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Marvel Heroes |OT| GAF Assemble
- Thread starter inky
- Start date
Frostinferno
Member
It's a F2P game, making money from stuff like this comes with the territory. Better Gaz makes some money (at the expense of a small percentage of players' "fun") to continue making the game, than not making enough to continue and in turn kill everyone's fun.
It's not like they can't just put in another wave of chase costumes. Not to mention they already talked about uniques/legendaries and relics which will also serve that chase role.
The only plausible way I see them reintroducing those costumes to players is by making the UP available for purchase again for a limited time or something. Selling those costumes individually would cause a much more massive stink than what these chase costumes did.
Let me get this straight... what *other* players wear somehow gets in the way of your fun?? Which by the way, is completely cosmetic and doesn't affect the abilities of a player's character.
If so, I'm sorry but that's totally ridiculous.
Put me squarely in the camp that applauds Gaz for putting costumes on sale, that's the way it should be. Anything strictly cosmetic should be buyable.
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
Since these last few patches, I've experienced at least 2 disconnects per play period (anywhere from 1-3 hours). Is that normal?
I have been getting random disconnects when zoning out of MM using the door at spawn area.
But nothing randomly while playing.
I disconnect if I use the portal instead of bodyslider for MM.
Red Arremer
Member
So, some of you probably know this, but you can look into the game's files and see some of the characters that Gazillion is working on to become playable. Some of them have been in the "next hero"-poll they posted a while ago, but I felt like sharing all of the heroes and costumes that are at least somewhere in the development progress.
I've also seen some new additions to that list, and at least one has been removed. Remember that none of this might end up in the game, but it's still interesting to see.
Here's what is currently in the works in terms of characters flagged as players (not counting the 4 already announced heroes):
Some of them have been there since well into the Beta, but some of them have only recently been added - in particular
Now, here's small a list of suits I can see to be upcoming as well (unless I missed one of them having been added, but I don't think I've seen em ingame):
If you guys want, I can keep this up to date as I see new additions.
I've also seen some new additions to that list, and at least one has been removed. Remember that none of this might end up in the game, but it's still interesting to see.
Here's what is currently in the works in terms of characters flagged as players (not counting the 4 already announced heroes):
Beast, Black Cat, Domino, Dr. Doom, Dr. Strange, Elektra, Gambit, Iron Fist, Juggernaut, Magik, MODOK, Moonstone, Nightcrawler, Psylocke, Rogue, She-Hulk, Spider-Woman, War Machine, Wonder Man and X-23.
Furthermore, I remember that there was Mr. Fantastic in the files tagged for PCs as well, but he seems to have been removed.
Furthermore, I remember that there was Mr. Fantastic in the files tagged for PCs as well, but he seems to have been removed.
Some of them have been there since well into the Beta, but some of them have only recently been added - in particular
Beast, Black Cat, Elektra, Iron Fist and MODOK (with latter being a big surprise to me). Some of them also have player voice banks already.
Furthermore, War Machine has an Iron Patriot suit in the game files (that was added together with Stark's), while what I assume to be the starting suit is tagged "Iron Man 3".
Furthermore, War Machine has an Iron Patriot suit in the game files (that was added together with Stark's), while what I assume to be the starting suit is tagged "Iron Man 3".
Now, here's small a list of suits I can see to be upcoming as well (unless I missed one of them having been added, but I don't think I've seen em ingame):
Cable: Bjorn
Iron Man: Nightclub Black, Nightclub Red
Rocket Raccoon: Guardians OG (I imagine OG = original? I would guess that to be the cyan/grey suit)
Iron Man: Nightclub Black, Nightclub Red
Rocket Raccoon: Guardians OG (I imagine OG = original? I would guess that to be the cyan/grey suit)
If you guys want, I can keep this up to date as I see new additions.
If something is rare, and i have one, then i can get some value for its rarity. Especially if i'm the type who likes to get a good epeen stroking by everyone ooh-ing and aah-ing over my shiny new clothes, which many people who play ARPG's are since thats been the entire point of most other ARPG's. But now everyone has one, so its lost most of its value. Now, if chase costumes weren't supposed to be rare, i'd see your point. But the entire point of chase costumes was that they were rare; now their just any other costume.
Considering how many costumes are already in the shop, I don't see a problem with Gaz making a few only available in game. It gives me something to work for. If they want to make them easier to obtain in game, say by having them drop more off harder content, so there less a sign of being luck, and more a sign of effort, thats fine. But to completely trivialize them? Thats a little overboard.
