"God's Beard!"
Member
_dementia said:
Street Fighter X Tekken stay free
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Marvel vs Capcom 3: Fate of Two Worlds |OT2| Sold exclusively at Dollar Tree
- Thread starter Teknopathetic
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Street Fighter X Tekken stay free
shaowebb
Member
Oldschoolgamer said:
I cracked up seeing Wolverine using all his boosts during an Ammy time slow to be able to loop drill claws.
Also that Spider-Man Web throw combo just got even scarier with the addition of Sentinel during its start up to double the length of it. I've only seen it popped with 3 throws into a Maximum Spider before with Doom missiles. The fact that you can DHC the end into Doom's vertical shooting Hyper is pretty badass. Thor killer?
Parallax Scroll
Banned
I keep thinking of dropping Zero, since I can be about as deadly with Wolverine with a lot less effort, but then I remember how much rad shit I can do with Zero.
It seems like most tournament teams that use him make use of the DHC glitch, which my current team does not.
BTW, Buster isn't cancellable is it? That would help explain why I drop my buster followup (teleport or taser) so often.
It seems like most tournament teams that use him make use of the DHC glitch, which my current team does not.
BTW, Buster isn't cancellable is it? That would help explain why I drop my buster followup (teleport or taser) so often.
DHC glitch is pretty much out of style now. You look at the top placers in the recent tournaments, hardly any one of them used the DHC glitch.
JWong : Wolverine/Storm/Akuma, Wolverine/Ammy/Tron, She Hulk/Wolverine/Akuma
Only one of these teams can DHC glitch and JWong never bothers doing it.
Tokido: Wolverine/Sentinel/Phoenix. Not capable of DHC glitch.
ChrisG: Ammy/Ryu/Wesker. DHC glitch capable potentially but he never uses it.
Viscant: Wesker/Iron Man/Phoenix. DHC glitch capable potentially but he never uses it.
DHC glitch is used by the upper mid players now. The meta for DHC glitch is over because of Wolverine early X Factor LVL1 meta and Phoenix meta (both of which are worse off with the DHC glitch).
And yes Wesker + Akuma is solid. Low Gun shot + Tatsu into relaunch. Crispier than Ryu Tatsu that Chris G uses although very similar.
JWong : Wolverine/Storm/Akuma, Wolverine/Ammy/Tron, She Hulk/Wolverine/Akuma
Only one of these teams can DHC glitch and JWong never bothers doing it.
Tokido: Wolverine/Sentinel/Phoenix. Not capable of DHC glitch.
ChrisG: Ammy/Ryu/Wesker. DHC glitch capable potentially but he never uses it.
Viscant: Wesker/Iron Man/Phoenix. DHC glitch capable potentially but he never uses it.
DHC glitch is used by the upper mid players now. The meta for DHC glitch is over because of Wolverine early X Factor LVL1 meta and Phoenix meta (both of which are worse off with the DHC glitch).
Strider is the closest. Wesker is fairly orthodox in this game. He doesn't have weird ass inputs or a weird magic series, has a solid wave dash and intuitive teleport game with a command grab.
And yes Wesker + Akuma is solid. Low Gun shot + Tatsu into relaunch. Crispier than Ryu Tatsu that Chris G uses although very similar.
Parallax Scroll
Banned
I meant Zero teams. Most of the Zeros I've seen in tournaments recently still use the DHC glitch.Dahbomb said:
Hmm, I never really played Strider. I just have to get used to some Wesker combos and wrap my head around the gun and teleport. I don't think I'd picked up Akuma yet last time I tried out Wesker, so now I've at least got a good assist to use with OTG gun.Dahbomb said:
What's a good starter combo? ABC special move knockdown, OTG gun with Akuma, launcher into magic series?
Karsticles
Member
Because Akuma is only good with meter.
You could say that for most of this game's cast, but it doesn't make them unorthodox; he has the gun, he has a teleport, and he has good normals. He's a rather simple character.
Hsien-ko is unorthodox. Arthur is unorthodox. These characters have awkward inputs for combos and weird movements.
Is that the glitch, or the players now, though? I'm unconvinced either way.
