Marvel Studios’ Thunderbolts* | Teaser Trailer | Only In Theaters May 2025
- Thread starter ArtHands
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Trogdor1123
Gold Member
I didn't watch falcon but they definitely pointed out he wasn't innocent and I would take it actually as a bit more witty as it would show how easy it is for the media brain wash people, which happens at the end of the movie too. I might be giving it too much credit though.
Revolutionary
Member
Definitely giving the writers too much credit. Walker doesn't even try to correct her, it's just treated as a fact which is why I found it distracting.
Indeed. I can usually look past stuff like that but I just found some parts particularly sloppy and had to make note of it.
Doom85
Member
-he flat out corrected her. "Well, he wasn't exactly innocent." Boom. The movie highlights Walker ultimately didn't deserve the mantle because he's egotistical and kind of a dick. Yes, the MCU public vetoed him for a different reason, but ultimately he wouldn't be Cap regardless with the attitude he had as it cost him his family as well.
-most of what jason said was wrong though. Like for example:
If they expose her, she would likewise expose Yelena, Walker, and Ghost as they worked for her. Alexei would then also not expose Val as he wouldn't want his daughter's life ruined. Bucky probably realizes Val is more useful now to be under their thumb. And Bob will just go along with what the others decide.
Why would the Thunderbolts not be cool with the media attention? Again, did you actually watch the movie? I'm sorry, I don't mean to accuse, but you're getting so much wrong. When they save people from the falling debris and such, and the people cheer, they all look happy and fulfilled. It's what Alexei always wanted to have back, Yelena wanted it as well, Bucky has already had it, Walker wanted it again, and we're given no reason to think Ghost wouldn't want it as her main hang up was denying she cared about others but that doesn't automatically mean she would be opposed to being publicly viewed as a hero. And of course Bob would want it, it's the Thunderbolts showing love and concern for him that helps him conquer the Void.
As for the "no explanation of incident" and "no others heroes come in to investigate", my god, man, it's a MOVIE, not a novel with footnotes as it would be a ridiculously bad decision to murder the pacing to fill in all these superfluous details. Like this is next level nitpicking. The post credits scene makes it clear FOURTEEN months will pass between this and Avengers Doomsday, that's far more than enough time for any investigation to be concluded. We don't need to hear the explanation, one could easily assume they blamed it on some unknown entity still at large or such. There, DONE, we don't need to bog down the film with something a viewer can easily piece together themselves.
You keep claiming Val should be exposed through an investigation, yet you provide no actual logical reasons why. A figure covered COMPLETELY in shadow floating in the sky terrorized the city. No witness would have a physical description matching Bob and he's not using his powers yet afterwards, so what exactly is going to be exposed? The soldiers killed by the Thunderbolts were in a remote facility and Val still had a ton of living soldiers who could quickly dispose of those bodies. Again, how is Val going to be magically exposed? You have to have actual evidence for that to happen, and you give us no reason to believe that anyone would find concrete evidence against her.
You really should start watching movies like normal as opposed to thinking a Cinema Sins-like mentality is the way to view them. And pro tip: Jeremy of Cinema Sins has said multiple times their videos are not how movies should be viewed, the videos are purely for fun, but actually viewing movies that way and expecting them to address every little minor question and detail would be horrible for films to do as that's not how the medium works, at least if you don't want to take the pacing out back and blast it with a shotgun.
Revolutionary
Member
"He wasn't exactly innocent" is a horrible characterization of a terrorist, but I'll admit that I forgot he spoke back... probably because I was stunned that she called a terrorist innocent
Maybe she watches that terrorist apologist on Twitch
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It's called "whistleblowing". Or turning states evidence, taking a plea bargin. If they were all basically assassins for Val commiting numerous illegal acts including murder, and now she is the Director of the CIA, tried to kill them all, unleashed an unstable potentially world ending monster, and then says "hey, now I have access to good PR, lets all be friends and you can continue to do your sirty work but now with a thin veneer of legitimacy", what kind of HERO takes that deal? It's a sabotage of the Bucky character for sure, not to mention cheapens any attempt at 'redemption' for Walker, Yelena, and Ghost.
