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[Anth0ny]

I wonder if people will start exposing Phoenix by snapping her in (on ANY hit you get)/crossing her up on entry like Justin did at NCR. He made her look fucking free, and that was grand finals.

It looks like only Wolverine can do it effectively, though. So Wolvie would own S tier all by himself =)

Although there's not going to be any majors til Evo... so I guess we'll find out then.

 

[smurfx]

just had a pretty good session with solarpowered. i definitely needed to match up against some more morrigans. i got beat badly by morrigan users one some outing on ranked a few days ago. sorry i would of stayed more but i'm going to work out in a bit. plus my monitor looked kinda weird. don't know if its because i haven't played marvel in a couple of days but it seemed like i had 120hz enabled or something on my monitor. i don't have that feature.

 

[Neki]

just had a pretty good session with solarpowered. i definitely needed to match up against some more morrigans. i got beat badly by morrigan users one some outing on ranked a few days ago. sorry i would of stayed more but i'm going to work out in a bit. plus my monitor looked kinda weird. don't know if its because i haven't played marvel in a couple of days but it seemed like i had 120hz enabled or something on my monitor. i don't have that feature.

get blown up more.

 

[smurfx]

get blown up more.

blown up by who?

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

I think people need to start snapping in more, in general. As many assist get caught in the wild, you should just spend the meter and snap them in so they won't gain any more of their health back. If you don't kill them, cool. You did just fuck with the dynamics of your opponents team, and they won't spam that shit as freely as before.

Granted, if you kill a character with a TOD, then you do get a mixup on the character coming in anyhow...so there is that.

 

[SolarPowered]

I fought a few crazy good people online when it wasn't lagging and it makes me even more depressed about Hsien-Ko. Hulk can kill Hsien-Ko with a single combo if he touches you and has wesker as his anchor. It is fucking ridiculous to me that any character can finish her off in a SINGLE combo.

I also fought this pussy high lord who used Dr. Doom, Sentinel and Arthur. All I could do was try to get in because it is constant hidden missiles and spears. I'm pretty sure I never got caught in a combo that did more than ten hits. I beat him once and he beat me once, but the whole thing is just fucking stupid if you ask me.

Assists have their place and all, but this shit is just ridiculous. I see the skill in using an assist to connect crazy combos, I see the skill in using the assist to enable lockdowns but I can't wrap my head around assists that take no particular skill to use.

fucking hell

just had a pretty good session with solarpowered. i definitely needed to match up against some more morrigans. i got beat badly by morrigan users one some outing on ranked a few days ago. sorry i would of stayed more but i'm going to work out in a bit. plus my monitor looked kinda weird. don't know if its because i haven't played marvel in a couple of days but it seemed like i had 120hz enabled or something on my monitor. i don't have that feature.

​

That shit was fucking horrible, man. I spent the whole fucking night playing against gustav flame and shit with lag all over the place. I felt I was going to do just fine against you and the first match was good stuff. It fucking lagged all over the place on the second match and I just couldn't deal with it anymore. I tried to play, but I just couldn't will myself to play to win.

Trying to play with a team that mostly requires close combat is a fucking death sentence against Haggar, tron and tasky if lag comes into the mix.

sigh...

Edit: My highlight of the night must've been the three fights against a fifth lord who used Phoenix. The little douche couldn't even take out a single character and his Phoenix was a joke with his pew pew pew jabs lol.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

I think people need to start snapping in more, in general. As many assist get caught in the wild, you should just spend the meter and snap them in so they won't gain any more of their health back. If you don't kill them, cool. You did just fuck with the dynamics of your opponents team, and they won't spam that shit as freely as before.

Granted, if you kill a character with a TOD, then you do get a mixup on the character coming in anyhow...so there is that.

One thing I want to get in the habit of doing is KOing the opponent's point character with an assist 2 snapback on teams that are using a dedicated assist character in the 3rd slot. The snapback will still work and will force in the opponent's 3rd character after the KO instead of the 2nd.

 

[SolarPowered]

You really went all out, Dahbomb. I never expected Amateratsu to become so popular. I knew her hitbox was good, but her meteoric rise has been amazing.

Can't wait to see you part two!

 

[smurfx]

​

That shit was fucking horrible, man. I spent the whole fucking night playing against gustav flame and shit with lag all over the place. I felt I was going to do just fine against you and the first match was good stuff. It fucking lagged all over the place on the second match and I just couldn't deal with it anymore. I tried to play, but I just couldn't will myself to play to win.

Trying to play with a team that mostly requires close combat is a fucking death sentence against Haggar, tron and tasky if lag comes into the mix.

sigh...

Edit: My highlight of the night must've been the three fights against a fifth lord who used Phoenix. The little douche couldn't even take out a single character and his Phoenix was a joke with his pew pew pew jabs lol.

was that your lag or mine? also i managed to get you without haggars help a bunch of times. i fought this one 3rd lord before fighting you that was the worst phoenix player ever. in fact his whole team was absolutely horrible. it must of been a new team or something because i refuse to believe a 3rd lord could be so free. anyways we should play again solar and hopefully it won't be as laggy.

 

[SolarPowered]

Trish Bnb's only doing 600k make me sad. stupid Wolverine. D:

At least she does more damage and has an actual projectile. Hsien-Ko is fucking useless when it comes to dealing damage and no one on my team has a standard projectile to fall back on..

Shit, I think Ammy is the only character on my team with a BnB that can hit 600k+.

was that your lag or mine? also i managed to get you without haggars help a bunch of times. i fought this one 3rd lord before fighting you that was the worst phoenix player ever. in fact his whole team was absolutely horrible. it must of been a new team or something because i refuse to believe a 3rd lord could be so free. anyways we should play again solar and hopefully it won't be as laggy.

It could be anyone's, really. I had a few idiots who lagged on me, but most of my matches were fine. Every other match besides the second one was also alright. Just try not to send me an invite if we are only going to play like five matches because that is no good either.

