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[Data West]

 

[klonere]

I was quoting the OP who mentioned Punk's numbers.

And not wrong about Hogan, brother.

Okay so let's take this one step at a time.

Gorgeous George

His first television appearance took place on November 11, 1947 (an event that was recently named among the top 100 televised acts of the 20th century by Entertainment Weekly) and he immediately became a national celebrity at the same level of Lucille Ball and Bob Hope (who personally donated hundreds of chic robes for George's collection)

it was Gorgeous George who single-handedly established television as a viable entertainment medium that could potentially reach millions of homes across the country. It is said that George was probably responsible for selling as many television receivers as Milton Berle.

So what Hulk Hogan did for PPV, Gorgeous George did for the entire concept of TV as a consumer good and entertainment medium!

Let's try Rikidōzan

He was credited with bringing the sport of professional wrestling to Japan at a time when the Japanese needed a local hero to emulate and was lauded as a national hero

His October 6, 1957 sixty-minute draw with Lou Thesz for the NWA World Heavyweight Championship drew an 87.0 rating, and his May 24, 1963 sixty-minute two out of three falls draw with The Destroyer drew a 67.0 rating, but a larger viewing audience (the largest in Japanese history) than the previous match, since more people had television sets by 1963.

Rikidōzan also trained professional wrestling students, including soon-to-be wrestling legends Kanji "Antonio" Inoki, Ooki Kintaro, and Shohei "Giant" Baba.

Seems like a cultural star that everyone from fans to your hypothetical Japanese granny would know about.

Let's go to old Britain shall we?

Big Daddy had his own comic strip in Buster during the early 1980s drawn by Mike Lacey. In 1982 ITV planned to build a TV programme around 'Big Daddy' as a replacement for the popular children's Saturday morning Tiswas show

During his career, Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and Queen Elizabeth II said they were fans of 'Big Daddy'.

He advertised tomato ketchup on television, appeared on Surprise, Surprise, featured on This is Your Life, was interviewed by Terry Wogan, had his own fan club and did a lot of charity work especially with children.

Back to Japan for the one of the most important figures in Hogan's career, Antonio Inoki. Instead of big block quotes, let's go with some bullet points

- Elected politician, multiple times
- Kind of invented MMA
- Founded NJPW
- Him no longer being in the spotlight lead a severe reduction in interest in TV wrestling outside of Tokyo and Osaka.

 

[Sephzilla]

^ indie flippy shit

 

[Zach]

Was he on something? That aint normal.

Probably. I haven't grilled him about it yet. I'm just getting secondhand info right now. I'll wait until he cools down and others aren't badgering about details before I ask how everything went down. Or he'll just tell me soon. That's probably what will happen.

 

[shanafan]

Okay so let's take this one step at a time.

.

Well, I guess you are right. Vince McMahon and Hulk Hogan didn't accomplish anything close to these facts. Guess that means I'm done here. Enjoy Wrestlemania and the future, maggles!

 

[Pizoxuat]

There should be collections for Harashima and Ibushi, which is a good place to start. DDT Judgement 2017 was really fun if it was uneven as a whole. Last 4 matches and Irie/Bailey should be watched. Shuji Ishikawa vs Harashima title match from 4/12/16. Then if you're in the mood for goofy shit just look for the "street" tag. http://ddtuniverse.com/search?tag=TAG&type=PR&id=330

Thank you!

 

[klonere]

Well, I guess you are right. Vince McMahon and Hulk Hogan didn't accomplish anything close to these facts. Guess that means I'm done here. Enjoy Wrestlemania and the future, maggles!

Are you so fucking dense that you forgot what your original point was? I'm not trying to downplay Hogan/Vince/Mania (holy shit I even acknowledge that Hulk Hogan was responsible for the success of PPV in the first place). You said that Hulkmania started wrestling as a worldwide phenomenon, that Vince made wrestling a worldwide success, that this thread wouldn't be here without him for fuck sake.

What I did was point out that wrestling was a worldwide success before Vince decided to throw every chip he had on the colossal tussle and Hulk Hogan and that in the alternate timeline where that fails, wrestling probably would still be around as an entertainment product and cultural curio on a global basis.

 

[Zach]

I guess I'll just have water since shanafan drank all the Kool-Aid.

 

[imBask]

Kevin Nash created the concept of stables

 

[Menome]

Hulk Hogan™

There. I own him and can tell him not to show up at Wrestlemania. Or ever again.

 

[jmdajr]

I don't know, but I think Mike Tyson did a lot to help PPVs too. Before him, were most fights on live television?

I know boxing and wrestling were the first TV sports because, you only needed 1 camera!

 

[Browny]

I don't know, but I think Mike Tyson did a lot to help PPVs too. Before him, were most fights on live television?

I know boxing and wrestling were the first TV sports because, you only needed 1 camera!