Thunderbolts ISN'T a movie though, a film. It is a comic book "day in the life of..." filler episode. It doesn't have a central problem, it doesn't have proper narrative structure, foreshadowing, character arcs, or even a decent ensemble. Go back and watch the early MCU films, they are all connected, lightly, but they are also all internally resolving issues and structured like real movies, not just "episode 4 of phase 5 needed to set up episode 7 of phase 6" which is what is plaguing the newer MCU films. They are simultaneously lacking in stakes yet also feel empty since so much of the writing is a "nudge nudge, you 'memba that TV show 2 years ago, right?" nonsense.
As a "Yelena gets her groove back" story its passable. She does move from jaded disillusioned assassin to slightly less jaded and a little more optimistic mercenary. But she still lacks goals, desires, or altruistic motivations to elevate her from just a spin kicking widget for a larger entity. You got the sense that Black Widow had PURPOSE, at least as the enforcer of Nic Fury's will, but Yelena....nope.
And just watch Avengers 1 or GOTG to see how proper ensembles work. In 2 scenes of those films you get all you need about each character and how they interact. Each feels valued (by the scriptwriter) and each is given a key part to play. But here....just Yelena and her dad were critical, the attempts at "team work" were laughable. Again, it's passable when viewed through the lens of other recent MCU, this is far above the past 4-5 of them that aren't Deadpool or GOTG, but thats a low bar and not really cause for celebration. Maybe down the road this will be the "setting things right" benchmark but we'll see.
Don't know who Cinema Sins is. My complaints are pretty obvious flaws in the film structure and endemic throughout the MCU. You can fan wank to cover the gaps as much as you want, but it doesn't cover the glaring holes that the MCU film system keeps leaving, holes that were largely absent in the early days when they had competent directors and better vision to deliver a strong experience.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
"He wasn't exactly innocent" is a horrible characterization of a terrorist, but I'll admit that I forgot he spoke back... probably because I was stunned that she called a terrorist innocent
You skipped my post. Or maybe you have me on ignore.... Either way
That particular flagsmasher hadn't committed any violence against a person. Until that point, the only killer among them was Karli (the red head). Yeah, he wasn't innocent because of the property damage and thefts of food and supplies... But he didn't kill or harm anyone.
lachesis
Member
One thing I noticed in recent years - that the theater screen looks so dim! Some of the shots in the movie looked quite flat and low contrast in darker settings - especially in the first section when they all get together for the first time and trying to get out of there. (lots of underground segments, IIRC)
Maybe it's the theater issue - but also watched another movie (animation) on Imax on another venue a few months back - and felt the screen was generally dim too.
Perhaps something wrong with my aging eyes, or maybe I'm getting too used to the punchy HDR color on my old OLED...
I do expect the best of the best visual quality at the theaters, but so far I've been rather disappointed in recent years..
Maybe it's the theater issue - but also watched another movie (animation) on Imax on another venue a few months back - and felt the screen was generally dim too.
Perhaps something wrong with my aging eyes, or maybe I'm getting too used to the punchy HDR color on my old OLED...
I do expect the best of the best visual quality at the theaters, but so far I've been rather disappointed in recent years..
ChuckeRearmed
Member
As a huge fan of the 60s British TV show called The Avengers (which predates the Marvel comics by a few years, incidentally), I cracked up when the New Avengers name was announced at the end, as the 60s show also got a (mostly lousy) 70s follow-up with that name. Maybe Florence Pugh will turn up in the next film with a Purdey haircut for shits and giggles.
That was my experience with this film as well. Very muted colors, very dark lighting throughout. Maybe it was a choice to reflect the heavy mental health focus but I think it's just bad modern cinematography.
Jinzo Prime
Gold Member
Reason number 1 why I don't like going to theaters anymore. Dirty screens, low light levels, blurry picture quality, overly boomy bass with tinny treble. What is the point of seeing a film in the worst quality for the most price?
Doom85
Member
-if they expose her, they still expose the fact they willingly did illegal work for her. Why would Yelena and Walker, who want to be public heroes, ruin their rep like that? Hmm? And they're not going to do shady shit anymore, what part of they "own" Valentina did you not understand? The New Avengers are calling the shots, not her, so they can stick to missions that aren't shady as shit.
-this is a movie, come on now. And what you're saying is blatantly false.
"Doesn't have a central problem". You've literally being going on and on about Valentina, who do you think is the antagonist of the film, man?
"Doesn't have proper narrative structure". You can't just throw that out there without backup, how does it not have a narrative?
"Doesn't have foreshadowing." There's plenty of foreshadowing about Bob's true nature before it's revealed.