Send one if it is going to be a long session.

 

[smurfx]

At least she does more damage and has an actual projectile. Hsien-Ko is fucking useless when it comes to dealing damage and no one on my team has a standard projectile to fall back on..

Shit, I think Ammy is the only character on my team with a BnB that can hit 600k+.

It could be anyone's, really. I had a few idiots who lagged on me, but most of my matches were fine. Every other match besides the second one was also alright. Just try not to send me an invite if we are only going to play like five matches because that is no good either.

Send one if it is going to be a long session.

alright next time we go to first to 10.

 

[Ogrekiller]

Top 3 all Majors:

Winter Brawl:

1. EG.Justin Wong (She-Hulk, Amaterasu, Tron Bonne | Wolverine, Storm, Akuma)
2. RyRy (Magneto, Dormammu/Haggar, Sentinel | Wesker, Akuma, Wolverine)
3. Josh Wong (Hulk, Sentinel, Phoenix | Viewtiful Joe, Sentinel, Taskmaster)

Final Round:

1. Combofiend (She-Hulk, Taskmaster, Spencer)
2. EG.Justin Wong (She-Hulk, Amaterasu, Tron Bonne)
3. Marn (Magneto, Zero, Sentinel)

PowerUp:

1. fLoE (She-Hulk, Dante, Dormammu)
2. UVG|Noel Brown (Wolverine, Wesker, Akuma)
3. EG|Justin Wong (Wolverine, Storm, Akuma)

UFGT:

1. EG|Justin Wong (She-Hulk, Wolverine, Akuma)
2. Rex0r (Magneto, Wolverine, Sentinel)
3. KeraHime~<3 (Tron Bonne, Dante, Sentinel)

MATVIII:

1- Akumamatata (Amaterats, Akuma, Phoenix)
2- EMP_Jago (Wesker, Dante, Trish)
3- Mr Trite (Wolverine, Taskmaster, Akuma)

CEO:

1. TTC|Tokido (Wolverine, Sentinel, Phoenix)
2. EG|Justin Wong (She-Hulk, Wolverine, Akuma)
3. LB|NYChrisG (Amaterasu, Ryu, Wesker)

ReveLAtions:

1. Viscant (Wesker, Iron Man, Phoenix)
2. Filipino Champ (Dormammu, Magneto, Phoenix)
3. Clakey D (Magneto, Wolverine, Tron)

NCR:

1. EG|Justin Wong (She-Hulk, Wolverine, Akuma)
2. Tinh (Taskmaster, Magneto, Phoenix)
3. fLoE (She-Hulk, Wolverine, Akuma)

Shadaloo Showdown:

1. MCZ|Tokido (Wolverine, Sentinel, Phoenix)
2. MCZ|Mago (Amaterasu, Magneto, Sentinel)
3. Tom (Wolverine, Sentinel, Phoenix)

ECT:

1. LB|ChrisGNY (Wesker, Amaterasu, Ryu)
2. RyRy (Zero, Magneto, Akuma)
3. Josh Wong (Dante, Magneto, Wesker)

 

[mr. puppy]

MVC3 USA MAJORS

stuff

wow really really nice writeup, i didn't realize how much the game has changeed recently.

 

[Neki]

who goes well with Ammy and Trish? I'm thinking WESKER.

also, how do you handle the case of characters winning majors if they only appear in the finals, i.e, a specific team change for the grand finals (CEO).

 

[Karsticles]

I read the entire thing DahBomb. Great post. If you have a GameFAQs and/or SRK account, I think they would enjoy reading it as well.

I wonder if people will start exposing Phoenix by snapping her in (on ANY hit you get)/crossing her up on entry like Justin did at NCR. He made her look fucking free, and that was grand finals.

It was more like his opponent was really bad at blocking Wolverine. When Justin does this to Tokido, it's a fair 50/50. The guy Justin faced off against recently ate every single mix-up like Phoenix couldn't block. Not that I'm criticizing him, mind you.

It looks like only Wolverine can do it effectively, though. So Wolvie would own S tier all by himself =)

Every character in this game can make a mix-up against an incoming character. You just have to figure it out. For example, I have been working on this with Dormammu:
1) Snapback
2) Enter Flight
3) Dark Hole L on the incoming character (blocked)
4) Call Molecular Shield
5) Air dash j.S, c.L
6) If 5) is blocked, air dash j.L, c.L

Like anything else, it's not perfect, but it's hard to block reliably. Or, I can just lay a Flame Carpet and Mass Change + air dash to mess with my opponent.

When I used to play Sentinel on point, I would do the following against incoming characters (with a 95% success rate):
1) Call Dark Hole assist
2) j.H, j.S (blocked) - Dark Hole starts to hit here
3) Dark Hole's blockstun lands immediately after Sentinel lands
4) Command throw
5) Rocket Punch
6) Hyper Sentinel Force
7) X-Factor, yada yada.

The timing is so perfect that it's basically a mindless tick throw on my end, but extremely hard to defend against for my opponent.

Someone I know on GFAQs does the following after a snapback with Hulk:
1) j.S incoming character (the arc covers upward air dashes like Phoenix's)
2) Call Double Lariat to pin opponent in corner; most opponents duck
3) Gamma Tornado -> Gamma Tsunami

You just have to explore your team. I have 5 different mix-ups I use against incoming characters with Dormammu.

Hulk can kill Hsien-Ko with a single combo if he touches you and has wesker as his anchor. It is fucking ridiculous to me that any character can finish her off in a SINGLE combo.

That's Hulk vs. most characters - you're not supposed to get hit by Hulk.

That shit was fucking horrible, man. I spent the whole fucking night playing against gustav flame and shit with lag all over the place. I felt I was going to do just fine against you and the first match was good stuff. It fucking lagged all over the place on the second match and I just couldn't deal with it anymore. I tried to play, but I just couldn't will myself to play to win.

