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[Bragr]

TLDR: Games are more and more built before writers and directors even get to see the product. The human touch is lost, ideas and crafting unique player experiences mean less and less in the triple-A market as more games are designed after models about player attraction and franchise cultivation. This is nothing new of course, but it's starting to dominate the market to a larger extent.

Martin Scorsese created a lot of discussion by calling the Marvel movies theme parks, the idea that some movies are made from a perspective of finance rather than ideas, they are made to feed the franchise and sell merchandise. It's the Coca-Cola of movies, fun and thrilling but safe, forgettable, and expected. Human stories, meaning, reason, it has no bearing on the product, it's already planned out before the director even gets to work on it. Everything is made on a formula.

It's the same shit with some of the games from companies like EA, Activision, and Ubisoft (not all of course, but too many). Call of Duty, sports titles, free-to-play, Apex Legends, Fortnite, this new Ubisoft shooter, all of this stuff is designed after player attraction and trends, nobody drawing up these games is trying to say something meaningful, touching, powerful, or anything like that.

Just look at games like Anthem, Fallout 76, or the new Avengers games from Crystal Dynamics. What a hell are these games about? what are these games? what is the reason for these to get made other than cashing in? there is nothing human in these games at all, it's just drivel that they hope you waste time and money on.

 

[reksveks]

You can derive your own stories, experiences and meaning out of emergent gameplay that is equally valuable as a single player game.

 

[cireza]

This started during the PS360 era, nothing new. Don't buy uninspired AAA games, easy.

 

[Hendrick's]

100% agree. It’s why so many games have a paint by number feel to them. As an older gamer, it’s painfully noticeable.

Without AA and indies, I would have quit gaming last gen.

 

[existensmaximum]

Yup, this is true. I have nothing more to add. I never watch blockbuster movies anymore, they're all shit.

 

[.Pennywise]

Enjoy the other half

 

[Excess]

What a hell are these games about? what are these games? what is the reason for these to get made other than cashing in? there is nothing human in these games at all, it's just drivel that they hope you waste time and money on.

These sorts of games have been around forever.

 

[molasar]

Games should be about great gameplay first and foremost.

 

[Trogdor1123]

I'm totally ok with that, in fact I think it is a good thing. Games should be fun.

Some film folks are way too pretentious.

 

[Nico_D]

Nothing wrong with theme parks. You don't have to visit them either if you don't want to.

Other than that, I felt Scorsese was being elitistic saying that. I think everybody who is saying one art is objectively better than the other. What matters the most is people's enjoyment. If they get a kick out of something I consider shit, then great for them.

 

[Jeeves]

I agree, though I would add that a game does not even need to "say" anything to have heart to it. Even an entirely gameplay-focused game benefits from being crafted lovingly by people who have a vision, and you can tell the difference.

 

[lh032]

Since I played TLOU2, I have high expectations of hollywood movies now.

 

[Zannegan]

You can derive your own stories, experiences and meaning out of emergent gameplay that is equally valuable as a single player game.

Only in games that allow for emergent gameplay, which is rarer and rarer these days. Even something like Skyrim which prides itself on "go anywhere, do anything" now has very few systems that interact compared to its predecessors. There are still lots of things to do, and often a couple of ways to clear each objective, it's jist sad that there's so much less room to actually play around and figure things out.

For those few games that do let you create your own story, or even your own story moments, I agree, and not just in single player games either.

 

[Julius Ibidus]

he's right. and Taxi Driver is overrated.

 

[Corgi1985]

I miss star wars galaxies from 2003

 

[eyesabitdull]

Theme parks are fun.

Games are fun.

What?

If theme parks are fun, and in reality, theme park rides are subjective to taste and not every ride is meant for everyone - then games, cinematic or not, are then also subject to taste.

So why the hell do we keep trying to make it sound like theres only one way for us to look at games?

And why is it everytime someone makes a thread like this, it's sofa king obvious that their gaming taste is stuck on AAA games?

There are so many games that aren't AAA cinematic blockbuster, and in fact, dwarves AAA games as a whole, if you actually step out of your comfort zone.

Just because Marvel keeps pumping out MCU movies, then what, we ignore that some great movies exist in the meantime?

Did "Lighthouse" not come out? Was the sequel to "Bladerunner" a generic movie?

So why does it matter that games like Anthem exist as long as games like CK3, Psychonauts, Death Stranding, Hades, Stardew Valley and the likes also exist?

I hate this absolute mindset of "these games are bad, so gaming as a whole is shit" mentality.

 

[brian0057]

Since I played TLOU2, I have high expectations of hollywood movies now.

