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Mario Kart 7 |OT| Rosalina is Fat, BBW Lovers Unite!

J

JasoNsider

Member
EatChildren said:
It's the Mario Kart curse. It manages to be both one of the most addictive and rage educing games ever made. Where you can be in first for 90% of a race, only to have it all come undone on the last stretch of the very last match by a random blue shell.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I just bought the game and can't play it until after work but...this right here is enough for me to seriously shake my head. The fact that there isn't a "no blue shell" mode is...sigh.

When I read reports that it's a return to competitive roots of sorts I admittedly might have raised my hopes too high. Nope, sounds like it's a return to the "you're in 1st for 95% of the race, get blasted by blue shell (requiring zero skill) at spitting distance from finish and come last" - yeah, that's absolute horse shit design. Love Nintendo and they are the developer who speaks to me more than almost any other group of creators on earth, but I will not understand their Mario Kart design fuck-ups like this.

The everyone-wins-an-award multiplayer game design paradigm is not good design. You're slapping down better players with god-machine blue shell horse shit and, in turn, creating confusion/disconnect between a person's perceived skillful improvement and their reward for it. Making people feel a sense of accomplishment does not come from a dice roll but a direct association between a skilled action and a reward. Start saying "you played well but...oh, blue shell lol, you're now last place" is the exact opposite of what is good competitive design.

Anywayyyy. Yeah, still going to love this game, but that kind of shit will always bother me. It's absolutely AWESOME for a party though, hence why Mario Kart Wii, MK64, etc. all had such a huge following.
 
S

Skilletor

Member
Nintendo really showing how awesome this little handheld is. The 3D effect is great, the framerate is silky, and the game is super fun.

Loving it. I'll have to check out online sometime this week.
 
M

MatthewB92

Member
For 50ppp people.


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Synless

Synless

Member
EatChildren said:
*shakes head*

So much bullshit.

Fuck you game. Fuck you.
Click to expand...

Mario Kart games can get incredibly brutal with power ups. I can remember more than several times being hit by lightning over a pit, falling, and being hit with a blue turtle shell shortly after costing me a race. It almost makes me not play the game anymore. Sometimes pure luck is more important than skill in this game.
 
Jinfash

Jinfash

needs 2 extra inches
DoctorWho said:
That's not a bad idea.
Click to expand...
Sharing a blue shell with others has always been very satisfying. Speaking of which, have they always flown this low, attacking whoever gets in the way of their travel?
it's a nice touch, especially when it screws over the 2nd place.
 
T

The_Darkest_Red

Member
Jinfash said:
Sharing a blue shell with others has always been very satisfying. Speaking of which, have they always flown this low, attacking whoever gets in the way of their travel?
it's a nice touch, especially when it screws over the 2nd place.
Click to expand...
There was at least one other version where they flew this low, maybe 64?

JasoNsider said:
Honestly, I just bought the game and can't play it until after work but...this right here is enough for me to seriously shake my head. The fact that there isn't a "no blue shell" mode is...sigh.

When I read reports that it's a return to competitive roots of sorts I admittedly might have raised my hopes too high. Nope, sounds like it's a return to the "you're in 1st for 95% of the race, get blasted by blue shell (requiring zero skill) at spitting distance from finish and come last" - yeah, that's absolute horse shit design. Love Nintendo and they are the developer who speaks to me more than almost any other group of creators on earth, but I will not understand their Mario Kart design fuck-ups like this.

The everyone-wins-an-award multiplayer game design paradigm is not good design. You're slapping down better players with god-machine blue shell horse shit and, in turn, creating confusion/disconnect between a person's perceived skillful improvement and their reward for it. Making people feel a sense of accomplishment does not come from a dice roll but a direct association between a skilled action and a reward. Start saying "you played well but...oh, blue shell lol, you're now last place" is the exact opposite of what is good competitive design.

Anywayyyy. Yeah, still going to love this game, but that kind of shit will always bother me. It's absolutely AWESOME for a party though, hence why Mario Kart Wii, MK64, etc. all had such a huge following.
Click to expand...
If you're looking for a racing game that is entirely skill-based you've come to the wrong series. There isn't a single Mario Kart that has ever been that way. This one is probably closer than most, though.

