-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
March Wrasslin |OT| Road To WrassleMania
- Thread starter Mr. Sam
- Start date
- Status
Watching Smackdown, and yet again, Bryan's promos is the best part, he's hysterical.
I really wish WWE would give their faces more bite. I know it's PG, but that doesn't men all the faces have to be neutered and lame Cena types. CM Punk and Orton are about the only non goody two shoes faces.
Sheamus is very obviously holding back in any promo, the lame material he's getting isn't sparking this feud at all. They seem determined to make him a boring Cena sequel of a face instead of making a more interesting character. If you really want him to come across as a badass face, just have him kick Bryan in the face instead. That's the sort of thing people cheer Orton for, after all.
At least the match will be great.
I really wish WWE would give their faces more bite. I know it's PG, but that doesn't men all the faces have to be neutered and lame Cena types. CM Punk and Orton are about the only non goody two shoes faces.
Sheamus is very obviously holding back in any promo, the lame material he's getting isn't sparking this feud at all. They seem determined to make him a boring Cena sequel of a face instead of making a more interesting character. If you really want him to come across as a badass face, just have him kick Bryan in the face instead. That's the sort of thing people cheer Orton for, after all.
At least the match will be great.
Listen up ere' fella', I appreciate da advice, and I will take it under consideration from here on out when posting in da wrestling and dubya-dubya-ee thread.
I appreciate and respect that because this is what it's all about! Posting here live for all of the WG Universe!
No grander stage has been set in all of wrasslin' history!
D
Deleted member 8095
Unconfirmed Member
I love Sheamus. Much prefer him as a heel though.
I thought he was a fun face for a while, but they didn't use him in an interesting way, which can be said for Orton and Cena. Just because you're a face, doesn't mean you have to become a beige, bland, boring character.
A good face has a hard edge, but always does "the right thing," like CM Punk, The Rock, Stone Cold, etc.
Punk's face run throughout the Triple H, Johnny Ace, and now Jericho stuff still hasn't been up to snuff. To be honest it's been rather boring. Granted all the feuds that have gone on in between these events haven't been very good, either, so perhaps it is that. They are in dire need of faces, though. You got John Cena, Randy Orton (both who are stale as fuck, no matter face or heel), CM Punk, Sin Cara... uh, Zack Ryder, Santino, Big Show, Kofi Kingston, R-Truth, um... god that's such a terrible list. The heels are better, but even then they are jobbed to hell and back because of piss poor booking. Del Rio and Swagger, both fairly talented guys in the ring, get their title reigns booked extremely bad, and makes them look like losers. Can they drop the Kurt Angle-lite shit with Jack already? The Ankle Lock stuff is so forced. His gutwrench was pretty good for itself.
There's nothing wrong with Punk as a face, he just doesn't have anything to work with. The Triple H/Kevin Nash storyline was terrible. Nothing he could do about it except entertain me.
Best in the World feud is awesome.
He is a better heel though, only because he's the best heel in the world.
You know, I will admit that CM can do better, but what's he supposed to do if the WWE won't throw him a bone?
I thought the HHH feud was okay, with the possibility to go places, but they axed it too soon, the Johnny Ace feud was mediocre at best, the Ziggler side-feud was pretty solid though.
I mean, how can they develop the Jericho/Punk feud when they give half of the damn show to the Rock and Cena talking to each other? Now that was stale as fuck. The Rock had some okay points, but almost everything felt flat.
Swagger needs a major shakeup. While he sucks on the mic, he's a good wrestler. Give him all new attire, drop the Angle-Lite crap, new music, etc.
Pristine_Condition
Member
Well, he is winning matches too. And he is getting over with the crowds. He played a good babyface in peril during that six-man, and made all the heels' offense looked good. I haven't heard a WWE crowd react that way to three guys kicking the shit outta somebody in a while.
Now in his promo vs. Bryan, he did seem a bit vanilla, but D-Bry is on such a roll right now.
Imagine that, WWE...you can get a guy over by having him win matches! Startling development.
He was cool when he first turned face and was face simply because he fought heels and was badass. As per usual they neutered him into kid friendly (read: boring) territory.