Parallax Scroll
Banned
Right, I forgot about that. Good reason.Karsticles said:
I guess going pewpewpew from across the screen comes more naturally to me than teleporting around. Not that I really play Arthur much.Karsticles said:
Jump in with S, A B C QCF + A (this will cause hard knockdown), wave dash up Low Gun shot, d+B, C QCF + B (this will cause the wall bounce), dash up, d+B, S, B B C S, Akuma Tatsu, Low Gun shot... do whatever after this.
The reason why you want to get this whole combo down is A) You will learn to pick up characters after wave dash low gun shot -> d+B B) You will learn to pick up characters after a wall bounce with dash up d+B C) you will optimize your solo damage with Wesker D) Bring them to the corner where you can do all sorts of stuff against them.
You can just go into easy mode combo with A B C S B B C S low gun shot + Akuma S B B C S low gun shot Team Hyper combo. Instead of Team Hyper combo you can just try to air throw them because you don't wanna waste meter with Wesker unless it's for the kill.
The reason why you want to get this whole combo down is A) You will learn to pick up characters after wave dash low gun shot -> d+B B) You will learn to pick up characters after a wall bounce with dash up d+B C) you will optimize your solo damage with Wesker D) Bring them to the corner where you can do all sorts of stuff against them.
You can just go into easy mode combo with A B C S B B C S low gun shot + Akuma S B B C S low gun shot Team Hyper combo. Instead of Team Hyper combo you can just try to air throw them because you don't wanna waste meter with Wesker unless it's for the kill.
Parallax Scroll
Banned
Thank you!Dahbomb said:
About the bolded, how many reps do you typically need on the wave dash? Right now I don't wave dash with anyone yet. I do at least use 2-button dashes instead of double tapping.
This is a good match between Daigo and Xray from NCR. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m56e5LyOYBM
Some other top 8 matches up on our YT channel as well with more on the way.
also, interview with fchamp - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhjfgwKpPmo
Some other top 8 matches up on our YT channel as well with more on the way.
also, interview with fchamp - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhjfgwKpPmo
For Wesker you generally only need one (Two buttons, down, Two Buttons that's 1 rep). He covers a lot of ground with his dashes anyway and it gets him in range for the OTG after hard knockdowns. You don't need to wave dash for a wall bounce combo, his d+B has huge range.Parallax Scroll said:
There is plink dashes too which is useful for someone like Iron Man who can't do proper wave dashes. It's like Dash B~C. I don't recommend it at this stage though, just try to get down wave dash.
Karsticles
Member
It's about how the character moves and feels. Not having a dash with Arthur, but having a double-jump, and having a different weapon for every qcf.X motion, plus a second full set of weapons with Gold Armor, is very non-intuitive. You have to master Arthur for Arthur.
Compare that to Wesker. You want to dash? You dash. You want to stop dashing? Push down. You want to shoot your gun? Push forward and H. You want to shoot the gun downward? Push df.H. Want to shoot the gun downward while jumping? Push d.H.
It's all very natural, while Arthur really has to be learned, unless you're content with spamming Dagger Toss all day, and call that "playing Arthur". Every character performing well in tournaments right now is highly intuitive.
SolarPowered
Member
Some characters are just easier to pick up and play. Most of the spotlight characters have that property and that is why they dominate the scene for now. That is not a bad thing at all, it is just the truth of the matter.
You and me should hang out sometime, bro. Maybe a few matches on PSN because I've never played you before and you seem knowledgeable enough.Karsticles said:
Karsticles
Member
The teleports do take a little learning, but the only thing non-intuitive about them is that it's a DP motion instead of an RDP motion. I have no idea why Capcom did that, because it is irritating.
I'm on in the evenings when I am on, and almost all weekend. I'm always up for friendly matches.
Edit: My PSN is the same as my username: Karsticles
@DahBomb: he can double jump! That's something...
Also, I learned that Arthur's s.M (the shield parry) doesn't just negate attacks, but projectiles as well. I learned this when I had a match against someone I know who plays a really strong Haggar/Hsien-ko/Arthur, and he parried a Dark Hole. I was simultaneously irritated and amused.
