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Manga News/Discussion |OTZ| Reading Shounen Garbage < Watching Moe Garbage

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Averon

Member
Naruto

Wow. Obito wasn't TNJ'd into self-sacrificing himself. Color me surprised. Of course, who knows what will happen next, so maybe I'm talking too soon.

edit: also this continues the trend of 'friend failing to save friend'. Jiraiya-Oro, Hashi-Madara, Sarutobi-Danzo, and now Kakashi-Obito. All failed to save their friend on their dark path. Of course Naruto will break that trend and save the Sauce, which will further solidify his new savior status.
 

Tathanen

Get Inside Her!
Obito took on a fully powered Naruto, Killer Bee, Guy and Kakashi on his own a few chapters back and actually fought them to a draw. He outclasses Kakashi when it comes to just about everything. Jutsu (Insanely overpowered Wood style jutsu, Fire style jutsu and High speed teleportation.) Kakashi won because Kishi powered him down for this fight, and it shows.

He is leagues above Kakashi in terms of strength, even while fatigued tired. He shouldn't have gone down that easily.

EDIT: It's unconfirmed if he can use his kamui in that world, but i'm pretty sure he can at least use it for movement. If not, he could still beat Kakashi with his wood style jutsu.

Of course he couldn't use it for movement, he moves with it by traveling into the kamui dimension, and then out of it again into a new space. The entirety of his ability involves putting part or all of himself in that dimension. Losing the foundation of every fight he's ever fought likely undermines his ability to function in battle in more than one way, since the way he uses his other techniques all operate around the assumption that he can also phase through counterattacks at any time.

Anyway yes, obviously Obito didn't use any of his wood shit, but Kakashi also didn't use any of his shit. That final conflict there was basically a reenactment of an old fight, peopled by a downtrodden Obito and a "fuck this shit" Kakashi (who has also been powered-up by Kyuubi chakra for this entire final conflict, lest we forget).
 

PK Gaming

Member
It's the same BS that he did with Kalifa and got his ass kick .
Now it's the second time and it worked out for him (what does Doflamingo do to these women )
Sanji interaction with women are find ( for the character type Oda using with him ) unless your talking about fighting that is a lost cause .

No, the Kalifa scene was completely different. Sanji deservingly got the shit beat out of him because of his moral code. Sure, ok I'm fine with that. I'm not fine with Sanji being a sue and having his stupid code actually working out in his favor..

"I will never question... a ladies tears" - what kind of garbage is that. Oda just through out any chance of making goggle girl and interesting character because of that. She's just another women in a bad spot that Sanji needs to protect, and it really drives me up a wall because it further signifies that nothing changes for Sanji. It feels like he's changed the least after the timeskip.

Anyway yes, obviously Obito didn't use any of his wood shit, but Kakashi also didn't use any of his shit. That final conflict there was basically a reenactment of an old fight, peopled by a downtrodden Obito and a "fuck this shit" Kakashi (who has also been powered-up by Kyuubi chakra for this entire final conflict, lest we forget).

Kishi arbitrarily decided to power down both characters on a whim, no 2 ways about it. There is no conceivable way Obito could lose in his own world.

And yeah I just realized that Obito had the Rinnegan, but didn't bother to use it (along with his dozen other techniques that could kill kakashi...). So either he purposely lost, or he succumbed to PIS.
 

Shouta

Member
Naruto

Not bad. A more prolonged fight would have been nice but that would just make it long in the tooth a bit. Plus they're already so beat up for all the fighting already. It makes sense for most of Obito's tricks to not work. I also liked how they genjutsu'd the fight and Kakashi made the one adjustment for him to win the fight.
 

Tathanen

Get Inside Her!
Kishi arbitrarily decided to power down both characters on a whim, no 2 ways about it. There is no conceivable way Obito could lose in his own world.

You say this like being in "his own world" is in any conceivable way an advantage for him. It's pretty clear that it's an enormous disadvantage for him. BTW: Kakashi has the same eye. The world belongs to both of them.

And yeah I just realized that Obito had the Rinnegan, but didn't bother to use it (along with his dozen other techniques that could kill kakashi...). So either he purposely lost, or he succumbed to PIS.

Kakashi also used none of his myriad techniques, which are all probably still Kyuubi-powered. This fight aint as cut and dry as you people want to paint it.

