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[British Monsoon]

The Ascension are an utterly unremarkable heavyweight tag team - I honestly can't recall a single match of theirs, other than the one where Davey Richards got dropped on his head. I have no problem with the look or the lack of a more detailed gimmick, I just find them incredibly dull in the ring.

Now, The Killer Elite Squad? Probably the best heavyweight tag team in the world, for my money - and they're two guys WWE had no use for and let slip through their fingers. Also, their theme music rocks;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HFYo1Ts3n4

 

[strobogo]

So I'm going through and watching every WCW PPV in order (mostly because I was purely a WWF fan growing up) and so far they've been pretty crappy. Thoughts on what I've seen:

Starcade '83: Crappy show. Hardly any good matches minus the Steamboat match. The Flair title match was OK, but the finish was awful. Too much blading. The Piper/Valentine match was pretty good, I guess. Gordon Solie annoys me SO MUCH when he called a "suplex" a "su-play." What is up with that? The production is awful. Why did I watch this?

Starcade '84: Ugh. So much blading (in plain sight of the camera, mind you). Crappy matches. Main event had an awful, awful finish.

Starcade '85: OK, so far, I guess. I don't remember what I've watched. Everything is forgettable.

Random thoughts overall: The concept of false finishes obviously DID NOT exist back then. Matches just randomly end with filler moves (snap mares, CHOPS, etc.). It's so bizarre. There's no climax. No build up to the finish. They just happen. Randomly. So odd. It really kills the excitement for me. I never feel like I'm watching an end of match. I've had to rewind several matches because I missed the finish.

Blading. OMG! Everyone blades. FOR NO REASON. 2 minute match? LET'S BLADE! And it's not like they try to hide it either -- on every show I've watched so far you can clearly see the dudes blading in plain sight. It's just bizarre. And gross. Blood in a match works if there's a reason. Randomly blading MINUTES into a match is just stupid. Especially when there's blood in practically every match.

The production is also awful. Sound issues. Camera issues. Lighting issues. Issues overall. But it was early '80's.

BTW: I'm so happy to watch these old-ass PPVs so my complaints aren't as nasty as they sound.

Early Starrcades suck. You should have started with the 1988 shows. It gets much better, although the production doesn't improve a lot until the early 90s. It's much darker and grimier than the WWF at the same period, and the wrestling reflects that as well.

 

[Kaladin]

Yep.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

For most people in the UK this will be the earliest memories of WCW.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L36RigOxcps

 

[Serpentine]

Rick Victor - or just 'Viktor' these days - has had a thirteen year career that started in the Hart Dungeon.

man, it does not show.

What lengthy, good matches have they ever had? Curtis Axel also got a reaction in NXT for the weird noises he made, but it didn't mean he was over.

dawg rick victor vs. corey graves is an nxt classic

Random thoughts overall: The concept of false finishes obviously DID NOT exist back then. Matches just randomly end with filler moves (snap mares, CHOPS, etc.). It's so bizarre. There's no climax. No build up to the finish. They just happen. Randomly. So odd. It really kills the excitement for me. I never feel like I'm watching an end of match. I've had to rewind several matches because I missed the finish.

I feel like this should happen more often, especially to jobbers. like, Rick Victor can randomly end one of the many no-names he faces with a flapjack or maybe a backdrop driver

 

[Nocturnowl]

When was Barrett's last match?

Is this guy ever getting in the ring again?

I do love the BNB segments though

I think his last match on tv was against Daniel Bryan in a steel cage on Smackdown back last September, it was like in between Raw segments against Orton and the Authority Bryan had this mini feud with Barrett on Smackdown, when that ended Barrett vanished off tv.

Looking back that whole fist fighter gimmick went absolutely nowhere fast so in a way BNB is somehow working out better for him with zero matches.

 

[Spider from Mars]

Now, The Killer Elite Squad? Probably the best heavyweight tag team in the world, for my money - and they're two guys WWE had no use for and let slip through their fingers. Also, their theme music rocks;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HFYo1Ts3n4

Ten-Koji are better than KES

 

[British Monsoon]

Solie calls a suplex a 'suplay' because the origins of the word come from the French 'souplesse' (flexibility) and that's what it's called in Greco-Roman wrestling. Also, Solie rules.