JeTmAn81
Member
I picked up Wesker recently and I'm having fun with simply calling an assist and teleporting forward, which done at the right distance leaves me behind them. This is especially easy on an incoming character. That's enough for me to start with, and it's pretty tricky for the average player to defend against. I was playing someone today who was being trickier by mixing teleports into standard block strings, so I think I'll try that next.
I usually don't even do the gunshot into teleport, which helps by telegraphing my movements a bit less.
I usually don't even do the gunshot into teleport, which helps by telegraphing my movements a bit less.
iAmMaximus
Member
Luckydude23
Member
Caj814 said:
That's cool. I really love your vids, but I've been wondering, what is the name of the song you used in the Chimichanga video? I've been looking for it everywhere.
What they wanted to capture was the insane difficulty of Ghosts n Goblins where Arthur's movements were shit and got you killed in a second.
They succeeded in doing so.
Spencer TECHNOLOGY
They succeeded in doing so.
Spencer TECHNOLOGY
Lazy vs Crazy
Member
Trying to learn stick.
This is going poorly.
This is going poorly.
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
For Storm:
c.L, c.M, c.H, JC, j.H, j.H, j.S, Land, M, d.H, JC, H, adf, H, Land, M, c.H, c.S, j.M, j.H, j.S, OTG Hyper (around 520k)
What is the timing for M after you do H adf H? I can't hit it consistently. Should I pause after the adf, then hit H, then land and hit M? Either, I'm to slow and they pop out of it, or I miss them completely(medium and large characters)...
c.L, c.M, c.H, JC, j.H, j.H, j.S, Land, M, d.H, JC, H, adf, H, Land, M, c.H, c.S, j.M, j.H, j.S, OTG Hyper (around 520k)
What is the timing for M after you do H adf H? I can't hit it consistently. Should I pause after the adf, then hit H, then land and hit M? Either, I'm to slow and they pop out of it, or I miss them completely(medium and large characters)...
shaowebb
Member
Lazy vs Crazy said:
Yeah it took me awhile to get anything nice outta the stick when I switched. The hardest for me is still shoryuken motions mid combo. They feel hesitant and slow from me. However, unlike on pad, I never hand cramp on the stick and I can perform a lot trickier types of combos because my typing speed on a stick is way faster than my tapping speed on a pad. I'll just have to train my shoryuken more.
Best thing to do is find a config that works for you first. Mine is ABC (Team Hyper) on the top row and S partner 1 partner 2 dash on the bottom row.
Its similar to a six button input with the far right ones just getting used as extra buttons. I never even use those two buttons really since I prefer to avoid team hypers and I two button dash
Once you got a layout you like go into training and just practice disruptors over and over until that motion is down. I preferred disruptors to hadokens since they can be shot faster and it let me train for faster reflexes, though my tatsu and shoryuken motions were trained on Ryu.
It'll take time, but its a good thing to use. However, if you go a month of really putting in matches and you feel the stick hurts you its okay to be a pad warrior. I was shocked by how good many pad warriors are, but there are quite a few who go far in tournies.
sixteen-bit
Member
This is delicious.Dahbomb said:
sixteen-bit
Member
Shame to see him retire. I wish him well though and I hope he recovers from whatever it is.
Oh man that's really sad, hopefully he is doing fine.
I am about to do a massive write up here concerning my impressions on MVC3 in major tournaments and the upcoming EVO tournament. Been working on it for quite some time now.
Just a heads up so you guys don't freak out over it, it has been a work in progress for quite some time now.
I am about to do a massive write up here concerning my impressions on MVC3 in major tournaments and the upcoming EVO tournament. Been working on it for quite some time now.
Just a heads up so you guys don't freak out over it, it has been a work in progress for quite some time now.
Luckydude23
Member
Dahbomb said:
When do you think it will be up? I enjoy reading your posts.
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
Damn. I liked watching his team. Hopefully, he's alright.
I'm gonna marvel 2 it up with Storm/????/Magnus. I miss Psylocke.
Tron or haggar will have to do.
Storm is fun to use in this. She's not gdlk anymore, but fun.
I'm gonna marvel 2 it up with Storm/????/Magnus. I miss Psylocke.