[Edit] I mean let's just be clear here. Kakashi won because he exploited the one weakness Obito had, and the one weakness only Kakashi could exploit: fighting in the Kamui dimension. Obito can't use his primary technique, probably can't use any summons (like the big wood monster, any of the 6 path monsters, etc.), and is forced to fight on more equal grounds. It's like Luffy vs Enel. Kakashi just happens to be Obito's natural enemy.

Also: Obito probably doesn't have a ton of Chakra left after using Kamui so much, subduing all of the tailed beasts, fighting Naruto/Bee, controlling the Juubi vs the armies, etc. Even if he was in a situation where he could conceivable have access to the full power of the Rinnegan, he may just not have the stamina to exploit it. On the other hand, Kakashi is running on pure columbian ninetails.
 

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
Dr Frost 66

O5Fqpqo.png

Aw jeez.

Damn.

My skin crawled for the entire chapter. Such a tragic revelation. What a shitty way to die too, to believe that the only family who you thought loved you actually hated you.
 

Aizo

Banned
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";66465036]It used to be :-([/QUOTE]

It used to be bad? It used to be racist? It used to be good?
 

ffdgh

Member
Soo naruto. Madara was always in control over obito...not the ending I was expecting for him.

One piece. Well that was unexpected...but then again he is called young master.
 

PK Gaming

Member
You say this like being in "his own world" is in any conceivable way an advantage for him. It's pretty clear that it's an enormous disadvantage for him. BTW: Kakashi has the same eye. The world belongs to both of them.

Obito can summon giant Shurikens from that world, it's safe to say he has some degree of control over it, none of which was shown in that fight. If Obito was actually weaker in that world, he would have de-materialized and gone back to the real world, but he didn't because he was confident he could take Kakashi on. You claim that Obito can't use his powers in his world, but that's not true. His powers merely work in reverse when operating in that special world (ie: teleport from that world ==> real world and back to change positions). But he didn't do that, he didn't use anything that defines him as a top tier fighter.

Kakashi also used none of his myriad techniques, which are all probably still Kyuubi-powered. This fight aint as cut and dry as you people want to paint it.

Let's be reasonable, Kakashi's techniques don't quite compare to Obito's techniques. All he needed was Raiton anyway. Kishi decided to screw over Obito by not letting him use his best game changing techniques (Wood Style, Rinnegan, etc).
 
It used to be bad? It used to be racist? It used to be good?

Used to be hardcore racist. I really wanted it to be over-the-top sarcasm towards all the shitty transforming hero cartoons in the 90s, but then it dropped it after the first volume or so :-(

First volume was the best first volume of a shonen I've ever read.

Naruto

Not bad. A more prolonged fight would have been nice but that would just make it long in the tooth a bit. Plus they're already so beat up for all the fighting already. It makes sense for most of Obito's tricks to not work. I also liked how they genjutsu'd the fight and Kakashi made the one adjustment for him to win the fight.

are you me
 

Tathanen

Get Inside Her!
Obito can summon giant Shurikens from that world, it's safe to say he has some degree of control over it, none of which was shown in that fight. If Obito was actually weaker in that world, he would have de-materialized and gone back to the real world, but he didn't because he was confident he could take Kakashi on. You say that Obito can't use his powers in his world, but that's not true. His powers merely work in reverse when operating in that special world (ie: teleport from that world ==> real world and back to change positions). But he didn't do that, he didn't use anything that defines him as a top tier fighter.

Well you're ascribing a fair amount of fan-fiction to how the kamui dimension works there, we have no reason to assume he can do any of those things.
 
No, the Kalifa scene was completely different. Sanji deservingly got the shit beat out of him because of his moral code. Sure, ok I'm fine with that. I'm not fine with Sanji being a sue and having his stupid code actually working out in his favor..

"I will never question... a ladies tears" - what kind of garbage is that. Oda just through out any chance of making goggle girl and interesting character because of that. She's just another women in a bad spot that Sanji needs to protect, and it really drives me up a wall because it further signifies that nothing changes for Sanji. It feels like he's changed the least after the timeskip.

It was not different , the problem you have is with out come but it was the same BS with his moral code .
None of the SH have change after the skip , it was for them to power up not for them to change there ways .
Saying Sanji changed the least after the time skip makes no sense since one else has other than looks .
 
So something occured to meMany chapters ago Obito said that "Rin is Rin only if she's alive, that corpse at Konoha cemetery is not the real Rin. Eternal Tsukuyomi will be"

Insane Troll logic right? , right?

What the fuck at Kakashi, too!

