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Marvel Studios’ Thunderbolts* | Teaser Trailer | Only In Theaters May 2025
- Thread starter ArtHands
- Start date
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CliffyB's Cock Holster
Which character do they lead with in the trailer?
And ethnicity has nothing to do with it, its about them trotting out the girlboss trope AGAIN.
Pushing moral relativism. AGAIN.
No presentation about story or character, but lets just show more CG explosions and shit. AGAIN.
Recycling an old song. AGAIN.
Its the repetition. Not the specifics of the content.
How many times have we seen this exact same movie (from Disney) before?
ManaByte
Gold Member
Like it or not, Florence Pugh is the biggest star in the movie. She's the only one to be in a Best Picture winning movie.
It's DARK AVENGERS.
It's not their fault if you don't understand what the words "Teaser trailer" mean.
Marvel has not adapted Thunderbolts/Dark Avengers before this movie.
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CliffyB's Cock Holster
I'm not averse to "formula" on principle, but I tend to make judgements based on what resources are to hand. A cheap horror movie with a stock character is going to live and die on the strength of its creative kills. A martial arts movie on the strength of its fight choreography, etc.
However, when they spend many millions on the budget, have actual talent as performers, I don't feel particularly stingy for expecting a fresh fucking take/idea or two, or at least a compelling story/scenario reason to justify that expense.
I'm not judging the movie, I'm judging the trailer. You know, the thing that's supposed to sell me on the idea of the movie.
Well guess what, they didn't sell me shit I haven't seen a dozen times before over the past few years, and so my interest is basically nil. A situation unlikely to change when the project is saddled with such a generic, non-illustrative name as "Thunderbolts".
ManaByte
Gold Member
It's a teaser trailer. Teasers traditionally don't say anything about the story.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Are you suggesting I revise my opinion solely because its a teaser trailer? Why should I?
Look, I'm only speaking for myself, but I just described what I saw, how eye-rollingly familiar and generic it looked, and my reaction to it.
Revolutionary
Member
I find it funny that the most prestigious movie she's been in was a Christopher Nolan movie, the director of The Dark Knight trilogy.
She got a taste of real filmmaking and then it's back to Disney's slop mines
But hey, a paycheck's a paycheck. Hope she's taking Disney to the bank.
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ManaByte
Gold Member
I find it funny that the most prestigious movie she's been in was a Christopher Nolan movie, the director of The Dark Knight trilogy.
She got a taste of real filmmaking and then it's back to Disney's slop mines
But hey, a paycheck's a paycheck. Hope she's taking Disney to the bank.
The Cockatrice
Member
The only thing Dark about this shallow safe action movie is that it'll remain forever in the dark after its debut.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
I don't think it's safe. It's starring all the background characters from previous shows and movies.
Btw... Bucky is going to be leader of the team because the rest aren't capable of acting AS a team. He's the only one who's had that experience of being on a team (The Howling Commandos).
See, this is an interesting convention with comics. WHY, exactly, would this group of individuals, often with near god-like powers (and the Widows are basically that through various contrivances) need to work as a cohesive unit? By unit I mean in a fashion like a SWAT team where they execute specific rehearsed roles in a single combat encounter. Instead they should be a TEAM of separate skill sets that enact a plan that takes advantage of each of their strengths, like most HEIST films. There it is not about how well one character can throw another through a hole created by a third in order to punch the bad guy, but how all these powers can come together in interesting and novel ways to achieve a shared goal. In that sense Buckys past isn't terribly relevant to how well someone can organize, motivate, and direct supers to accomplish a task.
That is what, IMHO, is missing from a lot of these team-up superhero films. Sure they get a flashy CGI heavy bewildering couple of fight scenes, but you rarely see the powers work in novel ways. The heist stuff is in Ant-man, for example, and that is basically a solo operation. Compare it to the recent DnD movie where the heavy, the druid, the wizard, and the bard all got to shine in their own ways and only really operated like a single unit in battle at the very end. The MCU really suffers from a very formulaic approach to how their films are constructed, driven largely by the need for such advanced planning on the action set-pieces I think, which makes it hard to get excited for any 'new' film using characters you aren't already vested in. I've little confidence the villain of the villain of the film (Julia LD?) is going to do much either.
Doom85
Member
So…..I’ve actually been accidentally spoiled by what the asterisk means, and a character many are expecting to appear if Disney has worked out a deal to make it happen.
This is truly meant to be Dark Avengers, and Norman Osborn is the current owner of Avengers Tower (as this was apparently the case in the specific comics storyline). Julia’s character should likely be small beans compared to him.
And ain’t no way they would bring in Norman Osborn, especially if they have to make a deal with Sony every time they use a Spidey character in a movie, and have him not do much. If anything, that makes for an interesting predicament for Peter in a future film: he knows the Norman of his universe could also be a Green Goblin like the Tobey universe Norman he encountered, but with no proof of that (as Dr. Strange never really spoke to the Tobey universe Norman IIRC, and Ned and MJ had their memories of those events wiped presumably) and with no close relationship to any Avenger (Tony is dead, Happy and Strange don’t know Peter anymore, etc.), Norman holds all the cards to do nefarious shit behind the scenes while Peter can only have his suspicions and try to uncover the truth on his own. That’s a pretty cool story set-up IMHO, if that’s how it roughly plays out.