Tron or haggar will have to do. Storm is fun to use in this. She's not gdlk anymore, but fun.
Master Milk
Member
When you say here, do you mean in this thread or on GAF in general? A massive write up would probably be best in its own thread, if you're looking for lots of people to discuss it. It'd probably get lost pretty quickly in here.Dahbomb said:
i don't know about making a new thread for his write up. if its huge then it will probably get lost even quicker on the gaming side. here at least people are interested in the game and will read it. the same people from this thread will be the ones responding to it on gaming gaf so you might as well keep it here.Master Milk said:
Master Milk
Member
i don't see why it being huge would cause it to get lost quickersmurfx said:
if there's something to discuss, and lots of it, that should be exactly the kind of thing you want a thread for
MVC3 USA MAJORS
The following facts and figures are obtained from the listed 8 major MVC3 tournaments in the USA:
Winter Brawl, Final Round, PowerUp, UFGT, CEO, Revelations, NorCal Regionals, ECT 3.
All the characters that have appeared in a GRAND FINAL (Winner and Runner Up) for the major tournaments.
Read list as: Character, Number of appearances and in brackets Tournaments Won and Runner Up positions.
SHE HULK 5 (4, 1)
WOLVERINE 5 (3, 2)
PHOENIX 4 (2, 2)
AMATERASU 4 (2, 2)
SENTINEL 4 (1, 3)
DORMAMMU 4 (1, 3)
MAGNETO 4 (0, 4)
WESKER 3 (2, 1)
AKUMA 3 (2, 1)
TRON 3 (1, 2)
TASKMASTER 2 ( 1, 1)
RYU 1 (1, 0)
STORM 1 (1, 0)
IRON MAN 1 (1, 0)
DANTE 1 (1, 0)
SPENCER 1 (1, 0)
ZERO 1 (0, 1)
DR DOOM 1 (0, 1)
HAGGAR 1 (0, 1)
Characters are listed in order of appearance and then # of tournaments won. In case of equal values, the character who has won a more recent tournament will be listed first.
SOME FACTS BASED ON THE RESULTS OF THE MAJOR TOURNAMENTS
*She Hulk has the best record out of the entire cast with 5 appearances and 4 majors won. However, this record spans the first 4 tournaments only and She Hulk has been sparse in every tournament after UFGT.
*Wolverine is the opposite of She Hulk. While he was sparse in every tournament before UFGT, he became dominant very quickly afterward (almost exactly after he was declared #1 at PowerUp despite not placing there).
*Magneto is the ONLY character who has made as many as 4 appearances in a grand final yet has not won a major tournament. He has the most Runner Up positions.
*Exactly 18 different characters have been used in the grand finals, which is exactly half of the current roster.
*Among She Hulk, Wolverine and Wesker... these 3 characters have won EVERY SINGLE MAJOR in the USA.
*While a majority of the teams in grand finals were capable of using the DHC glitch, very few teams were actually set up to use it. In fact in the grand finals of all the majors, DHC glitch was very sparse.
*Justin Wong has the most USA tournaments won out of all players in MVC3 at 3 (NorCal Regionals, UFGT and Winter Brawl). He also has the most Runner Up spots at 2. He has one 3rd spot and 2 majors he didn't attend so he has essentially placed no less than 3rd in EVERY MAJOR MVC3 tournament he has participated in.
*Before CEO/Revelations (which were on the same weekend), Phoenix had never appeared in a grand final. In 3 consecutive tournaments, she appeared 4 times and won 2 times.
*Average health of a Point character which went on to win a major tournament is over 1 million!
*Most used Point character = She Hulk
Most used 2nd character = Amaterasu
Most used Anchor character = Phoenix
Sentinel was used at 2nd spot in Tokido's team so he just missed out on most used Anchor character. Ammy was used in 2nd spot in all but one team and even in that team she was used 2nd at least one time during the course of the tournament (Chris G ECT). Wolverine would've tied She Hulk but JWong used him at 2nd spot in one major so he comes in second to She Hulk.
