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Marvel vs Capcom 3: Fate of Two Worlds |OT3| Self-Control Support Group

F

Frantic

Member
Dahbomb said:
Dante and Vergil are going to make a great pair just because Dante is going to build the meter for Vergil to burn.
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Pretty much, and it's not like Dante is an easy fight by any means. Top tier pair, for sure.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Vergil is totally going to overshadow Dante, just like in DMC3. Especially since Dante is getting nerfed. It's going to end up in a sort of 'why use Ryu over Akuma' or 'why use Zero over Wolverine' comparison in vanilla. Makes me a little sad... still totally repping Dante no matter what, though. Character loyalty and all that. I'm not going to complain about it, though. Dante - even with his 'nerfs' - is going to be high tier at the very least.
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Dante has such a huge and interesting moveset, and while Vergil can teleport-cancel some of his stuff, Dante can deal so much chip while being entirely safe thanks to bold canceling and frame advantage.

Vergil's gameplan is going to revolve around blowing through a LOT of meter. He's definitely going to tie with C. Viper as the most 'meter-heavy' character in the game, possibly even MORE than her. First character with a 'Level 4' AND a 'Level 2', two hypers that don't build meter. Dude's going to be spending that meter all over the place. Unlike C. Viper, though, I think he's going to suffer from heavy hit-stun deterioration and damage scaling if you end up using his summoned swords a lot.
Click to expand...
Then it seems like the proper order for team DMC would be Trish/Dante/Vergil, since Vergil will want to anchor with meter and good solo-crossups and Trish loves Jam Session. The DHC would function as well.
 
F

Frantic

Member
Karsticles said:
Dante has such a huge and interesting moveset, and while Vergil can teleport-cancel some of his stuff, Dante can deal so much chip while being entirely safe thanks to bold canceling and frame advantage.
Click to expand...
The problem is, Vergil looks like he won't be NEARLY as complex and difficult to use as Dante, while still remaining as effective if not more so. This was true for DMC3:SE, where Dante had to choose his weapons and styles for whatever fight he was going to get into, while Vergil had everything right out of the get go.

But, we'll have to see how it all pans out. Like I said, I'm not going to complain. I just don't want the same thing that happened in MvC3 to happen here, where characters are overshadowed by equally effective, easier to use characters.

Edit: You mentioned how Dante has a vast and interesting moveset, and I agree fully. If you look at the various Dante players, you'll end up seeing that there are a LOT of different playstyles surrounding him. Sure, they'll mesh together on simple terms, but with his moveset and assists, there are simply dozens of ways to play him. Dante's combos have gotten boring, but his set ups haven't, really. I tend to learn something new about him every stream I see with him.

Karsticles said:
Then it seems like the proper order for team DMC would be Trish/Dante/Vergil, since Vergil will want to anchor with meter and good solo-crossups and Trish loves Jam Session. The DHC would function as well.
Click to expand...
That's the order I'm thinking. Dante on Jam Session and Vergil on Rapid Slash will help cover any area of the screen, giving Trish time to set up traps and just zone. They also will help her approach stay safe. The same could be said with Rapid Slash + Dante's Teleport. Plus, Trish and Dante aren't the best anchors, and Vergil won't really need assists to keep his teleports safe.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
The problem is, Vergil looks like he won't be NEARLY as complex and difficult to use as Dante, while still remaining as effective if not more so. This was true for DMC3:SE, where Dante had to choose his weapons and styles for whatever fight he was going to get into, while Vergil had everything right out of the get go.
Click to expand...
Dante has some things Vergil does not though:
Reverb Shock -> Fireworks is really safe and deals good chip damage, plus it advances him forward and he can cancel into Million Dollars for decent damage if you happen to hit your opponent. Vergil has no correlation.

Dante also has Havoc Missiles, Jam Session, and Guiter Shot (I forgot the real name), which allow him to zone some heavy characters - Vergil has no zoning moves, just a general projectile that doesn't seem useful for the same sort of function.

