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Manga Discussion/News |OT7| This thread gets an F-; I quit; see you next week.

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B

Big One

Banned
BatDan said:
Don't forget the rap intro. While Naruto had a "Rock the Dragon" type intro, it still showed what the series is like. It has action.
The rap intro made One Piece seem much goofier than it really is. It also doesn't help that it's utterly terrible, even for 4Kids intros.

Back then, I was in the minority that knew One Piece was brilliant. I discovered the manga in Viz's Shonen Jump and out of all the ones featured I thought it was the best.
Click to expand...
That's another problem with One Piece in the West. Naruto's height of it's manga was during the first few arcs of it's release, and same with Bleach. When Shonen Jump was releasing each chapters they started out with each manga with chapter 1 essentially, which skews not only how the chapters were originally published in WSJ but kind of throws people off as One Piece is a much slower paced series in telling it's story than Naruto and Bleach were. Basically Naruto and Bleach started out good when Shonen Jump was released, but One Piece didn't, and it stayed that way for quite some time until Shonen Jump was faded into obscurity when people realized they could read Naruto and Bleach online instead.
 
Laughing Banana

Laughing Banana

Weeping Pickle
Infinite Justice said:
great now the pirates vs ninjas discussion is here :(
Click to expand...

Ninjas

Big One said:
If Ninja are more universal and marketable than Pirates, then Pirates of the Caribbean wouldn't be some of the most highest grossing films of all time in the WORLD. Not to mention that pirate themes for Halloween costumes are more popular than ninja themes. Though it doesn't really matter, there's always a time and place for whether certain themes are popular depending on what's cool and what isn't cool.

Theme isn't the issue, it's just advertising and marketing that is.
Click to expand...

Eh, just my opinion. Like I said, PoTC is probably more popular due to its high-budgeted special effects and high-rated stars a.k.a. Johny Depp than its pirate theme.

Anyways, you're right, it doesn't really matter.
 
A

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
I seriously can't remember any ninja stories from any medium that took off in the 21st century.

In the west specifically.
 
P

Phoenician_Viking

Banned
Big One said:
No it was 4kids, simple as that. I know you may not been around back in the days 4kids had the license to dub One Piece, but the mass thought when One Piece was first release that it was a garbage kids show compared to the more "badass" Naruto and Bleach. At large, people watch the anime and that's the impression they get from such series as these (and yes, that's a fact). Not to mention that even before their releases, the niche for Naruto and Bleach were much stronger than of One Piece's as both Naruto and Bleach were essentially hyped by the anime fandom BEFORE they were dubbed and there was nothing for One Piece as...
1. It was released a year before Naruto, and Bleach was released a year after that.
2. It aired on a channel where no Western anime fan really watched for outside of YGO maybe, which was always thought by the anime fanbase to be for kids.
3. Naruto aired on Toonami, which has more credibility than KidsWB/4KidsTV amongst the anime fandom. Bleach aired on Adult Swim, which has more credibility than both.

Naruto and Bleach were setup and advertised as being legit anime series with legit stories and legit characters. One Piece was setup and advertised as a comedy series primarily.

The only reason why I know this is because I used to be one of those sheeple who thought Naruto was hot shit and One Piece was "lame" and the g-word I might get banned for, without actually seeing One Piece outside of a single episode of the dub. This was the massive thought process nearly a decade ago on the Big Three.


Again, whether people like the show or not is irrelevant. DBZ is the most popular anime of all time, but has an almost equal amount of lovers and haters that recognize it.
Click to expand...

People who buy Bleach and Naruto manga also know about the existence, and quality (according to them) of other manga. It´s ludicrous to say that 4kids anime from many years ago still have effect on the sales of one piece manga in the US as of the past couple of years until today.

One piece manga is as known as Naruto and Bleach in the West, and the rest of the west did not have the awful 4kids dub.

Themes/characters/concepts/plot/arts are all parts of what attracts people to manga. One piece is very well known in the west yet it does not do as well as Naruto or Bleach in most of these western countries.
 
B

Big One

Banned
Phoenician_Viking said:
People who buy Bleach and Naruto manga also know about the existence, and quality (according to them) of other manga. It´s ludicrous to say that 4kids anime from many years ago still have effect on the sales of one piece manga in the US as of the past couple of years until today.

One piece manga is as known as Naruto and Bleach in the West, and the rest of the west did not have the awful 4kids dub.