In a nutshell, he thinks that the real Obito lives in Naruto and the current Obito must die. What a great friend he is.

Okay, Kakashi is a ninja. He have to kill an enemy if there's no other way. I'd be okay with that.

But at the same time thinking about how Naruto never gives up on Sasuke, makes him a hypocrite of epic proportion.
Why?

Because while Kakashi's thinking about Naruto never giving up on Sasuke, HE'S FUCKING GIVING UP ON OBITO.

How can Kakashi state that he's aligned with Naruto's way of thinking, if he doesn't actually follow his methods?
 

PK Gaming

Member
Well you're ascribing a fair amount of fan-fiction to how the kamui dimension works there, we have no reason to assume he can do any of those things.

How is that fan-fiction? He can phase through things in the real world because he transports his body to the Kamui world. One should assume that if he were fighting in the Kamui world, it would be possible for him to do the same but in reverse. I'd argue that the burden of proof falls on to you. Prove to me that that Obito couldn't just go de-materialize, go back to the real word, return and strike Kakashi from unaware position. I don't believe for a second that an obito with decent writing would opt to run at him like an idiot and disregard all of his strongest techniques and his mastery of the rinnegan, which actually surpasses (Nagato- see chapter 597)
 

Raxus

Member
Bleach

Look at all those opponents Ichigo and the captains have to fight. They could squeeze a whole 5-10 minutes of animation out of this chapter!

One Piece

Say whaaaaaaaaaaat!?!?

Naruto


That wasn't a bad chapter albeit kind of an anti-climax. Figures even Obito got played.
 

Tathanen

Get Inside Her!
How is that fan-fiction? He can phase through things in the real world because he transports his body to the Kamui world. One should assume that if he were fighting in the Kamui world, it would be possible for him to do the same but in reverse. I'd argue that the burden of proof falls on to you. Prove to me that that Obito couldn't just go de-materialize, go back to the real word, return and strike Kakashi from unaware position. I don't believe for a second that an obito with decent writing would opt to run at him like an idiot and disregard all of his strongest techniques and his mastery of the rinnegan, which actually surpasses (Nagato- see chapter 597)

Because Nightcrawler in X-Men uses a virtually identical ability, whereby when he teleports he is in fact passing through a "transit" dimension on the way to his target. The location exists for movement through two coordinates in 3D space in the "real world," we have no evidence that he can use the real world as a transit dimension to place himself wherever he wants to within the kamui dimension. For all we know, every time he teleports from real-world place to real-world place he moves through exactly the same place within kamui. In fact, being able to hit a part of his body that has teleported there, as in your linked image, implies that his position within kamui is locked, during a partial-teleport at least. Do you have any examples showing contrary? "One should assume" isn't really an actual argument.

I say "fan-fiction" because we simply haven't seen him do it. The burden of proof lies with the one claiming someone can do something, not that they can't.
 

MetatronM

Unconfirmed Member
One Piece

I really love Doflamingo. Dude is a master class troll.

The writing's been on the wall for years that he's related to the Celestial Dragons. It certainly is the most logical explanation for how he can be the king of a country and a pirate and the world's greatest underground broker and one of the Warlords and Caesar's patron and still be able to say and do pretty much whatever the hell he wants at Marine HQ.
 

PK Gaming

Member
Because Nightcrawler in X-Men uses a virtually identical ability, whereby when he teleports he is in fact passing through a "transit" dimension on the way to his target. The location exists for movement through two coordinates in 3D space in the "real world," we have no evidence that he can use the real world as a transit dimension to place himself wherever he wants to within the kamui dimension. For all we know, every time he teleports from real-world place to real-world place he moves through exactly the same place within kamui. In fact, being able to hit a part of his body that has teleported there, as in your linked image, implies that his position within kamui is locked, during a partial-teleport at least. Do you have any examples showing contrary? "One should assume" isn't really an actual argument.

I say "fan-fiction" because we simply haven't seen him do it. The burden of proof lies with the one claiming someone can do something, not that they can't.

I do not. I'm going to drop this angle because it's going nowhere, fast.

That still doesn't invalidate the other points that were brought up (Obito neglecting to use his strongest techniques) because of Kishi's crappy writing.
 
OP

I always figured he related to the Celestial Dragons in some way, not many entities higher than the world government itself.


Big question is; how? He obviously is a Celestial Dragon himself in some shape, but obviously there's something different about him considering the fact he seems to keep it relatively under the rugs.