Tokusatsu has more narrative subtlety than TLOU2 so those standards must not be that high.

 

[Bragr]

Theme parks are fun.

Games are fun.

What?

If theme parks are fun, and in reality, theme park rides are subjective to taste and not every ride is meant for everyone - then games, cinematic or not, are then also subject to taste.

So why the hell do we keep trying to make it sound like theres only one way for us to look at games?

And why is it everytime someone makes a thread like this, it's sofa king obvious that their gaming taste is stuck on AAA games?

There are so many games that aren't AAA cinematic blockbuster, and in fact, dwarves AAA games as a whole, if you actually step out of your comfort zone.

Just because Marvel keeps pumping out MCU movies, then what, we ignore that some great movies exist in the meantime?

Did "Lighthouse" not come out? Was the sequel to "Bladerunner" a generic movie?

So why does it matter that games like Anthem exist as long as games like CK3, Psychonauts, Death Stranding, Hades, Stardew Valley and the likes also exist?

I hate this absolute mindset of "these games are bad, so gaming as a whole is shit" mentality.

You miss the point, no one is talking in absolutes here, the point is that franchises like Call of Duty, FIFA, Ubisoft's new approach, and etc.. should and could be more than they are, but are hurt by the approach of the producers.

 

[Bragr]

I agree, though I would add that a game does not even need to "say" anything to have heart to it. Even an entirely gameplay-focused game benefits from being crafted lovingly by people who have a vision, and you can tell the difference.

Sometimes, gameplay can say more than any story, that's one aspect of the art of games. It doesn't have to be a philosophical story, it can be whatever feeling the game produces.

 

[Drizzlehell]

Ehhh... I'm gonna say no. These are two completely different mediums that share certain characteristics but I really wish people would stop comparing the two as if they are one and the same or at least very similar. Books and movies also share common characteristics and yet people generally accept it in their minds that they are vastly different mediums that work differently when translated from pages to screen or vice versa. Accept already that it's a similar situation between movies and games.

 

[Bragr]

Ehhh... I'm gonna say no. These are two completely different mediums that share certain characteristics but I really wish people would stop comparing the two as if they are one and the same or at least very similar. Books and movies also share common characteristics and yet people generally accept it in their minds as separate mediums that feel vastly different when translated from pages to screen or vice versa.

You can compare them. It's just different mediums with the same end goal. It's the same as a burger vs a pizza, it's the end taste that matters, not how they look.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

My new favorite attack on f2p multiplayer is "They're just trying to make money".

Some of you AAA single player folks need to read this...

 

[Drizzlehell]

You can compare them. It's just different mediums with the same end goal. It's the same as a burger vs a pizza, it's the end taste that matters, not how they look.

I agree but the tone of your post seems to suggest that video games are somehow a lesser medium than movies by comparing them unfavorably to theme parks (that's just my impression though). Plus I don't think it's quite as accurate because in a theme park you're usually stuck in a cart or just watching a stunt show while videogames excel at emergent gameplay or non-linear storytelling.

The Scorsese quote about MCU I think mostly comes from the reality that these movies are often made around their setpieces and special effects rather than story. The only video game I can think of that would fit this bill was the original Uncharted trilogy, where even the developers admitted that they come up with a cool set piece first and only then think of a way on how to write the story around it. But the easy explanation here is that 1) Uncharted games focus on linear storytelling (just like movies), and 2) many works of fiction are born out of a concept that ends up having little to do with the story writing process. Ain't nothing wrong with that as long as you end up with an engaging end product.

 

[Xenon]

Just look at games like Anthem, Fallout 76, or the new Avengers games from Crystal Dynamics. What a hell are these games about?

Developers with no MMO experience trying to cash in on games as a service.
Thankfully most of these games got the success they deserve. Bethesda was the only one to recover from complete failure..

Games are not movies, they mimic them at the cost of their interactive nature. There is room at both sides of the spectrum and everything in between cinematic to puzzegames.

 

[eyesabitdull]

You miss the point, no one is talking in absolutes here, the point is that franchises like Call of Duty, FIFA, Ubisoft's new approach, and etc.. should and could be more than they are, but are hurt by the approach of the producers.

So?

Good. Fuck those games then.

Let em flop and hopefully someone will pull the plug and end it.

Dont like Fifa? Get PES.

Dont like COD? Go get Insurgence.

Dont like Ubi games? Go literally to any other publisher.

Are we a communist/socialist industry, or are we not in a capitalist market?

Why do must force ourselves to pretend corporations are our friends and expect them to do better for us.