He's still one of their best big man wrestlers, and (like Bryan) works best in lengthier matches where he breaks out of his regular "once a match" moveset and mixes it up with more interesting moves and counters. While he can toss Bryan around, like other big men Bryan's faced, he's actually athletic and flexible enough to actually, you know, do stuff, unlike Big Show. So their styles compliment each other perfectly.
Orton is similar actually. He works best with long matches that he varies his moveset for (especially in his second match against an opponent, where they revisit some previous spots but change it up). In short TV matches he gets repetitive, since he has a LOT of once-a-match signature moves that all gets used.
Indeed, he's over with the crowd most when he's in a match or brawl and kicking the shit out of people. So all you need do really is have Bryan keep pissing him off and getting him angry, and poof, more fire in the feud (which currently is only happening because its scheduled to happen, they don't seem to have any particular beef with each other).
Of course...the writers being what they are, there's the danger of them doing the dreaded Cena thing for a face Sheamus, where every feud is impersonal, and he doesn't really take much notice of his opponents individually. They'd fucking better not. In the long run it completely ruins the face AND his opponents.
One of the best recent Orton matches I remember is when he faced Christian in that no DQ pay-per-view match. That was a long match, that I honestly wasn't sure who the winner was going to be, and everything was done and sold quite well.
Oh yeah, something that came to mind. Despite the fact that the Supershow format renders it fairly meaningless, I'm assuming they're going to have the Draft go ahead as usual after WM.
So what do people think might be the major changes?
Since Santino is a SD guy and now US champ, I'm going to make a guess and say Cody is going to retain the IC title at WM and move to RAW afterwards, to switch the titles around.
So what do people think might be the major changes?
Since Santino is a SD guy and now US champ, I'm going to make a guess and say Cody is going to retain the IC title at WM and move to RAW afterwards, to switch the titles around.
UberTag
Member
In terms of match quality, Christian vs. Orton was the best WWE feud of 2011. In fact, I'd be hard-pressed to think of a feud from 2010 or 2012 that comes close.
(Clearly when you factor in other companies you'd have to give consideration to Richards vs. Edwards and some others.)
Are you the guy from the beginning of the latest botchamania?
mechashiva
Member
NoRéN;35901514 said:
No but his claim about being the only magician wrestler is pretty solid since I'm not that good at either. That was the first I had heard of that guy thought it was pretty interesting.
D
Deleted member 8095
Unconfirmed Member
Punk is kind of in a tough spot. He isn't the best face in the world and that's not good considering Jericho is one of the best heels of all time.
I thought he was great in his tenure on ECW. Granted he was the "new guy", but he actually was taken for granted. I guess when your show has guys that get booked way better and your job is to mainly get beaten by joke characters and whatnot, what can you do? I'm not sure he needs repackaged, but the Angle-lite stuff definitely needs dropped. He can stay with Vickie, so he doesn't need to talk.
I thought the finale of Punk-Ziggler made Ziggler look like a loser. Total bullcrap ending. Otherwise, yeah, it had nice matches, but it didn't really do much for either guy.
Nocturnowl
Member
If there's one thing I really dislike about the Angle Light thing they do for Swagger it's the fact that the ankle lock just doesn't suit him, Swagger's a pretty big guy, if he's going to use a submission finisher he could do so much more than the ankle lock, plus he lacks the tenacity Angle had when he applied it and Swaggers version has damn near zero credibility. I'd like them to focus more on the power side of things with Swagger, the further he can get away from being "Jangle" the better since i'm sure that when most of us are reminded of Kurt when watching Swagger it's in the form of "Swagger isn't as good as Angle".
If it must be a leg submission, it ought to be something like the Texas Cloverleaf rather than the one legged Ankle Lock (which he always does the same way, standing, no lying down, no kneeling, no changing it up).
BillRiccio
Member
You use the gimmick better. I still say you should try and get booked by CHIKARA to fued with Icarus!
Feud with him!
British Monsoon
Member
This. Just make him 'Dr Death' lite (I doubt most modern WWE fans remember Steve Williams) and give him a whole bunch of suplex variations (and actually make Cole CALL the damn moves), maybe the Oklahoma Stampede too, in tribute to Williams.
Cole will just call the same move by different names.
"Jackknife Suplex"
"Jackknife Powerbomb"
"Modified Suplex"
British Monsoon
Member
Probably, either than or he'll just go "What a throw!".
