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[Rhaknar]

Ive said many times I only, or mainly play it for the Marvel-ness. I wouldnt put over a thousand hours on it otherwise (just like I didnt on any other diablo-style game including diablo, or path of exile, or the torchlights, etc) Pretty much how im playing HotS for the "blizzardness" even tho I never touched a moba before.

and lol at people defending this costume horseshit. dont get me wrong, this isnt a "IMA DROPPING THIS GAME GAZ" or even "I regret buying the advance packs now" thing, I still want mah iceman and shulkie and whatnot, but shit like this just reinforces the status of the game, for me, as "yup ill play it for a week or 2 when new heroes come out depending on how much I like them and then stop again until the next hero". Charging 1450g or whatever it was for Maskless Buckie is fucking hilarious

 

[Drayco21]

I was thinking like that, but I guess Gaz pushed the wrong buttons on exactly the people they were aiming: those who really like the cosmetic items and that are willing to spend (and have spent) more than their fair share of Gs on them.

It won't change my life in this game, but then again, I'm usually a fan of default and/or classic costumes since I usually favor Kirby designs anyway (I almost feel like prestiging captain america again just so I can go back to the default costume), but for someone who is a huge fan of, say, the recent Hawkeye Fraction/Aja run and have already the Kate Bishop and the Hawkguy costumes; now Gaz creates this anxiety out of nowhere that there was this another variant that is just slightly different than the costume he already has, but it is expensive as fuck and comes with the chance of "running out" and him never being able to get it again.

I guess if costumes were important to me, I would be raging, too.

Edit: It just occurred to me this is part of a great plan.

1- Announce costumes that are almost identical to the ones already in the store (and so it wasted almost no resources to get done) as limited edition and wait for the backlash

2- Retract and go "we listened to your feedback! Those costumes will now be available at the store and it will only be more expensive, but not limited"

3 - People rejoice! "Gaz listens to us!" they say. "Best. Devs. Ever" they go. And so they end up buying the-costume-they-already-have-but-slightly-different for a higher price and newfound love of the devs who listen to their pleas.

Ugh, I can just see this happening. The prices on these costumes that take minimal work is just as ridiculous as the artificial scarcity of making them limited.

 

[Noray]

Path of the Exile nominally only has a handful of "classes", but the way that game's skills work means there are really like infinity classes.

And not to take anything away from Gaz, but for the most part every hero pretty much pulls from the same pool of essential mechanics. They are just arranged and flavored in different ways. Ground AoE Dot layers, offensive/defensive passives, high damage boss beater ability, etc.

Yeah, but how many viable builds does PoE have? And while it's true that you could break down a lot of abilities into relatively few categories in MH, that kind of formalist thinking is too reductive imo... theming, aesthetics, animation etc all have a massive impact on the appeal of a character to the player. I could theoretically take Rogue, build her exactly the same as some other hero, and still have a different experience. I'm not saying you're wrong, from a design point of view there are only so many abilities, but it's kind of inevitable in this genre, with so many characters with similar powers (beat stuff up real good etc)

 

[inky]

Yeah, but how many viable builds does PoE have?

Plenty. A few hundred at least.

 

[xrayregime]

The most important thing I've learned from all of this is that the official forums apparently adopted the word "tinsel" as a filter replacement for profanities.

It's really like Disney World over there.


RYOLNIR:

Hey all, I'm typing up a new thread with a total revamp of the concept (well, it's a new concept altogether). You'll now learn that this was just a big plan to see how many disagrees I could get in one post.

True story: I read every single post.

 

[ThirtyFour]

Everything Sblargh said is coming true!

That backdown was expected.

Wonder what it will end up like though. I've got to think they'll still try to come out of this with money in mind.

 

[Anoregon]

RYOLNIR:

I imagine this was him shortly after the post went up last night:

 

[Frostinferno]

Goodness O_O

 

[LuuKyK]

This backlash. Hilarious.

 

[Anoregon]

He should gift the 1000th disagree a free LE costume.

 

[Sblargh]

Everything Sblargh said is coming true!

That backdown was expected.

Wonder what it will end up like though. I've got to think they'll still try to come out of this with money in mind.

The problem never is doing stuff with money in mind, "they are a busisness after all" (phrase said to magically justify people being assholes); but c'mon, they have plenty of ways to making money without creating this kind of grief.

One of the reasons their busisness model is so good is how they make you feel you want to give them money. Even when buying costumes for heroes I don't play a lot, I never felt like they screwed me over, even when buying bullshit cosmic boxes, fortunes cards and such, at least you're getting a bunch of boosts out of this.

