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Marvel Cinematic Universe |OT2| Discussion on released and future projects (spoilers)
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Pai Pai Master
Banned
IM2's biggest weaknesses were the palladium poisoning subplot and Whiplash's character. People blame the SHIELD stuff but that's actually the most enjoyable part of the movie along with a couple of action scenes.
I think a better-made film would have kept all that SHIELD world building intact, but also be able to balance the other subplots. It had three highlight action scenes in the raceway fight, the drunken brawl in Tony's house, and the drone fight at the end. If Whiplash had been a better character and his actual fight scene at the end actually been decent I probably would have enjoyed the movie a lot more.
It did become a lot more enjoyable once Avengers was out and that world-building had a payoff, but as a standalone film I can't enjoy it as much as Iron Man 3. I kinda see IM1 and 2 as two parts of a whole and don't really enjoy them without the context of the other Marvel movies.
I think a better-made film would have kept all that SHIELD world building intact, but also be able to balance the other subplots. It had three highlight action scenes in the raceway fight, the drunken brawl in Tony's house, and the drone fight at the end. If Whiplash had been a better character and his actual fight scene at the end actually been decent I probably would have enjoyed the movie a lot more.
It did become a lot more enjoyable once Avengers was out and that world-building had a payoff, but as a standalone film I can't enjoy it as much as Iron Man 3. I kinda see IM1 and 2 as two parts of a whole and don't really enjoy them without the context of the other Marvel movies.
I think IM2 would have been a stronger movie without Justin Hammer. Rockwell played the heck out of the role, and he was a ton of fun, but narratively it just really bogged the pacing down, ruined Whiplash's character, gave everything less space to breath, and took over the climax in a totally unsatisfactory manner. It should have been a more personal conflict between Whiplash and Tony Stark, and his SHIELD subplot would have resonated better if there was more focus on what Whiplash was making him reconsider about himself and Stark Industries.
Yeah I actually think this might have been the problem.
I loved the SHIELD stuff and shouted out loud when I saw Black Widow and Nick Fury. I didn't know they were in the movie and I saw it for the first time last year I think it was.
They could have done without the poison arc reactor stuff too.
I think I'm with you on that. Despite whatever that films faults are, it's always worth it for me to get to those 60 some seconds circling around Iron Man and War Machine vs the Hammeroids.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
If that particular scene kept going on for a few minutes more at that quality, it'd easily be one of my favourite MCU movies haha. It's the first scene in the franchise that I think nails the characters in action.
BobTheFork
Member
I loved IM2. No real problem with Whiplash, great end fights and action, Sam FUCKING Rockwell. It's good.
badcrumble
Member
A lot of IM2's stuff was supposed to feed into one of the earlier versions of the Avengers screenplay that had a *lot* more to do with Steve Rogers and Tony Stark having very different relationships to Howard Stark, IIRC.
Edit: Nevermind
Father_Brain
Banned
Wouldn't surprise me. Marvel probably has them sealed up too tightly to ever leak, but I would love to read some of the Zak Penn (and earlier Whedon) drafts of Avengers; they'd explain a lot of the development of the MCU.
badcrumble
Member
From everything I've read (starting with leaks and stuff well before Avengers actually came out) it sounds like earlier drafts of Avengers did a much better job of tying into nearly everything from the Phase 1 films and a much worse job of teeing up Phase 2 stuff.
The thing that stood out the most when watching all three of them back-to-back is that while Iron Man 3 is the more consistent film, between 2 and 3, it never gets to the highs of IM2, though it does not go to the lows of that film either. There are just so many great scenes in IM2
Edit:
Just posting the War Machine/Iron Man fight for reference because it's so awesome .
Everything about it from the dialogue leading up to the fight to them interacting with each other during the fight and the finish is just right. I really hope we get some Rhodey/Stark action in AoU.
- Senate Hearing
- Monaco fight/Mark V
- The ex-wife
- Iron Man/War Machine tag team
- Black Widow/Happy Fight (which is still the most capable BW has looked in any of the MCU films imo)
- Howard stark tape
- Fury/Stark/Widow reveal in the donut shop
Edit:
Just posting the War Machine/Iron Man fight for reference because it's so awesome .
Everything about it from the dialogue leading up to the fight to them interacting with each other during the fight and the finish is just right. I really hope we get some Rhodey/Stark action in AoU.
Just what I needed to start my day.
eastx
Member
But she wasn't a real character yet so it was difficult to care. It was just a stunt person for an anorexic lady in black doing crazy moves, but if we don't care about Black Widow, many of us don't care about the improbable wrestling moves she pulls off against people who look like more capable fighters. She was essentially the equivalent of a non-starring mutant from the X-men films. No character development, but a cool action scene.
badcrumble
Member
Between the Hammer drones, IM3's House Party protocol, Zola and his evil algorithm in Cap 2, and the upcoming Ultron/Vision, it's pretty interesting to see a general continuing arc in the Marvel universe that's all about the development of artificial intelligence within the MCU. I don't expect that to end with Avengers 2.