Where do you live anyway? I checked PSN for a friend invite and did not see one.

At least she does more damage and has an actual projectile. Hsien-Ko is fucking useless when it comes to dealing damage and no one on my team has a standard projectile to fall back on..

What's your team again?

Send one if it is going to be a long session.

Agreed unless my opponent is boring; last person I played we went 21-21, loved every minute of it.

Top 3 all Majors:

SRK's hyperguide needs updating with that info, they're slackin'!

who goes well with Ammy and Trish? I'm thinking WESKER.

I have a lot of fun with Trish/Ammy/Dormammu. Call Bloom, superjump with Trish, turtle! So much meter to play with.

 

[SolarPowered]

Top 3 all Majors:

Looks pretty boring with only a few exceptions.

That's Hulk vs. most characters - you're not supposed to get hit by Hulk.

It just completely caught me off guard because he pulled it off at the very beginning of the match with Wesker's OTG assist. It is basically a TOD combo that can be pulled off at the very beginning. I won two matches and he won three if I remember correctly.

Where do you live anyway? I checked PSN for a friend invite and did not see one.

I live in NYC. I haven't sent one because I have not signed on, yet.

What's your team again?

Morrigan, Amateratsu and Hsien-Ko. I've never seen anyone else use the team online.

Agreed unless my opponent is boring; last person I played we went 21-21, loved every minute of it.

I regularly play around thirty matches at a time when I sign on to PSN. I don't like short bursts because you never get a feel for your opponent.

alright next time we go to first to 10.

What is the longest session you've ever played?

 

[Neki]

Agreed unless my opponent is boring; last person I played we went 21-21, loved every minute of it.

What kind of playstyle do you find boring? Zoning like Q, or constant rushdown like me, or invinicible assists all day.

 

[Karsticles]

What kind of playstyle do you find boring? Zoning like Q, or constant rushdown like me, or invinicible assists all day.

Invincible assists all day, because it completely removes resets and wakeup games from consideration. You're only playing half the game when your opponent is backed by Tron or Haggar. Plus, it really bothers me that Tron and Haggar are the only choices for this kind of assist - major design failure. If they want invincible assists, give us a ton of them, and make that a general part of the game.

But why go through all the trouble to remove Shoryuken's invincibility? It boggles the mind.

Morrigan, Amateratsu and Hsien-Ko. I've never seen anyone else use the team online.

If someone uses Morrigan and Hsien-ko, in my experience that is a 100% chance that the third character is Felicia.

I imagine that your Morrigan has problems getting in safely.

I live in NYC. I haven't sent one because I have not signed on, yet.

Excellent. I live in Michigan, so we have a good shot for a solid connection.

I regularly play around thirty matches at a time when I sign on to PSN. I don't like short bursts because you never get a feel for your opponent.

It's pretty rare that I drop out of a match before my opponent does. The 21-21 was an exception. When we started out, I went something like 2-10 against him (with him being the 10). I slowly started learning how I had to play to handle his awesome Trish, and eventually it all evened out. I was pleased with myself and decided to take a break.

 

[SolarPowered]

Invincible assists all day, because it completely removes resets and wakeup games from consideration. You're only playing half the game when your opponent is backed by Tron or Haggar. Plus, it really bothers me that Tron and Haggar are the only choices for this kind of assist - major design failure. If they want invincible assists, give us a ton of them, and make that a general part of the game.

I'm glad that I'm not the only one. Dahbomb described it best when he called Tron's assist a get out of jail free card. It is ridiculous that they are the only two with this important type of assist and Tron's assist in particular should have been fixed day one to avoid this mess we have now. As it stands, these assists have way too many rewards and too little risk. The right character combination makes getting in on someone with Tron or Haggar as dangerous as trying to break into for knox.

If someone uses Morrigan and Hsien-ko, in my experience that is a 100% chance that the third character is Felicia.

I was never feeling Felicia from the start, but if I had to drop anyone on my team it would probably be Hsien-Ko.

I imagine that your Morrigan has problems getting in safely.

I've been running into that lately, yeah. I've begun using astral fireballs, but it can only do so much in the end. She is really the weakest of the three for rush down. Hsien-Ko can plow through super armor under the right circumstances and ammy's m attack, hit box and vine dash makes her a force to be reckoned with(not to mention the amazing glaive stance). Morrigan is freaking bare compared to those two for good rush down.

It's pretty rare that I drop out of a match before my opponent does. The 21-21 was an exception. When we started out, I went something like 2-10 against him (with him being the 10). I slowly started learning how I had to play to handle his awesome Trish, and eventually it all evened out. I was pleased with myself and decided to take a break.

I think the longest I've ever gone was 35 matches or so. The average is probably somewhere between 15 and 23 so far. Short bursts are just horrible to me. I feel like I could be spending my time better if I'm not learning the match up and time is the biggest issue here.

 

[mr. puppy]

kinda don't feel bad about team best friends + dante that i'm gonna start running. worked on the comboes a whole lot last night, and Dante is really hard to do consistently. I don't feel like a complete bandwagon jumper now that I know at least some skill is involved.

 

[Karsticles]

I'm glad that I'm not the only one. Dahbomb described it best when he called Tron's assist a get out of jail free card. It is ridiculous that they are the only two with this important type of assist and Tron's assist in particular should have been fixed day one to avoid this mess we have now. As it stands, these assists have way too many rewards and too little risk. The right character combination makes getting in on someone with Tron or Haggar as dangerous as trying to break into for knox.

It's like the assists just replace blocking for a lot of players. I have a few hundred games as Dormammu/Tron/Sentinel, and I noticed that Tron consistently caused me to play worse with Dormammu in my other teams because I became overly reliant on its protection. They're a lot like Phoenix in that sense.

