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[enzo_gt]

New C. Viper technology:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=c7vk3GmzHiM

Before she was a sleeper top tier, but now...sleeper god tier with that Amaterasu setup?

You have to be careful when balancing characters, lest they become too strong. That's why Hsien-ko can't have good pressure like this.

Spoiler

rofl

This isn't new at all bro, MarlinPie uses that Amaterasu setup in literally EVERY match. Some of that tech is the basis for many of MarlinPie's combos, and what he uses to deal with people who rushdown his Viper. The focus attack/assist combo he employs all the time when he has someone coming in in the corner and it gives Viper so many options, including overheads, invisible overheads, low mixups, literally anything you can do in a corner outside of a 50/50.

Also strangely enough, every single thing displayed in the video except the combo at 2:42 MarlinPie explained himself in his tutorial. Hell part of that video he's using Marlin's exact team.

The only thing -and it's a big one- stopping C. Viper from being the best character in the game is execution. I've always thought she was one of the best, but the GG level of execution required keeps me from saying it. Like GB said, MarlinPie cuts a lot of his combos short, and has variants on some to deal with different situations. She is TheoryCraft best character in the game, easily.

 

[Karsticles]

Ah, I've watched MarlinPie play a lot and never seen those setups - cool.

 

["God's Beard!"]

The other side(which i still consider to be part of execution) that makes her difficult is situational awareness. She has so many tools that work in subtly different ways that it can be overwhelming to always be on top of the best approach to each matchup in each situation.

This is what I like about Marvel 3. There's such a wide variety of legitimate playstyles that you can pick the characters that fit the type of player you are, and be stronger than picking the agreed-upon best characters.

In my mind, there's 3 basic types of players:

• Execution(always stays solid, knows their limits and stays right at the upper edge of their game. Daigo, Viscant, Sako, Fuudo, Satyamdas) - Dormammu, Dante, Wesker
• Technical(studies the game to max out their character and surprise people, always reaching into the toolbox to adjust on the fly, sometimes to their own mistakes. Marlinpie, Yipes, Poongko, Marn, God's Beard) - Magneto, C.Viper, Doom
• Intuitive(understands players better than the game, learns quickly how to exploit the opponent's habits to win without exerting themselves. When their guess fails, everything crumbles. Justin Wong, Mike Ross, Combofiend, IronFist, Timedog) - She-Hulk, Wolverine, Akuma

 

[Varjet]

Runnin' Sets Ep. 13 FLASH METROID vs. MIKE ROSS - MvC3 Pt. 1
I've been waiting for this.

 

[Karsticles]

I'm not following how Dormammu is in "Execution" GB. While I think he's very "Intuitive", I think Dormammu belongs in a 4th category that is rarely seen in fighters, and that's something like "Knowledge" - you really have to understand every single character in the game and what they can do to play Dormammu well, whereas a character like Wolverine pretty much treats the entire cast the same.

 

[JeTmAn81]

Runnin' Sets Ep. 13 FLASH METROID vs. MIKE ROSS - MvC3 Pt. 1
I've been waiting for this.

This is going to be ugly. Worse than Clockw0rk.

 

[JeTmAn81]

Anybody got any tips for how to beat a Dante/Haggar combo online? Granted, I was using Hulk, but I was just unable to break out of this pattern when I get inevitably pushed into the corner:

1. Call Haggar.

2. Immediately teleport, or hit a couple of times with Dante on the ground before teleporting.

The fact that he staggered the time of teleport was making it really hard to get out of this. Well, let's say impossible for me to get out of it. I don't think I got out once. Even the rare couple of times I blocked correctly I was unable to do anything without getting hit by Haggar. I know this is a common type of pressure, I've seen Richard Nguyen do it with Dante/Haggar, but I just don't know how to beat it. I just can't block the other way in time.

The team I was running was Hulk/Wesker/Magneto. Normally Hulk's armored attacks would be able to get through something like this, but Haggar is too much.