"Doesn't have character arcs" It clearly does, especially for Yelena and Bob.
"Doesn't have an ensemble" This is an ensemble cast, what are you talking about?
No stakes? All of NYC disappearing doesn't qualify as stakes?!
It's not a filler movie, come the fuck on. Yelena and Walker get to be public heroes like they wanted. Alexei gets to be a hero again. Ghost opens up to the idea of needing and working with others again. And Bob, geezus, how the fuck could anyone claim he didn't have an arc? Bob overcame the Void, and Valentina has lost her control and know has to operate as the New Avengers see fit.
What set up? The only set up was in the post credits scene. It is blatantly ridiculous to call the film as a whole "set up".
-she flat out expresses desire to be a hero in the first act. I don't know how much more the movie needs to spell these things out, yet somehow you still missed it.
-Yelena and Bob were actually the most focused on clearly, not Yelena and Alexei since Alexei was absent for about 30 minutes of the movie during all the stuff at the remote facility. Why would you not think that? Dude, be honest, have you actually watched the movie, because it sounds like you watched several reviews by certain Youtubers and such and are just repeating them. Because otherwise, I don't know how you've managed to miss things the movies blatantly spelled out, completely gotten it wrong where focus was, etc.
Also you're kidding yourself if you think all past team movies were equally balanced in focus. Hawkeye was focused far less in Avengers 1. Same with Thor in Age of Ultron. Same with Drax in Guardians 2. Team movies can't always give equal focus, doesn't make them bad movies. Sometimes giving certain characters more focus works better.
-obvious flaws? They're completely contradictory to what the movie presented, you're flat out even stating a significant numbers of events or details that aren't what were in the film. It really sounds like you saw the film and paid little attention to it because you were already determined it would be average at best, or you haven't seen it and are going entirely by reading an online summary and watching/reading reviews by certain types of individuals.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
It was.
Hawking Radiation
Wants to watch an Event Horizon porno
So is this thing good or bad?
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
No idea, I haven't watched the film yet since I'm waiting for the movie to come to streaming
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DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Bruv, you're patently wrong on all of this. Demonstrably wrong, in fact!
Bulletzen72
Member
It's actually very good!
lachesis
Member
Honestly, I watched Oppenheimer at the theater, just to see the explosion in big screen... but I knew I wouldn't be able to make out what they are saying because of all the mumbling of characters in Nolan movies and boomy sound defaults. So I had to use one of those closed caption device.
I do like theater experience, and used to think Home theater is a step down version - but now I prefer to watch at home with my setup, which isn't anything too extravagant to begin with. On top of that, two small popcorn with two soda cost me 32 bucks at that venue too!
Hawking Radiation
Wants to watch an Event Horizon porno
Cool. Will take the Mrs to go see this this weekend. Thanks bro
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Surprisingly good. A far cry from the usual CG filled schlock the last bunch of MCU movies have become. The few times it uses CG, it's done mostly tastefully.
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kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
I certainly take filmmaking advice from the guy who bashed Captain America: Brave New World, and yet his own movie that he wrote is rated much lower than said Cap film.
Captain America: Brave New World (2025) ⭐ 5.7 | Action, Adventure, Sci-Fi
1h 58m | PG-13www.imdb.com
Cmon, you're comparing a $180+ million Disney superhero movie with a crowdfunded "proof of concept" movie that raised £303,339 and is free to watch on Youtube.
Doom85
Member
Blair Witch Project had a budget of $60,000 (the higher number was for marketing and such), and it was also rated higher.
So spare me that excuse.
TheUnicornGuy
Gold Member
Watched it this weekend and really enjoyed it. It got a good amount of chuckles from me and the fight/action scenes were good.
Lambogenie
Member
I've found BW boring so is Ghost and Yelena any better?
The very purpose of whistleblowing is for folks involved in, or about to be, illegal or unethical activities to be able to report it without fear of reprisal. There are folks running around the world RIGHT NOW conducting clandestine missions to kill enemies of the state or gather intelligence, erode capabiities, etc. This is usually a secret, but 'legal' activity, but can be illegal. So whether or not these folks KNEW they were working 'off the books' for an evil woman not serving her country is somewhat irrelevant the second she became a government official because now she falls under a whole different set of rules.