I'm in agreement that we can do more with our established favourite IP's, but when they aren't and subject to greed, whatever then. Let them rot until they change their minds.

You want better games, support the smaller games trying to improve the genre just with a lot less money (much like how established franchises started off as)

 

[zaanan]

TLDR: Games are more and more built before writers and directors even get to see the product. The human touch is lost, ideas and crafting unique player experiences mean less and less in the triple-A market as more games are designed after models about player attraction and franchise cultivation. This is nothing new of course, but it's starting to dominate the market to a larger extent.

Martin Scorsese created a lot of discussion by calling the Marvel movies theme parks, the idea that some movies are made from a perspective of finance rather than ideas, they are made to feed the franchise and sell merchandise. It's the Coca-Cola of movies, fun and thrilling but safe, forgettable, and expected. Human stories, meaning, reason, it has no bearing on the product, it's already planned out before the director even gets to work on it. Everything is made on a formula.

It's the same shit with some of the games from companies like EA, Activision, and Ubisoft (not all of course, but too many). Call of Duty, sports titles, free-to-play, Apex Legends, Fortnite, this new Ubisoft shooter, all of this stuff is designed after player attraction and trends, nobody drawing up these games is trying to say something meaningful, touching, powerful, or anything like that.

Just look at games like Anthem, Fallout 76, or the new Avengers games from Crystal Dynamics. What a hell are these games about? what are these games? what is the reason for these to get made other than cashing in? there is nothing human in these games at all, it's just drivel that they hope you waste time and money on.

 

[IntentionalPun]

It's the same shit with some of the games from companies like EA, Activision, and Ubisoft (not all of course, but too many). Call of Duty, sports titles, free-to-play, Apex Legends, Fortnite, this new Ubisoft shooter, all of this stuff is designed after player attraction and trends, nobody drawing up these games is trying to say something meaningful, touching, powerful, or anything like that.

Just look at games like Anthem, Fallout 76, or the new Avengers games from Crystal Dynamics. What a hell are these games about? what are these games? what is the reason for these to get made other than cashing in? there is nothing human in these games at all, it's just drivel that they hope you waste time and money on.

These games are about playing them and having fun.. much like.. soccer.. or.. chess..

Not every game needs to be dripping with cutscenes or be heavily story driven.

This is a bizarre thread because TBH games used to be even less story driven.. having a story was not the norm at all. You have characters, a bit of a world to build, colorful levels.. but story? That's not something most games had.

But Fallout 76 has awesome world building.. lots of cool things to find, explore, read/hear/etc. There are also storylines as well BTW.

 

[Hellmaker]

You can derive your own stories, experiences and meaning out of emergent gameplay that is equally valuable as a single player game.

Maybe when you are 12...

 

[dave_d]

Director. The only thing I've seen by him was "Hugo Sucks!" which was little more than an attempt to pander to the academy to ask them to please give him some more Oscars. (God how I hate that movie.)

 

[bob_mugabe]

Director. The only thing I've seen by him was "Hugo Sucks!" which was little more than an attempt to pander to the academy to ask them to please give him some more Oscars. (God how I hate that movie.)

Well, looks like you're a cinema expert.

 

[junguler]

i don't care if a game or any form of art is made by committee or a visionary, if it's fun? it's fun. scorsese has made shit movies and marvel made great ones and vice versa.

 

[CartoonsNCereal]

This started during the PS360 era, nothing new. Don't buy uninspired AAA games, easy.

Well the point is, the inspired games are coming out less and less...

One of the reasons why destroying cdpr the way gamers did, to the poibt where it was unfair, was a stupid move...ubisoft, bethesda etc shouldve been getting that. Now even less risks will be taken

 

[CartoonsNCereal]

These games are about playing them and having fun.. much like.. soccer.. or.. chess..

Not every game needs to be dripping with cutscenes or be heavily story driven.

This is a bizarre thread because TBH games used to be even less story driven.. having a story was not the norm at all. You have characters, a bit of a world to build, colorful levels.. but story? That's not something most games had.

But Fallout 76 has awesome world building.. lots of cool things to find, explore, read/hear/etc. There are also storylines as well BTW.

Eh...wow you're really the kind of kid that'll fuck everything up for all of us lol

 

[Bragr]

You never heard of Scorsese? huh?

 

[MrS]

Scorsese is a daft old cunt who hasn't made a great film in 15 years. Gaming is for the youth.

 

[GeorgioCostanzaX]

Scorsese is a daft old cunt who hasn't made a great film in 15 years. Gaming is for the youth.