And ain’t no way they would bring in Norman Osborn, especially if they have to make a deal with Sony every time they use a Spidey character in a movie, and have him not do much. If anything, that makes for an interesting predicament for Peter in a future film: he knows the Norman of his universe could also be a Green Goblin like the Tobey universe Norman he encountered, but with no proof of that (as Dr. Strange never really spoke to the Tobey universe Norman IIRC, and Ned and MJ had their memories of those events wiped presumably) and with no close relationship to any Avenger (Tony is dead, Happy and Strange don’t know Peter anymore, etc.), Norman holds all the cards to do nefarious shit behind the scenes while Peter can only have his suspicions and try to uncover the truth on his own. That’s a pretty cool story set-up IMHO, if that’s how it roughly plays out.
ManaByte
Gold Member
They literally show Avengers Tower in the trailer with JLD.
SidViscous
Member
Looks fine to watch on Disney+
Honestly, Marvel are going to struggle to make a movie that I wouldn't rather watch on Disney+ these days, I don't care about half these characters, I don't really care about what the ending means for Kang or Dr.Doom, I don't care about the stakes because I'm out of the loop due to so many boring spin-off shows I've not watched.
Honestly, Marvel are going to struggle to make a movie that I wouldn't rather watch on Disney+ these days, I don't care about half these characters, I don't really care about what the ending means for Kang or Dr.Doom, I don't care about the stakes because I'm out of the loop due to so many boring spin-off shows I've not watched.
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Announce a fucking X-Men movie already.
yet_another_alt
Member
I like Kamen Rider.
Also I'm one of the few people that enjoyed the Black Widow movie. Nice to see more Red Guardian. Would love to see how he interacts with Sam, Bucky and US Agent.
ManaByte
Gold Member
“He went toilet in my hands”
Toons
Member
Moral relativism has been a theme of the thunderbolts comics for 30 years lmfao.
Yelena is also a character whos been around for a very long time.
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EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.1
It's marvel's right to make movie's on lessor known characters, we just had loki tv show (never thought possible), Ant Man movies etc. how about the fact that the joker is having a second movie?
MonkD
Member
I'm not on either fence of this movie. But this definitely isn't Dark Avengers.
Dark Avengers was Norman Osborn's team of hero-cosplaying murderers. And it has nothing in common with the original Zemo lead Thunderbolts either.
I just want to put this out there before anyone starts hyping this movie on the merits of the comics that this supposedly adapts.
ManaByte
Gold Member
The movie literally was written as Dark Avengers. They changed the title during the script process.
The MCU isn't the comics. Age of Ultron had absolutely nothing to do with the comic it was named after.
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MonkD
Member
I'm just saying. The only connection this movie has to Dark Avengers is that they may have called it that during the scripting process. There are no other connections other than Sentry being there.
I'm aware about Age of Ultron too. But at least Ultron was in the story, and the comic was quite recent at the time. But it was still a terrible way to go about. Not that anyone wanted a story about Wolverine traveling through time to kill Hank Pym a bunch of times..
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ManaByte
Gold Member
MonkD
Member
Norman had Stark Tower.They also operate out of Avengers Tower.
Not sure if they are actually working for Valentina or if they've been setup by her. I'd prefer if she actually had a proper super villain team lead by Zemo. But I don't think he's been part of any leaks.
ManaByte
Gold Member
Fan headcanon isn’t reality.
MonkD
Member
I'm talking about the comics.
Ulysses 31
Member
They're separate entities. The comics might give an idea where the MCU is moving to at best. Having to use the comics to explain what's happened/happening in the MCU is bad writing on the MCU side of things.
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MonkD
Member
I'm well aware. This was just a response to the idea that the asterisk is supposed to imply that Thunderbolts are the "Dark Avengers". Dark Avengers was comic book title, I don't think anyone called themselves that in universe.
My latest response was supposed to be cheeky, but that was in response to him saying that the movie had two things in common with the alleged source material. Like I was trying to say earlier, I'm don't think this looks particularly good or bad. I'll probably see it close to its release. But I just wanted to make it clear for anyone who is not as familiar with the comics, that the material that is getting referenced has no relation to what I've seen in the trailer. Would you agree?
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Solarstrike
Member
RAÏSanÏa
Member
Bucky showing off gives the impression they're letting the characters use their powers to their fuller potential. A Zemo-nightmare squad that's reusable like mutants in Origins Wolverine, not suicide squad. Wonder if they'll do anything with Sharon Carter.
How any past history with Red Guardian and Bucky develops will be interesting to see.
I liked the Black Widow movie too. Car chase and fall of the Red Room were great spectacle.
How any past history with Red Guardian and Bucky develops will be interesting to see.
What shows do you watch for moral absolutism?
Doom85
Member
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Was more thinking about most escapist fantasy movies from Star Wars to Superman. You know, ones with clearly defined heroes and villains.