But like I said, its not a huge problem for me, since i don't play to show off and didn't like the costume anyway, but if i had a chase that I did like, and now everyone else can have it, it would definitely be a problem
Well it's not like we can show off an armor set that's special like other games. Costumes are the only way to separate my Iron Man from the others on-screen. It's nice to have things that are rare or exclusive. Is that so hard to understand? It's individualism.
chickdigger802
Banned
woverine's chase outfit looks great. kinda want to buy woverine now lol. how is he atm?
Red Arremer
Member
Agreed.
Frankly, most of the names on that list aren't really surprising or curveballs, although I wouldn't have expected some of them before characters that aren't even on that list.
Using game logic, I even could explain that one name that seems the oddest one out,
MODOK. It's because no other one of the villains listed there uses mental damage. That and Marvel has been pushing MODOK quite a bit lately.
Tragicomedy
Member
I'm frankly surprised by all the villains on the list. Isn't the whole point of the game now to take down Doom? How is he going to fit in as a playable character.
Only interested in Iron Fist from that list.
Only interested in Iron Fist from that list.
Frostinferno
Member
I wouldn't put too much stock in what happens to be in the game files. X-23 for example has four costumes already modeled but Doomsaw has confirmed they won't be adding her in for a long time, if ever. Also we know roughly who the next 10 characters will be, straight from Doomsaw himself:
Wolverine is pretty OP. Along the lines of Hulk & Human Torch
He's really good now. Definitely the best character I own at the moment.
Ugh yeah that figures since X-23 is the character I want added the most.
I'm surprised that so many people are up in arms because of the rare costume on the store thing. Personally, I think that is Fucking stupid. I am loving this FREE game so whatever that makes them money and does not break the game have my full support. I want them to be profitable so they can keep developing the game. They are running a business not a charity.
Also, most people won't be able to play the game as much as they want to because of real life commitments. That actually makes the rare drop costumes unattainable for a LOT of people ruining their enjoyment of the game.
Also, most people won't be able to play the game as much as they want to because of real life commitments. That actually makes the rare drop costumes unattainable for a LOT of people ruining their enjoyment of the game.
beyond_death
Member
This is the main reason why I'm not bothered that Chase costumes are purchasable. There are some that I really like and I felt like I would never ever get them because they were so damn rare. From my time since early access I've only ever seen a dude with a Ronin Hawkeye costume.
Red Arremer
Member
Of course, that's what I said. But X-23 definitely is in progress of being worked on, else she wouldn't have been on that poll, etc.
I'm just saying, for those who haven't checked it out themselves yet - I always find stuff like this fascinating, especially if it's stuff that is scrapped or newly added.
I agree with you, but you're missing the point. Not all people play for the same reason. For the people with money, but not a lot of time, they already have plenty of costumes they can buy. Gaz is still getting their money. But what they don't have much of at all at this point is stuff for stuff for people who like to show off. There is pretty much nothing for them now. Those people bought potions, other characters, pets, and the occasional costume too. And if theres nothing for them to show off, they might well leave, giving gaz no more money.
So, yes, they get a little bit of money from one audience, but risk losing another one entirely. Thats why its a poor business decision.
keeblerdrow
Member
Actually, from my perspective it's not even a matter of showing off to other players. That's certainly something nice, but that argument lends strength to the short-sighted argument I've seen in response here: that making these costumes available on the store is ruining someone's fun.
It's not. Making the costume someone wants, like Hawkeye Ronin or Phoenix 5 Cyclops, available for purchase does give someone what they want. And that's wonderful for that person, but it's unealthy for any game built like Marvel Heroes. With any loot game and especially for one that is free to play with a microtransaction model there is a certain economic exchange you have to have with your players that is underlying you entire item structure. You have to give the player reasons to play your game. You have to give them something to chase. The aptly named chase costumes were actually a fantastic model for incentive but they were locked behind an overtweaked loot system.
Chase costumes were an artificially created status symbol. Behind a different way of thinking about rewards, a way you find in World of Warcraft, they could have been the items that presented to other players evidence of work put in. Like a tier set from the raids in WoW. They could be kept rare and an outward symbol to others that something had been achieved and a person put dedicated amounts of time into the hero they are playing.
Chase costumes in Marvel Heroes were instead made as RNG superstars. I think this was a poor way to handle it, but it still created the scarcity needed to make them a goal for players. They were added to a pool of other items available to drop on such a low percent basis that, like many have said here, no one ever saw them. It undermined the feeling for everyone that if they just kept playing they could also get one of these costumes.
The current model for chase costumes was not a reward model that inspired play well. But with the introduction of the costumes to the store, it has removed any rarity to the items at all. This move is akin to Nintendo putting their games on iOS or Android phones. It's a great short-term move for cash inflow, but it is ultimately hurting your long term business prospects. Unlike Nintendo, though, Gazillion can just make more rare or sought after items. So they have an opportunity to still make items to chase. The costumes put up on the store this weekend should just stay there, their incentive has been greatly diminished.
