anything else this 'noob' Superman can do to stop a mad Zod
So I enjoyed the shock factor and the little scene that followed with 'the alien's first friend'
So I enjoyed the shock factor and the little scene that followed with 'the alien's first friend'
HoodWinked
Member
omg that fight sequence and then her taking out the military guards one by one that was really bad ass i wish i could find a gif of it.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Michael Shannon was a great fucking pick for Zod. The script failed him, is all. The Rock wouldn't have had anything to do in the role, either.
HoodWinked
Member
whats wrong with Micheal Shannon's Zod? i thought he was good hes just the sorta lunatic you'd expect to think that he is fully committed that what hes doing is just
Dwayne Johnson has far more charisma but hes far too likable a person that you cant expect him to be nothing more than a one dimensional villain strong silent type.
by wiping out the human population to reinhabit it with krytonians.
Dwayne Johnson has far more charisma but hes far too likable a person that you cant expect him to be nothing more than a one dimensional villain strong silent type.
HoodWinked
Member
thats what makes it even better cause hes overacting as if he is actually crazy.
Micheal Shannon is great. I don't have any problems with how his Zod was portrayed. I think there was a terrible flaw in his motivation for being a villain though.
He could have recovered the Genesis Chamber, and offered to use the World Builder to build a new Krypton on Mars, Venus, Saturn, or any of Jupiter's moons, etc. Specifically wanting to use Earth seems to not make a ton of sense other than positioning him to be an irrational villain.