I was never feeling Felicia from the start, but if I had to drop anyone on my team it would probably be Hsien-Ko.

Stick to it! If you're interested in facing a good Hsien-ko player, look up Evulsoidier on PSN. He uses Haggar/Hsien-ko/Arthur and got to 2nd Lord with that team. He makes Hsien-ko look like a good character, and made me realize what a great anchor Arthur is.

I've been running into that lately, yeah. I've begun using astral fireballs, but it can only do so much in the end. She is really the weakest of the three for rush down. Hsien-Ko can plow through super armor under the right circumstances and ammy's m attack, hit box and vine dash makes her a force to be reckoned with(not to mention the amazing glaive stance). Morrigan is freaking bare compared to those two for good rush down.

Do you fly-cancel the soul fists so you can rush under fireball support? What assists are you using?

I think the longest I've ever gone was 35 matches or so. The average is probably somewhere between 15 and 23 so far. Short bursts are just horrible to me. I feel like I could be spending my time better if I'm not learning the match up and time is the biggest issue here.

I can sympathize with that.

I'll be playing a lot tonight - if you're around, I'll try to get some games in with you.

kinda don't feel bad about team best friends + dante that i'm gonna start running. worked on the comboes a whole lot last night, and Dante is really hard to do consistently. I don't feel like a complete bandwagon jumper now that I know at least some skill is involved.

I suppose if you don't feel like one, you aren't one, right?

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

About the invisible assists. I think the character they are tied too make them a liability sometimes.

I don't see a lot of Trons and Haggars on teams on the streams, let alone tourny winning teams.

I use Haggar assist, and I find I get blown up by Amy, Wolvie and Mags alot. They can get low under it and hit them. Plus if it comes down to Haggar vs their anchor, most likely you are not going to win.

What I find is when that when those 2 assists are there, it changes how the match is played, which can be good or bad, idk. I mean, I play different than usual when playing against wolverine.

Say like in SF, when I go against a Gief or Sim, I am playing a different game then against a shoto or something.

idk, i suck though, so who knows, hehe.

I do find it weird they make Ryu's DP assist not invisible. I would make him a even more viable character (I think he is pretty good).

 

["God's Beard!"]

I'm back from vacation, add me if you don't believe I exist: Gods_Beard on PSN

Ironing out my team right now, Dornammu(Liberation)/Iron Man(Unibeam)/Phoenix(Drive)

 

[Neki]

I play a competent Tron, so she's not really a liability. She does blow up baddies on ranked PSN though.

 

[GuardianE]

It's like the assists just replace blocking for a lot of players. I have a few hundred games as Dormammu/Tron/Sentinel, and I noticed that Tron consistently caused me to play worse with Dormammu in my other teams because I became overly reliant on its protection. They're a lot like Phoenix in that sense.

In my opinion, Tron just becomes a giant crutch for a lot of players.

 

[SolarPowered]

I was actually thinking about something that no one has really tried. People tend to talk a lot more about other characters instead of their own. What kinds of nerfs and buffs would you apply to your own characters if given the chance? I think it could start some interesting discussion and I'd love to hear people's thoughts on the buffs and nerfs. One thing in particular for Hsien-Ko that I'd like to hear from people about is her Henkyo Ki. What kind of input would you guys prefer for that?

I think it'd go something like this for me.

Hsien-Ko: Hsien-Ko should get absolutely no nerfs whatsoever. She needs serious work.
+Add 50K health for 950K
+Increase her speed
+Increase he damage
+Make Gold hyper last ten seconds with a slight damage boost
+Get rid of her funky air dash and replace it with a quick chain similar to Ammy's vine with diagonal forward, forward and diagonal downward.
+Make her Chireitou startup faster

-Leave everything else as is

Morrigan: Doesn't need many buffs and nerfing of her current stuff will make her invisible.
+Get rid of her gliding dash and replace it for a quick, long ground glide
+Cut her parabolic dash just a teensy bit so she doesn't fly all the way up there for no reason
+Replace the finishing shower with a regular directional beam hyper like Ryu's(don't care if it is not too damaging)

-Leave everything else as is

Amateratsu: She would be the only character to receive a real nerf in my book.
+close the window between the fire and snow in the Okami shuffle just a tiny bit(not so much that she can't be attacked, mind you).

-Possibly close the window for a combo after Ammy's forward ground grab. She already gets a combo from it in the corner and her Okami shuffle will catch you if you get caught in any of the grabs which gives great DHC opportunities as is. I think she can live without this one.
It's like the assists just replace blocking for a lot of players. I have a few hundred games as Dormammu/Tron/Sentinel, and I noticed that Tron consistently caused me to play worse with Dormammu in my other teams because I became overly reliant on its protection. They're a lot like Phoenix in that sense.
There it is.

Stick to it! If you're interested in facing a good Hsien-ko player, look up Evulsoidier on PSN. He uses Haggar/Hsien-ko/Arthur and got to 2nd Lord with that team. He makes Hsien-ko look like a good character, and made me realize what a great anchor Arthur is.

I've already experienced the frying pan that is 20-1 versus Ultimoo and Q several times. If I can survive that and improve I think I'm ready for anything that is thrown at me.

The funny part is that I was thinking about Hsien-Ko's best partners in the game a few minutes ago and Haggar was one of them(along with hulk and Tron). Protection from mix ups, tri dashes and aerial encounters can make Hsien-Ko pretty scarey and gold Hsien-Ko pairs well with assist that have small invincibility frames.

Do you fly-cancel the soul fists so you can rush under fireball support? What assists are you using?

I started using astral fireballs for air support only a week and a half ago at best. My skills only go so far as what I have experienced so I don't get better with practice, but with straight up competition. I've been finding air support very valuable now that more characters are zipping, teleporting and flying about the stage. I haven't really used fly-cancel stuff yet, but I'll probably start learning it if the need arises.