Themes/characters/concepts/plot/arts are all parts of what attracts people to manga. One piece is very well known in the west yet it does not do as well as Naruto or Belach in most of these western countries.
Click to expand...
You do realize the countries that didn't have the 4kids One Piece dub, One Piece is actually very popular and sometimes even more popular than Naruto/Bleach, correct? It's popularity in Japan doesn't make One Piece the highest selling manga of all time worldwide.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Big One said:
If Ninja are more universal and marketable than Pirates, then Pirates of the Caribbean wouldn't be some of the most highest grossing films of all time in the WORLD. Not to mention that pirate themes for Halloween costumes are more popular than ninja themes. Though it doesn't really matter, there's always a time and place for whether certain themes are popular depending on what's cool and what isn't cool.

Theme isn't the issue, it's just advertising and marketing that is.
Click to expand...

Ninja are more marketable to the target demographic. The "pirates" in One Piece resemble pirates about as much as Naruto looks like a Ninja, though. I don't think the nominal designation necessarily matters that much.
 
D

dumbyugi

Member
Big One said:
You do realize the countries that didn't have the 4kids One Piece dub, One Piece is actually very popular and sometimes even more popular than Naruto/Bleach, correct? It's popularity in Japan doesn't make One Piece the highest selling manga of all time worldwide.
Click to expand...

The dub itself has very little to do with why One Piece isn't as popular in the USA compared to Naruto and Bleach. It's got more to do with it being aired on 4kidsTV/KidsWB and not on Toonami. This is all pointless though in terms of manga sales. IIRC a top selling manga in the USA is lucky to reach 25,000 a volume. There a series in Jump that get canned for selling that low.
 
I

Infinite Justice

Member
dumbyugi said:
The dub itself has very little to do with why One Piece isn't as popular in the USA compared to Naruto and Bleach. It's got more to do with it being aired on 4kidsTV/KidsWB and not on Toonami. This is all pointless though in terms of manga sales. IIRC a top selling manga in the USA is lucky to reach 25,000 a volume. There a series in Jump that get canned for selling that low.
Click to expand...


its that low now? :O
 
B

Big One

Banned
dumbyugi said:
The dub itself has very little to do with why One Piece isn't as popular in the USA compared to Naruto and Bleach. It's got more to do with it being aired on 4kidsTV/KidsWB and not on Toonami. This is all pointless though in terms of manga sales. IIRC a top selling manga in the USA is lucky to reach 25,000 a volume. There a series in Jump that get canned for selling that low.
Click to expand...
This is true. As I said it's really how the series was handled in terms of marketing and advertising. It didn't help either that the product itself was of low quality.

Then you had a series like Naruto. It was on Toonami, it had a fantastic emotional soundtrack that really got you into the storyline, and the series itself started out in a fast pace with it's storyline establishing itself as a character-based series. Of course it's going to get more appeal, especially when the 4kids dub of One Piece started airing on Toonami the contrast made One Piece look like shit.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Big One said:
That's another problem with One Piece in the West. Naruto's height of it's manga was during the first few arcs of it's release, and same with Bleach. When Shonen Jump was releasing each chapters they started out with each manga with chapter 1 essentially, which skews not only how the chapters were originally published in WSJ but kind of throws people off as One Piece is a much slower paced series in telling it's story than Naruto and Bleach were. Basically Naruto and Bleach started out good when Shonen Jump was released, but One Piece didn't, and it stayed that way for quite some time until Shonen Jump was faded into obscurity when people realized they could read Naruto and Bleach online instead.
Click to expand...
I don't understand what you're trying to say here and/or what you're proposing the impact of this is on the popularity of those series.

I think your argument about the anime dub is pretty speculative anyways. If I had to speculate, I would imagine that One Piece probably doesn't attract nearly as many girls as Naruto and Bleach do.
 
B

Big One

Banned
Angry Grimace said:
I don't understand what you're trying to say here and/or what you're proposing the impact of this is on the popularity of those series.
Click to expand...
The first impression of a series is always the most important, even on a mass level. Let's say, for example, they release a sequel to Delgo one of the worst and lowest grossing animated flicks of all time. This sequel, however, is amazingly well-done and gets positive reviews, but still doesn't draw as much as the original because of the very fact that the original built this reputation to stay away from anything related to it in some form or another. There's a few exceptions to this rule obviously, but for the most part applies to everything when it comes to popularity and recognition.

In Japan, the first impression of One Piece wasn't alongside the releases of Naruto and Bleach, it was alongside a whole slew of garbage manga which made people get attached to it as it had some form of a running story. And then when Naruto was first published in Japan, people were already reading the "good" parts of One Piece, and same can be said for Bleach. This release format basically gives people different impressions of these series where publishing time played a factor on which was most popular or not. When you publish certain stories at certain times, people are simply going to be attracted to it more-so than other manga.

When Naruto and Bleach was first published, One Piece already was into the Alabasta arc, which really defined One Piece as a series.
 
