Reizo Ryuu
Member
the whole premise of this discussion is retarded, many posters on gaf have wildly varying definitions of the word "woke", and some of them see the woke boogeyman everywhere.
Hey well look if you enjoy this behaviour then more power to you.Me and Deaf wondering how the hell expressing a mild level of annoyance and snark to one individual could have triggered a completely separate individual this much:
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Good to know! Hard to beat a good one-syllable insult when it comes to flexibility!I mean i appreciate that you are trying to be a level-headed with this. A chop is a south African term for someone acting a bit silly, it's not endearing but it's also not a derogatory term. If i dropped a pot of food in front of everyone they'd call me a chop and i'd call myself a chop.
But is this not just proving my point?
all of this because simply just responding to another poster with decency was apparently impossible to do, because they are on a side of a culture war and the poster is on the other.
Regarding the end credits scene:
I like these new Avengers waaaaay more than Sam's, which I assume will include Shang Chi, She Hulk, and Captain Marvel (I didnt see her new movie but I assume she is alive and still has her powers).
I guess I would add in America Chavez since apparently she has been on the Thunderbolt roster before, but they're likely saving her for a gorl powah teamup with Kate Bishop & Ms. Marvel
At any rate I am happy we will see these dorks again in Doomsday. Some are inevitably gonna get killed off but this team had a good movie and a half run![]()
Hey well look if you enjoy this behaviour then more power to you.
I still wanna ask what the real issue is and is everything ok, but that's probably a bit bigger than a marvel thread on gaf...
just if you need to talk to someone please make sure you do... that's all I'll say
There is no one better than just general cussing then south africans, we get inventive. the general aggression that comes from an afrikaan Poes or Fok is just a thing of beauty.Good to know! Hard to beat a good one-syllable insult when it comes to flexibility!
I think that others responses perhaps need to be put in the context of we've now had years of "is it woke?" and that being a big focus for some. Would it have been better if it was just ignored? Sure. When I saw someone asking about the "woke rating" I just moved on because, as I said, I'd really I'm not interested in engaging with that kind of thing. But others might decide to push back because they're sick of those years of it, rather than this being a response to a one-off thing.
But now we're talking about talking about wokeness. So, for myself at least, I'm going to draw a line under it here and hope things can get back onto actually discussing the film. I've got to head out to meet up with some friends anyway. Have a good one.
If you thought i was gaslighting and trying to ruin your mood then that says a lot. Treating others with decency ruins your moodI'm doing great, this whole conversation I was laughing at your drama while I was simultaneously vibing doing my Honkai Star Rail dailies while my Spotify plays through, hitting me with chill The Weeknd songs and then moving on to Rihanna and Sabrina Carpenter singing naughty lyrics into my ears.
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TMI on that last part? Well, too bad, after all you're the one who freaks out at "policing" what others say here. So you reap what you sow.
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Anyway, despite your obvious and weak attempt at gaslighting me, I'm doing just fine. Going to see a promising movie tonight, and your futile attempt to ruin my mood is all too easy to parry.
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Fairly low. Walker is the butt of A LOT of jokes and is fairly consistently shit on by Yelena and Ghost but he is a bit of a buffoon character anyway (with Red Guardian being pure slapstick) so you can sorta look past it. In actual combat the actual powered men hold their own and Yelena actually gets beat by them all (sorta). But it's Yelenas film so she gets all the attention. This isn't a proper ensemble film by any stretch, so every other character is sacrificed for her (limited) character development.What is the woke rating for this movie?
It's 100% filler. About all it really does is explain the limitations/liabilities of Sentry. Otherwise everything else could have been explained in an intro montage for a film where they actually do something. Sure, you get to know the character a bit but they end up about a quarter step away from where they start. New Avengers is at odds with Sam's Avengers (whoever they are). Why? Valentina has apparently limitless authority, funding, and immunity from reproach...why exactly? The New Avengers is a team with half its members being straight outta Russia, another responsible for almost (figuratively) nuking New York, another I guess has a Green Card, and the last one is straight up recruited from the enemy previously responsible for almost destroying America. It's ludicrous, but that's comics.This isn't a filler film. This is setting up major pieces for the next event film.