So what's the difference between these costumes and artifacts and armor? There's no constant reminders of artifacts and armor to the playerbase that they exist and should be desired. The value in chase costumes is not to the player that owns them. From Gazillion's perspective, the value of chase costumes is in their ability to inspire others to continue playing. And part of the free to play model is the get players to continue to play, because the more they play the more they invest in the game, and the more they are apt to spend money on the game.
A good structure for new chase costumes would be to put them as a carrot at the end of a very long stick. If someone has leveled a hero up to max, and then done certain in-game goals, combined with a bit of RNG, the costume should be available to them. This could be done in addition to the nightmare RNG that still exists for all costume drops.
It's not. Making the costume someone wants, like Hawkeye Ronin or Phoenix 5 Cyclops, available for purchase does give someone what they want. And that's wonderful for that person, but it's unealthy for any game built like Marvel Heroes. With any loot game and especially for one that is free to play with a microtransaction model there is a certain economic exchange you have to have with your players that is underlying you entire item structure. You have to give the player reasons to play your game. You have to give them something to chase. The aptly named chase costumes were actually a fantastic model for incentive but they were locked behind an overtweaked loot system.
Chase costumes were an artificially created status symbol. Behind a different way of thinking about rewards, a way you find in World of Warcraft, they could have been the items that presented to other players evidence of work put in. Like a tier set from the raids in WoW. They could be kept rare and an outward symbol to others that something had been achieved and a person put dedicated amounts of time into the hero they are playing.
Chase costumes in Marvel Heroes were instead made as RNG superstars. I think this was a poor way to handle it, but it still created the scarcity needed to make them a goal for players. They were added to a pool of other items available to drop on such a low percent basis that, like many have said here, no one ever saw them. It undermined the feeling for everyone that if they just kept playing they could also get one of these costumes.
The current model for chase costumes was not a reward model that inspired play well. But with the introduction of the costumes to the store, it has removed any rarity to the items at all. This move is akin to Nintendo putting their games on iOS or Android phones. It's a great short-term move for cash inflow, but it is ultimately hurting your long term business prospects. Unlike Nintendo, though, Gazillion can just make more rare or sought after items. So they have an opportunity to still make items to chase. The costumes put up on the store this weekend should just stay there, their incentive has been greatly diminished.
So what's the difference between these costumes and artifacts and armor? There's no constant reminders of artifacts and armor to the playerbase that they exist and should be desired. The value in chase costumes is not to the player that owns them. From Gazillion's perspective, the value of chase costumes is in their ability to inspire others to continue playing. And part of the free to play model is the get players to continue to play, because the more they play the more they invest in the game, and the more they are apt to spend money on the game.
A good structure for new chase costumes would be to put them as a carrot at the end of a very long stick. If someone has leveled a hero up to max, and then done certain in-game goals, combined with a bit of RNG, the costume should be available to them. This could be done in addition to the nightmare RNG that still exists for all costume drops.
A poor business decision? No. If anything these chase costumes existing at all was one of their biggest revenue mistakes to date.
Of all the things Gazillion is going to spend on building Marvel Heroes, what they can actually turn around and sell right now is very little. No box sales or upfront costs means your entire business is based on what you can sell and how much of it you have to sell. For Gazillion, that is basically only two things: heroes and costumes.
Heroes however are also content and are not something they can feasible sell exclusively and the store and continue to exist. This is why Splinters now exist; even though they were still giving away heroes before Splinters, they weren't actually giving them to everyone. The chance was there - but the chance is only real as long as the person at the keyboard is actually playing the game. Someone very quickly realized the effects of the combination of these two problems, and now the store's competition with the game's own content in terms of heroes applies to every customer in the game.
So that literally leaves costumes as the primary item left for them to exert significant pressure on their players to actually buy. Enter chase costumes, new competition for the store that is actually at a disadvantage this time because it can't even offer this item. The content now dishes up more potential costumes than the store. Worse yet, these chase costumes having scarcity means that if a player actually lands one of these, the result is them being less likely to buy a costume for that character. Not only was the costume free, but it was "worth more" and applies overt pressure on the value proposition they've allowed the store to make. It cost them just as much money to develop, but not only are they preventing themselves from making any money back, the act of actually giving one to a player winds up making them want to buy less costumes (only potentially new heroes, a gamble that they weighted against themselves significantly).
Nothing about this proposition is logical outside of them needing a significantly rare item group to chase to help maintain time investment. Luckily while that is also needed, it is easily replaceable, and doesn't need to come in the form of self-defeating competition.
Having scarce items that you can show off in a game like this is one thing, but to involve that in one of your primary (and precious few) revenue sources is another. From a business standpoint, this needed to happen sooner than later, and needs to never happen again - they need to be able to have at least one relatively protected source of revenue.