 

[Karsticles]

About the invisible assists. I think the character they are tied too make them a liability sometimes.

Haggar can be argued to be a liability only because you have to choose between:
1) Placing him second; when your point character dies, all of those Double Lariat calls add up, and Haggar comes in with less than maximum life (potentially).

2) Placing him third, and essentially having a 2-man team if your opponent is competent.

If you use his assist wisely though, and your third character is a good anchor with an assist that helps him get in, Haggar is a very solid and underrated point character - just look at Timothy's play.

No way is Tron a liability. Sure, if all you can do is jump, air dash, and hit H, then any competent player will smash you. But if you can mix that up with j.S, j.L, and TKed Bonne Strikes for 1-frame links into command throws, she's a very solid point character. The problem is that most people who use Tron just want the assist, and they have absolutely no interest in learning Tron beyond spamming that j.H all day long until they win or die.

Is there any other character where you can just spam the same move all day, and that's considered acceptable play? Where people actually blame the limitations of the character on you just using one move over and over in a predictable manner instead of saying you suck?

Oh right, Haggar and his pipe.

I don't see a lot of Trons and Haggars on teams on the streams, let alone tourny winning teams.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not complaining about either assist being too good. I'm just saying they make matches boring. I don't lose to people who use these assists any more often than I lose to anyone else. Especially since the average Tron player just mashes j.H.

Since I have Dormammu (c.M > j.H) and Skrull (Elastic Slam >>>> Tron's air dash spam), Tron spammers are pretty free for me. If my opponent is good, she's just as scary as anything else in this game when it is used properly.

 

[Neki]

c.M on Dorm is my worst nightmare. that stuffs out everything from the air. and apparently j.L from Dorm also rapes Ammy's j.H too. stupid dorm. I just need to lame it out more I guess.

 

[GuardianE]

I was actually thinking about something that no one has really tried. People tend to talk a lot more about other characters instead of their own. What kinds of nerfs and buffs would you apply to your own characters if given the chance? I think it could start some interesting discussion and I'd love to hear people's thoughts on the buffs and nerfs. One thing in particular for Hsien-Ko that I'd like to hear from people about is her Henkyo Ki. What kind of input would you guys prefer for that?

Dante: I think he's pretty much perfect the way he is. If I had my way, I'd make it a little easier to combo into grapple, but it's not a big deal.

Wesker: tone down his damage slightly or tone down his health slightly. Other than that, he's a fine character... people just get overwhelmed quickly by the damage output. (if this happens to Wesker, it better happen to Taskmaster too).

Morrigan: I'd give her invincibility on her Shadow Blade and increase the damage on both Finishing Shower and Shadow Blade Hyper. Her damage output needs a little improvement, but she's otherwise very underrated.

 

[LakeEarth]

Every character in this game can make a mix-up against an incoming character. You just have to figure it out. For example, I have been working on this with Dormammu:

This is why I'll never be good at this game. I'm just not a training mode fighter. In SF4 you can learn as you play, but you just can't do that in this game. You have to build your team, come up with a dozen different setups and tricks, and THEN you can play real people and adjust your play to experience. I wish I had the patience.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

Haggar can be argued to be a liability only because you have to choose between:
1) Placing him second; when your point character dies, all of those Double Lariat calls add up, and Haggar comes in with less than maximum life (potentially).

2) Placing him third, and essentially having a 2-man team if your opponent is competent.

If you use his assist wisely though, and your third character is a good anchor with an assist that helps him get in, Haggar is a very solid and underrated point character - just look at Timothy's play.

No way is Tron a liability. Sure, if all you can do is jump, air dash, and hit H, then any competent player will smash you. But if you can mix that up with j.S, j.L, and TKed Bonne Strikes for 1-frame links into command throws, she's a very solid point character. The problem is that most people who use Tron just want the assist, and they have absolutely no interest in learning Tron beyond spamming that j.H all day long until they win or die.

Is there any other character where you can just spam the same move all day, and that's considered acceptable play? Where people actually blame the limitations of the character on you just using one move over and over in a predictable manner instead of saying you suck?

Oh right, Haggar and his pipe.


Don't get me wrong. I'm not complaining about either assist being too good. I'm just saying they make matches boring. I don't lose to people who use these assists any more often than I lose to anyone else. Especially since the average Tron player just mashes j.H.

Since I have Dormammu (c.M > j.H) and Skrull (Elastic Slam >>>> Tron's air dash spam), Tron spammers are pretty free for me. If my opponent is good, she's just as scary as anything else in this game when it is used properly.

I can't speak on Tron as I don't play her. For me, I put Haggar as anchor in a Sent/Doom/Haggar set-up. I put him 3rd because I don't want him to lose his red life from Sent dieing naturally (of course people try to snap him in). If Sent dies, depending on the match-up, I will try to get Haggar in with Doom backing him.

As for why I think he can be a liability is 1 on 1 anchor match-ups. I think Haggar can be good on point. I am not above spamming pipe when he is the last one standing, hehe. But against good players, I find quick air throws counter that. And from what I am seeing in playing these 1st-3rd lords is, there is a lot of Wesker/Akuma/Phoenix anchors.

Plus when thinking about it, I am depressed. I think I am going to switch up to Wolvie/some character/Akuma soon.

 

[Karsticles]

First, the buffs I would like for Dormammu:
+Crouch and attack-cancelable ground dashes (universal roster change)
+c.L chains into c.H (universal hit confirm; right now, you have to go c.L to s.S); alternatively, make s.S safe on block; I'm fine with either
+Aerial Dark Hole no longer renders Dormammu limp until landing (pre-release nerf)
+0D1C and 0D2C OTG (they did pre-release, but got nerfed - now they're useless)
+Fix his air dash so he no longer "hovers" above the ground afterward sometimes

I was actually thinking about something that no one has really tried. People tend to talk a lot more about other characters instead of their own. What kinds of nerfs and buffs would you apply to your own characters if given the chance? I think it could start some interesting discussion and I'd love to hear people's thoughts on the buffs and nerfs. One thing in particular for Hsien-Ko that I'd like to hear from people about is her Henkyo Ki. What kind of input would you guys prefer for that?