Maybe he's a bastard child of a Celestial Dragon, but still a Celestial Dragon in the end? I'm curious.
 

Tathanen

Get Inside Her!
I do not. I'm going to drop this angle because it's going nowhere, fast.

That still doesn't invalidate the other points that were brought up (Obito neglecting to use his strongest techniques) because of Kishi's crappy writing.

Well, he either didn't use them because of:

A) Inadequate chakra, which isn't an unreasonable proposition considering everything he was doing up until that point

or

B) Desire to beat Kakashi in the same matter he was himself defeated during their childhood battle (I doubt those flashback panels were for nothing)

or maybe even

C) A little from column A, a little from column B

I just think it's hugely more interesting to discuss why someone might have done something for in-universe reasons, rather than "lol bad writing shit kishi fuck F-," despite the latter being universally accepted as the modus operandi in this thread. The decisions of the author in a work, particularly when all we can do is wildly grope in ignorance at what they might even be and why they were made, are honestly irrelevant to me.
 

MetatronM

Unconfirmed Member
OP

I always figured he related to the Celestial Dragons in some way, not many entities higher than the world government itself.


Big question is; how? He obviously is a Celestial Dragon himself in some shape, but obviously there's something different about him considering the fact he seems to keep it relatively under the rugs.

Maybe he's a bastard child of a Celestial Dragon, but still a Celestial Dragon in the end? I'm curious.
It's also worth mentioning that Doflamingo's epithet is Tenyasha ("Heavenly Demon"), as opposed to Tenryuubito.
 

PK Gaming

Member
Well, he either didn't use them because of:

A) Inadequate chakra, which isn't an unreasonable proposition considering everything he was doing up until that point

or

B) Desire to beat Kakashi in the same matter he was himself defeated during their childhood battle (I doubt those flashback panels were for nothing)

or maybe even

C) A little from column A, a little from column B

I just think it's hugely more interesting to discuss why someone might have done something for in-universe reasons, rather than "lol bad writing shit kishi fuck F-," despite the latter being universally accepted as the modus operandi in this thread. The decisions of the author in a work, particularly when all we can do is wildly grope in ignorance at what they might even be and why they were made, are honestly irrelevant to me.

See, I don't buy into the concept of chakra, considering how wildly inconsistent it is in part 2. Obito has been spamming fairly powerful skills from the get go and it's impossible to determine what his limit is (he hasn't explicitly said he's out of chakra).

The problem with point B: Obito is absolutely determined to achieve his goal. Nothing else matters to him, which is why I think it's unreasonable he'd throw it all away to have one final dual with Kakashi. He was willing to throw the whole world into turmoil and kill anyone who got in his way. I absolutely expected him through everything he had at Kakashi, and he didn't.

I know it's ultimately up to Kishi to determine the course of events, but i can't say i'm happy with his decision at all. This isn't me giving this chapter an F-, i'm legitimately disappointed in what's happening in the manga right now.
 

Kusagari

Member
I can't help but feel we're going to get a curveball on Doflamingo being a Noble.

I'm going to guess he's actually the son of one of the Gorosei.
 
I can't help but feel we're going to get a curveball on Doflamingo being a Noble.

I'm going to guess he's actually the son of one of the Gorosei.

There's a catch for sure.

Son of gorosei, bastard child of world noble.

There's no way it's just "yeah he's a Tenryuubito" - and that's the end of it.
 
Bleach

I read this really insightful comment on Onemanga forums and i want to post it here. All credits goes to Milareppa

First things first...

The trio that rushed Yamamoto are definitely alive. So, why did they rush Yamamoto if it apparently achieved nothing (from both their end and Yamamoto's)? I'm more convinced than ever there's something about Yamamoto's final fight (with both Juhabach and Royd) we haven't been told.

There's clearly more to the letters than simply the unique ability it might name. As theorised by the fandom, it does appear to also denote hierarchy, and hierarchy tends to represent something else: a prioritising of value. Now, what that value seems to go beyond the power - at least that's the subtext I'm getting from both Manga Panda and Mangastream. What it is, however... well, I suspect that would reveal too much at this point, so I'm not expecting clarification for a while.

There's something I've been theorising from the start and it's part of my theory that I'm not convinced the quincies (as a group) are the final enemy, even if Juhabach was the final enemy. In fact, it's something I wanted to see for my theory to continue to be viable for any length of time: that the quincies following Juhabach do not fully know what Juhabach is up to. In this chapter, for the first time, we get a very strong indication that these quincies - even the top ranking ones - are not privvy to their emperor's motives and goals. And they apparently don't know everything there is to know about quincies.