Regardless of the real world technicalities, even within the show ANY redemptive arc should have been accompanied by pushing for justice for Val. But surprise surprise, she ends in an even more powerful position than when she begines. Hearings....gone. Investigation....gone. Congressional interest in her activities.....totally diverted because now she has Bucky WORKING FOR HER. Do you really think the scope and nature of the things the 'New Avengers' are gonna be doing is all that different than the illegal shit they were doing before? Hell, the LAST THING you see them do is clean up yet another mess of Val's, tell no one about it, and sweep it all under the rug. At least Thunderbolt Ross had the dignity and courage to put his dangerous ass self into jail, a REAL (flawed) hero.
It's not written as a film, its just a chunk of story like the 7th comic book of a 25 part series.
She isn't set up or framed properly. Her motivations are murky (does she have an ultierior motive to secure the US's interests, just advance OX, or seek power for herself?). Is she part of a larger more sinister entity like Hydra? What was the ultimate goal of the Sentry program? What powers where they hoping for, what capabilities were they trying to achieve? What was this 'killswitch' and why did they think it was even necessary and what was it supposed to do? As a villain she is paper-thin and ludicrous with how she just spits out all her 'secret' activities in rooms full of minions and an aide who is clearly not on board.
I'd say the actual antagonist is Void, if anything. He emerges from a scared and betrayed person, exerts his will across NYC, has a simple, but understandable. goal of sharing his pain, and is defeated by a group effort of individuals that are all experienced in dealing with the specific type of trauma he inflicts. So in that sense the team was the perfect one to take him down opposed to someone like (the real) Capt America or Thor who may not have the guilt and insight necessary to push through Void. Tony of course would be especially vulnerable I think.
We don't get a great set-up of Yelena wanting to stop Val, she just wants out. We don't get a great sense of why Bucky is after Val either, other than 'she bad and somehow I know things about her but can't prove any of it'. Had Bucky not apprehended the escaping team they would have likely just vanished, not sought revenge against Val. If this was a spy film, it was a sucky one. Compare it to the intrigue and suspense of Winter Soldier.
Nah, did you watch the show? There are a couple of bits about his "guilt trip" capability but very little about how or why he does it, how to defeat it, what threat it poses, etc. Void just comes basically outta nowhere as a response to this "killswitch" nebulous device. Was it a bomb in his head? Was it a chemical release? Sonic attack? Psychic? Who knows and the film doesn't care.
Sure, they get a bit.
Go watch a true ensemble film. See how each character has a role and how there is an economy of dialogue to make sure every character contributes. Bucky, Ghost, and Red Guardian are basically extras in this, Yelenas equivalent to Val's aide or main security guy.
And its all gone in seconds. Never to be mentioned again. And since we get no idea of what Void would DO with all this (drown the world in sorrow, actually get everyone to process their trauma and be released as happier people, eventually burn out and die, turn some folks into zombies and unleash an apocalypse, just hold on to Manhattan for himself....who knows???????) THERE ARE NO STAKES. There are events on screen, folks talk about stuff, but NONE OF IT is properly set up.
You can play obtuse and fan wank the show all you want, but these are the undeniable truths of the thing that was shown on screen.
Its ABSOLUTELY filler. No one is ever gonna need to see this show again. All these characters and their relationships can be managed with 4 minutes of dialogue in the next show.
If she wanted to be a heroine, then working with Bucky to take Val down and accept any blowback that comes her way is HOW A HERO DOES IT. What Val does is take the offering on the silver platter, hide her guilt, and keep on being a mercenary.
Drax got all you need to know about him in 2 scenes in GOTG. He stayed pretty consistent throughout the films, played his part, was a great success. Perfect example of proper ensemble writing. It's not about how MUCH script they get, but the tight, focused, distilled lines they have to bring in the necessary characterization. GOTG has it, Thunderbolts did not.
I've not watched or read a single online summary of the show, I WATCHED IT, apparently with a much more nuanced and thoughtful eye than you. I get it, you GUSH for this film, good on yah. But I can see the flaws and I still enjoyed it. I can call it like it is though, which is a filler experience that overly focuses on Yelena and sacrifices the other characters to do so and skips on being a tense espionage or covert action thriller for maudlin drama instead. Bucky should have been the star of this, every scene with him got YUGE response. There is an alternate version of this film where he tracks down and recruits each team member, highlighting their specific issues with Val and, like a proper LEADER, pushing their buttons to get them on board, exposing her crimes, then having to deal with Sentry/Void and flipping him over to their team. THAT FILM could have done gangbusters. This show I think will be lucky to even get close to Black Widow's BO and is unlikely to be profitable. Basically right where Brave New World sits, though Thunderbolts is a far better show.