He’s a great director with cunty ideas now. He clearly missed out on horrifishitty super hero films made in the 90’s like these “gems.” which truly were cash ins with zero respect for the source material. He probably grew up on the equally shitty comics code Superman and Batman crap circa late 40s through the late 60s (marvel excluded) and thinks that’s what super hero’s are.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Eh...wow you're really the kind of kid that'll fuck everything up for all of us lol

I’m 43 chucklefuck.

 

[bob_mugabe]

He’s a great director with cunty ideas now. He clearly missed out on horrifishitty super hero films made in the 90’s like these “gems.” which truly were cash ins with zero respect for the source material. He probably grew up on the equally shitty comics code Superman and Batman crap circa late 40s through the late 60s (marvel excluded) and thinks that’s what super hero’s are.

(Some) super hero comic movies being shit don't make current super hero movies good.

 

[GeorgioCostanzaX]

(Some) super hero comic movies being shit don't make current super hero movies good.

MCU is great I can’t think of a single objectively bad film in the entire series and certainly not one as shitty as the ones I cited. WB is hit or miss but there are cases like BvS, Suicide Squad and JL that were edited by the studio into not being good. I’ll admit most X-men films made since Logan and Days of Future Past are horseshit.

 

[daywarf]

Before I had a girlfriend, there were no more than three games that made me want to go out to a theme park.I think if I was a person who liked to go to theme parks, maybe I wouldn't like to play games so much

 

[Chiggs]

Games aren’t art; they’re games, no matter how many shitty cutscenes you jam into them. Gameplay is what matters.

And games are more like theme parks and rides than they are movies, books, etc.

 

[Bonfires Down]

Worst thread I've seen in a while.

 

[Skelterz]

Nothing wrong with theme parks. You don't have to visit them either if you don't want to.

Other than that, I felt Scorsese was being elitistic saying that. I think everybody who is saying one art is objectively better than the other. What matters the most is people's enjoyment. If they get a kick out of something I consider shit, then great for them.

You have a point but when one form of Art starts to become more prominent than the other due to it being a more financially gainful project you lose the beauty of art itself, The idea isn’t elite it’s a man passionate about a craft that’s being monetised marvel films for better or worse are essentially call of duty you don’t have to play but guess what Activision sure ain’t developing Spyro.

 

[WitchHunter]

Games aren’t art; they’re games, no matter how many shitty cutscenes you jam into them. Gameplay is what matters.

And games are more like theme parks and rides than they are movies, books, etc.

Games used to have great cutscenes that supported and elevated the gameplay experience to another level. Nowadays ingame cinematics exist, but do not expect anything that will raise your blood pressure. Because wtf knows why.

 

[bender]

Maybe when you are 12...

Did you ejaculate your imagination on your first wank?

 

[Skelterz]

Games aren’t art; they’re games, no matter how many shitty cutscenes you jam into them. Gameplay is what matters.

And games are more like theme parks and rides than they are movies, books, etc.

You have an extremely warped view of what constitutes for art..Anything that takes a high level of proficiency to achieve along with a level of patience and passion typically above the norm can be considered art in my opinion.

A trip to YouTube should be enough of a slap around the skull to prove that fact there are millions upon millions of people watching, carpentry soldering, mechanics, engineering, Traditional painting and make up applying, Any one of these things done with a high level of skill or with a unique niche can be considered Art in its own right and game development falls into that same bracket.

 

[Chiggs]

You have an extremely warped view of what constitutes for art..Anything that takes a high level of proficiency to achieve along with a level of patience and passion typically above the norm can be considered art in my opinion.

A trip to YouTube should be enough of a slap around the skull to prove that fact there are millions upon millions of people watching, carpentry soldering, mechanics, engineering, Traditional painting and make up applying, Any one of these things done with a high level of skill or with a unique niche can be considered Art in its own right and game development falls into that same bracket.

So my opinion is warped because it doesn’t align with yours?

Helluva post there, bud.

 

[NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt]

Nothing wrong with theme parks. You don't have to visit them either if you don't want to.

Other than that, I felt Scorsese was being elitistic saying that. I think everybody who is saying one art is objectively better than the other. What matters the most is people's enjoyment. If they get a kick out of something I consider shit, then great for them.

Agreed, not only that he was talking about all superhero movies, not only MCU films.

 

[killatopak]

Who cares. What matters is how people enjoy the film

You have elitist journalists have a film rotten tomato scores at 30% while the audience scores are at 90% and vice versa.

That’s what makes both film and game industry amazing. They can satisfy both cravings if you know where to look for them.

Pretty selfish if you only think about yourself.

 

[Hellmaker]

Did you ejaculate your imagination on your first wank?

Uh no no it took many many wank...