There's a stark contrast at work in this chapter when comparing it to the quincy assault on Seireitei. They had data on the shinigami. It's questionable how much they knew about appearances, but they knew about names, ranks, powers (or at least those who bothered to read the reports did).

Nobody recognises Uryuu. Even when they're told he's the last quincy survivor in the world, that is not a source of recognition for them. That doesn't automatically reveal Uryuu's identity to them. More importantly, Juhabach outright states Uryuu's full name... and it still means nothing to the Stern Ritters. Even more importantly, they didn't even know Juhabach was planning something like this - given the shock, it looks like even Uryuu's recruitment was a secret until his 'reveal' to the troops. He's a bolt out of the blue, a complete unknown, something that have precisely no information on.

And that is downright bizarre. In fact, it's utterly suspicious.

Quick aside: last quincy alive in the world/lone quincy survivor in the world. This is either support for the theory that the Vandenreich quincies are dead (leaving the Ishida duo the last living quincies) or it means the quincies withdrew from the World of the Living to a secret location beyond the World of the Living and the Ishida duo are the last quincies left outside the Vandenreich.

So, for now, this statement does not tell us whether the Vandenreich quincies are living or dead (or even a mixture); it does, however, given the question even more intrigue than it originally had. I'm therefore going to move on from that.

Now, Juhabach's announcement. How much more suspicious can this announcement get?

Not only is it strange that there's so little knowledge on Uryuu within the Stern Ritter given that the arc has built them up as a very efficient data collectors, but Kirge knew things about the Ishida family (things he both was and was not willing to discuss) and, given the way the Stern Ritter have reacted, the Ishida name means nothing to them. So, who was Kirge? Why did he seem to know more than the Stern Ritters do? What was his place in the hierarchy (and, no, pointing out he was the letter 'J' doesn't answer the question)?

And yet Juhabach clearly knows all about Uryuu. He knew about his existence, he knows his name, he knows the status of how many quincies are alive in the World of the Living (ignoring the fact that we don't know what definition of 'alive' we're using here). He even knows the truth about Uryuu's power... which apparently will be revealed now that Juhabach has awakened that power.

And this brings us to the big meaty crunch... the subject I've been banging on about ever since Kirge's fight with Ichigo: Kirge knew about Souken. He knew about Uryuu. He was willing to talk about Souken, and he was willing to talk about Uryuu. To a point anyway. And it was like Ryuuken never existed. Not even a whisper. Why? Why was Ryuuken blanked so completely?

It's just happened again, clear as day in this chapter and even less subtletly than in the Kirge/Ichigo conversation. Ryuuken does not exist to the Stern Ritter. Juhabach said Uryuu was the last quincy left in the world. Either there's a giant hole in Juhabach's knowledge or he just lied through his teeth. Given that it shouldn't be possible for Juhabach to know about Uryuu's existence without knowing at least something about the lineage he's come from, and especially since he seems so knowledgeable about Uryuu's great power, he has to know Uryuu's parentage.

And that means the most likely possibility is that he's just lied through his teeth to the Stern Ritter and, apparently, the Stern Ritter aren't allowed to know Ryuuken exists. Now, a week or so ago, I posted that there seems to be a deliberate contrast going on between Juhabach and Ryuuken. I even concluded with the comment that the contrast leaves me feeling like there isn't one quincy king, but there's actually two (or, perhaps more accurately, there isn't one person with the power of the quincy king, there's two people with the power of the quincy king). And now Uryuu is Juhabach's successor?

This brings us to an important question: what is really meant by 'successor'? What's meant by 'emperor' for that matter. What is the Quincy King? I have theories on that, theories that connect to the idea that perhaps there's more than one quincy with the power of a Quincy King and which therefore make Ryuuken's flashback desire to protect the future of the quincies very important and Souken's absence during the flashback arc also very important.

The other important question is... why. Why does Juhabach need a successor? What's the limitation on his future that makes him feel he needs to have one. And why the hell is he putting on such a display with a quincy that the story has indicated to the reader is a mixed-blood after the story has also told us that he's engaged in purges of mixed blood quincies and even impure pure-bloods? As red flags go, that's a huge one. The kind you can see planted on the moon. With the naked eye.