Dante also has Acid Rain, which allows him to set up his own cross-ups on incoming characters without meter.

There's more to it than that, but my point is that Dante still has a lot going for him that Vergil does not. Vergil is much more like Wesker than Dante IMO, but without a gunshot. He's going to have to rush constantly.
 
F

Frantic

Member
Karsticles said:
Dante has some things Vergil does not though:
Reverb Shock -> Fireworks is really safe and deals good chip damage, plus it advances him forward and he can cancel into Million Dollars for decent damage if you happen to hit your opponent. Vergil has no correlation.

Dante also has Havoc Missiles, Jam Session, and Guiter Shot (I forgot the real name), which allow him to zone some heavy characters - Vergil has no zoning moves, just a general projectile that doesn't seem useful for the same sort of function.

Dante also has Acid Rain, which allows him to set up his own cross-ups on incoming characters without meter.

There's more to it than that, but my point is that Dante still has a lot going for him that Vergil does not. Vergil is much more like Wesker than Dante IMO, but without a gunshot. He's going to have to rush constantly.
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True. Wesker will more than likely be the one to be overshadowed, but I can't reall see Vergil replacing him on a competitive level. Casual level, definitely, but not competitive. One of Wesker's most useful attributes is his non-tracking teleports. Also his counter super. Plus he'll be a better battery than Vergil, not to mention a true level 3 instead of a technical level 4.

On the subject of Dante, people really need to realize that nerfing his combo potential is not 'killing' him as a character. He's got everything and the kitchen sink, so regardless of whether or not he can combo you for an entire two minutes doesn't mean he's suddenly mid-tier. Hell, I can't understand how some people think even NOW he's just high-tier. If not for Phoenix and Wolverine, he'd definitely be getting a LOT more use by now. His Hammer is stupider than Berserker Slash, imho - I've gotten Wolverine/Akuma double kills because of a well placed Hammer as they try to cross me up on the way in. It's dumb.

USD said:
NerdJosh at ZP, playing with the Option-Select guys? Let's go.

http://www.twitch.tv/optionselect

Just got exposed hard.
Click to expand...
*Insert joke about NerdJosh being free here*
 
K

Karsticles

Member
True. Wesker will more than likely be the one to be overshadowed, but I can't reall see Vergil replacing him on a competitive level. Casual level, definitely, but not competitive. One of Wesker's most useful attributes is his non-tracking teleports. Also his counter super. Plus he'll be a better battery than Vergil, not to mention a true level 3 instead of a technical level 4.
Click to expand...
Wesker won't be overshadowed because:
1) Samurai Edge is still amazing on point and as an assist.
2) He still does huge damage with no meter.
3) Teleporter.

On the subject of Dante, people really need to realize that nerfing his combo potential is not 'killing' him as a character. He's got everything and the kitchen sink, so regardless of whether or not he can combo you for an entire two minutes doesn't mean he's suddenly mid-tier. Hell, I can't understand how some people think even NOW he's just high-tier. If not for Phoenix and Wolverine, he'd definitely be getting a LOT more use by now. His Hammer is stupider than Berserker Slash, imho - I've gotten Wolverine/Akuma double kills because of a well placed Hammer as they try to cross me up on the way in. It's dumb.
Click to expand...
Hammer is dumb. I think people are less irritated by Dante because there are very few truly good Dantes that kick our butts around.
 
F

Frantic

Member
Karsticles said:
Hammer is dumb. I think people are less irritated by Dante because there are very few truly good Dantes that kick our butts around.
Click to expand...
I know what you mean. I've only encountered probably three really good Dante's online. One was a Magneto/Dante/Sentinel combo that was just frustrating to face off against. I hate Magneto/Dante with Sentinel Force. Another was Dante/Haggar/Sentinel who didn't even really use those two to kick my ass. The last was Dante/Iron-Man/Trish, who was honestly the best player I ever encountered on X-Box live and he got a perfect on me. I've encountered a LOT of Dante's online, but most of them aren't really that good.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Vergil has some things that Dante does not. An instant cross up move for example. Imagine if you can hit confirm it with Devil Trigger. :O

I don't deny that Dante has a vast number of tools. Vergil still has yet to have an invincible move nearly as good as Hammer.