I hope the brothers in AoS are LMDs
They have to be, right? There have been a number of them mentioned already and what, they all just happened to decide to be Shield agents?
Are anyone else not that entertained by Agent Carter? It haven't grabbed me much at this point, but of course there's those tidbits that makes me curious, like the Leviathon, Natascha's connection, Howard Stark and what will happen to Peggy, while Jarvis is the highlight character.
But I find myself bored a lot of times. I had 10 good minutes in Episode 4 I noticed. I'm not forcing myself, as I'm very interested in the show's role in the whole of MCU but I don't rate it as high as Agents of Shield.
My hype for Daredevil is sky high though.
But I find myself bored a lot of times. I had 10 good minutes in Episode 4 I noticed. I'm not forcing myself, as I'm very interested in the show's role in the whole of MCU but I don't rate it as high as Agents of Shield.
My hype for Daredevil is sky high though.
Mighty Chin
Banned
In the Comics has there ever been a Zola / Ultron Team Up.
I love both Iron Man 2 and 3, with 3 being my favorite MCU movie so far. It is always good to see others give Iron Man 2 credit where credit is due. For all the flaws the film has, the highs more than make up for it. Fun fact, the Samurai Jack dude is responsible for that War Machine/Iron Man team-up scene.
What exactly did you hate about what was done with Rhodey in 3?
Jon Favreau said:
What exactly did you hate about what was done with Rhodey in 3?
Ava DuVernay (director of Selma) now has a plan for when Marvel calls.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgeYujXAi3U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgeYujXAi3U
It most likely did by now, but we won't hear the results for a while unless something leaks. If the Marvel-Sony Spidey deal went through, we'll probably hear about it at SDCC.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
So SDCC is like July right? So nearly 5 months so it shouldn't be bad tho.
I'm down
Yeah, & announcing MCU Spidey at SDCC would take away any sort of thunder DC may gain (since we both know the BvS footage will be talked about a lot).
With plans on rebooting it every 5 years.
Chris Pratt honors his Super Bowl bet, visits children's hospital as Star-Lord with Chris Evans.
Could this 2 guys be more likeable?
I hate this, I am noe at the point, that I always go full excited when in this thread something about Spidey is posted
Jest Chillin
Member
I mean, Spidey going to MCU is by no means a guarantee but it's performance for Sony has definitely dipped significantly. They'd have to have one hell of writer/director combo to justify continuing dumping money into it.
These two are class-acts. Though I'm a bit sad that Chris Evans didn't go in costume, unless that was a technicality for the bet.
Chris Pratt honors his Super Bowl bet, visits children's hospital as Star-Lord with Chris Evans.
Sony's treading on some mighty thin ice here. If they announce that either...
1. They're moving forward with the Amazing Spider-Man series, or...
2. They're rebooting Spider-Man without Marvel
The backlash would be huge. I'm not sure Sony has much of a choice here without effectively building their own coffin.
They aren't going to hand over the rights to Marvel & a shared Sony/MCU universe would be awful for viewers.
People need to let it go, like we all did with X-Men.
What's your reasoning behind this statement? I'm not asking that in a hostile manner, I just want to know what your thinking is behind it because everyone seems to assume it will be all positive.
It comes from my experience with comic books - when a writer or team of writers begins a large scale plan and manages to execute on it, it can turn out well.
Unexpected cross overs between teams mid-story is a much harder thing to pull off, and can introduce real inconsistencies within the larger universe. I just have seen a lot of good stories railroaded and ruined by this sort of thing, and I would hate for that to happen to the MCU.
Even if Sony is willing to give MCU complete creative control for a MCU-exusive Spidey reboot (where Sony gets merch money and a back end on tickets to compensate) I still see issues. Fiege doesn't want to do another origin movie, so I'm not sure how to gracefully introduce this giant character into the MCU.
Lastly, I would hate for Spidey to become the Wolverine of the Avengers, but I honestly don't see that problem coming to fruition.
Chris Pratt honors his Super Bowl bet, visits children's hospital as Star-Lord with Chris Evans.
This is awesome lol
Also, it looks like I'll be going back to Hall H this year. If Star Wars is also at Hall H on Saturday, along with DC and MCU blow outs, I'd probably have to start lining up Thursday night if I want any chance of getting in. Last year I started lining up at 7PM on Friday night (Hall H started Saturday at 10AM) and ended up towards the back of the hall.
I don't think anyone would be able to top a Spidey in MCU announcement.
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