Doom85
Member
-again, what part of public reputation are you not getting? Walker's chance at being Cap was ruined by it regardless of whether it was justified or not. Yelena wants to be a public hero so she likewise doesn't want her past exposed. It absolutely can damage their future, Natasha had to go to a hearing after the events of the Captain America: Winter Soldier film and defend herself after exposing all of SHIELD's secrets including her past, she wasn't let off the hook automatically because she was a major hero in Avengers 1 and Winter Solider.
-okay, you know claiming Valentina is in an even stronger position now is false as you were defending her a few weeks back regarding her wanting to obtain vibranium so she can put all other countries under the thumb of the U.S. Now, she can't do that or create super-powered individuals loyal to her. All her plans are on ice, and now she has to follow the lead of the New Avengers who have no reason to indulge in her wild ambitions. Bucky, and none of them, work for her, SHE works for THEM. She is their bitch, in case the ending of the film didn't make that clear despite Yelena making it abundantly clear.
I have no idea how you're comparing Ross to Val. Ross could still pose a danger if he lost control so he saw the need to be locked up in the Raft. Val has no superpowers and also no longer any control over anyone or anything. You're comparing apples and oranges.
-the film has a conflict (Val is trying to kill us, so let's stop her from doing that. Oh no, she made Bob lose control, we have to save him!) and it resolves said conflict. The characters have personal goals and they accomplish them. That is a film.
-
She wants the US to have power and for her to be the one wielding and controlling as much of that power as much as she can. Her motivation in Wakanda Forever and this film is consistent.
All the other stuff you're asking for the movie to bore us with every little minor detail, come on man. No rational person needs all these minor details. In other words:
I already addressed the kill switch thing in an earlier response to you. This is taking long enough, please do not make me repeat myself.
-Valentina is responsible for setting things up to the Void being unleashed though. She and her forces are the threat to the protagonists for the vast majority of the film. Even the Void only happens because of her actions. She is the true villain of the film.
-if you watched the movie, why are you getting these details wrong. Yelena didn't want "out", she wanted Valentine to put her on missions for the public to see, to actually be recognized as a hero. She flat out tells Valentine this over the phone early on in the movie.
You're forgetting Bucky spent time in Wakanda, and knew Shuri. Okoye rescued Everett Ross (Martin Freeman) at the end of that, who Valentina had flat out told him her wild and dangerous ambitions before she had him arrested. So Ross likely told Shuri this, and Shuri informed Bucky as he was someone in the U.S. she likely trusts. But the movie doesn't need to kill the pacing to explain all that. I mean, do we need a backstory for why Congressman Gary is also investigating Val? No, who gives a fuck.
Also, so they would have ran away if Bucky hadn't captured them? Yes, and? You're just saying things the movie didn't even claim wasn't the case. What is your point? You might as well say, "if Bilbo didn't find the One Ring, he probably would have gotten spotted and then eaten by Smaug." Cool, yes, and? And?
-okay, you now officially are kidding me, right? The Void comes out of nowhere?
Oh yes, sure……except you know:
Yelena briefly enters the Void when she was lying down next to Bob
Walker briefly enters the Void when he and Bob touch
Valentina briefly enters the Void when she and Bob touch
But aside from all THAT, the Void really was a totally random element that just came out of nowhere in the final act.
-so you admit you were wrong. Cool.
-Bucky's goal is to stop Valentina from succeeding in her dangerous ambitions. He does, even though she's not turned in, she's now forced to follow the lead of the New Avengers who won't entertain her wilder ambitions
Ghost repeatedly denies caring or needing the aid or care of others. She is just as happy in the climax when people cheer the team after saving them from falling debris, and she goes to help save Bob with the others.
Alexei dreamed of being a hero to the public again. He got his dream, and he got to see it happen for his daughter too.
-they would clearly be stuck permanently in the Void, like Yelena was at first seeing the killed girl loop again and again. Bob couldn't regain control on his own, it took the others supporting him and showing they care about him that allowed him to do it. How did you not figure that out?