Edit: I need to go record this one in training mode. Still not sure I'll be able to figure out how to get out, though

 

[Kimosabae]

I'm not following how Dormammu is in "Execution" GB. While I think he's very "Intuitive", I think Dormammu belongs in a 4th category that is rarely seen in fighters, and that's something like "Knowledge" - you really have to understand every single character in the game and what they can do to play Dormammu well, whereas a character like Wolverine pretty much treats the entire cast the same.

You should try getting into 3D fighters ;o

 

[Karsticles]

You should try getting into 3D fighters ;o

Hmm, I think we had this discussion, and the myriad of reasons I don't like them. Soul Calibur is the only one I can even tolerate.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I'm not following how Dormammu is in "Execution" GB. While I think he's very "Intuitive", I think Dormammu belongs in a 4th category that is rarely seen in fighters, and that's something like "Knowledge" - you really have to understand every single character in the game and what they can do to play Dormammu well, whereas a character like Wolverine pretty much treats the entire cast the same.

Well I actually had 4 types before with the 4th being similar to that, but I think Execution fits characters where you stick to your gameplan no matter what, even if that plan changes from matchup to matchup. It's like champ said, Dormammu is a lot like Sim. You have to stay solid and know where each character wants to be. It's not really intuitive because that's more like recognizing whether someone will block high a lot. Justin Wong, for instance, counts in his head how many times a person will try a certain setup or get hit by a certain attack, and even points out to his teammates when their opponent can't do certain combos from one side or the other.

• Execution = wins by always being in the correct position and leveraging opportunities consistently
• Technical = wins by overloading and breaking the opponent with information
• Intuitive = wins by recognizing and exploiting bad habits

Of course, there's always overlap, but you could make a web chart for each player and see where their style lies. It's almost like rock paper scissors, too.

• Execution-types have an advantage over intuitive-types because they always stick to their plan and eliminate risks(Daigo vs Justin)
• Technical-types have an advantage over execution-types because they constantly throw out gimmicks that are hard to plan for and change them rapidly(Poongko vs Daigo)
• Intuitive-types have an advantage over Technical-types because they recognize the favored gimmicks and attack their weaknesses(Justin vs Richard Nguyen)

 

[enzo_gt]

Hmm, I think we had this discussion, and the myriad of reasons I don't like them. Soul Calibur is the only one I can even tolerate.

Same, all the other fighters lack soul to me, no pun intended. And even SCV is looking like garbage, so I can't see myself picking up any 3D fighting games for a long time. SCII is the only 3D fighter I'd go as far as saying I liked.

Also 3D fighters outside of Soul Calibur seem to care very little for making interesting looking character. Back to the aesthetics debate, it means a lot for me. I see no purpose in me playing a game to play a bland grey structure of hit and hurtboxes vs. another bland grey structure of hit and hurtboxes.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

The other side(which i still consider to be part of execution) that makes her difficult is situational awareness. She has so many tools that work in subtly different ways that it can be overwhelming to always be on top of the best approach to each matchup in each situation.

This is what I like about Marvel 3. There's such a wide variety of legitimate playstyles that you can pick the characters that fit the type of player you are, and be stronger than picking the agreed-upon best characters.

In my mind, there's 3 basic types of players:

• Execution(always stays solid, knows their limits and stays right at the upper edge of their game. Daigo, Viscant, Sako, Fuudo, Satyamdas) - Dormammu, Dante, Wesker
• Technical(studies the game to max out their character and surprise people, always reaching into the toolbox to adjust on the fly, sometimes to their own mistakes. Marlinpie, Yipes, Poongko, Marn, God's Beard) - Magneto, C.Viper, Doom
• Intuitive(understands players better than the game, learns quickly how to exploit the opponent's habits to win without exerting themselves. When their guess fails, everything crumbles. Justin Wong, Mike Ross, Combofiend, IronFist, Timedog) - She-Hulk, Wolverine, Akuma

Interesting way of looking at players. I like it.

 

[Dahbomb]

Execution, the word, is being used improperly here.

Actually... God Beard is probably using it right but in the FG sense it's not apt. It strictly means literally hard to execute or play with. So execution heavy characters are those characters that are simply hard to play with because their game plan revolves around doing more complex motions or combos than normal (like tiger knee half circle back H after launcher into tiger knee Maximum Spider of Spider Man, his UWT resets, tiger knee his RDP Web Swings or linking from his Web Zips... all hard execution stuff for MVC3).