ANALYSIS OF THE MAJORS
(This analysis is made based on the facts presented from the major tournaments)
EXECUTION
Execution has been a huge factor in all the major MVC3 tournaments. It has for the most part dictated character selection and has also dictated character wins. A character who is easy to play, does big damage, has nice hit boxes and decent mix ups is a character who has placed in a tournament.
Judging from the characters who have won, it's safe to say that it's the "easy" half of the roster that has made it. The only few exceptions here are Iron Man who got one spot and Hulk who despite being easy to play with hasn't placed. The grand finals have also shied away from unorthodox characters and DLC characters.
It is also a major reason why characters like She Hulk, Wolverine and Wesker have placed high consistently where as others like Magneto and Dante have placed very little if at all even though most would agree there isn't much difference among these characters potential wise... except for level of execution. Certainly watching most of the these tournaments have shown that dropped combos are a reality and Magneto/Dante lead the pack in dropped combos. Dante out of the top 5 characters has by far the least appearances with all the rest having at least 3 or 4 to his one and only appearance at PowerUp. C Viper is no where to be seen despite being agreed upon as being a "top character".
Not only that but based upon selection of combos, players have gravitated towards mid level to day 1 combos for their characters. High level combos have rarely been used in grand finals play.
Execution is going to play a major role in EVO as well. Character selection is going to be based around "who can get me an easy win". Combos will be dropped by certain characters more often than other characters (Wolverine combos will almost never be dropped).
STYLE OF PLAY: DOMINANCE OF RUSHDOWN AND MIX UPS
The facts displayed by the majors yell out one very obvious detail about the game's meta: Rushdown is king and mix ups dictate the pace of a match. As stated in the fact sheet, the majors are dominated by Point characters like She Hulk, Wolverine and Wesker who are great at rushing down and even better at mix ups.
Very few zoning characters have placed high and those who are exclusively zoning characters are no where to be found (like Chris and Arthur). The most zoning style team in a grand final was Noel Brown's Dormammu/Sentinel/Doom team and it made Runner Up. Even those characters who by design are zoning characters are being played in a more rushdown style in the majors.
Even on a Phoenix team, mix ups and rushdown dominate. A Phoenix team which is more about mix ups/rushdown has been more successful (2 won) with Wesker/Wolverine than a Phoenix team that is more about zoning (Taskmaster or Dormmamu on a Phoenix team has placed no better than Runner Up).
This very rushdown style of play has even dictated assist selection. Top tier assists like Cold Star, Tatsu and Sentinel Drones have been more popular and more successful in grand finals than "get off me" assists like Gustaff Flame and Lariat. An assist that locksdown and allows for mix ups is a more valued assist in the game's current meta.
Mix ups on incoming characters has been a huge advancement in MVC3 technology and it has allowed Wolverine to become a very dominant character in the game over She Hulk. Other characters have developed similar strategies and it is now a must for any top tier team to have mix ups ready for incoming characters due to the resurgence of Phoenix play.
One other important fact to note down is that characters with very good air throw game have dominated the grand finals.
This pattern of rushdown, mix ups and assists that amplify such play will dominate at EVO... even on Phoenix teams.
X FACTOR USAGE
A sharp 180 degree turn in X factor usage has caused a major change in how players make teams and use them especially in a grand final. In the early days of the grand finals for MVC3, X factor usage was dominated by LVL3. In the latter half, EVEN AGAINST PHOENIX matches were overflowing with LVL1 X Factors.
This also goes hand in hand with the change of dominance of She Hulk from Wolverine. Once players learned to handle X factor'd characters better it became much more valuable to kill the first character and have a crack at the incoming character. With the way that most players built their team, the first character was usually their strongest (with their 2nd one being either their best or at least 2nd best) so burning XF early ended up being a game winning strategy.
The exception to the rule is of course on a Phoenix team where it is advantageous for both players to save their X Factors for the end unless Phoenix was snapped in and killed. Even this changed during CEO when Tokido showed the world how to REALLY play a Phoenix team... burning X Factor and meter judiciously for the character kills. It opened people's eyes and the meta-game was changed completely after that.
Going into EVO, only the most staunch Phoenix players will be saving their X Factors. It's only when a team gets BLOWN UP when they HAVE to use LVL3 will we see late X factors at EVO. When Wolverine is being played on point.... expect early X factor activations.