A position that until recently was the default, because -especially for young kids- knowing up is different from down is kinda important. Irony only works when there's an orthodox position to juxtapose against!
I'm not suggesting movies need to take traditional moral positions, but just pointing out there has been an over-correction here! Especially when its done in a thuddingly unsubtle way where every hero and villain needs to be drawn in shades of grey because that's the post-modernist political reality.
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NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
I'm taking a wait and see like I am with all of the comic book movies coming out. So far it's looks good and I'm happy that Hyperion is in this movie. As for CGI complaints, the movie still hasn't come out yet so they have time to fix the special effects
Doom85
Member
Pretty sure Marvel Comics, at least compared to DC where morality is generally more clearly split in terms of heroes vs. villains, has had greyer morality for many of its heroes for decades. You can’t blame the movies for following the source material that was released decades ago.
Heck, they can even fix older stories that had glaring issues. The Civil War comic was infamous for taking an interesting moral/political debate (should costumed heroes be required to register their secret identities with the government?) and ruining it with not only writers being unsure what the proposed Registration Act actually would require a hero to do but more importantly making Tony go to such extremes he was basically a full on villain so even pro-registration readers were siding with Cap because Tony was going too far for them. The Civil War movie fixed all this by making their proposed bill very clear in what it would require (the Avengers could only operate on missions approved by the UN) and made Steve and Tony stay in-character even if they both weren’t happy with some of the choices they had to make but none of those choices felt out-of-character for them in terms of what they stood for.
But regardless, I don’t think the MCU has really depicted the heroes in THAT grey of a light. They’re flawed, they make mistakes, but they mostly do the right thing. The Thunderbolts cast are different because they are NOT the Avengers and other heroes: Yelena was a Black Widow assassin, Alexei followed the Russian government blindly until they basically turned their back on him, Ghost attacked the heroes in Ant-man and the Wasp, John Walker lost public favor and the Cap mantle and turned to a more shady black ops job, Bucky was brainwashed by HYDRA into doing terrible things, and Taskmaster was likewise brainwashed by her father into doing terrible things. They all willingly or unwillingly have blood on their hands that isn’t justified or is morally questionable. That can’t be said for most of the Avengers and such. So I don’t think the MCU as a whole has THAT much grey morality.
Plus, it’s not like kids are total strangers to this. Batman TAS had plenty of villains that had sympathetic motivations. Freeze just wanting to save his wife is an obvious example. And good lord, Baby Doll:
A woman who has systemic hypoplasia, so her body never developed past from how she appeared when she was five. She was a famous child star on a sitcom but fell into obscurity after the show ended. As an adult, she began kidnapping her former cast members to help her reenact the show’s scenes until Batman finds her. She reveals those days on the sitcom were the only time she felt happiness and she wants to feel like a normal woman but can’t because the public won’t treat her like one. As she points her gun at Batman, she says, “why couldn’t you just let me play make believe?!” As her gun goes empty, she can only cry and hugs Batman, who allows it with an understanding look on his face, and she solemnly says her sitcom catch phrase, “…..I didn’t mean to.”
God damn.
God damn.
Also, Season 3 of Avatar the Last Airbender.
The Fire Nation has been the clear villains for the first two seasons (even if the Earth Nation had a few skeletons in their closet, it was small potatoes compared to the open warfare the Fire Nation was pushing). Sure, Uncle Iroh is a good person, and Zuko is morally conflicted, but pretty much all the other Fire Nation soldiers are pretty clearly the bad guys.
So, when Aang and co. infiltrate the Fire Nation, it must be mostly assholes, right?
NOPE. Plenty of citizens and even a few soldiers are pretty reasonable and nice people and while many may support their government’s decision for the war they don’t have any genuine hatred of the other nations and hope for a swift Fire Nation victory that allows for as many soldiers to come home to safely. It’s a clever subversion as due to the Fire Lord being the clear villain of the story, unknowing people would just stereotype his whole nation’s people based on his actions alone, but reality often doesn’t work that way and Avatar explores that concept well.
So, when Aang and co. infiltrate the Fire Nation, it must be mostly assholes, right?
NOPE. Plenty of citizens and even a few soldiers are pretty reasonable and nice people and while many may support their government’s decision for the war they don’t have any genuine hatred of the other nations and hope for a swift Fire Nation victory that allows for as many soldiers to come home to safely. It’s a clever subversion as due to the Fire Lord being the clear villain of the story, unknowing people would just stereotype his whole nation’s people based on his actions alone, but reality often doesn’t work that way and Avatar explores that concept well.
RAÏSanÏa
Member
Secular ethical positions, being naturalistic, model reality in general rather than trying to mold reality to fit an orthodoxy. As a kid I didn't enjoy past generations shows for kids very much. Those really old shows were tedious to me as a child. I liked Star Wars, Trek, Buck, Battlestar, Incredible Hulk, but get that is old timer stuff now and times change. Yet, many underlying aspects remain the same. Themes of Theseus, and irony still works since consequentialism is applied.
Movies and such advance as understanding of the world advances. Western world as the most advanced in secular ethics reflects in media its culture, but seems post-modern to the orthodox and to less developed parts of the world.