And I think there are options to create/join communities with certain items turned off, although I'm not sure about the details.
 
M

marc^o^

Nintendo's Pro Bono PR Firm
Blue shells don't always show up, they now hurt everyone on their way, you now have mushrooms while in 1st place so there's a chance to escape it, and there still is the tactic to slow down and have the 2nd being hurt as well. This is why good players still win most of the time.
 
B

Blizzard

Banned
Jinfash said:
Sharing a blue shell with others has always been very satisfying. Speaking of which, have they always flown this low, attacking whoever gets in the way of their travel?
it's a nice touch, especially when it screws over the 2nd place.
Click to expand...
I don't have the game, but once upon a time they used to do that (DS, or maybe N64?). It's obnoxious when they DON'T hit anyone before first place. If I recall correctly, Wii Mario Kart had flying blue shells that skipped everyone except for first place. And hilariously, of course you don't get a blue shell unless you're in what, 4th or 5th place max? So the chances of a blue shell helping you out and doing anything besides screwing over the first place person are slim.

Oh, I guess you could try to slow down and have the second place person caught in the explosion in the Wii version, true.
 
J

JasoNsider

Member
The_Darkest_Red said:
If you're looking for a racing game that is entirely skill-based you've come to the wrong series. There isn't a single Mario Kart that has ever been that way. This one is probably closer than most, though.
Click to expand...

I'm not asking for Fox only, Final Destination here. I'm asking for something closer to Super Mario Kart where even the red shells had to be fired with skill to hit their mark. Basically a closer correlation between skill and reward.

Chaotic gameplay is actually the opposite of what is fun after a while, since your actions are being disconnected from the reward-appropriate reactions. Even just a "no blue shell" mode gets rid of most of the problems I have with the latest games.

Still, I'm gonna love this game to death for sure. Bring it on.
 
G

gerudoman

Member
Blizzard said:
I don't have the game, but once upon a time they used to do that (DS, or maybe N64?).
Click to expand...
It was like that only on Super Circuit and MK64. I think it has been the best decision made in MK7, it makes blue shells a more valuable item for those who are at the tail of the race and don't care who is going to win the race and only care about winning positions.

For me the best strategy in close races is trying to reach the last or penultimate row of item boxes in a big group of racers, then brake a litlle bit to lose some positions and thus making sure that you get a good item. Being first in the last lap of a very close race means losing it 90% of the times.
 
T

The_Darkest_Red

Member
JasoNsider said:
I'm not asking for Fox only, Final Destination here. I'm asking for something closer to Super Mario Kart where even the red shells had to be fired with skill to hit their mark. Basically a closer correlation between skill and reward.

Chaotic gameplay is actually the opposite of what is fun after a while, since your actions are being disconnected from the reward-appropriate reactions. Even just a "no blue shell" mode gets rid of most of the problems I have with the latest games.

Still, I'm gonna love this game to death for sure. Bring it on.
Click to expand...
I gotcha. I actually agree with what you're saying but I feel like the chaos can also be part of the fun as long as it doesn't completely dominate the flow of a race. There is definitely a fine line though, and I'll have to spend some more time with this game before I can pass a final judgment regarding the balance.

There was one good point brought up earlier in the thread about blue shells. If there were no blue shells then races would almost always devolve into, "escape the initial chaos and build a lead while everyone behind you destroys each other with items." If racers were fairly close in skill level then 90% of races would be won by the guy who got out to a quick (or lucky) start.
 
E

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
For what its worth, Mario Kart 7 still manages to do a much better job at competitive play than the train wreck that was Mario Kart Wii. I thoroughly enjoyed MKWii, but that game was fundamentally broken and unbalanced in the most literal ways.

Though MK7 still has the junk, it's less tedious. Bullet bill has been toned down, blue shells can hurt everyone and don't just screw player one, and stuff like the return of coins put a bit more emphasis on actually being able to race and not just sit in last place spamming items to win.

But it still has it's moments where I'm this close to putting the system through the wall.
 