I think instead of Execution the word that should be used is simply Solid or Balanced.

The rest I agree with. I see myself always trying to be more solid than technical so I would definitely fall in the first category of players.


On the note of C Viper... well nothing really needs to be said that hasn't been said already. Top tier character potentially but you have to work insanely hard with her as compared to the other characters to win. But if 2 robots were playing MVC3 then the robot playing C Viper would almost always win.

 

[shaowebb]

Runnin' Sets Ep. 13 FLASH METROID vs. MIKE ROSS - MvC3 Pt. 1
I've been waiting for this.

Good God Mike you need to stop thinking like this is SSFIVAE.

He hangs back looking to punish player mistakes with his big armored power shots into teeny combos just like he does with E. Honda except he is DEAD when he does that at Marvel.

He uses Thor and spams elbows and uses assists as shields for him.
He uses Sent and keeps slinging crouching B and rushes in a lot.
He uses Storm and just goes for Chip with the Ice storm at random constantly.
He uses Hulk and just goes all in hoping to connect with anything.

I think his only setup is drone spam crossup attempts and his Sent is damned predictable. When he panicks he just tries to random hyper chip with hard drive or HSF and every time he does it folks yawn and either DHC out of any chip and punish or jump over and punish.

He needs to practice setups more in this game if he wants to use his prefferred tactic of punishing hard on small openings while running patiently away from people with healthy dudes all damned day.

His Storm + Hulk may work out with fair wind/fould wind to a degree setting up Hulk stuff in Ultimate, but not nearly as good as what it would do with Sent drones to throw people into shit. Truthfully though I think he just needs a whole new gameplan before he starts picking cast next time around. Maybe run a heavy High/low setup with hulk waves + assists from either Hawkeye or Taskmaster. I'm rather shocked he doesn't use Spencer given the guy's mobility and damage output. Maybe he's too technical for Mike's tastes but he'd be really good with Hulk or any of his current picks really.

Guy needs an intervention pretty bad. He needs to extend his combos more with assists or learn more than one setup with them. Right now if he loses Sent his whole team falls apart and how hard is it to kill his Sent right now?

 

[Dahbomb]

Ross just needs to play different characters and different teams. Like I saw him body online warriors with day 1 Wolverine. If he's gonna play brain dead then at least use brain dead characters. I am sure that if you give him Wolverine/Wesker/Akuma he would start bodying people or at least not lose as bad.

Also team synergy and set ups are severely lacking. His set ups are only good if you are playing like day 1 Marvel, everyone and their grand ma knows the tricks that Ross has on his team. It's like "OH HERP DERP HE DID MIGHT STRIKE L AFTER THE COMBO AND IS AIR DASHING UP WITH THOR I WONDER WHAT HE WILL DO NOW!!!"

LOL @ Flash calling the Iron Man vs Sentinel match up 10-0 in favor of Iron Man. I definitely prefer the match up with Iron Man but it's not THAT bad.

 

[shaowebb]

Ross just needs to play different characters and different teams. Like I saw him body online warriors with day 1 Wolverine. If he's gonna play brain dead then at least use brain dead characters. I am sure that if you give him Wolverine/Wesker/Akuma he would start bodying people or at least not lose as bad.

Also team synergy and set ups are severely lacking. His set ups are only good if you are playing like day 1 Marvel, everyone and their grand ma knows the tricks that Ross has on his team. It's like "OH HERP DERP HE DID MIGHT STRIKE L AFTER THE COMBO AND IS AIR DASHING UP WITH THOR I WONDER WHAT HE WILL DO NOW!!!"

LOL @ Flash calling the Iron Man vs Sentinel match up 10-0 in favor of Iron Man. I definitely prefer the match up with Iron Man but it's not THAT bad.

Ya know I'm down with him just dumping the whole damned list of characters he's using. He doesn't have any synergy just like you say and if he's playing all 3 to the point of being individuals on the team AND he's playing brain dead strategy then, yeah, its time to move onto new teams.

Lets give the man a new team.