In fact all 3 of the movies this year are doing this.
That's interesting. I found Bucky to be nearly useless in the movie. I thought ghost was better as she was at least a bit different.I really liked it. Saw it with my big brother and we both enjoyed it.
Great stuff:
-Bob, Yelena, Bucky, US Agent, fight scenes, story, old Stark tower, suspense
Ok stuff:
-Val, Ghost, Taskmaster, Val's assistant Mel
You're the ONLY one in here talking about it. No one brought it up (post release) until you. That should tell you something.
Nothing wrong asking how much of wokeness the movie tries to push. I have not seen it myself so I want to hear from gaffers here how much of it is present in the plot. I even avoid reading the reviews in case its legitimately good.
I don't want to see Quantumania level of trash agenda with garbage writing.
That's interesting. I found Bucky to be nearly useless in the movie. I thought ghost was better as she was at least a bit different.
Walker was really good actually and Red Guardian was great in nearly every scene. Florence Pugh was good too.
They stayed relatively close to the Sentry and Void stories from the past which I liked too.
That's true, they were pretty good with all of that.Bucky arm is the jobber, Winter Soldier debuted as a big heel threat, duo'd down ironman with steve in civil war, and now the only avenger left, he's there to make others look good. Spider-man, the wakanda speargirls, Sentry.
I liked how appropriately powered they had Yelena, the weakest one just mainly cause she's the only one that isn't a super soldier really, or an ability like ghost. she probably got beat up the most often.
So you could have seen OTHER POSTS from posters who despise "woke", which quite a few saw it and posted, and their absence of saying "this is woke" should have told you all you needed to know.
You just wanted to turn this thread into unnecessary culture war crap.
And I fell for the bait.
Wait so a woman saying something mean to a male character goes on the woke meter? Are we serious?Fairly low. Walker is the butt of A LOT of jokes.
It's 100% filler. About all it really does is explain the limitations/liabilities of Sentry. Otherwise everything else could have been explained in an intro montage for a film where they actually do something. Sure, you get to know the character a bit but they end up about a quarter step away from where they start. New Avengers is at odds with Sam's Avengers (whoever they are).
It's an interesting character piece and maybe in hindsight a few years from now there would have been lots of foreshadowing to raise it up, but as it is, its about as pointless as Captain Marvel in actually feeding the grand Marvel narrative.
No, but every guy being a buffoon and every woman doing a synchronized eye roll is. Sacrificing all your well experienced and powered male heroes at the altar of making Yelena and Ghost seem more capable is cringe at least, woke at worst. But this is yelenas film, so reducing all the other characters to prop her up is kinda expected.Wait so a woman saying something mean to a male character goes on the woke meter? Are we serious?
At the beginning of this movie all of these individuals are rogue agents doing hit jobs for an evil nick fury in heels. By the end of it they are the designated avengers team. And have one of the strongest characters in the verse on their ranks.
how exactly are you doing to make that make sense in an intro reel? I mean you're using the term "filler" VERY liberally here. Even the first avengers team in the MCU needed less set up than this post their individual solo films.
She is TOTALLY untouchable. Somehow she remains Director of the CIA, has the authority to appoint a team, largely of non US citizens most likely, to then defend American soil, which is exactly what the CIA CAN NOT do. The Avengers should be an FBI asset if anything, maybe DHS, not some sort of military or cia team. All after gross negligence and rampant criminal activity involving HUNDREDS of people, many of whom where brutally slaughtered, all out in the open with her in attendance such that even the most BASIC level of investigative surveillance could have found it all out. Its just another example of making decidedly mid-level heroes seem capable only because their enemies are astoundingly inept yet ahead of the even more incompetent "authorities".Also, val wasn't untouchable. This entire movie happens because she was so desperate to destroy all evidence of her actions that she went all of her agents into a room together and they ended up teaming up.