I still think achievements would be a good addition to this game. A large number of people like playing these type of games for the number chasing grinding and to show off to other players their awesome loot. Achievements would cover both grinding and the e-peen segment of the audience. Give rewards for finishing achievements too, like splinters.
Much better to have bar filling as the chase, instead of awesome costumes that are tied to RNG. Leave the long-term chase as something that people feel they can work towards with enough time, instead of luck. Make them feel like playing for hundreds of hours is actually worth something, instead of making people feel bad when they get nothing after grinding so long.
Also, I wonder how they're going to handle endgame. Good idea to actually have proper group dungeons or raids. Just imagine awesome raids against Galactus or Thanos.
Much better to have bar filling as the chase, instead of awesome costumes that are tied to RNG. Leave the long-term chase as something that people feel they can work towards with enough time, instead of luck. Make them feel like playing for hundreds of hours is actually worth something, instead of making people feel bad when they get nothing after grinding so long.
Also, I wonder how they're going to handle endgame. Good idea to actually have proper group dungeons or raids. Just imagine awesome raids against Galactus or Thanos.
I played for over 60 hours and I never had any costume or character dropped for me when they were using the old drop system. And you are right, it really made me feel bad.
Great post. Totally agree with you.
Good points, but you keep focusing on costumes as if they are the only source of income Gaz has. There's also potions, unstable molecules. All things that you're casual players probably aren't going to use, but the longer playing hardcore players will. In the course of chasing the costumes, they could well spend a good deal more on pots and crafting materials then what they'd spend on a single costume, and thats assuming they don't buy another costume in the mean time. By giving them what they want now they've lost all the "well i want that but in the meantime i'll get this" sales.
It also hurts possible future revenue. Right now, they're focusing on getting the game to a state it really should have been at for launch (adding difficulties, putting in more content) and until they're at that state, everything they add will be free. But i guarantee you eventually they'll start adding expansion packs, dlcs, endgame raids and other missions that you have to pay for to access. And they need suitable rewards. Slightly better gear that no one can see won't be enough for some people. Better chances at chase costumes would have been a great reward for that, but now they've seriously cut down how much people will want them. Why pay for new content, when you can grind a bit and buy it when it goes on sale again?
Unless they end up making entirely new costumes which can only be gotten in the new content. Which, to be fair, could be exactly what their doing.
Your argument also assumes that Gaz is making any money off them. Correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't they only purchaseable with shards? Which can only be gotten by playing the game? So in the end, they've only put more stress on their servers and bandwidth, which costs them money, and in return only destroyed the value of their most valuable items.
As someone who went over 100 hours without a character drop, believe me, I do feel your pain, and i'm glad they switched to shards for characters. But I don't see a problem for holding back a few cosmetic items as chase rewards, especially when theres a large number of other cosmetic items you can pay for.
Nah you can buy them with real money also.Think they are like 13.00 or so. Which is the way I assume everyone is getting them cause I doubt very many people have 600 shards yet.
Frostinferno
Member
Huh, are you talking about the chase costumes with this statement? You can buy them with real money from the Store.
Have you been making all your arguments on this subject without knowing that?
nicoga3000
Saint Nic
Really? That's a super bummer. I've held a few of my good blues to upgrade when I level my crafter. But I guess I'll say screw that.
Yeah that's one of the only things that is total crap in this game. They should really re-think that requirement.
Like, blues to cosmics? Or are purples epic? How does that work stat/affix-wise? Should I even bother?
BTW is this still the fastest way to get into the supergroup?
If you are on a list I'll try to invite you, but it's faster if you just send a tell my way (chat command is: "/t inky your message") asking to be added to the group.
Frostinferno
Member
Are epics purple? When you transform how does the gear change to accomodate for a different character with different skills?
Frostinferno
Member
Yeah epics are purples, once I saw your edit I ninja edited my post =P
I'm pretty sure that transforming an item just selects a random skill or skill tree from the new character to replace the original character's. All non character specific stuff stays the same.
Edit: Here's an example I stole from someone else -
Yeah.
Frostinferno
Member
Defense amount on each piece of gear varies per character, the transformation takes that into account.
Any chance I could get an invite too? Same name as here.
Sure, give me a sec.
chickdigger802
Banned
bought woverine (i have a disease, buy new characters, never really play much lol).
that heal... damn.
that heal... damn.
What level are you? I have a few characters at level 1 I wouldn't mind playing with.
chickdigger802
Banned
Nah, i thought that was the case. But havne't checked and just thought to myself that ll the mentions i've seen mention shards but not cash, so i ended up overthinking myself.
They are not in the game yet. Probably with the next small patch.