Absolutely. Tyson helped to get viewers for Michaels - Austin at WM, which was arguably the starting point for the Attitude Era (or at least Austins run).

Edit: completely misinterpreted your point re. Boxing. Tyson as a boxer did great numbers, but a lot of it was probably Don King promoting rather well.

 

[klonere]

I don't know, but I think Mike Tyson did a lot to help PPVs too. Before him, were most fights on live television?

I know boxing and wrestling were the first TV sports because, you only needed 1 camera!

Nah, Vince and Hogan were key to the success of PPV in its infancy, well before Tyson came along. That's how they got away with threatening to drop support for PPV if providers showed Starrcade 87 the afternoon before Survivor Series. Without Vince they'd all have been in big trouble.

 

[jmdajr]

Absolutely. Tyson helped to get viewers for Michaels - Austin at WM, which was arguably the starting point for the Attitude Era (or at least Austins run).

Edit: completely misinterpreted your point re. Boxing. Tyson as a boxer did great numbers, but a lot of it was probably Don King promoting rather well.

Did we have any big PPVs draws before Hogan and Tyson? The biggest draw I remember for the Mexican community was Julio César Chávez. It was always an event.

 

[Browny]

Did we have any big PPVs draws before Hogan and Tyson? I the biggest draw I remember for the Mexican community was Julio César Chávez. It was always an event.

Was Ali pre PPV? Interesting question...

Fake edit: Thrilla in Manilla was one of the first PPVs as per Wikipedia.

 

[jmdajr]

Was Ali pre PPV? Interesting question...

I don't know

 

[Aiii]

Kevin Nash created the concept of stables

 

[Bronx-Man]

I can't wait till the post-Mania Raw does a 3.8, 3.9, and I'll genuinely be able to say they can't even do 4.0s anymore on their most-watched show

"NXT gonna do 7 million viewers by 2020" - shanafan

I don't think any episode has hit 4.0 since Raw 1000.

 

[Hasney]

Was Ali pre PPV? Interesting question...

Fake edit: Thrilla in Manilla was one of the first PPVs as per Wikipedia.

Reading the Wiki article, it kinda fires home that the Wrestlemania with the best buy rate wouldn't be in the top 10 boxing events and would be 6th best if ranked against UFC events.

Also, Invasion being the best non-WM buy rate on wrestling PPV ever shows that if they hadn't fucked up that angle, it could have been amazing for them.

 

[Sweeney Tom]

Dave said live events promoter Rafael Morffi is back in TNA. Get ready for more funny empty arena pics, it looks like we're finally getting the return of TNA Live House Shows

 

[Heroman]

Neither did ric flair

 

[imBask]

why are all 4 wearing kneepads that don't protect their knees

 

[Hasney]

They're not currently wrestling so it's more comfortable for them to be pulled down.

Comfort is important. Get yourself a nice pillow.

 

[Recall]

Reading the Wiki article, it kinda fires home that the Wrestlemania with the best buy rate wouldn't be in the top 10 boxing events and would be 6th best if ranked against UFC events.

Also, Invasion being the best non-WM buy rate on wrestling PPV ever shows that if they hadn't fucked up that angle, it could have been amazing for them.

Kevin Dunn and Vince McMahon.

They had one chance to make more money than ever before but nope, ego got in the way.

Invasion storylines could have lasted until Summerslam 2002 easily. Especially with how the NWO appeared in no time and the promotion struggled something hard after Survivor Series 2001. They killed the invasion with no back up plan to make themselves the money instead.

 

[OldMan]

https://youtu.be/wOnBYWHpFpk

I watched that for the first time the other day.

 

[LoserMakesGood]

Didn't she get a record low score for this?

Edit: Every time I see a gif of ZSJ selling something he always just stares off into the distance.

ZSJ's selling bothers me to the point that I just can't enjoy him. During the CWC I finally figured out what his selling reminds me of.

 

[Bluekaveli]

Kevin fucking Dunn.

 

[Sweeney Tom]

Reading a retro Observer

Does anyone have an over/under on how long it'll take before the WWF current headliners that are afraid of being leap-frogged will start whispering about how Benoit doesn't know how to work "main event" style

dangit dave

 

[Sephzilla]

Buzz is that a Hasney/Mahonay dark match is being considered before the official start at GWF2. Local ads for the event are telling grapple fans to arrive early

:O

 

[klonere]

wait people really think that WWE won't just asset strip ROH and then close it down?

are these what they call "marks"?

 

[imBask]

wait people really think that WWE won't just asset strip ROH and then close it down?

are these what they call "marks"?

nah man Vince will give it a fair shot, like he did with ECW

 

[BewareTheBatsie]

We noted earlier this week how Summer Rae was apparently training for her return at the WWE Performance Center in Orlando. Summer has been out of action since last summer with a knee injury.