Ten-Koji are better than KES

A decade ago? Sure. Today? Not so much. I'm a huge Tenzan fan, but he's done. Kojima's still got some fire left in him, but it hasn't been enough to make TenKoji's matches in recent years as memorable as they should be.

 

[BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!]

Yep.

I don't…understand.

What…is life?

 

[Edgeward]

Viktor also has shown recently in the past months of not even being aware of who the legal man to pin is.

 

[strobogo]

I think BNB has been on Superstars in the past 3 months. But does Superstars really count?

Solie calls a suplex a 'suplay' because the origins of the word come from the French 'souplesse' (flexibility) and that's what it's called in Greco-Roman wrestling.

Gordon bores the fuck out of me. I'll never know why JR considers him to be the best. He sounds bored and/or drunk at all times. Ultra, ultra dry. I MUCH prefer Lance Russel for that style of commentator.

 

[Dork Knight]

Early Starrcades suck. You should have started with the 1988 shows. It gets much better, although the production doesn't improve a lot until the early 90s. It's much darker and grimier than the WWF at the same period, and the wrestling reflects that as well.

Yeah, I CAN'T WAIT to get to the cheesy '90's WCW. But I really like the idea of watching all old PPVs in order so I can get a sense of how the company evolved over time (who was on top, who got better/worse, etc.).

The production part really kills it for me -- the arena just looks so dark and uninviting. Which is weird because I've watched some YouTube matches from Japan around the same time and the production over there was phenomenal. Dammit, Crockett -- get your shit together!

 

[Mr. Sam]

What lengthy, good matches have they ever had? Curtis Axel also got a reaction in NXT for the weird noises he made, but it didn't mean he was over.

I think Curtis likely was over with the Florida crowd, they're a different animal to the regular WWE crowd and I'm assuming he was a different wrestler at the time. I can't really comment - I wasn't watching NXT when he was there.

The Ascension certainly are over there, though that obviously doesn't necessarily mean they'll be over on the main stage. I should hope so though.

As far lengthy, good matches, both their matches with Neville/Graves are examples. Even their most recent match with Too Cool was a decent length.

I won't deny that they're designed as a squash team - almost by necessity, considering NXT's sparsity of tag teams - but to suggest that two wrestlers of that pedigree are only 'capable' of squash matches is ludicrous.

 

[Mr. Luchador]

Looking back that whole fist fighter gimmick went absolutely nowhere fast so in a way BNB is somehow working out better for him with zero matches.

I liked it, but you're right - there was nowhere for it go as there were no 'strong' faces to fight against. It was just really misplaced and timed.

 

[Serpentine]

I think his last match on tv was against Daniel Bryan in a steel cage on Smackdown back last September, it was like in between Raw segments against Orton and the Authority Bryan had this mini feud with Barrett on Smackdown, when that ended Barrett vanished off tv.

Looking back that whole fist fighter gimmick went absolutely nowhere fast so in a way BNB is somehow working out better for him with zero matches.

ya, it was after Barrett tried to shave Bryan and he failed so hard he ended up with his own beard shaved

the bare-knuckle brawler thing didn't work because he was literally the same, except with a new finisher, a new beard, and a new theme. he still kept going for Wasteland, and the Bullhammer sucked for a long time

 

[Spider from Mars]

A decade ago? Sure. Today? Not so much. I'm a huge Tenzan fan, but he's done. Kojima's still got some fire left in him, but it hasn't been enough to make TenKoji's matches in recent years as memorable as they should be.

Oh yeah? Well who won in their 2013 G1 Tag League match? Huh? Huh? Thought so!