And Vergil is clearly more built for lockdown. Summoned Swords + Round Trip + JC + Teleport mix ups that's going to be his staple play.

What? How do those characters relate to AE?
Click to expand...
The "twins" + Fei Long like character.
 
C

Caj814

Member
New Niitsuma post
Ryota_Niitsuma 新妻 良太＠CAPCOM
UMVC3 VITA版80分待ちです!!盛り上がってよかった…。あと14時40分からビジネスデーステージです。早くも疲労が(笑)。

Anyone able to translate?
 
Q

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
Dahbomb said:
Vergil is the best character in UMVC3.

COME AT ME MARVEL GAF!
Click to expand...
He's not, he's actually pretty far from it. But I rather not get into details he's strong as fuck though gonna be chill'n at the top of A tier with strange
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Caj814 said:
New Niitsuma post
Ryota_Niitsuma 新妻 良太＠CAPCOM
UMVC3 VITA版80分待ちです!!盛り上がってよかった…。あと14時40分からビジネスデーステージです。早くも疲労が(笑)。

Anyone able to translate?
Click to expand...
80-minute version is pending UMVC3 VITA!! Was good ... excited. Business Day is 14 hours 40 minutes later stage. Fatigue as early (laughs).

WAT WAT WAT
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Alternate translation:
It is the UMVC3 VITA edition 80 minute waiting!! It was possible to rise…. Rear 14:40 business day it is stage from. Already fatigue (laughing).

Probably means the Vita version of UMvC3 has an 80 minute waiting line. The stage bit, I have no idea. 14:20 is the time the UMvC3 segment is supposed to start in local time though.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Just got back from my time machine from EVO2K12:


*Hsien Ko is still ass, no one plays as her.

*Tron and Haggar are no where to be seen. Floe declares Haggar worst character in the game. Arthur is shit too.

*Rocket Raccoon is the new Ammy. Annoying as fuck, huge damage, lots of tools and hit box god.

*Phoenix Wright is a joke character, his gimmick sucks and no one has been able to use it properly in a match. Frank West on the other hand is serious business.

*Iron Man has superior technology... Nova is solid with a great beam assist. Magneto is still mag-fucking-neto. Epic debates ensue over the three characters.

*Doom, Dormammu and Trish are much more common now along with Zero and Viper. Less Weskers, Phoenix and Wolverine but still quite prominent. Sentinel and Akuma still primarily used for assists.

*Clockw0rk running true top tier team of Strider/Vergil/Doom. Clockw0rk has developed pseudo MVC2 lockdown with SS and Hidden Missiles. Makes it to grand finals at EVO but loses to JWong.

*Combofiend still using same team and still raping with them. Has developed new technology with that team.

*Marlinepie still can't block but has developed new technology with Viper and Magneto. Replaced Amaterasu with a new character that he constantly changes.

*Justin Wong declares Vergil best character in the game. Makes new team BFF with Vergil and Firebrand. Has a changing opening character that builds meter for the team. Wins EVO2K12 and reclaims his MAHVEL crown.

*Scrubs complain that new characters are OP. DMC teams running rampant, Ghost Rider and Hawkeye bringing the salt. Zoning style dominating mid to low level play but at high level play it's mostly even but characters who can do both are dominating.

*Mike Ross replaces Storm with Nemesis to play team Hulk/Nemesis/Sentinel. He still sucks at the game but Hulk's st.H rules.

*Viscant uses a brand new team of Wesker/Nova/Strange. Insane reset/mix up game with some really good assists to back up Wesker play. Gets eliminated in top 8 though.