While Summer has not appeared on WWE TV since the Draft after being sent to the RAW roster, The Wrestling Observer Newsletter reports that there’s talk of bringing her back to the SmackDown roster with an appearance at WrestleMania 33 in the SmackDown Women’s Title match.

Regarding that match, graphics have confirmed that it will be Alexa Bliss defending against Becky Lynch, Mickie James, Carmella and Natalya but it’s possible we also see appearances by Naomi, Tamina Snuka, Eva Marie and Summer. There’s also been rumors of a stipulation being added to the match.

The Observer adds that it’s also possible we see former WWE Superstars return for the SmackDown Women’s Title match. We’ve noted how the company contacted several women from the past about appearing at WrestleMania 33 for an angle or match that has been kept secret. Kelly Kelly and Lisa Marie Varon (Victoria) were among those contacted about working for the company in Orlando that Sunday.

http://www.pwmania.com/possible-par...omens-title-match-summer-rae-switching-brands

 

[British Monsoon]

 

[ShadowSwordmaster]

:O

*gasp*

 

[Hasney]

:O

Grapple fans always come early.

...Wait

 

[Beefy]

wait people really think that WWE won't just asset strip ROH and then close it down?

are these what they call "marks"?

What assets does ROH have?

 

[Into the Light]

My WM would have looked like this:

Goldberg V Brock
Owens V Jericho
Nakamura V AJ Styles
American Alpha w/Kurt Angle in their corner V The Revival w/Jim Cornette in their corner

Bobby Roode V Tye Dillinger
Charlotte V Sasha Banks V Bailey V Becky in a Death Match

 

[Heroman]

This is wrestling

 

[Zach]

Grapple fans always come early.

...Wait

Menome, arrest this man!

 

[Heroman]

nah man Vince will give it a fair shot, like he did with ECW

Or WCW

 

[klonere]

What assets does ROH have?

I know ROH is a dumpster fan haha but

The partnership with NJPW. The broadcast and production equipment. It's behind the scenes staff. Training school.

But most importantly
The contracts of all its performers.
The tape library.

 

[Aiii]

Who in their right mind names their kid Birdie Joe? Are you birthing a Sesame Street character?

Also, I'm sure "BJ" Danielson is gonna have a tremendous time in high school.

 

[Menome]

Grapple fans always come early.

...Wait

Filth™

 

[BewareTheBatsie]

Who in their right mind names their kid Birdie Joe? Are you birthing a Sesame Street character?

The worst part is I'm not surprised in the slightest Bryan and Brie would name their kid something like that.

 

[Browny]

American Alpha w/Kurt Angle in their corner V The Revival w/Jim Cornette in their corner

I like this.

 

[Beefy]

I know ROH is a dumpster fan haha but

The partnership with NJPW. The broadcast and production equipment. It's behind the scenes staff. Training school.

But most importantly
The contracts of all its performers.
The tape library.

Has it got any good wrestlers now?

 

[imBask]

They gain one less competitor, one less option for wrestlers to sign to instead of WWE

that's the gain you marks

 

[Sephzilla]

What assets does ROH have?

It's a potential landing spot for professional wrestlers that is not WWE. That's honestly all WWE cares about.

 

[Kaladin]

Friends, I have two options for an event to go to early Saturday before Takeover

12 PM - Pro Wrestling Revolver at Wydham Orlando:

*Ricochet vs. Shane Strickland.
*Brian Cage & Sami Callihan vs. Rey Fenix & Pentagon OM.
*David Starr vs. Jeff Cobb.
*Dave & Jake Crist vs. Jack Evans & Angelico.
*Jake Manning vs. Su Yung.
*Michael Elgin vs. ACH vs. Dezmond Xavier vs. Palmer.
*AR Fox Open Invite Ladder Match: Lio Rush vs. Matt Cross vs. Trevor Lee vs. Serpentico vs. AR Fox vs. more TBA

or a non wrestling event.....

2 PM - Ringside with Jim Ross at Plaza North Live.

*JR Live on stage with special guests Tony Schivaone and Paul O'Brien. For details, visit www.JrsBarBQ.com.

Both should end well within enough time for me to get to Takeover.

The wrestling show has a lot of Lucha Underground stars I have never seen live and I've never seen JR or Tony Shivaone in person like that either..

Decisions decisions.

 

[klonere]

Has it git any good wrestlers now?

The Bucks
Adam Cole
Christopher Daniels (perfect age for an NXT run!)
Dalton Castle
Marty Scrull
Will Ospreay (although I think his main contract is with NJPW)
The Hardys
The Briscoes (they won't get WWE contracts though)

EDIT: imbask and seph also are 100% right. WWE want to make it the only possible option at any level to make a living from wrestling.