God, I hate Cole so very, very much.
God, I hate Cole so very, very much.
funkystudent
Member
worst part about Mania this year is we have Rock vs Cena. A once in a decade match. HHH vs Taker. the epic final(?) match of 2 of the post prolific wrestlers of the last 20 years and CM ounk vs Y2J a guaranteed 5 star wrestling match..... All will be automatically worse since Cole will be commentating.
JR can just made things seem more epic... ya know? Even when cole is just call the match with out doing his heel character he still doesnt get into it like JR does. Its that raw excitement that just gets people pumped and makes things seem grander then they actually are.
Matt Striker was the closet they had to that so fuck King and Cole for not wanting to work with him.
Matt Striker marking out for Danial Bryans return was great.
Those leaked pics of him really set his career back.
JR can just made things seem more epic... ya know? Even when cole is just call the match with out doing his heel character he still doesnt get into it like JR does. Its that raw excitement that just gets people pumped and makes things seem grander then they actually are.
Matt Striker was the closet they had to that so fuck King and Cole for not wanting to work with him.
Matt Striker marking out for Danial Bryans return was great.
Those leaked pics of him really set his career back.
Striker and Matthews were honestly the future of the commentary and J.R. could've brought them to that level, but instead we'll have Cole shutting everyone out, going off topic and then when the other commentators indulge him he'll just tell them to call the match like they're supposed to.
Also +1 to fuck King
Also +1 to fuck King
Honestly, I love JR, but I don't think he's the answer. They do need to go young, but King honestly is a bigger problem than Cole. He's made it explicitly clear that he barely has any interest in the product, and it shows, horribly. Pair Cole up with Booker or Striker. Striker was annoying, but if he can tone down the smark crap, he's good. He actually broke down a match, and made it seem believable.
Cole wasn't that bad when on SD! with Taz or JBL, it's just the new direction and being paired up with King that's fucked him up.
Cole wasn't that bad when on SD! with Taz or JBL, it's just the new direction and being paired up with King that's fucked him up.
JR could make any match seem like the best thing ever.
If he's not commentating the Taker/HHH match (you know, the "end of the last remnants of the Attitude Era") at the least, it will be disgraceful.
He of course ought to be doing all of it, I'd settle for him doing the main events.
I just think that for the year's most important night, they should have their best commentator there for it. The Rock/Cena match needs someone to hype it up, and Cole and Lawler are about as effective at hyping things up as Miz is at being intimating.
If he's not commentating the Taker/HHH match (you know, the "end of the last remnants of the Attitude Era") at the least, it will be disgraceful.
He of course ought to be doing all of it, I'd settle for him doing the main events.
He's not a fix all solution, obviously, and he's 60, he can't be doing it forever.
I just think that for the year's most important night, they should have their best commentator there for it. The Rock/Cena match needs someone to hype it up, and Cole and Lawler are about as effective at hyping things up as Miz is at being intimating.
When they were going through that charade of heel Cole and how he should've been managing somebody instead of berating the wrestlers and pushing the angle, Matthews-Striker-Booker would've been a fine trio on Smackdown. JR-King on Raw even though King himself is full of piss. Still beats the commentary we hear week after week now. That was never going to happen since Cole is Vince's little puppet.
Why does everyone hate King? It's not just here but in other communities.
When you all are saying you hate King, are you talking about the bland King that is on the air today, paired with Cole, who is also bland, or King's overall commentary career?
I thought the guy was a great heel announcer back in the day. He had that kind of annoying voice that he could pitch right, but it was never to over the top. Maybe it was better because J.R. always complemented him as the voice of reason though.
When you all are saying you hate King, are you talking about the bland King that is on the air today, paired with Cole, who is also bland, or King's overall commentary career?
I thought the guy was a great heel announcer back in the day. He had that kind of annoying voice that he could pitch right, but it was never to over the top. Maybe it was better because J.R. always complemented him as the voice of reason though.
Of course we're talking about him now. He was amazing back in the day, when he actually cared.
King used to say that JR used to make him prepare before the show, and they would go over how they would commentate, and what points they would focus on, and bring up. He's said that Cole doesn't do any of that, and they just mainly wing it, which is how he prefers it.
cartoon_soldier
Member
JR just made everything better.