Spoiler

Tenzan should retire

 

[lovely ladies]

ya, it was after Barrett tried to shave Bryan and he failed so hard he ended up with his own beard shaved

the bare-knuckle brawler thing didn't work because he was literally the same, except with a new finisher, a new beard, and a new theme. he still kept going for Wasteland, and the Bullhammer sucked for a long time

His feud with Bo Dallas killed his career.

 

[Serpentine]

he should start using the Ghetto Blaster as a finisher, because why the fuck not

 

[spindashing]

Yep.

 

[bean breath]

How many entrance themes has Wade Barrett had since he debuted?

 

[Plywood]

BNB is the only thing to make me care about Wade.

 

[Nocturnowl]

I liked it, but you're right - there was nowhere for it go as there were no 'strong' faces to fight against. It was just really misplaced and timed.

I think there was a real missed opportunity to have at least a one month feud with WHC Sheamus shortly after Barrett's return with the whole striking focus and all but I guess that interfered with the year of ADR/Sheamus matches.

ya, it was after Barrett tried to shave Bryan and he failed so hard he ended up with his own beard shaved

the bare-knuckle brawler thing didn't work because he was literally the same, except with a new finisher, a new beard, and a new theme. he still kept going for Wasteland, and the Bullhammer sucked for a long time

I still think they should have kept the name "souvenir" for the elbow strike.
No one could peg a Barrett gimmick change with a new theme, in the Corre alone he had like 4 themes.
Oh man, the Corre, that was some bad news right there.

 

[bean breath]

BNB is the only thing to make me care about Wade.

For me it was his tweets about the Royal Baby.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

The Ascension are an utterly unremarkable heavyweight tag team - I honestly can't recall a single match of theirs, other than the one where Davey Richards got dropped on his head. I have no problem with the look or the lack of a more detailed gimmick, I just find them incredibly dull in the ring.

Now, The Killer Elite Squad? Probably the best heavyweight tag team in the world, for my money - and they're two guys WWE had no use for and let slip through their fingers. Also, their theme music rocks;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HFYo1Ts3n4

WWE wouldn't let them wrestle that style though, which is a shame. Both of them have really come into their own, and Lance Archer really looks great paired up with those leetle people. DBS Jr should never come back to North America, he's PERFECT for Japan.

 

[Serpentine]

I think there was a real missed opportunity to have at least a one month feud with WHC Sheamus shortly after Barrett's return with the whole striking focus and all but I guess that interfered with the year of ADR/Sheamus matches.



I still think they should have kept the name "souvenir" for the elbow strike.
No one could peg a Barrett gimmick change with a new theme, in the Corre alone he had like 4 themes.
Oh man, the Corre, that was some bad news right there.

But then what would Kofi Kingston have done for a few months?!?!?!?!

 

[Nocturnowl]

But then what would Kofi Kingston have done for a few months?!?!?!?!

I'll have to consult the Kofi Clock to find out.

 

[slightconfuse]

Remember when Kofi pinned Randy clean 2 months ago

 

[strobogo]

Yeah, I CAN'T WAIT to get to the cheesy '90's WCW. But I really like the idea of watching all old PPVs in order so I can get a sense of how the company evolved over time (who was on top, who got better/worse, etc.).

The production part really kills it for me -- the arena just looks so dark and uninviting. Which is weird because I've watched some YouTube matches from Japan around the same time and the production over there was phenomenal. Dammit, Crockett -- get your shit together!

I like the JCP era look. I like the bright and colorful world of the WWF in 1989, but I also like the dark and smokey arenas with the lights being just on the ring. The in ring style in JCP/WCW was definitely much grittier and smash mouth. My nostalgia makes me lean towards WWF, but I do love the NWA look and style from the same period. Way more lariatooos. The WWF really had that same look until 1987 or so when everything got much brighter. When you look at any footage of the actual Rock and Wrestling period, it is all dark arenas with no frills and lights only on the ring.

 

[Kaladin]

I'm sure as it was happening, Mania 6 was a good to great show with a hype main event....but years later, it's just all filler undercard with a legendary main event that is great in the context of the show because the show itself is so bad....but by itself it's just kind of a good match.