My point is that all of the 'team building' that occurs in Thunderbolts* could occur in 5 minutes of whatever movie they are supposed to be in next, and very little would have been lost.Csptain marvel was an origin/introduction story.
All of these characters already have had those. Its easy to forget but when the first avengers came out most of the roster had maybe 90 minutes of screen time up to that point save for iron man. Hawkeye had 2 minutes in thor, black widow was in iron man 2 for like a half hour and the rest had one movie.
Yelena has had more than that, red guardian has about 1 movie worth, ava has about 1 movie worth, john walker has a major role in a TV show and bucky night have the most screen time in the entire mcu at this point
The movie doesn't do either lmao. Yelena and ghost are two snarky mercenaries, including to each other.No, but every guy being a buffoon and every woman doing a synchronized eye roll is.
This group of misfits is basically the A-team. The ENTIRE backstory of the a-team is encapsulated in their 90 second intro. Same with these guys. Hell, the only one who isn't just a "good puncher" is ghost and they ignored her almost completely.
She is TOTALLY untouchable. Somehow she remains Director of the CIA, has the authority to appoint a team, largely of non US citizens most likely, to then defend American soil, which is exactly what the CIA CAN NOT do. The Avengers should be an FBI asset if anything, maybe DHS, not some sort of military or cia team. All after gross negligence and rampant criminal activity involving HUNDREDS of people, many of whom where brutally slaughtered, all out in the open with her in attendance such that even the most BASIC level of investigative surveillance could have found it all out.
My point is that all of the 'team building' that occurs in Thunderbolts* could occur in 5 minutes of whatever movie they are supposed to be in next, and very little would have been lost.
And this doesn't even get into how Sentry, who presumably put SEVERAL MILLION POEPLE (whatever the daytime habitation of lower manhattan is) into an extreme trauma reliving experience for....minutes? Hours? Including Spiderman, Daredevil, and whomever else hangs out there, and then get a "oh, my bad" total forgiveness and is then allowed to just hang out. What did the "killswitch" even do to him, can it release Void again, who is in charge of helping him direct his powers, etc.
No doubt we are gonna have to endure a lot of forced drama when the New Avengers meet up with The Avengers to fill time in Doomsday because these films seem incapable of being plot driven anymore and are just scenes strung together to get us to pre-determined set piece battle after set piece battle.
No, but every guy being a buffoon and every woman doing a synchronized eye roll is. Sacrificing all your well experienced and powered male heroes at the altar of making Yelena and Ghost seem more capable is cringe at least, woke at worst. But this is yelenas film, so reducing all the other characters to prop her up is kinda expected.
She is TOTALLY untouchable. Somehow she remains Director of the CIA, has the authority to appoint a team, largely of non US citizens most likely, to then defend American soil, which is exactly what the CIA CAN NOT do. The Avengers should be an FBI asset if anything, maybe DHS, not some sort of military or cia team. All after gross negligence and rampant criminal activity involving HUNDREDS of people, many of whom where brutally slaughtered, all out in the open with her in attendance such that even the most BASIC level of investigative surveillance could have found it all out. Its just another example of making decidedly mid-level heroes seem capable only because their enemies are astoundingly inept yet ahead of the even more incompetent "authorities".
My point is that all of the 'team building' that occurs in Thunderbolts* could occur in 5 minutes of whatever movie they are supposed to be in next, and very little would have been lost.
And this doesn't even get into how Sentry, who presumably put SEVERAL MILLION POEPLE (whatever the daytime habitation of lower manhattan is) into an extreme trauma reliving experience for....minutes? Hours? Including Spiderman, Daredevil, and whomever else hangs out there, and then get a "oh, my bad" total forgiveness and is then allowed to just hang out. What did the "killswitch" even do to him, can it release Void again, who is in charge of helping him direct his powers, etc.