I declare team Mike 2.0-Vergil/Dr. Strange/ Spencer

I don't know what that team'll do but it already has more setups than anything he has given its got Spencer + Strange to draw on for assists. Vergil will likely be a point character if he's got as many moves as Dante so he should be good enough to survive.

If he fails with this team he can swap out his choice for Ghost Rider. He's herp derp simple enough from full screen with his damage and chip output that he fits Mike Ross.

 

[Dahbomb]

Well let's look at what Mike Ross likes.

*He likes command grabs for sure. All of his characters except Storm have a command grab. Honda has a command grab too. He definitely feels comfortable command throw characters.

*He likes super armor and he wants a ton of it. With a lot of super armor moves buffed he will definitely be abusing it (or trying to) a lot more.

*He likes hypers he can just throw out there to make space or chip. Like Storm's Hail and HSF.

*He is good at making reads (well at least in SSF4), he is capable of making comebacks (with or without X Factor).

*Prefer characters that aren't too execution heavy and do solid damage with easy combos.

*Prefers characters that have higher health than usual because he likes to read his opponent and he likes to have the extra health to gauge his opponent better.

*Definitely does not like to play "lame" or turtle. He will space and poke around but eventually he wants to get in to the big time damage.


With those points in mind here are characters that he should be looking at:

She Hulk: On the top of the list. Once Mike gets a grasp of the running cancel, he should be able to pick up this character easily. It's definitely like Mike's playstyle and gives him the speed he needs to get in. With her air dash and Mike showing enough skill with IADs he should definitely give She Hulk a try. Command grab, high health, easy combos, rushdown, intuitive play style. You have to remember that Mike plays Honda really like a rushdown character almost even though he is really more of a turtler.

Wesker: Well at least MVC3 Wesker where he had a ton of health. Now he is more pixie but I still think he is Ross's character. Command grab, rushdown, easy damaging combos, more about making reads and doing resets.

Nemesis: Someone has to use the hulking giant from Capcom's side... Mike Ross can add another command grab, super armor, tank character to his arsenal!

 

[DR2K]

Eh, this match up was pretty much even sans the Tron assist spam. Gustaff fire is especially effective against larger characters.

 

[JeTmAn81]

I don't think Mike is going to give up on Hulk easily. In Ultimate, Hulk is getting a bit of a buff so I think he should still be a viable point character. He just needs assists that shore up Hulk's weaknesses. He could probably still play Storm, but an OTG would be really helpful. Either Wesker or Deadpool or one of the new characters that has an OTG, but it should probably be somebody with low execution requirements. Wesker fits well.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

can't win without thor

 

[Kimosabae]

"Life has a flavor the sheltered will never know".

 

[shaowebb]

How about She Hulk(torpedo)/Hulk (gamma wave)/Nemesis(go boom boom)

For Mike Ross then?
I also expect him to roll Nemesis and the grabs/health/OTG extensions on this team are through the roof. Combos seem piss easy enough and all would have tools for going in so long as it doesn't come down to just Hulk.

He can use torpedo/ Gamma Wave/Go Boom Boom (dont know the name but its seems fittingly retarded enough) to keep them out and also to catch grounded guys for any of the team and this way his piss easy combos all have extensions to them without having to DHC each time.

 

[Tobe]

finally 3rd lord after god knows how. i could try going for high or 1st but my isp is having some kind of connection issues lately idk but my marvel matches which are ok are now plain bad

 

[haunts]

Fubarduck is teaming up with Japan's top Zero player, Frieda, to bring you Amalgame TV. If you have a question about the Japanese FG scene, hit them up in the IPW comments and they will answer your questions.

http://iplaywinner.com/news/2011/9/5/amalgame-tv-weekly-recap.html

 

[Conceited]

Min streaming poverty and MvC3 on the side if you want to watch Nerdjosh play Tinshi

http://www.twitch.tv/min2012

 

[syztem]

After never progressing past 9th lord since the game was released, I've made it to 6th lord.

Trying to find a suitable replacement for akuma (i'm bad with him, yet still do plenty of damage with random beams) on my wolvie/akuma/wesker team. Tried Taskmaster a bit with moderate success, but I'm not convinced.

Any suggestions?