This idea was just... "here's your once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to pay us a lot of money for barely nothing and a certificate above your name that you are the kind of person that gives a lot of money for barely nothing"

 

[inky]

Everything Sblargh said is coming true!

That backdown was expected.

I know Sblargh was mostly joking, but if they did it like that -knowingly- that's almost worse in my mind.

 

[ThirtyFour]

The problem never is doing stuff with money in mind, "they are a busisness after all" (phrase said to magically justify people being assholes); but c'mon, they have plenty of ways to making money without creating this kind of grief.

One of the reasons their busisness model is so good is how they make you feel you want to give them money. Even when buying costumes for heroes I don't play a lot, I never felt like they screwed me over, even when buying bullshit cosmic boxes, fortunes cards and such, at least you're getting a bunch of boosts out of this.

This idea was just... "here's your once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to pay us a lot of money for barely nothing and a certificate above your name that you are the kind of person that gives a lot of money for barely nothing"

I honestly can't tell if you're against them trying this or for it from this post.

Anyway I understand that they've got to make money and my opinion on the LEs doesn't really matter to that.

I was just trying to say that even if they're changing the way LE's are set up the new path will still be designed with money making in mind.

From some posts in the main forums it sounds like people over there are expecting a complete 180 from Gaz on this and I don't believe that will happen (only a slight turn).

 

[Sblargh]

I went from "this is silly, but harmless" to "wow, this is horrible for people whose tastes are not mine, but whom I can relate because we're all brothers and sisters and why can't we be friends"

I felt genuinely bad for some people on the forums who are actually invested on the costume collection aspect of the game.

As for where they go from here, wait and see I guess; Ryolnir did say they have an entirely new concept instead of a revamp, so I'm guessing the whole thing is scrapped.

Here is my amazing suggestion: make these variants achievement rewards that only actually are unlocked if you have the original costume.

Like, you do something with Hawkeye and unlock the "hawkguy variant" achievement; but this is not the actual costume you're unlocking; you still need to have the regular hawkguy costume in order to upgrade it with the achievement. Now everyone who gets the achievement will want to buy the damn thing, so it still have that kind of evil behind it that makes capitalism work in an universe where evil is the neutral state of existence, but it doesn't disrupt how you normally approach costume collecting.

 

[xrayregime]

Well if they want to sell those costumes for the same ridiculous amount, that's fine. I think most people have a problem with artificially limiting the number of digital items available to purchase. I guess down the line they might have released a limited edition costume I really want, and maybe I wouldn't be able to get it before it ran out.

That would kind of bum me out. So hopefully they're just removing the limited aspect of the costumes. Keep your ridiculous prices, Gaz, that's not my issue.

Like, you do something with Hawkeye and unlock the "hawkguy variant" achievement; but this is not the actual costume you're unlocking; you still need to have the regular hawkguy costume in order to upgrade it with the achievement. Now everyone who gets the achievement will want to buy the damn thing, so it still have that kind of evil behind it that makes capitalism work in an universe where evil is the neutral state of existence, but it doesn't disrupt how you normally approach costume collecting.

They should hire you, Sblargh.

 

[Anoregon]

From some posts in the main forums it sounds like people over there are expecting a complete 180 from Gaz on this and I don't believe that will happen (only a slight turn).

Right. Limited or not, they are still going to sell these barely different costumes at enhanced costume prices.

 

[Sblargh]

If I had a job for every time people told me that, I would have a job and ewww, no thanks.

 

[Queen of Hunting]

I think they expected a backlash just not so big. Like even ryolnir knows thats n insane amount of disagrees just from active members in the last day

 

[ThirtyFour]

I know Sblargh was mostly joking, but if they did it like that -knowingly- that's almost worse in my mind.

True, although I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they were at least partially ready with a hell turn. They intended to go forward with LE's as first described but they had to know it wouldn't go down well so they had an idea about where to go if it got too hot for them.

That may just be me not having any trust for them though.

Like, you do something with Hawkeye and unlock the "hawkguy variant" achievement; but this is not the actual costume you're unlocking; you still need to have the regular hawkguy costume in order to upgrade it with the achievement. Now everyone who gets the achievement will want to buy the damn thing, so it still have that kind of evil behind it that makes capitalism work in an universe where evil is the neutral state of existence, but it doesn't disrupt how you normally approach costume collecting.