Or the emerging psychic powers of Ghost, Red Guardian, and Bucky for finding people in the middle of crowds or absolute NOWHERE, seemingly by magic![]()
No doubt we are gonna have to endure a lot of forced drama when the New Avengers meet up with The Avengers to fill time in Doomsday because these films seem incapable of being plot driven anymore and are just scenes strung together to get us to pre-determined set piece battle after set piece battle.
It's because he seemed to finally accept who he is as a flawed person, rather than trying to pretend to be someone better while acting pompous about it. He also let his guard down enough again to be able to trust other people and team up with them.I'm really surprised at how positively Walker is getting received this time around. I thought he was the best thing about FatWS but a lot of people sided with Sam back then. Now I see the same people claiming that he's their Captain America.
Now I see the same people claiming that he's their Captain America.
In their world, especially in New York, this stuff would be normal. I like that the live action movies finally started showing this because the cartoons were already far beyond the point of bystanders seeing people in costumed gear and going 'eh, another day another hero showing upMovie was kind of okay. I don't think Yelena is the right character to focus on but they do what they do. One thing I hated in this movie was near the end they crash the vehicle in the building and are fighting with the guards etc. before Val tells them to come up. During all this the public out in the street was even a little bit curious about all this. They were all just going their own merry way as if everything was normal. A little later when they all escape and come back out to the street and are discussing (before void appears), the public yet again ignores the bunch of weirdly dressed group of people including one with a metal arm who should now be well known as Winter Soldier/Bucky by everyone who also happens to be a congressman now.
In their world, especially in New York, this stuff would be normal. I like that the live action movies finally started showing this because the cartoons were already far beyond the point of bystanders seeing people in costumed gear and going 'eh, another day another hero showing up'.
PPlus what are you going to do? I always liked that in the original Incredible Hulk TV show, no-one really went crazy when the Hulk ran down the street. Because you wouldn't, you would be wary and maybe back off a little, but a giant green man runs down the street you aren't just going to lose it and start screamimg hysterically.In their world, especially in New York, this stuff would be normal. I like that the live action movies finally started showing this because the cartoons were already far beyond the point of bystanders seeing people in costumed gear and going 'eh, another day another hero showing up'.
Do you truly think that these people are not extras and that they weren't directed to do exactly what they did? The only part I can agree with you on is anyone who was near the front of that building when they started fighting in the lobby. Otherwise the people across the street/down the street were reasonably seeing Bucky and a guy dressed like a dollar store Captain America and thought 'oh...another hero fight' and kept walking.Its just that director didn't want to spend effort and time. At least people would want to observe any crash/fighting going on near them so that they can take action for their safety.
True they do, but not in the gasping 'oh my god it's a hero!' way likeThe people on the street actually do look at them when they are arguing iirc.
Kind of a cute idea. But I'm surprised they're doing it this early
I figured it was real and that's what they're getting branded as in-universe. The post-credits scene also seemed to confirm that's the case.So it's real, I thought it was meant more as a joke in the Movie.
Do you truly think that these people are not extras and that they weren't directed to do exactly what they did? The only part I can agree with you on is anyone who was near the front of that building when they started fighting in the lobby. Otherwise the people across the street/down the street were reasonably seeing Bucky and a guy dressed like a dollar store Captain America and thought 'oh...another hero fight' and kept walking.
There have literally been scenes in past Marvel movies where a hero enters a bar, store, or some random area and they will say something along the lines of 'yea...I know who you are...so?' I understand some of them even getting annoyed at heroes showing up. And keep in mind, this is New York.
True they do, but not in the gasping 'oh my god it's a hero!' way likeDragon_Rocks is wanting them to do, which is something I could see them doing 15 years ago when Iron Man first stepped onto the scene.