Honestly, I'd love for Henkyo Ki to just be b.H, a command normal. It's so essential to her game that it should be as accessible as Wesker's gunshots. At the very most, a QCB motion - RDP is just ridiculous. She uses it for everything, and it's so uncomfortable.

Even in Hsien-ko's current state, I would use her if Dormammu could DHC into her. The alternative is putting her on anchor, and I just don't think that's her proper place unless you want to get smashed by zoners with your anchor, and I don't.

+Make Gold hyper last ten seconds with a slight damage boost

That's definitely way too much. It lasts 5 seconds right now IIRC. You don't want to make it too easy for her to have permanent hyper armor - she would destroy entire teams. I'm fine with taking it to 7, though, and giving it a faster startup so you can perform it safer.

+Get rid of her funky air dash and replace it with a quick chain similar to Ammy's vine with diagonal forward, forward and diagonal downward.

I love her air dash - just make it move forward faster.

+Get rid of her gliding dash and replace it for a quick, long ground glide

I do think every character should have a crouch-cancelable ground dash.

+Cut her parabolic dash just a teensy bit so she doesn't fly all the way up there for no reason

Parabolic dash is for safer assist calls and canceling into Soul Fist, then fly-canceling, then dashing again; it makes your approach awkward to stop. I like it.

+Replace the finishing shower with a regular directional beam hyper like Ryu's(don't care if it is not too damaging)

This gets rid of her air combo finisher though. IMO, just add Soul Eraser as an alternate to Finishing Shower, like Akuma's two projectile hyper versions. Hold H for Soul Eraser. No reason to get rid of options for her.

+close the window between the fire and snow in the Okami shuffle just a tiny bit(not so much that she can't be attacked, mind you).

No way! Random hypers should always be discouraged; this game fosters it too much.

-Possibly close the window for a combo after Ammy's forward ground grab. She already gets a combo from it in the corner and her Okami shuffle will catch you if you get caught in any of the grabs which gives great DHC opportunities as is. I think she can live without this one.

I just want throws standardized. Either let everyone combo off of their ground/air throws, or let no one. I appreciate variety, but this (along with gimped dashes) are not the way to go about it.

The funny part is that I was thinking about Hsien-Ko's best partners in the game a few minutes ago and Haggar was one of them(along with hulk and Tron). Protection from mix ups, tri dashes and aerial encounters can make Hsien-Ko pretty scarey and gold Hsien-Ko pairs well with assist that have small invincibility frames.

Feel free to experiment with teams against me - I am not offended.

I started using astral fireballs for air support only a week and a half ago at best. My skills only go so far as what I have experienced so I don't get better with practice, but with straight up competition. I've been finding air support very valuable now that more characters are zipping, teleporting and flying about the stage. I haven't really used fly-cancel stuff yet, but I'll probably start learning it if the need arises.

IMO, make it as natural as your magic series - it's a huge part of her game.

 

[SolarPowered]

Dante: I think he's pretty much perfect the way he is. If I had my way, I'd make it a little easier to combo into grapple, but it's not a big deal.

Wesker: tone down his damage slightly or tone down his health slightly. Other than that, he's a fine character... people just get overwhelmed quickly by the damage output. (if this happens to Wesker, it better happen to Taskmaster too).

Morrigan: I'd give her invincibility on her Shadow Blade and increase the damage on both Finishing Shower and Shadow Blade Hyper. Her damage output needs a little improvement, but she's otherwise very underrated.

Gotta go to school quickly, but my opinion on Dante is that his moves need to be checked so that he can no longer perform combos while the character has fallen behind him. Almost no other character in the game aside from sent's frying pan and hulk have this ability.

Wesker needs his launcher toned down so that people don't spam it often. He could use a health decrease a slight damage decrease on his normals. Keep his teleports and increase the damage on his SSJALLOVERDATSCREEN hyper slightly as a buff.

I never gave Morrigan's damage any thought. She felt fine in that category for me.

 

[GuardianE]

I can't speak on Tron as I don't play her. For me, I put Haggar as anchor in a Sent/Doom/Haggar set-up. I put him 3rd because I don't want him to lose his red life from Sent dieing naturally (of course people try to snap him in). If Sent dies, depending on the match-up, I will try to get Haggar in with Doom backing him.

As for why I think he can be a liability is 1 on 1 anchor match-ups. I think Haggar can be good on point. I am not above spamming pipe when he is the last one standing, hehe. But against good players, I find quick air throws counter that. And from what I am seeing in playing these 1st-3rd lords is, there is a lot of Wesker/Akuma/Phoenix anchors.

Plus when thinking about it, I am depressed. I think I am going to switch up to Wolvie/some character/Akuma soon.

You should throw Tron variant in there. You already have a team of three godly assists.

Tron or Haggar are liabilities when the player uses them as assist-characters only. Like every anchor, they can clutch it out with careful and intelligent play. They do have limited mobility and options, so you have to make the most of their tools to get around that limitation. Simply having Haggar and Tron on a team as assists in the beginning of the match, however opens up a lot of opportunities. I think it's a pretty fair trade.

Gotta go to school quickly, but my opinion on Dante is that his moves need to be checked so that he can no longer perform combos while the character has fallen behind him. Almost no other character in the game aside from sent's frying pan and hulk have this ability.

Wesker needs his launcher toned down so that people don't spam it often. He could use a health decrease a slight damage decrease on his normals. Keep his teleports and increase the damage on his SSJALLOVERDATSCREEN hyper slightly as a buff.

I never gave Morrigan's damage any thought. She felt fine in that category for me.