*Filipino Champ replaces Phoenix with Ghost Rider. Best Ghost Rider player there is.

*Noel Brown has Vergil or other DMC characters on his team because that's what the bandwagoners are doing.

*FlashMetroid still using Iron Man and owning with him. Replaced Tron with Viper and put her on point so new team is Viper/Dante/Iron Man. Declared most stylish team there is.

*Online net play is still ass. Modes suck and Capcom announces new DLC characters for UMVC3. 3rd edition on the way with more modes. Game is still the HYPEST game ever made.

*Richard Nguyen is the best user of team DMC on the planet. Takes Vergil to a whole new stylish level.

*Marn makes epic non-X factor comeback at EVO with Zero. Crowd goes ballistic.

*Tokido has the LAMEST team possible in the game. Ghost Rider + Hawkeye + Strange.
 
T

Tobe

Member
Dahbomb said:
Just got back from my time machine from EVO2K12:

*Hsien Ko is still ass, no one plays as her besides solar.
Click to expand...

GODDAMMIT SAY NO MORE! :lol lets save this for evo2k12. HYPE HYPE HYPE!
 
F

Frantic

Member
Dahbomb said:
*Future*
Click to expand...

E4Qus.png


I think that's the only legitimate response to that craziness.
 
S

smurfx

get some go again
btw i can't see viscant being in the top 8 next year without phoenix being so damn broken like she is in mvc3. i wonder if combofiend will end up dropping any of his regulars for some other character. if he does drop one its either going to be she hulk or taskmaster. best guest would be taskmaster as he's not as important to his team as she hulk and spencer are.
 
F

Frantic

Member
smurfx said:
btw i can't see viscant being in the top 8 next year without phoenix being so damn broken like she is in mvc3.
Click to expand...
It's true that Viscant might not make top 8 next year, but I think it's definitely possible that he could make it. He's a very smart and very skilled player, and the only times it really came down to Phoenix were with the other top players who were considered contenders for the win. Most of the time it was Wesker putting in the work, and sometimes it was just normal Phoenix on her own ending the matches. I think if he changed his team to two good point characters and a good assist, he'd do just as well if not better than with Phoenix. Phoenix, against a skilled player, is a high stakes gamble. It either pays off or it doesn't.

But, we'll see. I'm hyped for next year's EVO, for sure. While this EVO was hype, I was kind of disappointed certain players didn't meet up with one another. I'd really like to see some matches like Viscant vs Tokido, a rematch between Chris G and Justin Wong, ChrisG vs Combofiend... maybe in Ultimate...

smurfx said:
i wonder if combofiend will end up dropping any of his regulars for some other character. if he does drop one its either going to be she hulk or taskmaster. best guest would be taskmaster as he's not as important to his team as she hulk and spencer are.
Click to expand...
Taskmaster would definitely be the one he'd drop. I could also sorta see him dropping She-Hulk, but I can't see him ever dropping Spencer. Combofiend IS Spencer. :p
I picked up Spencer because of Combofiend, so I would be sad if he dropped him.
 
S

SolarPowered

Member
Just saw the WNF archive and damn LL.ND was looking so fucking good it was scary. That Chris corner lockdown was ridiculous and I saw new Lei Lei mixups for the first time in months.

His biggest mistakes in my opinion were the raw tags after gold that got his Ammy and Chris killed several times. It really adds weight to the argument I've made about Rimoukon practically being a level 2 hyper 90% of the time in Mahvel. He also plays Ammy+Gold differently than I do. I mostly stick with the Glaive or do weapon changes using Gold pendulum. Love seeing some variation in the approach though.

He probably would've beaten Killer Kai had he gotten Ammy out there against Wesker earlier. Oh and LOL at Akuma's overhead not working on Ammy!
Ultimoo said:
and smurfx will still think he's the best player on gaf. ;)
Click to expand...
Maybe on XblGAF, but me and him need to have a little talk anyways sooooo.
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
smurfx said:
btw i can't see viscant being in the top 8 next year without phoenix being so damn broken like she is in mvc3. i wonder if combofiend will end up dropping any of his regulars for some other character. if he does drop one its either going to be she hulk or taskmaster. best guest would be taskmaster as he's not as important to his team as she hulk and spencer are.
Click to expand...