C

Crimsonlink

Member
Well to input something, Naruto looks white, has blonde hair and is a loudmouth. Stereotypical american archetypes in other words. (Yes I'm generalizing but there is some truth in what I'm saying)

Ichigo has the rebel thing going for him and has a Big Ass Sword, not to mention his Bankai is a pimp coat!

Luffy has.... a straw hat and stretchy limbs?

Just basic observations from me of course. Characters are much more complicated than that.
 
D

dumbyugi

Member
Here are some sales numbers from the end of May/ beginging of June last year in the USA. Sailor Moon and Naruto are the best selling manga in the USA and they don't even sell as well as some gag manga in Japan.
 
C

Crimsonlink

Member
dumbyugi said:
Here are some sales numbers from the end of May/ beginging of June last year in the USA. Sailor Moon and Naruto are the best selling manga in the USA and they don't even sell as well as some gag manga in Japan.
Click to expand...

I seriously hope people are buying digital copies or something. That is just sad to see.

I'm working on my Bleach collection right now, on volume 14 as of now. Need 40ish more volumes lol.
 
F

FlutterPuffs

Member
One Piece doesn't really have eye-catching art. I looks kid-dish at first glance, especially on the first few volumes.

I remember giving One Piece a pass when it first came out until a friend forced me to read the first 4 volumes by giving me the books. Was hooked ever since.
 
D

dumbyugi

Member
The sales are probably a bit higher then that in the USA as those numbers don't cover every store but they wouldn't be significantly higher.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Big One said:
The first impression of a series is always the most important, even on a mass level. Let's say, for example, they release a sequel to Delgo one of the worst and lowest grossing animated flicks of all time. This sequel, however, is amazingly well-done and gets positive reviews, but still doesn't draw as much as the original because of the very fact that the original built this reputation to stay away from anything related to it in some form or another. There's a few exceptions to this rule obviously, but for the most part applies to everything when it comes to popularity and recognition.

In Japan, the first impression of One Piece wasn't alongside the releases of Naruto and Bleach, it was alongside a whole slew of garbage manga which made people get attached to it as it had some form of a running story. And then when Naruto was first published in Japan, people were already reading the "good" parts of One Piece, and same can be said for Bleach. This release format basically gives people different impressions of these series where publishing time played a factor on which was most popular or not. When you publish certain stories at certain times, people are simply going to be attracted to it more-so than other manga.

When Naruto and Bleach was first published, One Piece already was into the Alabasta arc, which really defined One Piece as a series.
Click to expand...
I'm still not sure what you're talking about because you're shifting back and forth between the US and Japan without signposting when you're doing so. You're also just making vague references to "garbage series" and such without giving enough detail to know what you're talking about.

And sure, impression matters, but I don't think that ipso facto proves any particular point about One Piece's popularity. I think its just as likely that Naruto is more popular simply because its closer to the DBZ mold than One Piece is, at least at first blush.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
500+ chapters is a fucking slog when you're talking about generic shonen. I wouldn't recommend anyone pick up Naruto or Bleach and while I haven't reached that far in One Piece, I can't imagine I would recommend that either.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Laughing Banana said:
So me and Angry are the oldest ones here? :(

Except maybe for God's Beard? Hahaha.
Click to expand...

He isn't older than I am. He's just being crabby that people are having speculative conversation No. 18158 about One Piece vs. Naruto.
 
G

gundamkyoukai

Member
Big One said:
In Japan, the first impression of One Piece wasn't alongside the releases of Naruto and Bleach, it was alongside a whole slew of garbage manga which made people get attached to it as it had some form of a running story. And then when Naruto was first published in Japan, people were already reading the "good" parts of One Piece, and same can be said for Bleach. This release format basically gives people different impressions of these series where publishing time played a factor on which was most popular or not. When you publish certain stories at certain times, people are simply going to be attracted to it more-so than other manga.

When Naruto and Bleach was first published, One Piece already was into the Alabasta arc, which really defined One Piece as a series.
Click to expand...

OP was popular in Japan from the first chapter , when it came out it also increase Jump sales .
Not to mention it started a short while before HxH and Kenshin was nearing it's end in Jump so there were other big manga there .

dumbyugi said:
Here are some sales numbers from the end of May/ beginging of June last year in the USA. Sailor Moon and Naruto are the best selling manga in the USA and they don't even sell as well as some gag manga in Japan.
Click to expand...

Man that is really bad .

Laughing Banana said:
So we're officially the oldest ones in here? :eek:
Click to expand...

Nope will be 30 in 3 months .
 
B

bigkrev

Member
Aunt Tits 56-65

Cross-dressing, overcoming a fear of masturbation, and basically kiss-rape, all in a nice, compact 10 chapters. Money!
 
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