 

[Laserfrog]

Thesz is unimpressed by Bischoff

 

[bean breath]

Remember when Kofi pinned Randy clean 2 months ago

Was that before or after he debuted his "skills" S hand gesture?

 

[SoulPlaya]

Keibler's starting to look like a gold digger.

Starting?

 

[Recall]

WWF No Way Out 2001 is still an incredible PPV. So many brilliant matches.

 

[Spider from Mars]

I'm sure as it was happening, Mania 6 was a good to great show with a hype main event....but years later, it's just all filler undercard with a legendary main event that is great in the context of the show because the show itself is so bad....but by itself it's just kind of a good match.

Their criss cross rope running will never get old

 

[strobogo]

I'm sure as it was happening, Mania 6 was a good to great show with a hype main event....but years later, it's just all filler undercard with a legendary main event that is great in the context of the show because the show itself is so bad....but by itself it's just kind of a good match.

But it wasn't a filler undercard. Most of it, at least. It was really a supercard of territory matches. Anything that had more than a few minutes had a multi month build and the show really needs all the promo work to get into it I think.


Also, compare Warrior/Hogan to either Rock/Cena match and see how much better Warrior and Hogan were at EVERYTHING in their match. Them, their effort, and the lay out of the match. It's one of the best "epics" WWE has ever produced. And Hulk was killer with his elbow drops.

 

[Lambda Pie]

i kid you not, the happiest i saw Thesz has an old man was in Japan for the UWFi matches.

 

[bean breath]

Thesz is unimpressed by Bischoff

Why'd ya keep goin on about Thesz for?

 

[Spider from Mars]

We need a WCW style reset on all the wrasslegaf gimmicks

 

[Rapstah]

But it wasn't a filler undercard. Most of it, at least. It was really a supercard of territory matches. Anything that had more than a few minutes had a multi month build and the show really needs all the promo work to get into it I think.

Doesn't all of this apply to WM1 too?

 

[lovely ladies]

Starting?

She's coming for Kane next

 

[Kaladin]

I think that's the last gif I do before the main event....this is just too brutal to add gifing time to watching and reviewing.

 

[strobogo]

Doesn't all of this apply to WM1 too?

Eh. I don't think so. Wrestlemania 1 was basically a MGS house show with some celebrities and on closed circuit. I have no idea how it was so successful.

 

[British Monsoon]

i kid you not, the happiest i saw Thesz has an old man was in Japan for the UWFi matches.

He loved the UWFi style, so it's not all that surprising. His biggest problem with Japanese wrestling, post Inoki & Fujinami's heights of popularity, was the style guys like Choshu and Jumbo employed. Not to mention, the rising popularity of jr. heayweight wrestling in the country. However, if Thesz hadn't so publicly badmouthed Choshu, then perhaps Riki wouldn't have utterly buried the UWFi in their feud with New Japan - iirc, UWFi were forced to agree to the deal because they were in deep financial trouble and Choshu insisted he be given creative control. People are still salty about that - I post a Choshu match on twitter and am guaranteed to get replies like "fuck Choshu for killing UWF".

 

[Data West]

Thesz and Bruno both seem like bitter old dudes.

At least Gotch seemed like a fun troublemaker

 

[SoulPlaya]

She's coming for Kane next

Did you know that Stacy Keibler actually admitted that she had a crush on Kane when she debuted in the WWE, simply because she had never met a huge wrestling star that was so kind to her?

 

[DMczaf]

 

[Laserfrog]

Why'd ya keep goin on about Thesz for?

Because it makes me happy.

 

[strobogo]

Thesz and Bruno both seem like bitter old dudes.

At least Gotch seemed like a fun troublemaker

Bruno doesn't seem bitter at all, at least not for the past 10 years or so. He did seem like a bitter old man during the Attitude Era and few years of the brand split, both for the content of the show and how his contributions were completely buried and ignored for decades. He seems super happy now though.

 

[SoulPlaya]

Wow, this is easily the greatest moment of Cesaro's career.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzKxCVNsF5U

 

[DMczaf]

#swerve