Hm, I never really thought that was something that needed nerfing for Dante. One of Dante's advantages is his ranged normals. I don't see those cross-up options as needing nerfing.

I agree with Wesker's launcher. More recovery is a good idea, but the fact that it's abusable can be used against braindead Wesker players. Push block at the standing C and then dashing in to punish when the launcher whiffs. I think they could buff his Maximum Wesker only if he takes a serious hit to his health and damage overall. And I don't think many would like that trade. Most Wesker players like his function as a high damage output battery.

I think Morrigan's damage output is the one of the few things that stops her from being a top contender in this game. She's a meter hog, and completely owns with meter, but she's pretty limited without it.

 

[Karsticles]

c.M on Dorm is my worst nightmare. that stuffs out everything from the air. and apparently j.L from Dorm also rapes Ammy's j.H too. stupid dorm. I just need to lame it out more I guess.

Just think of Dormammu as a smaller Sentinel when you approach him. His attack hitboxes outrange pretty much everything in the game except for Sentinel and Dante's attacks.

This is why I'll never be good at this game. I'm just not a training mode fighter. In SF4 you can learn as you play, but you just can't do that in this game. You have to build your team, come up with a dozen different setups and tricks, and THEN you can play real people and adjust your play to experience. I wish I had the patience.

It's more entertaining when you do it with a friend. I like to create setups, and I have a friend I play with regularly online try to get out of them; it gives me a good sense of whether they're a strong idea in practice.

I can't speak on Tron as I don't play her. For me, I put Haggar as anchor in a Sent/Doom/Haggar set-up. I put him 3rd because I don't want him to lose his red life from Sent dieing naturally (of course people try to snap him in). If Sent dies, depending on the match-up, I will try to get Haggar in with Doom backing him.

As for why I think he can be a liability is 1 on 1 anchor match-ups. I think Haggar can be good on point. I am not above spamming pipe when he is the last one standing, hehe. But against good players, I find quick air throws counter that. And from what I am seeing in playing these 1st-3rd lords is, there is a lot of Wesker/Akuma/Phoenix anchors.

Plus when thinking about it, I am depressed. I think I am going to switch up to Wolvie/some character/Akuma soon.

Well, there you go. Not every character is a good 1 on 1 fighter. It's best to put Haggar and Tron second unless you are absolutely comfortable with the gamble of having a weak anchor. It's a tradeoff; you can either have 2 characters backed by the invincible assist, but a weaker anchor, or just 1 backed by the invincible assist, and have a solid, balanced team. I prefer the latter.

 

[mr. puppy]

I suppose if you don't feel like one, you aren't one, right?

nah i'm going 99% bandwagon, 1% skill on this choice.

 

[Karsticles]

Wesker needs his launcher toned down so that people don't spam it often. He could use a health decrease a slight damage decrease on his normals. Keep his teleports and increase the damage on his SSJALLOVERDATSCREEN hyper slightly as a buff.

Honestly, I'm fine with the entire roster having safe launchers. Marvel has never been a game about punishing recovery on attacks, but about overwhelming your opponent's ability to react to stimuli.

Wesker's Phantom Dance is actually a solid hyper, but people all relaunch with Wesker and then push their opponent into the corner before using it, so it hits poorly. Good Wesker users Phantom Move L after they spike their opponent, and then OTG into Phantom Dance; it hits a lot more this way. Every character should want to be in Wesker's situation, though: you have such good mix-up options that it's better for you not to burn meter. Users of heavy characters are jealous!

nah i'm going 99% bandwagon, 1% skill on this choice.

I don't see them as having any relation to each other. Bandwagon is all about not coming up with your own team that fits you; I don't see it as having anything to do with personal skill level. Noel Brown is a self-professed tier whore, which is essentially bandwagoning in competitive play, but he's still a solid player.

 

[Tallshortman]

It was more like his opponent was really bad at blocking Wolverine. When Justin does this to Tokido, it's a fair 50/50. The guy Justin faced off against recently ate every single mix-up like Phoenix couldn't block. Not that I'm criticizing him, mind you.

Did Justin try that with Tokido? I watched just a little bit of their matches back when it happened and I don't remember him trying that strat against Tokido.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

You should throw Tron variant in there. You already have a team of three godly assists.

Tron or Haggar are liabilities when the player uses them as assist-characters only. Like every anchor, they can clutch it out with careful and intelligent play. They do have limited mobility and options, so you have to make the most of their tools to get around that limitation. Simply having Haggar and Tron on a team as assists in the beginning of the match, however opens up a lot of opportunities. I think it's a pretty fair trade.

Tron would be dope, hehe. This is just a personal experience/take on things, but I hate online when some people message me that Haggar is cheap. I just message them the same stuff that is known. Bait him out, and use lot moves to get under him. I have been suckered by tons of Wolverines and Ammys!!

Also another question, how different are you guys playing your teams in regards to X-factor now because of the shift of team power?

Right now, with my Sent/Doom/Haggar. I burn lvl1 x-factor to kill Mags or Wolvie (if they don't have PHX on anchor) if I get a hit in. I didn't use to do this and tried to save it.

I have also switched from Hidden Missiles to Plasma Beam as my Doom assist. I still have huge problems with Taskmaster, hehe.

And man, I hate Wolvierine's dive kick hit box even more the last few days, haha.

 

[GuardianE]

Did Justin try that with Tokido? I watched just a little bit of their matches back when it happened and I don't remember him trying that strat against Tokido.

Justin did, and it worked at first, but Tokido adjusted and there were some missed attempts. Against Tin, he did it over and over because he kept getting opportunities. Tokido had a more solid defense overall. He modified his strategy to compensate and began to defend better against Justin's snap attempts. Tin couldn't defend against Justin's Wolverine, and got slaughtered by the mixup whenever his Phoenix was in the corner.