 

[Mr Touchdown]

After never progressing past 9th lord since the game was released, I've made it to 6th lord.

Trying to find a suitable replacement for akuma (i'm bad with him, yet still do plenty of damage with random beams) on my wolvie/akuma/wesker team. Tried Taskmaster a bit with moderate success, but I'm not convinced.

Any suggestions?

Sent has a great assist to cover Wolverine and Wesker on approach.

If you want to open yourself to the DHC Glitch, try out Spencer.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

 

[syztem]

I have no idea why I didn't think about Sentinel, definitely going to try him out.

 

[Dahbomb]

Iron Man fits nicely in my Wolverine/Wesker team. Unibeam allows Wolverine to do pretty much anything except a consistent instant overhead j.L follow up. And of course Wesker + Iron Man is a great pairing. I expect a team like this to be more prominent in UMVC3 as far as Wolverine based teams as he really is going to need help getting in.

 

[Infinite Justice]

Needs to be on a shirt ASAP

 

[syztem]

Iron Man fits nicely in my Wolverine/Wesker team. Unibeam allows Wolverine to do pretty much anything except a consistent instant overhead j.L follow up. And of course Wesker + Iron Man is a great pairing. I expect a team like this to be more prominent in UMVC3 as far as Wolverine based teams as he really is going to need help getting in.

I've never actually tried Iron Man besides just messing around week 1. I think he would work nicely actually if I can use him... just need to learn how

 

[Anth0ny]

Iron Man fits nicely in my Wolverine/Wesker team. Unibeam allows Wolverine to do pretty much anything except a consistent instant overhead j.L follow up. And of course Wesker + Iron Man is a great pairing. I expect a team like this to be more prominent in UMVC3 as far as Wolverine based teams as he really is going to need help getting in.

Yeah I'm considering bringing him back in Ultimate. Iron Man was a part of my very first team (Wesker/Iron Man/Sent), my current team is Wolverine/x/Wesker. Phoenix Wright is definitely taking someone's place in Ultimate, so...

Phoenix Wright/Iron Man/Wesker? I like it.

 

[enzo_gt]

GGs Nils and Smurf.

To Smurf especially:

Good shit though, playing online always makes me see all my mistakes and get blown up in matchups I don't see with the people I play. Always fun as long as I'm ever so sloooooooooowly learning.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

Good games enzo. Didn't expect the lag to be so bad though, but I suppose that's because of the distance between Canada and Belgium although most US players I face rarely lag that much. Luckily there were enough matches with little lag so it was tolerable. That aside matches themselves were cool although I did tend to get blown up when I played anything other than my main team. Also, as you may have noticed I can't block Super Skrull worth a damn

 

[smurfx]

Good games enzo. Didn't expect the lag to be so bad though, but I suppose that's because of the distance between Canada and Belgium although most US players I face rarely lag that much. Luckily there were enough matches with little lag so it was tolerable. That aside matches themselves were cool although I did tend to get blown up when I played anything other than my main team. Also, as you may have noticed I can't block Super Skrull worth a damn

hey if you ever want to play some marvel then add me on live. smurfxzilla is the name. gg's enzo.

 

[enzo_gt]

Good games enzo. Didn't expect the lag to be so bad though, but I suppose that's because of the distance between Canada and Belgium although most US players I face rarely lag that much. Luckily there were enough matches with little lag so it was tolerable. That aside matches themselves were cool although I did tend to get blown up when I played anything other than my main team. Also, as you may have noticed I can't block Super Skrull worth a damn

Damn Belgium? Never ever paid attention to your little country icon. GG man. I actually don't think the lag was THAT bad, but I guess that's relative since most of the people I play from the east coast of the US have much worse connections. I dropped so many combos and inputs, but it's all good, especially when my bro was streaming video the entire time unbeknownst to me.

Can't even use an excuse with Smurf though, that's the best connection I've ever played against someone with. And I think he's in Socal too, right Smurf?

 

[smurfx]

Damn Belgium? Never ever paid attention to your little country icon. GG man. I actually don't think the lag was THAT bad, but I guess that's relative since most of the people I play from the east coast of the US have much worse connections. I dropped so many combos and inputs, but it's all good, especially when my bro was streaming video the entire time unbeknownst to me.