Again, the cartoons have already reached this point. This is one of those little reasons why I like that Marvel and D.C. have their differences. Marvel heroes are treated like dudes causing a ruckus. D.C. Heroes are instead treated like gods among men.
I'm not fully defending it. I'm agreeing you halfway that the people who were actually next to the building should have reacted with more urgency. I simply disagree with the people further away from the incident needing to act with more urgency and I also disagree that people in this Marvel universe, in New York of all places, would suddenly stop everything they're doing if an incident occurs a decent distance away from them.Yeah. Any normal person would be like "Oh another crash and super hero fight in the avengers tower. I will be totally fine and not in any kind of danger so let me just causally mind my business without taking any note or action for my safety."
Not sure why you are trying to justify and defend it when clearly it is a poorly directed sequence that breaks immersion. The Dark knight returns also had the same issue with the bank heist in the beginning.
Thread seems a bit long and can't be bothered wading through all that - so I was just wondering - is the movie woke?
/s
Movie was kind of okay. I don't think Yelena is the right character to focus on but they do what they do. One thing I hated in this movie was near the end they crash the vehicle in the building and are fighting with the guards etc. before Val tells them to come up. During all this the public out in the street was even a little bit curious about all this. They were all just going their own merry way as if everything was normal. A little later when they all escape and come back out to the street and are discussing (before void appears), the public yet again ignores the bunch of weirdly dressed group of people including one with a metal arm who should now be well known as Winter Soldier/Bucky by everyone who also happens to be a congressman now.
Kind of a cute idea. But I'm surprised they're doing it this early
Also I can't believe they're still fumbling John Walker's story, years after the show. They said he "murdered an innocent man"? That "innocent man" was a terrorist that murdered his partner, wtf are they talking about? And then later in the movie they're nonchalantly blowing up jeeps filled with men that theoretically match the "innocence" of the aforementioned terrorist, with no remorse. Like I said: very sloppy.
6/10
THe whole film makes very little sense if you dwell on it, but that's par for the course for all of these films.Movie was alright. Certainly a step up from the last few MCU movies, but there were moments that were distractingly sloppy. Best part of the movie is when they just deleted the horrible MCU Taskmaster (probably the worst adaptation of a comic book character to date), but I found it weird how the other members don't dwell on the fact that Girl From Ant-Man 2 just straight up murdered one of them. Can't believe I'm saying this but that's something that Ayer's Suicide Squad actually did better: Waller was the first to kill someone on the team, not one of their own team members. It should have fomented distrust but it's immediately thrown out the window and she suddenly grows a conscience a few minutes later...
Also I can't believe they're still fumbling John Walker's story, years after the show. They said he "murdered an innocent man"? That "innocent man" was a terrorist that murdered his partner, wtf are they talking about? And then later in the movie they're nonchalantly blowing up jeeps filled with men that theoretically match the "innocence" of the aforementioned terrorist, with no remorse. Like I said: very sloppy.
6/10
Movie was alright. Certainly a step up from the last few MCU movies, but there were moments that were distractingly sloppy. Best part of the movie is when they just deleted the horrible MCU Taskmaster (probably the worst adaptation of a comic book character to date), but I found it weird how the other members don't dwell on the fact that Girl From Ant-Man 2 just straight up murdered one of them. Can't believe I'm saying this but that's something that Ayer's Suicide Squad actually did better: Waller was the first to kill someone on the team, not one of their own team members. It should have fomented distrust but it's immediately thrown out the window and she suddenly grows a conscience a few minutes later...
Also I can't believe they're still fumbling John Walker's story, years after the show. They said he "murdered an innocent man"? That "innocent man" was a terrorist that murdered his partner, wtf are they talking about? And then later in the movie they're nonchalantly blowing up jeeps filled with men that theoretically match the "innocence" of the aforementioned terrorist, with no remorse. Like I said: very sloppy.
6/10