Punk's amazing face run got neutralized by HHH and then Vince.
For Vince, WM is all about Cena vs Rock and HHH vs Taker. Punk vs Y2J is there, he doesn't care if they build it up properly or not.
The current King is a complete waste of space. Now, King himself is a bit of a prick and always has been, but as a heel commentator it was warranted.
He was a good heel announcer back in the day as he was annoying and you hated him, but he never actually detracted from the show, he just gave you a heel that was fun to hate, and some balance to the broadcast. Pair him with play-by-play's best JR and you had a great announce team.
I'm afraid I'm not too versed in his matches from earlier in his career, but by all accounts he was a fine wrestler back in the day, and for his age and shape today he can still pull off a decent match (he had a few good matches with Miz last year).
However, he gives precisely two shits about he product, and is worthless as a face commentator.
British Monsoon
Member
Striker is fine when calling the action, he has great reactions and sounds very believable, but it was whenever he engaged in conversation that things fell apart (or, when he was "marking out, bro!"). Matthews does a good job as the colour commentator, but I guess the problem with him is that he pointed out the flaws in Cole's/WWE's bullshit logic on multiple occasions.
Also, King should 100% not be commentating any more. He's done and he doesn't give the slightest of shits about the product. He sounds entirely disinterested, so either make him the heel announcer, or shit can him.
Personally, I'd go with JR (play by play), Matthews (colour) & Cole (heel) on RAW, Striker (play by play), Matthews (colour) & King (heel) on Smackdown.
Also, King should 100% not be commentating any more. He's done and he doesn't give the slightest of shits about the product. He sounds entirely disinterested, so either make him the heel announcer, or shit can him.
Personally, I'd go with JR (play by play), Matthews (colour) & Cole (heel) on RAW, Striker (play by play), Matthews (colour) & King (heel) on Smackdown.
HarryDemeanor
Member
Current King is bland. Right as he went from heel to face he has lost everything that made him entertaining.
King has said in interviews he doesn't even like commentating very much, let alone the product he's doing it for. He'd rather be wrestling.
funkystudent
Member
I do understand why WWE might not want to use JR much.
he is getting old. he has had health problems and really they should have new voices on commentary.
Honestly they should get King out as well.
But yeah... Striker was awesome. WWE thinks they want someone who will say exactly what they are told in there headset... thats not what they need. They need someone who can do that but also has some passion and can get actually excited for the big moments.
If CM punk tore something and was made a permanent announcer I wouldnt be completely bummed out by that.
he is getting old. he has had health problems and really they should have new voices on commentary.
Honestly they should get King out as well.
But yeah... Striker was awesome. WWE thinks they want someone who will say exactly what they are told in there headset... thats not what they need. They need someone who can do that but also has some passion and can get actually excited for the big moments.
If CM punk tore something and was made a permanent announcer I wouldnt be completely bummed out by that.
Okay, that's what I figured, but I wanted to be sure.
I really wish that the WWE gave the announcers a little more leeway. If you watch today, both guys go silent when someone returns or a big moment happen, and then when a scripted "accident" or "injury" they use their "Owen Hart voice" and try to make the show somber and depressing, then they turn it around to propmote Slim-Jims, a divas match, and the Muppet Movie like a minute later.
I just feel like the show has completely lost its identity. Is it trying to be edgy? Is it trying to be more story driven? Is it trying to be more wrestling based? I feel like that the show had a clear vision throughout the late 90's till the early 00's. I mean, look at the whole Cena situation. Look at the crowds today. The cheers and boos are weak in most cities because most guys can't get heat.
I really wish that the WWE gave the announcers a little more leeway. If you watch today, both guys go silent when someone returns or a big moment happen, and then when a scripted "accident" or "injury" they use their "Owen Hart voice" and try to make the show somber and depressing, then they turn it around to propmote Slim-Jims, a divas match, and the Muppet Movie like a minute later.
I just feel like the show has completely lost its identity. Is it trying to be edgy? Is it trying to be more story driven? Is it trying to be more wrestling based? I feel like that the show had a clear vision throughout the late 90's till the early 00's. I mean, look at the whole Cena situation. Look at the crowds today. The cheers and boos are weak in most cities because most guys can't get heat.
- Status