-obtuse? Bruh, you're the one who apparently expects movies to pause every scene and display multiple paragraphs of text to fill in the most minor details and also help people like you put the pieces together because you can't follow what the film is clearly conveying
-that is ridiculous and you know it. You're the one whining, "I need to know every detail of how Sentry and the Void work!", now you're claiming everything to do with him, as well as the others becoming New Avengers which completely contrasted where they were at the start of the film, could be just summarized in a few minutes? Okay, I guess the first Cap movie wasn't necessary. "Small guy wants to be a WWII soldier, he gets serum, makes him strong, he beats bad HYDRA dude, gets frozen in ice, wakes up in modern day." Wow, it's almost like every film in existence could be called filler by your bizarre guidelines.
-it's almost like most of the Thunderbolts are, I dunno, ANTI-HEROES or something…….
Also, I love this unfounded optimism you have that Bob would be treated fairly if they did that and put EVERYTHING out there. Forgive me if I'm not so gullible, and know the Thunderbolts took that into consideration so now Bob can live safely in their HQ instead of being placed in The Raft or worse for something he himself didn't actually do as the Void is a separate entity from Bob as it's Bob's negative emotions and mental state manifesting into its own being in the same body. But good luck having people outside the Thunderbolts believe that. Because as we all know, when Banner first became the Hulk, he was treated fairly and in a just manner-
-if that's your defense of Drax, that applies to the Thunderbolts as well. And I love how you ignore my Hawkeye in Avengers 1 example……..
-that sounds terrible, having Bob be with some of them from the start of the plot once it got rolling is essential to to pay off his story. Otherwise, them all trying to save him in the Void comes off as insincere. Also, your story sounds way too rigidly structured, Christ, it reminds me of how awfully paced and structured Rebel Moon Part 1 was, just recruitment scene after recruitment scene. Why the fuck would you try to be turn Thunderbolts into THAT?
Also, Bucky the main focus AGAIN? Dude has been the antagonist of one film, the "MacGuffin" (for lack of a better word, he's the focus of a lot of the conflict) of another film (Civil War), had a small role in two Avenges films, and was the co-lead of a series. Heaven forbid we give someone else some focus in this ensemble cast.
Also, a more nuanced eye, sure, I mean aside from you missing dialogue like Walker defending himself regarding the Flagsmasher he killed, acting like the Void came out of nowhere when it was set up THREE SEPARATE TIMES prior in the film, etc. But I guess in spite of all that, you were clearly paying more attention than me.
I don't care about what makes more mass appeal. Avatar 2 and Jurassic World Dominion were the highest grossing and third highest grossing films of 2022, and both films barely had anything remotely interesting happening with their characters or story in my book.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
-again, what part of public reputation are you not getting? Walker's chance at being Cap was ruined by it regardless of whether it was justified or not. Yelena wants to be a public hero so she likewise doesn't want her past exposed. It absolutely can damage their future, Natasha had to go to a hearing after the events of the Captain America: Winter Soldier film and defend herself after exposing all of SHIELD's secrets including her past, she wasn't let off the hook automatically because she was a major hero in Avengers 1 and Winter Solider.
-okay, you know claiming Valentina is in an even stronger position now is false as you were defending her a few weeks back regarding her wanting to obtain vibranium so she can put all other countries under the thumb of the U.S. Now, she can't do that or create super-powered individuals loyal to her. All her plans are on ice, and now she has to follow the lead of the New Avengers who have no reason to indulge in her wild ambitions. Bucky, and none of them, work for her, SHE works for THEM. She is their bitch, in case the ending of the film didn't make that clear despite Yelena making it abundantly clear.
I have no idea how you're comparing Ross to Val. Ross could still pose a danger if he lost control so he saw the need to be locked up in the Raft. Val has no superpowers and also no longer any control over anyone or anything. You're comparing apples and oranges.
-the film has a conflict (Val is trying to kill us, so let's stop her from doing that. Oh no, she made Bob lose control, we have to save him!) and it resolves said conflict. The characters have personal goals and they accomplish them. That is a film.
-
She wants the US to have power and for her to be the one wielding and controlling as much of that power as much as she can. Her motivation in Wakanda Forever and this film is consistent.
All the other stuff you're asking for the movie to bore us with every little minor detail, come on man. No rational person needs all these minor details. In other words:
I already addressed the kill switch thing in an earlier response to you. This is taking long enough, please do not make me repeat myself.
-Valentina is responsible for setting things up to the Void being unleashed though. She and her forces are the threat to the protagonists for the vast majority of the film. Even the Void only happens because of her actions. She is the true villain of the film.