In short, to go back to my original question... what on earth is this 'successor' business?

I don't want to run off into a tangent at this point, but since I'm only discussing Juhabach's announcement right now, I have to make this observation: when Juhabach comments on Uryuu's true power, there's a big panel of Uryuu's face. And you know what his expression looks like to me? Sad. That does not automatically mean he's not brainwashed, but I think he's there of his own free will. I don't know whether it's the end goal he's hoping to achieve that makes him sad, or the path he's taking to achieve it that makes him sad. But, for someone who longed for so long to be a powerful quincy, who vowed to become powerful to change his father's mind about the quincies, the expression (during a conversation about him achieving his true power) should not be so sad. Yet it is. Solely because of Uryuu's expression, the entire page reads like an unfolding tragedy.

At this point, I'm beginning to come around to the idea that Uryuu has indeed learned the truth about his father's heart (I had it on the table from the flashback arc, but I wasn't sure I was entirely thrilled with the thought). Souken always said the truth would lead to him make an important decision about what he'd do with his quincy power, and Isshin's version of the tale isn't enough for that. It leaves questions. In fact, it raises questions. So I think Uryuu's been told something Ichigo has not been and, as Souken said, what we're seeing unfold is his decision.... what and why, remains a mystery. But suddenly, Uryuu doesn't look so happy to be a quincy anymore.

And then we have Buzby. He and Ikkaku were separated at birth, I'm sure of it. Except that Ikkaku isn't so nasty to his subordinates as this guy. That scene with the quincies is interesting for a lot of reasons. Not only because it reveals how in the dark they are about their leader, but also the kind of mistrust they're living under. There are quincies spying on the quincies? Juhabach does not trust his own men? Again, this raises the flag of the quincies as a group not necessarily being the final enemy, even if the leadership turns out to be. And there's not the indication they serve their leader out of the kind of loyalty that comes from love or respect or worship. They follow out of fear. That's the implication coming across... or at least, a lot of them do. That interesting fellow with the eye-on-a-stick might have genuine loyalty, or he might be the kind to have extreme loyalty from the 'subordinate bully' (remain in the bully's favour so other kids get bullied instead). That's fear, too. The pathetic kind. On top of that, he's spying openly... so not only is there the implication that Juhabach doesn't trust his men, but he wants them to know he doesn't trust them. That breeds mistrust and a culture of informing on each other. Familiar story, no? Considering the themes, it's hardly surprising, but it does keep an army fractured from uniting to oppose the leader (more on this in a moment).

And then we have Haschwalth, and even his first name, and a nickname! Boy, are we going to be dealing with him a bit in the future!

First thing to note with Haschwalth - the men assumed Haschwalth would be the Emperor's successor. So, nothing that's been explicitly announced, just an assumption. More importantly, we don't see any claim that Haschwalth himself believed he would be - what we're seeing is that the men assumed that Haschwalth assumed he would be the successor. Haschwalth himself is carefully not letting on what he might or might not have assumed and certainly not how he personally feels about Uryuu. Aren't politics fun?

More important than this, however, is the attitude of the men towards Haschwalth. There are two main types of general in a story - the kind that's abusing their power and trying to take over from the shadows, and the kind that's the loyal soldier, who has the respect and loyalty of the men, rather than the fear of them. And this is one of the things that makes this chapter so interesting: we see a the implication that Juhabach has taken Uryuu as his own and is personally grooming him, surrounded by an army that fear, rather love, the emperor and whose first impressions of Uryuu are very, very bad. And this is contrasted against the second-in-command who clearly has the personal respect, support and loyalty of the men who are getting angry with Uryuu because of their loyalty to Haschwalth. They feel Haschwalth has been insulted, and are reacting on that basis.

So, Juhabach's army follows Juhabach.... because Haschwalth does. And this again raises a flag with me that perhaps the quincies are not the final enemy. More importantly, the fate of the quincy army may rest on the decisions and beliefs of Haschwalth. I've already felt there's something going on with Haschwalth given his reactions to Ichigo's appearance in front of Juhabach at Soul Society. He seemed to care a great deal about how Juhabach treated Ichigo, and Juhabach did seem to notice. Even then, I felt we needed to know a lot more about who Haschwalth is and what role he's set up to play in this arc. I believe it's even more important now if this chapter's implication is right and that it's truly Haschwalth who commands the respect of the army, not Juhabach.