This is probably better than the first iteration but if it did happen then you could argue that you're not actually getting a reward for that achievement. Now whether expecting a full costume just for a random in-game achievement maybe expecting too much but you know there will be people complaining about having to buy another costume to get access to the LE.

 

[Moondrop]

I hope Gaz doubles down on Limited Editions and I plan to buy the LE Kitty Pryde to support this initiative.

People won't pay merely for a stupid achievement or a slightly different costume everyone has. But a slightly different costume others can't attain- that has value.

So why is everyone crying over this? What's so bad about others having cosmetic items you don't?

 

[LuuKyK]

I hope Gaz doubles down on Limited Editions and I plan to buy the LE Kitty Pryde to support this initiative.

Joke post?

 

[Moondrop]

Joke post?

Hell no. I'd rather buy a pretty pretty princess costume outright than gamble for it. And I'm coming to despise the envious, anti-capitalistic, socialist utopia overtones I'm seeing surrounding this "debacle."

 

[LuuKyK]

Hell no. I'd rather buy a pretty pretty princess costume outright than gamble for it. And I'm coming to despise the envious, anti-capitalistic, socialist utopia overtones I'm seeing surrounding this "debacle."

To be honest saying it is better than the idiotic idea of having costumes behind random drops of cards is not really helping your point. Its just a case of "lesser of two evils".

Personally I think supporting explicit money-grab decision like this whole LE thing is just going to take the game we like in a very questionable direction. If you feel comfortable supporting it there is nothing anyone can do though, so go for it. /shrug

 

[Anoregon]

yeah man those filthy liberals ruining marvel heroes

what the fuck

 

[KePoW]

I hope Gaz doubles down on Limited Editions and I plan to buy the LE Kitty Pryde to support this initiative

hahahha depends which Kitty Pryde costume it is

I love Kitty

 

[Nokagi]

Hell no. I'd rather buy a pretty pretty princess costume outright than gamble for it. And I'm coming to despise the envious, anti-capitalistic, socialist utopia overtones I'm seeing surrounding this "debacle."

Good one. I laughed.( At you but still)

 

[Moondrop]

To be honest saying it is better than the idiotic idea of having costumes behind random drops of cards is not really helping your case. Its just a case of "lesser of two evils".

Personally I think supporting explicit money-grab decision like this whole LE thing is just going to take the game we like in a very questionable direction. If you feel comfortable supporting it there is nothing anyone can do though, so go for it. /shrug

I don't understand how limited edition cosmetic items are a different direction; it appears to me to be the same direction the game has had since release.

yeah man those filthy liberals ruining marvel heroes

what the fuck

You can claim I'm the one who took it there but perhaps take a closer look at this thread. I still haven't seen a coherent argument why limited editions are inherently wrong other than "everyone can't have one... and that's wrong."

 

[c0Zm1c]

The most important thing I've learned from all of this is that the official forums apparently adopted the word "tinsel" as a filter replacement for profanities.

Ooooooh, that's what that is.

 

[LuuKyK]

I don't understand how limited edition cosmetic items are a different direction; it appears to me to be the same direction the game has had since release.


You can claim I'm the one who took it there but perhaps take a closer look at this thread. I still haven't seen a coherent argument why limited editions are inherently wrong other than "everyone can't have one... and that's wrong."

How is it similar to anything else on the game if its the first time they are actually LIMITING the amount of people that can buy a cosmetic item? Yeah they can have it be random by putting it behind card drops or only have some costumes available at some specific times of the year but you still can always have a chance to win/grab it. Its totally different.

 

[Baron von Loathsome]

You can claim I'm the one who took it their but perhaps take a closer look at this thread. I still haven't seen a coherent argument why limited editions are inherently wrong other than "everyone can't have one... and that's wrong."

There's really no good reason to limit these to 2500 copies or less. These are digital products, and non-tradeable ones at that. With a comic or a toy, LE's are understandable, you can use those resources for other comics or toys. With LE digital products, you're just limiting the amount of people who can buy your product, and it's pretty much only people who happen to be able to log into the game and buy it when it's available. And limiting the time it's available and the copies available, you limit the amount of people who can buy it, ie, the amount of money you can make off of it. Non-tradeable means that it lacks the after-market value of LE physical products, which also hurts the value of it. And if you want it for bragging rights? It's tied to the game's server, so when the game is shut down, that special LE costume is gone for good.

And on top of all of that, making highly requested costumes LEs just pisses off the fans who really wanted it but weren't able to buy it that day. That is bad PR.