J

JasoNsider

Member
gerudoman said:
For me the best strategy in close races is trying to reach the last or penultimate row of item boxes in a big group of racers, then brake a litlle bit to lose some positions and thus making sure that you get a good item. Being first in the last lap of a very close race means losing it 90% of the times.
Click to expand...

If that shit is still in this game I'm going to shake my head. At no time should people be "racing for last" in a racing game. That's exactly how friends and I started playing modern outings of this game and it's really dumb. People slam the brakes just long enough to let others pass and get a better dice-roll. That is, on every single level, the opposite of what you want in a racing game.

I'm done ranting on this one for the morning. Haha :)

Eat: sounds good, man! The return of coins was the biggest single ray of hope when I heard about. Awesome!!
 
C

CrazedProfessional

Member
EatChildren said:
For what its worth, Mario Kart 7 still manages to do a much better job at competitive play than the train wreck that was Mario Kart Wii. I thoroughly enjoyed MKWii, but that game was fundamentally broken and unbalanced in the most literal ways.

Though MK7 still has the junk, it's less tedious. Bullet bill has been toned down, blue shells can hurt everyone and don't just screw player one, and stuff like the return of coins put a bit more emphasis on actually being able to race and not just sit in last place spamming items to win.

But it still has it's moments where I'm this close to putting the system through the wall.
Click to expand...

If they get 3 red shells and go into 1st with them and save them until the end of the race then you cannot win. This is why the Blue Shell exists. It's a counter bullshit to regular bullshit.
 
Jinfash

Jinfash

needs 2 extra inches
I skipped MKWii mostly because of its bad rep, even though I was sure it was a fun party game. But I have to admit that I was really concerned about MK7 carrying over MKWii's missteps. However this really feels like a direct sequel to MKDS, from physics, to mechanics (sans drifting), to finally balancing. And that's the highest praise I can give at this point. (Edit: No wait, also probably my favorite collection of new tracks and interpretations of classic ones)

So now that I've quelled my concerns about MK7, can someone remind me what specifically happened with MKWii that made it catch all this flack, and in what ways, if any, did it inspire 7?
 
J

jokkir

Member
What I find bullshit is how long it takes to accelerate after being hit by a blue shell. I lost so many times by getting hit by a blue shell during the last lap. Even with a huge lead :(
 
M

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Who's Chopper here?
Good job, I'm the Marco you just fought in the Community race.
Really, I failed hard in Bowser's Castle GBA :lol
 
C

Chopper

Member
Good race Marco. That's the first time a squid has been very nearly critical! Luckily those boost ramps helped me recover quickly.

Add my friend code: 3136 6553 7968

That goes for the rest of you too. I'd love to have a load of buddies I can jump online with, rather than just going through community menus.

Eit: Just managed to test this feature. Worked fantastically.
 
O

OMG Aero

Member
Jinfash said:
So now that I've quelled my concerns about MK7, can someone remind me what specifically happened with MKWii that made it catch all this flack, and in what ways, if any, did it inspire 7?
Click to expand...

I think the main thing with Mario Kart Wii is that it went overboard with ridiculous items. Take the Thundercloud as an example, when you grab that item you go faster for a short period of time but then the Thundercloud will cause you to spin out and shrink you. The idea is that you bump into someone else and that transfers the item to them so they shrink instead. Of course if no-one else is around (And you can get this item in first place so that can happen a lot) then this item is just a straight up penalty and there is nothing you can do about it.
 
JimboJones

JimboJones

Member
Having 12 people per race didn't help much in the Wii version either, just ment an extra 4 people in the back capable of getting mega powered weapons.
 
T

The_Darkest_Red

Member
I want to see someone perform a test to show how coins affect top speed.

Start with the same karts, characters, and customizations, with the only difference being number of coins, and take off side by side on a straightaway.

Whenever someone passes me without the assistance of a good drift or items I wonder what part of it is because of their setup/character choice and what part is the number of coins they have.
 
R

radioheadrule83

Banned
Jinfash said:
I skipped MKWii mostly because of its bad rep, even though I was sure it was a fun party game. But I have to admit that I was really concerned about MK7 carrying over MKWii's missteps. However this really feels like a direct sequel to MKDS, from physics, to mechanics (sans drifting), to finally balancing. And that's the highest praise I can give at this point. (Edit: No wait, also probably my favorite collection of new tracks and interpretations of classic ones)

So now that I've quelled my concerns about MK7, can someone remind me what specifically happened with MKWii that made it catch all this flak, and in what ways, if any, did it inspire 7?
Click to expand...