DHC GLITCHES
DHC glitches had their time but now they are a relic. With such high damage options, LVL3 hypers, early activations of X factor, Phoenix meta and team order headaches players have had little reason to use DHC glitches in grand finals.
This doesn't mean that we won't see them at EVO, but they aren't going to be as rampant. Killing characters have never been easier.
PHOENIX PROBLEM
She is a problem and she needs to be solved. The combination of Wolverine as point and Phoenix as anchor has created a new monstrosity for players to deal with. Early X factor usage on a Phoenix team has also created some problems that players are having difficulty dealing with. Tokido is the forerunner of this strategy and he has won every single major he has been in with it.
Phoenix defines the current meta of MVC3. You either have a Phoenix team or you have a really solid anti-Phoenix team/strategy/technology up your sleeve to deal with the problem. The rise of good Phoenix gatekeepers like Wesker/Wolverine makes matters worse where they are pretty much free to do whatever they want and are generally exposed to less punishment because the other player is too busy worrying about Phoenix on deck.
It goes without saying but... expect to see Phoenix at EVO.
(PART II where I will talk about the players, "best team" for EVO and East Coast vs West Coast among other things will be posted TOMORROW)
The following facts and figures are obtained from the listed 8 major MVC3 tournaments in the USA:
Winter Brawl, Final Round, PowerUp, UFGT, CEO, Revelations, NorCal Regionals, ECT 3.
All the characters that have appeared in a GRAND FINAL (Winner and Runner Up) for the major tournaments.
Read list as: Character, Number of appearances and in brackets Tournaments Won and Runner Up positions.
SHE HULK 5 (4, 1)
WOLVERINE 5 (3, 2)
PHOENIX 4 (2, 2)
AMATERASU 4 (2, 2)
SENTINEL 4 (1, 3)
DORMAMMU 4 (1, 3)
MAGNETO 4 (0, 4)
WESKER 3 (2, 1)
AKUMA 3 (2, 1)
TRON 3 (1, 2)
TASKMASTER 2 ( 1, 1)
RYU 1 (1, 0)
STORM 1 (1, 0)
IRON MAN 1 (1, 0)
DANTE 1 (1, 0)
SPENCER 1 (1, 0)
ZERO 1 (0, 1)
DR DOOM 1 (0, 1)
HAGGAR 1 (0, 1)
Characters are listed in order of appearance and then # of tournaments won. In case of equal values, the character who has won a more recent tournament will be listed first.
SOME FACTS BASED ON THE RESULTS OF THE MAJOR TOURNAMENTS
*She Hulk has the best record out of the entire cast with 5 appearances and 4 majors won. However, this record spans the first 4 tournaments only and She Hulk has been sparse in every tournament after UFGT.
*Wolverine is the opposite of She Hulk. While he was sparse in every tournament before UFGT, he became dominant very quickly afterward (almost exactly after he was declared #1 at PowerUp despite not placing there).
*Magneto is the ONLY character who has made as many as 4 appearances in a grand final yet has not won a major tournament. He has the most Runner Up positions.
*Exactly 18 different characters have been used in the grand finals, which is exactly half of the current roster.
*Among She Hulk, Wolverine and Wesker... these 3 characters have won EVERY SINGLE MAJOR in the USA.
*While a majority of the teams in grand finals were capable of using the DHC glitch, very few teams were actually set up to use it. In fact in the grand finals of all the majors, DHC glitch was very sparse.
*Justin Wong has the most USA tournaments won out of all players in MVC3 at 3 (NorCal Regionals, UFGT and Winter Brawl). He also has the most Runner Up spots at 2. He has one 3rd spot and 2 majors he didn't attend so he has essentially placed no less than 3rd in EVERY MAJOR MVC3 tournament he has participated in.
*Before CEO/Revelations (which were on the same weekend), Phoenix had never appeared in a grand final. In 3 consecutive tournaments, she appeared 4 times and won 2 times.
*Average health of a Point character which went on to win a major tournament is over 1 million!