 

[Moondrop]

How is it similar to anything else on the game if its the first time they are actually LIMITING the amount of people that can buy a cosmetic item? Yeah they can have it be random by putting it behind card drops or only have some costumes available at some specific times of the year but you still can always have a chance to win/grab it. Its totally different.

I understood the fundamental monetization system of this game to be F2P supported primarily by the sale of cosmetic items. Making the cosmetic items limited in quantity is going even further in this direction by my logic.

There's really no good reason to limit these to 2500 copies or less.

I could be mistaken but I'm pretty sure the reason is $$$.

 

[Sblargh]

It's not an overtone. I'm being overtly anti-capitalistic in my posts.

 

[Rhaknar]

here come the "gaz is the best they listen to us" posts

 

[Baron von Loathsome]

I could be mistaken but I'm pretty sure the reason is $$$.

It's incredibly short-sighted and impractical.

 

[xrayregime]

keep blowin' those overtonessssss

 

[Anoregon]

keep blowin' those overtonessssss

 

[Absoludacrous]

The backlash on this will be immense

I mean, it was a pretty obvious call, obviously, but still, I just want to point out how obviously awesome i am. Obviously.

 

[Drayco21]

here come the "gaz is the best they listen to us" posts

All according to plan.

 

[Anoregon]

All according to plan.

Gaz has next-level keikaku.

 

[Noray]

Thread is delivering.

Anyway, in good faith: I can kind of see the incentive to want to create some kind of collector culture? I'm honestly more inclined to think they didn't think people would be THIS pissed off, because I just seriously doubt that they'd make more money selling 2000 costumes at these prices than if they were on the store for like 900G or whatever. And I doubt they thought they would think that, but I have no idea what the numbers are on the costumes they sell, so *shrug*

But yeah actually Sblargh's earlier 3-step post went through my head almost exactly as like, this is clearly how it's gonna go. Of course people are gonna be pissed, limited digital costumes that can't be traded is a moronic idea top to bottom.

 

[ThirtyFour]

The new LE thread is up, they're just basically chase costumes now but with that new visual effect.

I have no strong opinion on this either way.

http://forums.marvelheroes.com/discussion/175178/variant-costumes-announcement#latest

 

[Nokagi]

The new LE thread is up, they're just basically chase costumes now but with that new visual effect.

I have no strong opinion on this either way.

http://forums.marvelheroes.com/discussion/175178/variant-costumes-announcement#latest

See Gaz listens to us.

 

[Indignate]

The new LE thread is up, they're just basically chase costumes now but with that new visual effect.

I have no strong opinion on this either way.

http://forums.marvelheroes.com/discussion/175178/variant-costumes-announcement#latest

Kind of what they should have done in the beginning.

But it depends on the economy of the costumes and how much each actually manage to sells. Putting the LE of Star-Lord at 2500 makes me believe that the regular probably sold sub 2000. As an LE, that costume would sell out, as a Chase-esque, they might not even sell more than the regular version.

 

[Absoludacrous]

Still crazy that this way they get to sell minor updates of costumes at inflated prices while getting praised for it.

Imagine if they had just announced a maskless Winter Soldier costume for $12.50 from the get go.

 

[Nokagi]

Basically chase costumes part 2.

 

[Vecks]

Somewhat off-topic, but are there no more carnival gift boxes for login?
Didn't get one today.

 

[inky]

Imagine if they had just announced a maskless Winter Soldier costume for $12.50 from the get go.

Some of the chase costumes are just recolors and those are 1350 across the board.

Basically chase costumes part 2.

Basically.


Edit: Well, except for the drop part. Are they still pretending costumes can drop in-game? Because you know, after 1400 played and not a single costume drop I'm going on a limb and saying that every person who claims they do is a liar, and they are just pulling one on mt.

 

[Frostinferno]

Still crazy that this way they get to sell minor updates of costumes at inflated prices while getting praised for it.

Imagine if they had just announced a maskless Winter Soldier costume for $12.50 from the get go.

Yup, this is my issue with the new way. Unless the visual and emote are really cool and worth the extra cost (which I doubt they will be), this is nothing more than a way to lure fans into paying more than they should.

The Hawkeye costume is okay for this idea as it is its own costume, but the other two are minor edits the artists could've done during a lunch period. Not a fan of this version of their idea either.

 

[styl3s]

No more limited? Awww man.

Still threw $50 on my account to buy these.

 

[Sblargh]

There. Now the communists have won. Everyone will be able to buy minor-change costumes for the same price that will probably sell a lot more than 2000 units while not destroying the goodwill of your paying customers.

It's over.