MK Wii's online attempted to fix what was a problem with MKDS - profligate use of 'snaking' - but it also added motorbikes and fast new characters, while attempting to incite people to use the wii wheel (not as easy as nunchuk or cc). The Mega Mushroom allowed you to crush people, bullet bills were more common, blue shells didn't take anyone out except the leading racer... and after homebrew, people started using custom Ocarina hacks allowing people to cheat etc. That last thing was the biggest thing to kill the game, same on DS really. People may want 3DS to be hacked to enable region-free, but this is the number one reason I hope it never is.

jokkir said:
What I find bullshit is how long it takes to accelerate after being hit by a blue shell. I lost so many times by getting hit by a blue shell during the last lap. Even with a huge lead :(
Click to expand...

I said this earlier in the thread... if I'm on a track like Rainbow Road, Alpine Pass, Bowsers Castle... any level with lava or drops, I drop off when I hear the siren is near, because Lakitu puts you down quicker than it takes you to recover and gain speed from a Blue Shell. As he puts you down, if you time it right you get the boost. Still not ideal though, and some drops are longer than others...
 
M

MatthewB92

Member
Can we not do random anymore? It doesn't seem random at all. Feel like every race DK jungle, Ice world, and Muku loop always show up.
 
R

radioheadrule83

Banned
OMG Aero said:
I think the main thing with Mario Kart Wii is that it went overboard with ridiculous items. Take the Thundercloud as an example, when you grab that item you go faster for a short period of time but then the Thundercloud will cause you to spin out and shrink you. The idea is that you bump into someone else and that transfers the item to them so they shrink instead. Of course if no-one else is around (And you can get this item in first place so that can happen a lot) then this item is just a straight up penalty and there is nothing you can do about it.
Click to expand...

I liked the Thundercloud, it turned into a game of tag. But put into the mix with everything else, it was just another thing to worry about... MK Wii could have done with some item customisation stuff too.

A lot of people hated the POW block too, but I didn't mind that, it was possible to escape the third 'quake' by doing a stunt/boost
 
A

Air Zombie Meat

Member
CrazedProfessional said:
Bikes were fine, you just had to pick a Kart with a good boost stat and get alot of reds, you'd usually outpace their wheelies. (wild wing, flame flyer)
Click to expand...

I see, I only played it online casually so the balance was never much of a concern for me. Just disliked the whole wheelie thing. Just seemed silly and a bit too much of a departure from the kart mechanics.
 
C

CrazedProfessional

Member
radioheadrule83 said:
I drop off when I hear the siren is near, because Lakitu puts you down quicker than it takes you to recover and gain speed from a Blue Shell. As he puts you down, if you time it right you get the boost. Still not ideal though, and some drops are longer than others...
Click to expand...

You gotta time that really well or else the blue shell will follow you backwards.
 
P

PK Gaming

Member
EatChildren said:
For what its worth, Mario Kart 7 still manages to do a much better job at competitive play than the train wreck that was Mario Kart Wii. I thoroughly enjoyed MKWii, but that game was fundamentally broken and unbalanced in the most literal ways.

Though MK7 still has the junk, it's less tedious. Bullet bill has been toned down, blue shells can hurt everyone and don't just screw player one, and stuff like the return of coins put a bit more emphasis on actually being able to race and not just sit in last place spamming items to win.

But it still has it's moments where I'm this close to putting the system through the wall.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

A few more things:
+Coin system is awesome. They noticeable increase your top speed when you collect 10, and they're pretty useful after getting hit.
-Still not a fan of the Lightning item block though, its still poorly implemented (they used the MK wii version instead of the more balanced N64 and DD version)
+Its a bit early, but it seems like the weight classes are balanced (not like in MK wii where the heavy weights were significantly better than just about everything else...)
+Tanooki leaf is an intelligent item that basically protects you from anything when used properly.
-Blue shells are still dumb. :(
 
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