*Most used Point character = She Hulk
Most used 2nd character = Amaterasu
Most used Anchor character = Phoenix
Sentinel was used at 2nd spot in Tokido's team so he just missed out on most used Anchor character. Ammy was used in 2nd spot in all but one team and even in that team she was used 2nd at least one time during the course of the tournament (Chris G ECT). Wolverine would've tied She Hulk but JWong used him at 2nd spot in one major so he comes in second to She Hulk.
ANALYSIS OF THE MAJORS
(This analysis is made based on the facts presented from the major tournaments)
EXECUTION
Execution has been a huge factor in all the major MVC3 tournaments. It has for the most part dictated character selection and has also dictated character wins. A character who is easy to play, does big damage, has nice hit boxes and decent mix ups is a character who has placed in a tournament.
Judging from the characters who have won, it's safe to say that it's the "easy" half of the roster that has made it. The only few exceptions here are Iron Man who got one spot and Hulk who despite being easy to play with hasn't placed. The grand finals have also shied away from unorthodox characters and DLC characters.
It is also a major reason why characters like She Hulk, Wolverine and Wesker have placed high consistently where as others like Magneto and Dante have placed very little if at all even though most would agree there isn't much difference among these characters potential wise... except for level of execution. Certainly watching most of the these tournaments have shown that dropped combos are a reality and Magneto/Dante lead the pack in dropped combos. Dante out of the top 5 characters has by far the least appearances with all the rest having at least 3 or 4 to his one and only appearance at PowerUp. C Viper is no where to be seen despite being agreed upon as being a "top character".
Not only that but based upon selection of combos, players have gravitated towards mid level to day 1 combos for their characters. High level combos have rarely been used in grand finals play.
Execution is going to play a major role in EVO as well. Character selection is going to be based around "who can get me an easy win". Combos will be dropped by certain characters more often than other characters (Wolverine combos will almost never be dropped).
STYLE OF PLAY: DOMINANCE OF RUSHDOWN AND MIX UPS
The facts displayed by the majors yell out one very obvious detail about the game's meta: Rushdown is king and mix ups dictate the pace of a match. As stated in the fact sheet, the majors are dominated by Point characters like She Hulk, Wolverine and Wesker who are great at rushing down and even better at mix ups.
Very few zoning characters have placed high and those who are exclusively zoning characters are no where to be found (like Chris and Arthur). The most zoning style team in a grand final was Noel Brown's Dormammu/Sentinel/Doom team and it made Runner Up. Even those characters who by design are zoning characters are being played in a more rushdown style in the majors.
Even on a Phoenix team, mix ups and rushdown dominate. A Phoenix team which is more about mix ups/rushdown has been more successful (2 won) with Wesker/Wolverine than a Phoenix team that is more about zoning (Taskmaster or Dormmamu on a Phoenix team has placed no better than Runner Up).
This very rushdown style of play has even dictated assist selection. Top tier assists like Cold Star, Tatsu and Sentinel Drones have been more popular and more successful in grand finals than "get off me" assists like Gustaff Flame and Lariat. An assist that locksdown and allows for mix ups is a more valued assist in the game's current meta.
Mix ups on incoming characters has been a huge advancement in MVC3 technology and it has allowed Wolverine to become a very dominant character in the game over She Hulk. Other characters have developed similar strategies and it is now a must for any top tier team to have mix ups ready for incoming characters due to the resurgence of Phoenix play.
One other important fact to note down is that characters with very good air throw game have dominated the grand finals.
This pattern of rushdown, mix ups and assists that amplify such play will dominate at EVO... even on Phoenix teams.
X FACTOR USAGE
A sharp 180 degree turn in X factor usage has caused a major change in how players make teams and use them especially in a grand final. In the early days of the grand finals for MVC3, X factor usage was dominated by LVL3. In the latter half, EVEN AGAINST PHOENIX matches were overflowing with LVL1 X Factors.
This also goes hand in hand with the change of dominance of She Hulk from Wolverine. Once players learned to handle X factor'd characters better it became much more valuable to kill the first character and have a crack at the incoming character. With the way that most players built their team, the first character was usually their strongest (with their 2nd one being either their best or at least 2nd best) so burning XF early ended up being a game winning strategy.