-if you watched the movie, why are you getting these details wrong. Yelena didn't want "out", she wanted Valentine to put her on missions for the public to see, to actually be recognized as a hero. She flat out tells Valentine this over the phone early on in the movie.
You're forgetting Bucky spent time in Wakanda, and knew Shuri. Okoye rescued Everett Ross (Martin Freeman) at the end of that, who Valentina had flat out told him her wild and dangerous ambitions before she had him arrested. So Ross likely told Shuri this, and Shuri informed Bucky as he was someone in the U.S. she likely trusts. But the movie doesn't need to kill the pacing to explain all that. I mean, do we need a backstory for why Congressman Gary is also investigating Val? No, who gives a fuck.
Also, so they would have ran away if Bucky hadn't captured them? Yes, and? You're just saying things the movie didn't even claim wasn't the case. What is your point? You might as well say, "if Bilbo didn't find the One Ring, he probably would have gotten spotted and then eaten by Smaug." Cool, yes, and? And?
-okay, you now officially are kidding me, right? The Void comes out of nowhere?
Oh yes, sure……except you know:
Yelena briefly enters the Void when she was lying down next to Bob
Walker briefly enters the Void when he and Bob touch
Valentina briefly enters the Void when she and Bob touch
But aside from all THAT, the Void really was a totally random element that just came out of nowhere in the final act.
-so you admit you were wrong. Cool.
-Bucky's goal is to stop Valentina from succeeding in her dangerous ambitions. He does, even though she's not turned in, she's now forced to follow the lead of the New Avengers who won't entertain her wilder ambitions
Ghost repeatedly denies caring or needing the aid or care of others. She is just as happy in the climax when people cheer the team after saving them from falling debris, and she goes to help save Bob with the others.
Alexei dreamed of being a hero to the public again. He got his dream, and he got to see it happen for his daughter too.
-they would clearly be stuck permanently in the Void, like Yelena was at first seeing the killed girl loop again and again. Bob couldn't regain control on his own, it took the others supporting him and showing they care about him that allowed him to do it. How did you not figure that out?
-obtuse? Bruh, you're the one who apparently expects movies to pause every scene and display multiple paragraphs of text to fill in the most minor details and also help people like you put the pieces together because you can't follow what the film is clearly conveying
-that is ridiculous and you know it. You're the one whining, "I need to know every detail of how Sentry and the Void work!", now you're claiming everything to do with him, as well as the others becoming New Avengers which completely contrasted where they were at the start of the film, could be just summarized in a few minutes? Okay, I guess the first Cap movie wasn't necessary. "Small guy wants to be a WWII soldier, he gets serum, makes him strong, he beats bad HYDRA dude, gets frozen in ice, wakes up in modern day." Wow, it's almost like every film in existence could be called filler by your bizarre guidelines.
-it's almost like most of the Thunderbolts are, I dunno, ANTI-HEROES or something…….
Also, I love this unfounded optimism you have that Bob would be treated fairly if they did that and put EVERYTHING out there. Forgive me if I'm not so gullible, and know the Thunderbolts took that into consideration so now Bob can live safely in their HQ instead of being placed in The Raft or worse for something he himself didn't actually do as the Void is a separate entity from Bob as it's Bob's negative emotions and mental state manifesting into its own being in the same body. But good luck having people outside the Thunderbolts believe that. Because as we all know, when Banner first became the Hulk, he was treated fairly and in a just manner-
-if that's your defense of Drax, that applies to the Thunderbolts as well. And I love how you ignore my Hawkeye in Avengers 1 example……..
-that sounds terrible, having Bob be with some of them from the start of the plot once it got rolling is essential to to pay off his story. Otherwise, them all trying to save him in the Void comes off as insincere. Also, your story sounds way too rigidly structured, Christ, it reminds me of how awfully paced and structured Rebel Moon Part 1 was, just recruitment scene after recruitment scene. Why the fuck would you try to be turn Thunderbolts into THAT?
Also, Bucky the main focus AGAIN? Dude has been the antagonist of one film, the "MacGuffin" (for lack of a better word, he's the focus of a lot of the conflict) of another film (Civil War), had a small role in two Avenges films, and was the co-lead of a series. Heaven forbid we give someone else some focus in this ensemble cast.