This is also important for another point: Kubo, in this chapter, is setting up Haschwalth as being a threat to Uryuu in terms of rivalry. And I'm not convinced by it at all. Haschwalth's men clearly want this to be the case and even are expecting this to be the case. They feel Haschwalth has been snubbed and that this cannot be ignored. With that other fellow spying on them (and so openly, too, see my earlier paragraph about the idea of Juhabach wanting a fractured army), Juhabach may even be expecting this. Perhaps he's even counting on it. We'll have to see.

However, appearances can be deceiving and, if Haschwalth is being set up from the start to look like Uryuu's rival and biggest threat, either Kubo's lost the ability to be subtle or Haschwalth is going to turn out to be Uryuu's ally. It already seems like Haschwalth has some kind of empathy for Ichigo and if Haschwalth is the key to the army's support for Juhabach, then what Haschwalth truly feels and what his true motives are for supporting Juhabach become very important. Especially for Uryuu. Especially if Uryuu is there of his own free will rather than through 're-education'.

So, we have names, we have letters, and I don't think we're going to learn what 'A' or 'B' represents for quite a while, since there's a lot of mystery surrounding the motives and behaviour of all three men involved with those two letters.

God, it feels good to have a chapter that's focused on plot in a political way instead of a fighting way.

But most of all, of the questions this chapter makes me ask, my biggest question has to be this: who the hell is Ryuuken Ishida? Why is it so important that the quincies don't know he exists? Because that's what I'm getting from this chapter: Juhabach absolutely does not want to admit to the other quincies that Ryuuken exists. And that has to beg the question, why?
 

Stat Flow

He gonna cry in the car
Bleach

I read this really insightful comment on Onemanga forums and i want to post it here. All credits goes to Milareppa
Love it.

This chapter was really good on the political side of things. I didn't pay attention to the introduction of names cause I thought that wasn't the point; seeing the structure of Bach's army was awesome. That, and Jugo is a really really interesting character.

I also love that Uryu hasn't said one single word since we've seen him onscreen again.
 

Wiseblade

Member
Naruto

What the hell is the point of pulling the "it was only an illusion!" trick if you're only going to do the exact same thing at the end of the chapter anyway, Kishi? The final pages are made irrelevant by the foolishness that precedes them.
 

Tathanen

Get Inside Her!
See, I don't buy into the concept of chakra, considering how wildly inconsistent it is in part 2. Obito has been spamming fairly powerful skills from the get go and it's impossible to determine what his limit is (he hasn't explicitly said he's out of chakra).

The problem with point B: Obito is absolutely determined to achieve his goal. Nothing else matters to him, which is why I think it's unreasonable he'd throw it all away to have one final dual with Kakashi. He was willing to throw the whole world into turmoil and kill anyone who got in his way. I absolutely expected him through everything he had at Kakashi, and he didn't.

While point A is just speculation, point B I think has some merit. Kakashi puts his fingers up as a challenge, effectively "come face me now in single combat." Obito stands for a second, then returns the signal, agreeing to the challenge. It may not be an explicit "I'll beat you cause of our kid shit," but it was at least "I accept your challenge to fight you like this." And it's not like Obito has fought other fights with nuclear blasts as his first attack, he's done plenty of drawn out stuff. He wasn't handicapping himself here, he was just gonna fight Kakashi, and he did. Is the core issue that people have just that he didn't try to fire off a shinra tensei or gigantic wood dragon as his first attack?

Because it's not like Obito got hugely overwhelmed here or anything like that. They fought for like 10 seconds. Obito shot a fireball. They clashed weapons. Obito got kicked. They stabbed through each other. There was no "weak" Obito here, it was just a quick skirmish where the shared stabs ended up more damaging on one end than the other. It was a quick fight, but it maybe it ended sooner than people wanted. You can have all of the huge amazing techniques in the world, but if you hastily find yourself in a shared chest-stab early on, they don't count for much. Not all fights require the participants to go down their jutsu checklists and mark them off in order. Maybe if Obito felt like he was being overwhelmed he would have moved on to larger attacks, but things just moved too fast to even get to that.

[Edit] Also, Obito ended the fight with "you can have this victory, but I won't let you win the war." That sounds more in keeping with his character, with his actual priorities. Maybe he could've kept fighting, maybe he could've used more chakra to heal that hole, since he has a Zetsu body. Maybe he woulda bust out all his crazy shit then. But he said "you can have it." And he left. Because he had more important shit to do. And then Madara fucked him up.
 
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