Can't even use an excuse with Smurf though, that's the best connection I've ever played against someone with. And I think he's in Socal too, right Smurf?

yeah i live in socal.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

Damn Belgium? Never ever paid attention to your little country icon. GG man. I actually don't think the lag was THAT bad, but I guess that's relative since most of the people I play from the east coast of the US have much worse connections. I dropped so many combos and inputs, but it's all good, especially when my bro was streaming video the entire time unbeknownst to me.

Can't even use an excuse with Smurf though, that's the best connection I've ever played against someone with. And I think he's in Socal too, right Smurf?

My icon is actually set to US because the EU matchmaking has a pretty poor player pool, and yeah it wasn't that bad overal. it's just when it was bad, it was really bad for a few seconds, but I'm definitely up for more matches in the future.

 

[enzo_gt]

yeah i live in socal.

*wishes Ontario got half decent internet*

Temporarily on the second shittiest DSL I've ever had. 5mbps and goes out whenever it feels like it several times a week. Will be back on 10mbps Cable soon, hopefully by the time UMvC3 and it's epic GAF lobbies arrive. Can't wait to see the salt in action.

By the way, for those of us too lazy/insecure to use the mic, one of the text message buttons should say "Salt."

My icon is actually set to US because the EU matchmaking has a pretty poor player pool, and yeah it wasn't that bad overal. it's just when it was bad, it was really bad for a few seconds, but I'm definitely up for more matches in the future.

As am I, send me a message whenever I'm in MvC3! School starts tomorrow though, I'll be on *even* less often unfortunately.

 

[Karsticles]

My icon is actually set to US because the EU matchmaking has a pretty poor player pool, and yeah it wasn't that bad overal. it's just when it was bad, it was really bad for a few seconds, but I'm definitely up for more matches in the future.

 

[enzo_gt]

"Everything went better than expected, it's okay."

 

[Odinson]

I'm on for a few if anyone wants some "free" matches. GT same as SN

 

[smurfx]

I'm on for a few if anyone wants some "free" matches. GT same as SN

sent you a message and you never responded. anyway i finally did it! i finally caught somebody as they were coming in and killed them completely before they could do anything. it was even thor to boot. caught him with a taskmaster cross up and then did my usual combo and then x factor 1 and caught him with my hypers. i've been wanting to do that to somebody since i discovered i could link all 3 of my hypers properly. to use it on such a high life character was very important as well as i know i can kill anybody if i catch them. although i think i could of killed thor maybe even without going x factor 1 but i wanted to test this out on in the wild and not just on training mode.

 

[Odinson]

sent you a message and you never responded. anyway i finally did it! i finally caught somebody as they were coming in and killed them completely before they could do anything. it was even thor to boot. caught him with a taskmaster cross up and then did my usual combo and then x factor 1 and caught him with my hypers. i've been wanting to do that to somebody since i discovered i could link all 3 of my hypers properly. to use it on such a high life character was very important as well as i know i can kill anybody now if i catch them.

Sent one but you left. I was in a match when I got your message.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

Hmm? It's just when I have my real country in the system settings it prioritizes matching me with European players, which may be good in theory but in the case of Marvel this usually means I'm sitting in training mode for 15 mins in between games only to be matched with the same damn players over and over again. Besides that my connection is fairly decent (16 mbit/s) so it's not like I'm dooming everyone I play to lag hell matches.

 

[Lazy vs Crazy]

Break stream is the best.

Jaxel: Is it Mugetsu or Rogue Yoshi?
Some Guy: Yo Mugetsu is his slave name, given to him by Triforce.

 

[smurfx]

gg bark.

 

[Odinson]

gg bark.

gg Smurf... I hope to get to your level someday =)

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Hmm? It's just when I have my real country in the system settings it prioritizes matching me with European players, which may be good in theory but in the case of Marvel this usually means I'm sitting in training mode for 15 mins in between games only to be matched with the same damn players over and over again. Besides that my connection is fairly decent (16 mbit/s) so it's not like I'm dooming everyone I play to lag hell matches.

Bandwidth is irrelevant to online gaming.