Also, a more nuanced eye, sure, I mean aside from you missing dialogue like Walker defending himself regarding the Flagsmasher he killed, acting like the Void came out of nowhere when it was set up THREE SEPARATE TIMES prior in the film, etc. But I guess in spite of all that, you were clearly paying more attention than me.
I don't care about what makes more mass appeal. Avatar 2 and Jurassic World Dominion were the highest grossing and third highest grossing films of 2022, and both films barely had anything remotely interesting happening with their characters or story in my book.
Doom85
Member
We have people debating with essay length material........all over an awesome Marvel film
Fair enough.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
Reizo Ryuu
Member
yeah y'all are getting a bit silly
Doom85
Member
I would kiss jason, but you see, the Thunderbolts movie did not have a scene where Yelena and Ghost kissed intensely, alas, the only actual shortcoming of the film, and jason has failed to bring this up despite his paragraphs of complaints about the film. Such an omission on his part I cannot forgive.
So jason and I will continue to be platonic nerd frenemies, and I'll have to settle for my Florence/Hannah fantasies…..
TheUnicornGuy
Gold Member
I was also disappointed in the lack of a steamy shower scene featuring the two of them. Would have been a great post post credits scene.I would kiss jason, but you see, the Thunderbolts movie did not have a scene where Yelena and Ghost kissed intensely, alas, the only actual shortcoming of the film, and jason has failed to bring this up despite his paragraphs of complaints about the film. Such an omission on his part I cannot forgive.
So jason and I will continue to be platonic nerd frenemies, and I'll have to settle for my Florence/Hannah fantasies…..
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
Good movie. Really loved Bob and his acting. Need more Bucky presence tho.
Doom85
Member
Yeah, after the post credits scene of Alexei at the grocery store, he should have returned to base and accidentally walked in on them in the shower:
Yelena: DAD!!! Don't you knock?!
Alexei: Sorry, I thought Bob was only one here, and he is sleeping on couch! I'll go! Sorry! (leaves bathroom area and closes door)
Yelena: Ugh.
Alexei (yelling through door): And just know, sweetie, I totally support you! You two make great couple, people will love it!
Yelena: OKAY, Dad! Can you go now?!
Alexei: Hey, I just come from grocery store, I make you wonderful dinner for a first date night together. Don't worry, Bob and I can order take out and eat it in mission room; you two have total privacy!
Yelena: Oh god help me!
On this we can ABSOULTELY agree!
Even if its just shaking hands or whatever kid friendly subtext marvel can slip by, they really need code for "we banging" in these things.
ResilientBanana
Member
Disney really doesn't put the gay where it needs to be, do they?
LimanimaPT
Member
The strong female character is still a thing? People are still going to theatres to watch this?
Reizo Ryuu
Member
GateofD
Member
It's okay, Yelena gets beat up a lot, they keep finding excuses to make ghost's ability useless, and they killed the other female. Maybe that's why it got good ratings.
scoobidoo112
Member
The whole movie is centered around Yelena being depressed, borderline suicidal, and wrecked with guilt. She loses, she gives up, and she breaks down in tears.
Pretty much the opposite of the Mary Sue / Strong Female Character trope.
Which is why it works for me, because the characters feel like actual human beings.
My problem with Yelena is that she has no agency of her own. Why is she a stooge for Val in the first place? Why are ANY of them? They all have incredible skills/powers, seems like they could excel in multiple areas far from Val's sphere of influence. They don't feel like fleshed out deep characters, just paper thin checkmarks. Bucky especially should be a deeply troubled, but ultimately optimistic character that you could base a lot of good stories and an awesome team around, but marvel just seems determined to sideline that character. Maybe Sebastian Stan is hard to work with so he's pushed to just bit parts?
This is a larger comic book trope where these enhanced individuals seem to have little to no ability to profit in the working world (other than tech billionaire, I suppose), thus they have no choice but to be relentless crime fighters.
This is a larger comic book trope where these enhanced individuals seem to have little to no ability to profit in the working world (other than tech billionaire, I suppose), thus they have no choice but to be relentless crime fighters.
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
Out of all garbage female leads that were force pushed, Yelena is actually legit an amazing character. You should watch the movie. Her relationship with her dad and Bob is really great. Yelena >>>>> Black Widow.
For sure, as much as a Widow character is interesting, Yelena is more than just eye candy. I'm just not sure a 5'1" stocky girl is quite the best representation of her prowess, though Pugh can sell the emotion well.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Yelena is well written, well acted, and has cool action scenes.