Not even just Phoenix. Wesker and Haggar are nerfed too lol...

But I can see him bouncing back with other characters. He's a genius at this game. And the way he plays Wesker (not letting you touch him, ridiculous mixups, OCV) will still translate well into UMVC3.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Viscant plays more than just those characters. He only pulled out Haggar at the last moment before EVO to counter the Wolverine armies. He is going to go knee deep into Marvel tech with UMVC3 and figure out what's the cheapest stuff in that game and will make a team out of it. Don't doubt his genius.

I don't see why Combofiend would drop any of his characters from his main team. He would definitely have a secondary team to try out new characters and stuff but all of his characters are super solid in UMVC3 so no real reason to switch.
 
G

GuardianE

Santa May Claus
smurfx said:
btw i can't see viscant being in the top 8 next year without phoenix being so damn broken like she is in mvc3. i wonder if combofiend will end up dropping any of his regulars for some other character. if he does drop one its either going to be she hulk or taskmaster. best guest would be taskmaster as he's not as important to his team as she hulk and spencer are.
Click to expand...

I could see him potentially dropping Taskmaster of the three. He was using an experimental team at WNF using Haggar instead of Tasky. Thing is, though, Taskmaster is even stronger in UMvC3, so I'm not sure there's really any reason to switch.
 
K

Kimosabae

Banned
I have a gut feeling Viscant won't even be relevant next year during Ultimate. He got the strategical jump on everyone and won when he needed to. Execution will actually matter next year with everyone getting better and Phoenix Insurance potentially leaving the market. I think Viscant's going to have it rough.
 
Q

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
Kimosabae said:
I have a gut feeling Viscant won't even be relevant next year during Ultimate. He got the strategical jump on everyone and won when he needed to. Execution will actually matter next year with everyone getting better and Phoenix Insurance potentially leaving the market. I think Viscant's going to have it rough.
Click to expand...
Poor viscant no more mashing L for the win :(
 
Q

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
No all phoenix players mash L, that's literally how you play her, look closer at the matches :)

It's pretty much what makes her OP. =.=

He won a ton of his evo matches abusing just that. The reason it works is cause the huge stream of projectiles gives her pretty much a shield from attacks, btw when I say MASH I don't mean he's just doing shit when ever. I'm just making fun of how stupid her standing and crouching L's are.
 
S

smurfx

get some go again
lol just had the greatest win on ranked. it basically came down to this persons spencer and zero vs my haggar. well i managed to kill off zero and then had to fight his spencer who had a little under half life left. well i wasn't going to rush him down since he still had x factor and any mistake i made was certain death so i just stood in the corner and waited for him to make his move. we stared at each other a bit and he then taunted so i thought i should maybe walk forward in case this guy does this again. i crouched at the perfect distance and we stared at each other again and sure enough this idiot decides to taunt again and then i used hoodlum launcher and that was it for spencer. of course i had to use haggars taunt as i stood over spencers lifeless body. ;)
 
S

smurfx

get some go again
viscant will have to work way harder now that phoenix isn't the broken piece of shit she is now. people have to change their strategies when fighting him thanks to her. he may change characters i but highly doubt any of the new characters is such a game changer like phoenix is in mvc3. shit i have these two giant blisters on my two thumbs and they hurt! looks like i won't be playing effectively for about a week. :(
 
S

SolarPowered

Member
I don't know when it got trendy to say that Viscant is meh without Phoenix. Sure, he probably wouldn't be amazing without her, but I'd say that goes for any high level player if you take away their marquee character.

Viscant will surely bounce back with the best of them. UMvC3 is also looking like the less combo oriented game and that should be right up his alley.
 
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