The exception to the rule is of course on a Phoenix team where it is advantageous for both players to save their X Factors for the end unless Phoenix was snapped in and killed. Even this changed during CEO when Tokido showed the world how to REALLY play a Phoenix team... burning X Factor and meter judiciously for the character kills. It opened people's eyes and the meta-game was changed completely after that.
Going into EVO, only the most staunch Phoenix players will be saving their X Factors. It's only when a team gets BLOWN UP when they HAVE to use LVL3 will we see late X factors at EVO. When Wolverine is being played on point.... expect early X factor activations.
DHC GLITCHES
DHC glitches had their time but now they are a relic. With such high damage options, LVL3 hypers, early activations of X factor, Phoenix meta and team order headaches players have had little reason to use DHC glitches in grand finals.
This doesn't mean that we won't see them at EVO, but they aren't going to be as rampant. Killing characters have never been easier.
PHOENIX PROBLEM
She is a problem and she needs to be solved. The combination of Wolverine as point and Phoenix as anchor has created a new monstrosity for players to deal with. Early X factor usage on a Phoenix team has also created some problems that players are having difficulty dealing with. Tokido is the forerunner of this strategy and he has won every single major he has been in with it.
Phoenix defines the current meta of MVC3. You either have a Phoenix team or you have a really solid anti-Phoenix team/strategy/technology up your sleeve to deal with the problem. The rise of good Phoenix gatekeepers like Wesker/Wolverine makes matters worse where they are pretty much free to do whatever they want and are generally exposed to less punishment because the other player is too busy worrying about Phoenix on deck.
It goes without saying but... expect to see Phoenix at EVO.
(PART II where I will talk about the players, "best team" for EVO and East Coast vs West Coast among other things will be posted TOMORROW)
Infinite Justice
Member
Wow i remember when a lot of people laughed at Phoenix/Jean life points and Seth Kilian's defense of it (IIRC she needed it cuz she was broken).
Now? Yea.....
Now? Yea.....
Man you make great posts Dahbomb.
On another note, finally got to the near end of that FucT combo vid. Oh my God, I neeeeeed to see someone bust out the combo on stream with the appropriate Merry Christmas sendoff, preferably something like this. :lol :lol :lol
On another note, finally got to the near end of that FucT combo vid. Oh my God, I neeeeeed to see someone bust out the combo on stream with the appropriate Merry Christmas sendoff, preferably something like this. :lol :lol :lol
Absolutely fantastic post as usual Dahbomb. Your execution section reminds me though, you posted an article about tier lists earlier, and I thought it was really well written but didn't get much love here. However the second point does pose a massive conundrum for me. At what point does grading a character disclude high skill levels required for execution in ranking? Isn't that central towards the character's viability as well, the percentage chance of dropping combos? Especially in Marvel where there are a thousand factors at work at any given moment?
I believe it is incredibly central, and only supported by exactly what you've discussed there: the ease of execution, and the easing of the risk/reward factor in a high risk and high stakes game like Marvel is what contributes to the amount of play characters like Wolverine and such get and thus their higher placements in terms of competitive viability relative to other characters. However I wouldn't put She-Hulk as a low execution character either. A ton of shit can go wrong. These reasons are exactly why I feel like at the moment, C. Viper is not top 5 anymore. However as execution and the metagame continues to develop, I think she'll rise quickly through the ranks because the potential in the core character is limitless if MarlinPie is any indication.
I believe it is incredibly central, and only supported by exactly what you've discussed there: the ease of execution, and the easing of the risk/reward factor in a high risk and high stakes game like Marvel is what contributes to the amount of play characters like Wolverine and such get and thus their higher placements in terms of competitive viability relative to other characters. However I wouldn't put She-Hulk as a low execution character either. A ton of shit can go wrong. These reasons are exactly why I feel like at the moment, C. Viper is not top 5 anymore. However as execution and the metagame continues to develop, I think she'll rise quickly through the ranks because the potential in the core character is limitless if MarlinPie is any indication.
Professor Beef
Banned
something something best in the worldUltimoo said:
GotchaForce
Member
Dahbomb said:
quoting godliek post for new page
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