The other factor is that Tin's Phoenix was the real threat in the match, just because she's Phoenix. Against Tokido, he has a scary Wolverine AND Phoenix, so Justin has to make a decision on how to burn meter and X-Factor. Against Tin, Justin felt comfortable burning meter over and over just to make sure Phoenix died.

Also another question, how different are you guys playing your teams in regards to X-factor now because of the shift of team power?

It depends who I'm facing. If I see someone using an assist only character, then I'll make it a point to use everything to kill their point character. If I see a Phoenix, I save my X-Factor to try to counter Dark Phoenix if I have to. Against unknowns, I still use Lvl 3 X-Factor as a failsafe with Morrigan. I never feel threatened because I know that by the time I get to Morrigan, I can almost certainly kill one character in a single combo (X-Factor mid combo), then use Astral Vision to mixup/chip the incoming character to death. She's my little Wolverine.

 

[Karsticles]

Did Justin try that with Tokido? I watched just a little bit of their matches back when it happened and I don't remember him trying that strat against Tokido.

Yup, and I think GuardianE did the situation justice in his explanation.

Bait him out, and use lot moves to get under him. I have been suckered by tons of Wolverines and Ammys!!

I would love to be able to bait Haggar with Dormammu.

Also another question, how different are you guys playing your teams in regards to X-factor now because of the shift of team power?

I haven't changed at all. My decision is still highly situational.

I have also switched from Hidden Missiles to Plasma Beam as my Doom assist. I still have huge problems with Taskmaster, hehe.

I use Molecular Shield; the windup period absorbs projectiles, so it lets Dormammu win a lot more firefights. Otherwise there's not much Dormammu can do against a superior zoning character backed by Haggar assist.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Dormammu dream upgrade:

+

• Replace Air Dark Hole with Air Purification -being able to pull enemies up to you in the sky and combo after would be the SHIT
• Allow Flame Carpet to be X-factor Canceled
• Give OTG capability back to the Spikes
• Replace Purification and Liberation assists with Dark Spell - Creation and Dark Spell - Destruction, Liberate at 3 stocks like normal versions

-

• Bring health down to 900k

Thor necessary upgrade:

+

• Projectile nullification on Air Mighty Strike charge from 7th frame
• Add hitbox to frames 10-41 of charged Mighty Strike - think Blanka
• Increase the range on air SPD

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

Yup, and I think GuardianE did the situation justice in his explanation.


I would love to be able to bait Haggar with Dormammu.


I haven't changed at all. My decision is still highly situational.


I use Molecular Shield; the windup period absorbs projectiles, so it lets Dormammu win a lot more firefights. Otherwise there's not much Dormammu can do against a superior zoning character backed by Haggar assist.

How do you play your Dorm? Rush or sit back? I was playing this Dorm the other day that had Dorm/Dante/Morrigan team. His Dante had Jam session and Morrigan with the meter assist.

I had a rough time getting in with Sent. He would set back, drop carpets and call jam session. And his flame hyper was blowing me up. Plus he always had meter. And XF3 morrigan is scary, heh.

 

[Tallshortman]

Justin did, and it worked at first, but Tokido adjusted and there were some missed attempts. Against Tin, he did it over and over because he kept getting opportunities. Tokido had a more solid defense overall. He modified his strategy to compensate and began to defend better against Justin's snap attempts. Tin couldn't defend against Justin's Wolverine, and got slaughtered by the mixup whenever his Phoenix was in the corner.

The other factor is that Tin's Phoenix was the real threat in the match, just because she's Phoenix. Against Tokido, he has a scary Wolverine AND Phoenix, so Justin has to make a decision on how to burn meter and X-Factor. Against Tin, Justin felt comfortable burning meter over and over just to make sure Phoenix died.

Hmm very interesting, I'm wondering what Justin is working on to up his game above Tokido's. He could always just dump she-hulk for phoenix but he said he thought phoenix was too cheap at NCR so I guess we'll see. I think the key will be if Justin's Wolvie can outmatch Tokido's consistently (which I think at this point Justin has the best Wolvie).

 

[GuardianE]

And XF3 morrigan is scary, heh.

She's gonna eat you up!

Hmm very interesting, I'm wondering what Justin is working on to up his game above Tokido's. He could always just dump she-hulk for phoenix but he said he thought phoenix was too cheap at NCR so I guess we'll see. I think the key will be if Justin's Wolvie can outmatch Tokido's consistently (which I think at this point Justin has the best Wolvie).

I'd rather Justin not jump on the bandwagon, but he's in it to win it, after all. I guess we'll see. I mean, She-Hulk is still a fantastic character, but he might develop a team to counterpick certain Phoenix teams.

I think that Justin's downfall against Tokido was partially that he second guessed his own strategy too much and missed a few combos (which = death). He also switched up his team in the second set to Wolv, Ammy, Tron... and while he's familiar with Ammy and Tron, they're obviously not his strongest characters. This was where the entire set became a series of lvl 1 X-Factor Wolverines. Tokido isn't scared of Tron. If he can take out Wolverine and get a mixup on Ammy by burning X-Factor early, it was worth it to him. And that's exactly what he did.

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

She's gonna eat you up!

lol. XF3 Morrigan owns my robot soul!! Along with Ammy.

 

[Neki]

go to sleep, or play Marvel, tough choice.

 

[Dahbomb]

Part 2 might take a bit longer. I appreciate OgreKiller's list of the top 3's (my list included the top 2's from all majors) but including the top 3 doesn't change the facts much at all except for adding Joe in a major. And maybe Justin Wong's troll Super Skrull cameo.

Enzo I will respond to your post a bit later too. Just got some stuff to do.

 

[sixteen-bit]

go to sleep, or play Marvel, tough choice.

Go to sleep. You'll die without sleep.

 

[Neki]

Go to sleep. You'll die without sleep.

I'll also die without Marvel. I'm already up as is!